Win7 support:

In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
[]
So now I've got this .iso, if I want to establish my "digital
entitlement" to put 10 on here, I use the .iso to make a DVD, then:
0. Macrium-image my 7 (C: and hidden) and backup my D:.
1. Boot the PC from the DVD. (It's a laptop with external [USB] DVD
drive - is that likely to upset the multiple restarts?)
2. Choose "upgrade" (to keep all my software and settings, at least
those it would let me), and "offline account", at appropriate points.
3. Check it's "Activated". (Under Control Panel | System?)
4. (Optional) Macrium-image the 10 (might as well, as presumably
restoring from it would be quicker/less bother [restarts etc.] if I
ever did decide to go for 10, than using the DVD).
5. Restore 7 from the image made in 0. (Or the option built-in to the
10 version, but I've read that's less reliable. Besides, restoring
from image is almost certainly quicker.)
Is that right?
[]
The MCtool is showing me two clickable options (as well as the
Finish button), under the heading "Burn the ISO file to a DVD": the
(full, i. e. with path) filename itself, and "Open DVD burner".
Presumably I can just click Finish, and use ImgBurn or anything else,
or should I click on "Open"?

You can just click finish, then use Imgburn upper-left button
to make a bootable media.

Thanks. I've just clicked Finish for now. I suppose there _might_ be a
later release than 1903 before January (that'll still fit on a single
layer DVD), so I'll give it a _bit_ longer before making one.
[]
The considered opinion over on MDL (hacker heaven for install media),
is "an intern made the 7601.24214 release". Didn't do a good job.
Didn't clean up properly. Burned up re-arms while preparing
the media. Like, say, an IT person in a mom and pop computer
store might do it. The telemetry updates the MDL boys don't
like are in there. Someone made a list of the Windows Updates
included past SP1, so that's part of the reason the media
is larger.

Ah, so it _is_ later than SP1, though including some unwanted updates.

The only question I'd have, is why the hell is that media
available without presenting a license key for download.
Especially when it isn't all that "good" as these
techniques go. TO waste bandwidth on downloads, that
individual must have got permission from the highest
levels in the company, to do that.

One person on MDL, has a technique for removing the
telemetry package (CEIP), so that individual at least,
could use the "intern disc" if he wanted.

For anyone else, a regular TechBench or MSDN download
version of W7SP1 is more than sufficient.

That's the 2.5G one you and I (albeit with different SHA-1) have?

*******

For Digital Entitlement, there are two ways.

1) Clean install.
Boot Win10 DVD.
Enter Win7 license key.
Which I'd get from Belarc or similar?
Install OS. Using Custom option, you can define
a partition size.
Would that make a new partition? Overwriting C:?

2) The other way, is to do a Repair/Upgrade install.
Boot Windows 7
Make a Macrium backup.
I'd do that even if doing your 1) above (-:!
Insert the DVD while Windows 7 is still running (backup finished).
Run Setup.exe off the DVD.
It will install WIn10-over-Win7.
Presumably _not_ asking for the key, getting it instead from the
installed 7?

(2) has the advantage that if you're immediately going to be
using Windows 10, (2) does all the stuff you'd want it to do.

Such as keep the prog.s it thinks can be kept? If it'll do that, even if
I don't intend to start using 10 immediately, I'd feel inclined to do it
that way, and Macrium image it (the working and authorised 10 I mean),
on the basis that using that image'd be quicker when I eventually decide
to go 10. Doing 2) presumably wouldn't mean I couldn't do 2) again
subsequently if I decided I'd made enough changes to 7 in the meantime
that I didn't want to use the 10 image I'd saved the first time.

(1) has the advantage, that if you use a spare hard
drive, you can just unplug it and put the Win7 disk drive
back later, as if nothing had happened.

Ah, unlike some, I don't have spare drives hanging around. Hence doing
the image of 7 whichever method of getting "entitlement" I'm going todo.

Paul


Paul

My other question: under what circumstances would I actually use the W7
DVD earlier obtained (then all updates, and software installs), rather
than just doing a restore from Macrium image?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind. - Mahatma Gandhi
(according to the film Gandhi [1982])

On Wednesday, August 14, 2019 at 3:57:27 PM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
On Wednesday, August 14, 2019 at 12:58:13 PM UTC-7, Robert in CA wrote:
Success!

https://postimg.cc/BLL5yqDt
Robert


Now see, that's huge.

