Win7 support:

I installed all the programs including Macrium.

https://postimg.cc/rRT73Qdn

https://postimg.cc/LYgH2C8m

Looks like everything is done and the 780 is
back and running fine.

In passing, I noticed that in Windows Boot
Manager the 780 use to take 10 seconds before
booting but after we recovered Win 7 it reverted
to 30 seconds which is what the 8500 is. That
was my first indication that we had succeeded.

I still have to create the Rescue CD later today.

Many thanks for all your good help and
explaining things. I really appreciate it.

Robert

I created a Rescue CD (I hope).

https://postimg.cc/CndZK6rB

https://postimg.cc/BLjsP9s0

Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
I created a Rescue CD (I hope).

https://postimg.cc/CndZK6rB

https://postimg.cc/BLjsP9s0

Robert

Why does this say Windows PE 3.1 ?

https://postimg.cc/CndZK6rB

I hope that boots OK as a CD.

*******

Back in Macrium 5 version, the PE versions offered were
4.0 and 3.0.

http://reflect.macrium.com/help/v5/O...dia_Wizard.htm

I'm not sure I understand what that 3.1 means.

The "Version" and "PEVersion" files on the CD can be opened
in Wordpad or similar, to verify the version information.

https://postimg.cc/BLjsP9s0

The Version should say "7.2...." at a rough guess,
and I thought the possible PE versions were
4.0, 5.0, 10.0 and so on. If it used the WinRE
and didn't download a WADK kit, then the PE version
on that, I haven't a clue what the value would say.

Things I would check, would be booting, whether it
handles USB3 (but there is no USB3 on the 780),
and whether you can use File Sharing to get an
MRIMG file from another computer on your home LAN.
That's mostly what I check for.

Paul

Things I would check, would be booting, whether it
handles USB3 (but there is no USB3 on the 780),
and whether you can use File Sharing to get an
MRIMG file from another computer on your home LAN.
That's mostly what I check for.

Paul



I don't know why it says 3.1 I was just
winging it and clicked what I thought
was correct. I've only done this once
or twice before and its hard to remember
with all the other stuff we've done.

I created a Mrimg for the 780 since I
have no backups for the new OS so I
thought I better have a Mrimg made
to recover from just in case.

https://postimg.cc/0bJp4BvQ

I then inserted the Rescue CD which I
just made and you saw it complete but
it didn't load.

https://postimg.cc/CndZK6rB

https://postimg.cc/BLjsP9s0

What's going on ?

Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
Things I would check, would be booting, whether it
handles USB3 (but there is no USB3 on the 780),
and whether you can use File Sharing to get an
MRIMG file from another computer on your home LAN.
That's mostly what I check for.

Paul



I don't know why it says 3.1 I was just
winging it and clicked what I thought
was correct. I've only done this once
or twice before and its hard to remember
with all the other stuff we've done.

I created a Mrimg for the 780 since I
have no backups for the new OS so I
thought I better have a Mrimg made
to recover from just in case.

https://postimg.cc/0bJp4BvQ

I then inserted the Rescue CD which I
just made and you saw it complete but
it didn't load.

https://postimg.cc/CndZK6rB

https://postimg.cc/BLjsP9s0

What's going on ?

Robert

I wanted you to look at the "Version" and
"PEVersion" files as those are text files and
give release info.

The basic form of the files is correct. The disc
looks like a hybrid UEFI/MSDOS DVD. There are important
parts which are invisible, and those aren't as easy
to verify.

*******

In the WADK (the thing Macrium likes to download),
the following executable command is part of the kit.
(I don't think oscdimg.exe is part of regular Windows.)

oscdimg -m -o -u2 -udfver102
-bootdata:2#p0,e,bF:\WORK\boot\etfsboot.com#pEF,e,b F:\WORK\efi\Microsoft\boot\efisys.bin
F:\WORK F:\W190364.iso

The bootdata line contains "2" boot options. etfsboot.com is the legacy boot.
Efisys.bin is the UEFI boot option. The #p option seems to specify the
"type" of the file in question, so it gets stuffed in the appropriate
cubby hole. The F:\WORK is the folder with the desired ISO contents,
including the (now smaller) install.wim. The output is the last item on
the parameter list.

If you looked in the "Advanced" part of preparing a
Macrium CD, there are various versions of WinPE.
It's possible, if you started with an old enough
copy of Macrium, there is a version of WinPE which is
older than the menu items would show.

Each entry in the table has a description, telling you
what the various environments correspond to.

WinPE 10 = USB3 driver builtin, behaves like Win10 (juggling balls)
WinPE 5 = USB3 driver builtin, behaves like Win8.1
...
and so on

When you make a Macrium CD, you have to select the one
you want to be used as the basis of the CD build. if the
WinPE is not currently on the machine, it is downloaded
before the build can go forward.

Using "disktype.exe", you can dump some details about
the CD, but the problem with "disktype.exe" is there
is no native Windows port of the command. The one I
use is a Cygwin port. The command is also available
in Linux (not standard on the Linux CD, but must
be added from the package manager). Basically, all
of these options are a pain in the ass :-) It's the
usual "do these hundred steps, to get this tiny
stinking executable" exercise. I'd like you to have
a copy, but how ?

*******

One other thing.

Watch the screen when you boot from a DVD.

When it says

"Press any key to boot from CD"

you *must* press any key (space bar will do)
witbin 5 seconds, or, the boot will "fall through"
to the hard drive instead.

That could be the step you are missing.

Paul


Paul

It seems what your saying is that
I chose the wrong version and it's
missing the boot command.

Here the steps I took:

https://postimg.cc/f3ykrNwr

https://postimg.cc/dZP13ZGb

https://postimg.cc/xqM87g2n

https://postimg.cc/FfYsxVpt

https://postimg.cc/y3H1s4HB

https://postimg.cc/gxJYYHfw

https://postimg.cc/w1G93spw

https://postimg.cc/xq3J8gFg

https://postimg.cc/bZss6PYF

https://postimg.cc/YGw0qm6J

Robert

Here's the PEVersion:

https://postimg.cc/f3by3hpv

https://postimg.cc/vx5ZR8xG

https://postimg.cc/9r8FvkrR

and Version:

https://postimg.cc/ns7F9cTB

https://postimg.cc/rRyMHGTN

https://postimg.cc/0rZ8w4GW

Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
It seems what your saying is that
I chose the wrong version and it's
missing the boot command.

Here the steps I took:

https://postimg.cc/f3ykrNwr

https://postimg.cc/dZP13ZGb

https://postimg.cc/xqM87g2n

https://postimg.cc/FfYsxVpt

https://postimg.cc/y3H1s4HB

https://postimg.cc/gxJYYHfw

https://postimg.cc/w1G93spw

https://postimg.cc/xq3J8gFg

https://postimg.cc/bZss6PYF

https://postimg.cc/YGw0qm6J

Robert


I wouldn't say it was the "wrong" version as such.

If I use the scroll bar in 7.2.4325, I see there is
a WinPE 3.1 hiding down there. So the option does exist.
I just hadn't noticed it had a scroll bar now.

https://i.postimg.cc/pVGsxVwP/macriu...ia-choices.gif

The description even claims it's a "default" choice
for a Windows 7 hardware system, if the WinRE.wim file
is not being used by Macrium instead.

That is part of a WAIK kit, and at first my concern was
that perhaps it wasn't a complete UEFI implementation.
Your CD is decorated with UEFI files, and they should
be wired up appropriately if present on the disc.

I'm not convinced this has anything to do with
"not booting" though. I was just surprised to see
a mention of WinPE 3.1 after so many years have passed.

Have you seen a "Press any key to boot from CD" prompt
in the BIOS popup boot menu ? (Pressing F12)

I think that prompt appears if you select the optical
drive as a boot source, while using F12.

I'm not convinced the Dell BIOS is fully baked, which
means you have to "try everything" to get around the
limits. In this case, I think Popup Boot F12 is the
right choice, select the optical drive in that menu,
then *keep eyes peeled* near the bottom of the popup
boot menu, as the sentence about "Press any key..."
appears there. You have *five seconds* to hit the
space bar, or it'll vector off and use the hard
drive option instead. This is why it is failing to
boot, because you're not pressing the space bar
when instructed :-) Now, how many times have
I been distracted and missed pressing that...

You don't know the half of that thing. Sometimes
the timing is such, there can be as much as a
20 second delay before the prompt appears.
And I've already turned my back on the machine,
assuming I don't have to press the key. When
I turn around I realize "dammit!, missed again".

Paul

Have you seen a "Press any key to boot from CD" prompt
in the BIOS popup boot menu ? (Pressing F12)

I think that prompt appears if you select the optical
drive as a boot source, while using F12.

I'm not convinced the Dell BIOS is fully baked, which
means you have to "try everything" to get around the
limits. In this case, I think Popup Boot F12 is the
right choice, select the optical drive in that menu,
then *keep eyes peeled* near the bottom of the popup
boot menu, as the sentence about "Press any key..."
appears there. You have *five seconds* to hit the
space bar, or it'll vector off and use the hard
drive option instead. This is why it is failing to
boot, because you're not pressing the space bar
when instructed :-) Now, how many times have
I been distracted and missed pressing that...

You don't know the half of that thing. Sometimes
the timing is such, there can be as much as a
20 second delay before the prompt appears.
And I've already turned my back on the machine,
assuming I don't have to press the key. When
I turn around I realize "dammit!, missed again".

Paul

No, its failing because the message never appears.
As I said, I have looked for the message 'press any
key' to start the Rescue CD but none have appeared.


So you want me to change the boot sequence? and try
again? I don't mind but 'normally' I shouldn't have
to change to boot sequence for this to run, it should
automatically detect it just like when I put in a CD
or DVD and it detects it this should be no different.

I will give it a try and let you know.

Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
Have you seen a "Press any key to boot from CD" prompt
in the BIOS popup boot menu ? (Pressing F12)

I think that prompt appears if you select the optical
drive as a boot source, while using F12.