I hope that installs OK.

Paul


All important and optional updates have been
loaded with the excepotion of one important
update that will not load. I've tried three
times now.

Also this is what I see when I open the Action
Center. Obviously the anti-virus will disappear
with Avast and the rest of my anti-virus programs
but what should I do about the backups?

https://postimg.cc/WhVJPy41

https://postimg.cc/qNbtyMxN


I believe we ignored this option previously in
favor of the externals HD's.

Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
On Wednesday, August 14, 2019 at 3:57:27 PM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
On Wednesday, August 14, 2019 at 12:58:13 PM UTC-7, Robert in CA wrote:
Success!

https://postimg.cc/BLL5yqDt
Robert
Now see, that's huge.

I hope that installs OK.

Paul


All important and optional updates have been
loaded with the excepotion of one important
update that will not load. I've tried three
times now.

Also this is what I see when I open the Action
Center. Obviously the anti-virus will disappear
with Avast and the rest of my anti-virus programs
but what should I do about the backups?

https://postimg.cc/WhVJPy41

https://postimg.cc/qNbtyMxN


I believe we ignored this option previously in
favor of the externals HD's.

Robert

For backups, you were using Macrium. And prepared
(presumably) some favored source partitions and destination
device for their storage. The external enclosure holding
your "backups" drive, is an example of a destination, especially
as that doesn't involve "ticking any SATA ports" at BIOS level :-)

The Windows Update item that won't install is this one,
which just came out two days ago. Tuesday was Patch Tuesday.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/...date-kb4512506

It mentions SHA2 signing.

Check your update history if you can, for KB4474419. Look in Windows Update,
see if there is a History tab, see if KB4474419 is installed.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/...support-update

If 4512506 tried to install for a while (it really did put files into C:
but failed to work), then it probably wasn't a signing failure. A signing
failure should stop the update early on.

You can also manually attempt to install the update in question.
(This assumes KB4474419 is installed and all.)

https://www.catalog.update.microsoft...or%20x64-based

Download the non-embedded entry, using the Download button on the right.

You will get a file with an extension of .msu on the end.
Double-click that file, and that Windows Update item will make
an attempt to install. If there is a "block" on it (some condition
on your machine won't allow it), it will say "this update is
not for your machine" or similar words. Unfortunately, Microsoft
is not very good at writing error messages, and such an error
message could be a million things when it happens. And the
user is expected to "guess" why that might be.

*******

For your Free Avast, did you have a copy of Free Avast
on your previous Windows 7 install, say, sitting in
the Downloads folder ?

Maybe you could just use that file to reinstall Avast on
the current setup.

Your Macrium Backup file, the one you could not get to work,
still exists, and it can be "mounted" by Macrium.

First, look on the 8500, for any "sets" of Macrium Installer
files. There will be a ZIP file with the WADK kit in it,
as well as the installer file. Take these or similar files
over to the 780, and re-install Macrium.

https://i.postimg.cc/CxzpzDtw/macrium-files.gif

Then, look on the backup drive, for the last 780 backup.
And try to do this by right-clicking the .mrimg file
(after Macrium is reinstalled of course).

https://i.postimg.cc/bN6RNV4F/get-fi...rium-image.gif

Using that method, maybe you can find your Avast installer file.

Even search will work on the temporary file. If you have
Agent Ransack installed, you can search T: for "Avast".

The last sample I have here is:

avast_free_antivirus_setup_offline.exe 353,085,976 bytes July 08, 2019

*******

You can try here, but no guarantees. That looks approximately the right size.

https://www.avast.com/en-us/download...T&locale=en-us

Paul

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:


My other question: under what circumstances would I actually use the W7
DVD earlier obtained (then all updates, and software installs), rather
than just doing a restore from Macrium image?

Say your pool of MRIMG files is infected with ransomware.

Say you're completely wiped out by those clever *******s.

That's when you'll be doing a clean install.

A guy in one of my other groups had to do that.
Start *all over again*, from the ground up.
Took *months*.

That's when you need that DVD.

I have sufficient DVDs in my "hologram box" to
bootstrap myself, but not everything needed to finish
is there. I have stacks of other burned DVDs for that :-)
Like, all the Win10 would be burned ones, not pressed ones.

Paul

In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

My other question: under what circumstances would I actually use the
W7 DVD earlier obtained (then all updates, and software installs),
rather than just doing a restore from Macrium image?

Say your pool of MRIMG files is infected with ransomware.

Right. Gotcha.

Say you're completely wiped out by those clever *******s.

The drive containing my .mrimg files only gets connected to the PC when
I'm creating a .mrimg file, or restoring one (in both cases with the PC
booted from the Macrium CD), so it's _unlikely_ to get infected - but
you never know! If they can get in to interrupt a boot-from-CD ...

That's when you'll be doing a clean install.

Guess I'd better make that 7 CD sooner rather than later (-:

A guy in one of my other groups had to do that.
Start *all over again*, from the ground up.
Took *months*.

Would me.

That's when you need that DVD.

I have sufficient DVDs in my "hologram box" to
bootstrap myself

[Isn't self-bootstrapping illegal in some bible-bashing states (-:?]

, but not everything needed to finish
is there. I have stacks of other burned DVDs for that :-)
Like, all the Win10 would be burned ones, not pressed ones.

(I actually do have pressed W7HP discs, but the box they are in is
marked Upgrade from Vista, so probably useless.)

Paul
John
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

It's quickly getting to a place where privacy will be cause for suspicion.
- Mayayana in alt.windows7.general, 2018-11-6.

Perhaps you can just tell me which download
button to click on Avast. I selected free
download and then it takes me to a second
page where there are several options but
which one do I pick? I think it's the blue
download button (4th pic)

https://postimg.cc/PvrPfLgm

https://postimg.cc/KkcZB60b

https://postimg.cc/PPvdWzQC

https://postimg.cc/75yrgvLR

https://postimg.cc/0bDL5tC0

https://postimg.cc/FkcnRR0H

I found the KB4474419

https://postimg.cc/fkvQNqTn

I'm not understanding how to get to the
screen to manually update. Here's the (1)
important update and (1) optional update
that won't load and asked for my Admin
password.

https://postimg.cc/BXgSmQ1F

https://postimg.cc/xXN0nG4v

Robert

Why did all 177 updates and 5 of 6
optional download and not these last
two?

It occurs to me that once I have all
the Anti-virus etc. downloaded and
the 780 set up we should create a
rescue disc since I don't have one.

I'll keep adding bookmarks and install
Word, Excel and my Dell imaging system.

I put the back HD with Win 7 back in
the case with the PSU's we bought and
the backup HD for the 8500. I put the
HD with Win10 in the spare external HD
case.

Thoughts/suggestions?

Robert

The Windows Update item that won't install is this one,
which just came out two days ago. Tuesday was Patch Tuesday.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/...date-kb4512506

It mentions SHA2 signing.

Check your update history if you can, for KB4474419. Look in Windows Update,
see if there is a History tab, see if KB4474419 is installed.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/...support-update

If 4512506 tried to install for a while (it really did put files into C:
but failed to work), then it probably wasn't a signing failure. A signing
failure should stop the update early on.

You can also manually attempt to install the update in question.
(This assumes KB4474419 is installed and all.)

https://www.catalog.update.microsoft...or%20x64-based

Download the non-embedded entry, using the Download button on the right.

You will get a file with an extension of .msu on the end.
Double-click that file, and that Windows Update item will make
an attempt to install. If there is a "block" on it (some condition
on your machine won't allow it), it will say "this update is
not for your machine" or similar words. Unfortunately, Microsoft
is not very good at writing error messages, and such an error
message could be a million things when it happens. And the
user is expected to "guess" why that might be.

*******



I went back and saw that KB4474419 failed
so using your link I put those numbers in
and it came up with (4) updates, two embedded
and two that weren't. The so I double clicked it
and it installed. It was only afterwards I realized
I did this on the 8500!

Then went to the 780 and repeated the process but
it says the KB4474419 is installed. I then tried the
other KB4474419 update and it came back and said
The update is not applicable to your computer.

The first update is dated 8-12-19 and 52.9MB the
second update is dated 3-11-19 and 52.1MB. So
its saying the second was out of date. If I had done
it first and the other second then they both would of
worked. I guess it doesn't matter.

Also while I don't have speakers attached I still have
the small internal speaker but it isn't working. I tried
playing with the controls but maybe I need instructions.