I'm not convinced the Dell BIOS is fully baked, which
means you have to "try everything" to get around the
limits. In this case, I think Popup Boot F12 is the
right choice, select the optical drive in that menu,
then *keep eyes peeled* near the bottom of the popup
boot menu, as the sentence about "Press any key..."
appears there. You have *five seconds* to hit the
space bar, or it'll vector off and use the hard
drive option instead. This is why it is failing to
boot, because you're not pressing the space bar
when instructed :-) Now, how many times have
I been distracted and missed pressing that...

You don't know the half of that thing. Sometimes
the timing is such, there can be as much as a
20 second delay before the prompt appears.
And I've already turned my back on the machine,
assuming I don't have to press the key. When
I turn around I realize "dammit!, missed again".

Paul

No, its failing because the message never appears.
As I said, I have looked for the message 'press any
key' to start the Rescue CD but none have appeared.


So you want me to change the boot sequence? and try
again? I don't mind but 'normally' I shouldn't have
to change to boot sequence for this to run, it should
automatically detect it just like when I put in a CD
or DVD and it detects it this should be no different.

I will give it a try and let you know.

Robert

But you did get the Windows 10 media to boot.

So you have had one success in the past.

You can exit from the Win10 media without changing
anything, and can use it for boot testing.

I want to make sure (somehow) that this is a media
issue, and not a general booting issue. There's
no point in making a pile of rubbish Macrium discs,
if the problem is the computer. We should be
repeating a test case that worked in the past,
to prove the computer can actually boot (at all)
from optical media.

My concern is, it's something about the BIOS.

Something is weird about that BIOS. Almost like...
it's an early EFI capable BIOS, with severe
NVRAM variable problems (early EFI BIOS were immature
and had some pretty bad bugs). That's what it smells like.
Yet there are no visible signs in the BIOS setup
screens, that the BIOS is designed that way. I
don't know what to make of it.

The other possibility, is there is a problem with
the optical drive. The optical drive has two lasers.
One laser is used to read CDs. The other laser is
used to read DVDs. If there is a "difference"
in booting between CDs and DVDs, you might blame
it on a laser problem.

You can test lasers and the like, by using Imgburn
while Windows 7 is booted on the 780, and "rip"
a representative CD and a representative DVD.
If Imgburn reports no problems, then that is
good evidence the drive is OK. If the drive
speeds up and slows down a lot (indicating
a read problem), it could be some kind of
drive-related issue.

I don't think I've ever had a drive completely
"flake out" on me. One of my current SATA opticals,
might have a weakness when writing the CMC media
I'm using now (not the best of media). And I've
certainly had the problem, where ancient IDE CD drives
cannot read CD-RW media, but that's expected
(happens to everyone). That's an ancient problem.
There's a difference between reading pressed media,
versus burned media, on the oldest of drives. The
burned media doesn't have quite as good optical properties.

Paul

Success!

https://postimg.cc/9wT4pPcF

https://postimg.cc/75qC3Tdw

https://postimg.cc/ykyx88d5

https://postimg.cc/p5tVPwtR

https://postimg.cc/nMvc3hvz

https://postimg.cc/wtCgkCML


I left the settings as is.

Could you please give a link to that
program which evaluates the HD and
then gives a trace.

Robert

I just got a Activate Windows pop-up
on the 780!? Isn't that weird? It happened
so fast I couldn't take a screenshot.


Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
Success!

https://postimg.cc/9wT4pPcF

https://postimg.cc/75qC3Tdw

https://postimg.cc/ykyx88d5

https://postimg.cc/p5tVPwtR

https://postimg.cc/nMvc3hvz

https://postimg.cc/wtCgkCML


I left the settings as is.

Could you please give a link to that
program which evaluates the HD and
then gives a trace.

Robert

I'm not sure I understand.

What kind of trace do you want ?

A file listing ?

Paul

Robert in CA wrote:
I just got a Activate Windows pop-up
on the 780!? Isn't that weird? It happened
so fast I couldn't take a screenshot.


Robert

Has it gone Not Genuine again ?

From an Administrator Command Prompt, try

slmgr /dlv

and it will say something about "activated"
or "grace period", where "grace period" needs
the license key to be entered so it can
activate.

The System control panel may also contain a string
indicating activation.

Paul

On Monday, August 19, 2019 at 10:17:46 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
Success!

https://postimg.cc/9wT4pPcF

https://postimg.cc/75qC3Tdw

https://postimg.cc/ykyx88d5

https://postimg.cc/p5tVPwtR

https://postimg.cc/nMvc3hvz

https://postimg.cc/wtCgkCML


I left the settings as is.

Could you please give a link to that
program which evaluates the HD and
then gives a trace.

Robert

I'm not sure I understand.

What kind of trace do you want ?

A file listing ?

Paul

I can't remember the program, but it does
a scan of the HD and then afterwards there's
a trace (an arc) with little dots that fill
in and shows spikes etc.

Robert