Robert

In message ,
Robert in CA writes:
[]
Also while I don't have speakers attached I still have
the small internal speaker but it isn't working. I tried
playing with the controls but maybe I need instructions.
[]
The internal speaker isn't usable as an output from sound channels
(playing mp3, sound for YouTube, etcetera); you'll have to connect
external speakers (or headphones) for that. (And these days you'll
probably need powered speakers, i. e. ones with a mains plug [or
batteries] - modern sound circuitry doesn't have enough oomph to drive
unpowered speakers.)

The internal speaker will sound beeps from the BIOS - usually a beep or
two at power-up, and others when there is a fault (such as overheating).
Those are the only time you'll hear anything from it.

That's for a normal, generic, PC; _some_ PCs _do_ have the ability to
play system sounds through an internal speaker (different from the beeps
one). If yours used to do that, then it is such a machine. I can see
some discussion of it at
https://www.dell.com/community/Deskt...river-for-Inte
rnal-speaker-in-OptiPlex-780/td-p/5148453 (https://dell.to/2OWK58g for
short), but I can't follow it.

If it's the normal generic PC speaker, I vaguely remember someone did
concoct a driver for it - the quality was terrible, as it's driven by a
digital output - I think back in the days of Windows 3.1! I very much
doubt it survived into modern Windows, since external speakers are so
common now.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

A biochemist walks into a student bar and says to the barman: "I'd like a pint
of adenosine triphosphate, please." "Certainly," says the barman, "that'll be
ATP." (Quoted in) The Independent, 2013-7-13

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

(I actually do have pressed W7HP discs, but the box they are in is
marked Upgrade from Vista, so probably useless.)

There's always the Intern Discs :-)

The 32-bit one might be small enough for a single layer DVD.

And you want to make sure you have the right version,
since the Intern Disc only contains one SKU of OS.
If you need a Professional, download a Professional.

Heidoc only lists the three versions:

Home Premium
Professional
Ultimate

and is missing Starter and Home Basic discs.

And who knows whether there are language versions and
that part is correct.

Paul

I've download and installed SuperAntispyware,
malwarebytes, and Spywareblaster so I have
some protection but I really need Avast.

I also installed my Dell Imaging software which
came with the 8200 and like it allot. I have it
on the 8500 as well. Unfortunately I could not
install Word and Excel which also came with the
8200 because it wouldn't accept the product key
but it did before so apparently when we re-installed
Win 7 it did something. I also have Word and Excel
on the 8500.

Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
Perhaps you can just tell me which download
button to click on Avast. I selected free
download and then it takes me to a second
page where there are several options but
which one do I pick? I think it's the blue
download button (4th pic)

https://postimg.cc/PvrPfLgm

https://postimg.cc/KkcZB60b

https://postimg.cc/PPvdWzQC

https://postimg.cc/75yrgvLR

https://postimg.cc/0bDL5tC0

https://postimg.cc/FkcnRR0H

I provided this link in my previous message.
That's 300+ MB.

https://www.avast.com/en-us/download...T&locale=en-us

If you look on this page...

https://www.getavast.net/downloads/offline-installers

it is the item:

Avast Free Antivirus 2019 (336 MB)

in blue text.


I found the KB4474419

https://postimg.cc/fkvQNqTn

There is a KB4474419 entry with a Success next to it.

*******

The KB3060716 has failed to install. And everything
after that is failing.

The only reference I can find to KB3060716 is this.

https://www.sevenforums.com/windows-...kb3071756.html

"One update was KB2922229 and the other was KB2984976.

I believe the updates KB3071756 and KB3060716 replaced the others
from an earlier time including last month. I uninstalled both
KB2922229 and KB2984976, rebooted and checked for updates again.
It said the same two updates were available, KB3071756 and KB3060716.
I went ahead with the installation and they installed successfully.
"


I'm not understanding how to get to the
screen to manually update. Here's the (1)
important update and (1) optional update
that won't load and asked for my Admin
password.

https://postimg.cc/BXgSmQ1F

https://postimg.cc/xXN0nG4v

For the first picture there, you'll need to rearrange the columns
a bit so the KB shows through. It sure looks like KB4474419 again.

The second item, the 11KB update from Intel, is just to paper over
the Management Engine driver entry in Device Manager. Intel themselves,
like to present a 50MB file to do the same thing.

You probably cannot install those, until the "log jam" in
Windows Update is removed. As near as I can tell, KB3060716
is the holdup right now.

The "manual update" screen, is the catalog.update.microsoft.com
website and the Downloads it offers. Normally I would be councilling
on the usage of such, but you've got at least one broken update
right now that seems to be jamming up the gears. The items in
Windows Update right now, don't particularly seem to correspond
to the jam up. Which is weird.

The only help I have to offer, is the information presented
in the "sevenforums" thread. To remove KB2922229 and KB2984976.

Paul

Robert in CA wrote:
Why did all 177 updates and 5 of 6
optional download and not these last
two?

It occurs to me that once I have all
the Anti-virus etc. downloaded and
the 780 set up we should create a
rescue disc since I don't have one.

I'll keep adding bookmarks and install
Word, Excel and my Dell imaging system.

I put the back HD with Win 7 back in
the case with the PSU's we bought and
the backup HD for the 8500. I put the
HD with Win10 in the spare external HD
case.

Thoughts/suggestions?

Robert

Windows Update is supposed to work out the
supersedence of the updates, figure out which
updates no longer apply, and so on. It doesn't
seem to be working worth a darn. Notice ?

Some updates install twice, the second install
seemingly a mechanism to update the status somewhere.
The second install of some of these updates, doesn't
take as long as the first.

Updates have "revision numbers", and it is possible
for an update to install many many times, based on
its revision number changing.

But in general, the mess on your machine doesn't
make a lot of sense. It tried to do a few older
updates by the look of it.

Are we going to be able to wiggle out of this mess ?

Dunno.

Because in the Sevenforums article, someone copied and
pasted some text stating that two updates need to be
removed, that tells me that attempting to jam in 3060716
manually, isn't going to work. It's not that kind of
logjam.

Paul

Robert in CA wrote:
I've download and installed SuperAntispyware,
malwarebytes, and Spywareblaster so I have
some protection but I really need Avast.

I also installed my Dell Imaging software which
came with the 8200 and like it allot. I have it
on the 8500 as well. Unfortunately I could not
install Word and Excel which also came with the
8200 because it wouldn't accept the product key
but it did before so apparently when we re-installed
Win 7 it did something. I also have Word and Excel
on the 8500.

Robert

The OS on the 780 is not a Dell Windows 7.
It's possibly a Retail DVD install using
a Refurbisher Key.

You would think the BIOS SLIC table would still
be present on the 780, and if the Dell Word and Dell
Excel used that for authentication, that would still work.
But if it uses a Product Key, who knows what controls it.

Whether the OS version has anything to do with your
bundled version of Word and Excel, I don't know.

If you have it on the 8500, you're covered at least.
You have something to work with. For now.

Paul

I provided this link in my previous message.
That's 300+ MB.

https://www.avast.com/en-us/download...T&locale=en-us

If you look on this page...

https://www.getavast.net/downloads/offline-installers

it is the item:

Avast Free Antivirus 2019 (336 MB)

in blue text.


I found the KB4474419

https://postimg.cc/fkvQNqTn

There is a KB4474419 entry with a Success next to it.

*******

The KB3060716 has failed to install. And everything
after that is failing.

The only reference I can find to KB3060716 is this.

https://www.sevenforums.com/windows-...kb3071756.html

"One update was KB2922229 and the other was KB2984976.

I believe the updates KB3071756 and KB3060716 replaced the others
from an earlier time including last month. I uninstalled both
KB2922229 and KB2984976, rebooted and checked for updates again.
It said the same two updates were available, KB3071756 and KB3060716.
I went ahead with the installation and they installed successfully.
"



I'm typing this on the 780!

I'm sorry, I must have missed
the Avast link. It's now installed.

I also missed the KB4474419 success.
I guess I couldn't see the forest for
the trees.

I'm not understanding how to uninstall
the KB2922229 and KB2984976. I located
the KB2922229 file but it found allot
so am thinking I'm not doing this right.

https://postimg.cc/7fW7C1Ms

https://postimg.cc/HJ4VtbXC

As far as Word and Excel it did ask for
the product key but didn't accept it
where before it had. I'll just use notebook.
As you say, I still have Word and Excel
on the 8500.

Robert