If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Rate Thread | Display Modes |
#46
|
|||
|
|||
MS Word 2010
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 18:50:52 -0500, silverslimer
wrote: On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 16:19:58 -0700, Ken Blake wrote: On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 15:52:55 -0500, silverslimer wrote: On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 12:30:27 -0700, Ken Blake wrote: On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 10:36:34 -0800, croy wrote: I'm using Word 2000, so this may not apply, but I started with Word for DOS. But with Word for Windows, it's always been the case that when working on a long, complex document, frequent saves are a must to prevent Word crashes. If I'm doing something truly esoteric, I save after each successful step! alt f s is your friend! Word 2000, Word for DOS, or any other version of Word, you should always do frequent saves. And that's true whether it's a long complex document or not. Saves do not prevent Word crashes. What they prevent is your being hurt by a problem of almost any type: Word crashes, Windows crashes, hardware failures, power failures, user errors, malware attacks, etc. And the same is true for any other word processor, not just Word. Even if it's not a word processor, but some other type of program, if you put work into a file, you should frequently save what you've done. To be fair, Word saves automatically by default every five minutes. That may depend on what version you use; I'm not sure. But yes, other word processors do too, such as WordPerfect, the word processor I use and greatly prefer to Word. And the length of time between saving may be adjustable. But my point remains, regardless of what program you use, even it's not a word processor you should be sure you get frequent saves, whether they are automatic or you have to do them manually. I have to admit that I'm a fan of WordPerfect as well. I got the X6 version from some OEM CD on eBay a few years back and found the word processor's interface to be ugly as sin but the actual software to be a lot more complete than Word. The only issue I had was the fact that it took ages to load. We're very different. I like WordPerfect's interface much better than Word's. I run X7, not X6, but there's hardly any difference between them. Out of curiosity, I just timed how long it took to load; it was 3.5 seconds, and that 's fine as far as I'm concerned. My wife runs X6, and I just timed loading on her machine. It was 6.5 seconds, a little slower (probably because mine loads from an SSD and hers from a HD), but still fine. I also started Word 2016 on my machine to compare its startup time with WordPerfect's; it was 5 seconds, a little slower than WordPerfect. |
Ads |
#47
|
|||
|
|||
MS Word 2010 May be solved...more info
On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 12:15:13 -0500, Wolf K
wrote: On 2019-01-17 11:05, nospam wrote: In article , Wolf K wrote: By default MS Word is set to NOT clear cache on closing and to store cache for 14 days! There is also an option to clear cache . I cleared cache, set the program to only hold for one day and to clear when closed. I also told my wife she can run the tool kit to clear cache anytime she wanted...and to do so periodically after large edits. She had no further problems yesterday* but I did not make this discovery until close to the end of her work day. Thanks for this. Fits what I think I know. IIRC, the cache by default is written to disk at regular intervals, so a large cache would invoke paging. Paging takes a long time. no. writing to disk can be done in the background and does not necessarily involve paging, which itself does not take a long time. You haven't experienced an under-resourced machine, then. Our first laptop had 1GB RAM. There was constant disk activity as paging was done "in the background." Anything that involved the disk (eg Saving a doc) was painfully slow. I maxed the RAM to 2GB, the difference was spectacular. I assume that you're referring to a machine running Vista or higher. 1GB was great before that. The issue involves how much idle time is available for background tasks. Sure, modern machines are very fast compared to older ones, but we have also come to expect much faster responses. OP indicated that the machine was responding too slowly. His reported solution suggests that caching and paging were somehow involved. A 14 day old cache could be several GB, so even 16GB of RAM might not have enough space to hold it without paging. Paging involves writing and reading back. Hence it's slower than simple writing to disk. In short, resetting the cache retention changed the amount of data to be held in RAM, hence reduced the need for paging, hence speeded up the machine's repsonse. The details would be of interest to someone who wants to make the process faster, but unfortunately they aren't available. Cache should automatically be emptied the moment _any_ program is closed. I can't imagine what the benefit of leaving it there actually is. |
#48
|
|||
|
|||
MS Word 2010 May be solved...more info
philo wrote:
The 64 bit version is now installed but it think I found what the problem really was. I looked at the Office 2010 tool kit and checked the cache settings. By default MS Word is set to NOT clear cache on closing and to store cache for 14 days! There is also an option to clear cache . I cleared cache, set the program to only hold for one day and to clear when closed. I also told my wife she can run the tool kit to clear cache anytime she wanted...and to do so periodically after large edits. She had no further problems yesterday but I did not make this discovery until close to the end of her work day. This could be a OneDrive-style cache. If you're not storing the working documents in the cloud, do you even need a OneDrive cache ? The upload on my ADSL (not a VDSL) is pretty slow, and working with Cloud storage in the expected way would be out of the question. A Cloud Cache, keeping local copies, would be essential to high performance in such a case. But if I was keeping the only copy of the documents on the C: drive and didn't even have a Cloud account, that cache would likely not be needed. When you see a cache on something, ask yourself "what's it for" and "why do I need this". Many times the answers are obvious (we never question the usage of L1/L2/L3 on our CPU), but don't be tricked into caches that have no value. The System Write Cache on my computer, is ********, and is actually... dangerous. The System Read Cache on the computer is by comparison, a "free lunch" and one of the better computer inventions. The first version I saw was on a Sun Sparc. Then System Read Cache showed up on my Mac. And finally, it came to Win2K and the PC. And the Win2K behavior "was the best" and System Read Cache has been watered down over the years since that release. The System Read Cache and System Write Cache, seem to be disabled when you defragment a hard drive. as an example of how you "water down" a cache, by adding exceptions. Uncached reads and writes are available via software API, so any developer who doesn't want to worry about what a cache is doing, can avoid them. Paul |
#49
|
|||
|
|||
MS Word 2010 May be solved...more info
In article , Wolf K
wrote: Cache should automatically be emptied the moment _any_ program is closed. I can't imagine what the benefit of leaving it there actually is. Should, but browsers (eg) often retain the cache. which is kept on disk and faster than a network query. |
#50
|
|||
|
|||
MS Word 2010 May be solved...more info
On 1/17/19 9:42 AM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2019-01-17 09:36, philo wrote: [...] f I followed the good advice at the time it was probably inadvertent! The 64 bit version is now installed but it think I found what the problem really was. I looked at the Office 2010 tool kit and checked the cache settings. By default MS Word is set to NOT clear cache on closing and to store cache for 14 days! There is also an option to clear cache . I cleared cache, set the program to only hold for one day and to clear when closed. I also told my wife she can run the tool kit to clear cache anytime she wanted...and to do so periodically after large edits. She had no further problems yesterdayÂ* but I did not make this discovery until close to the end of her work day. Thanks for this. Fits what I think I know. IIRC, the cache by default is written to disk at regular intervals, so a large cache would invoke paging. Paging takes a long time. Best, Seven hours and no problems ...so cache was it |
#51
|
|||
|
|||
MS Word 2010 May be solved...more info
On 1/17/19 1:54 PM, Paul wrote:
philo wrote: The 64 bit version is now installed but it think I found what the problem really was. I looked at the Office 2010 tool kit and checked the cache settings. By default MS Word is set to NOT clear cache on closing and to store cache for 14 days! There is also an option to clear cache . I cleared cache, set the program to only hold for one day and to clear when closed. I also told my wife she can run the tool kit to clear cache anytime she wanted...and to do so periodically after large edits. She had no further problems yesterday* but I did not make this discovery until close to the end of her work day. This could be a OneDrive-style cache. If you're not storing the working documents in the cloud, do you even need a OneDrive cache ? The upload on my ADSL (not a VDSL) is pretty slow, and working with Cloud storage in the expected way would be out of the question. A Cloud Cache, keeping local copies, would be essential to high performance in such a case. But if I was keeping the only copy of the documents on the C: drive and didn't even have a Cloud account, that cache would likely not be needed. When you see a cache on something, ask yourself "what's it for" and "why do I need this". Many times the answers are obvious (we never question the usage of L1/L2/L3 on our CPU), but don't be tricked into caches that have no value. The System Write Cache on my computer, is ********, and is actually... dangerous. The System Read Cache on the computer is by comparison, a "free lunch" and one of the better computer inventions. The first version I saw was on a Sun Sparc. Then System Read Cache showed up on my Mac. And finally, it came to Win2K and the PC.* And the Win2K behavior "was the best" and System Read Cache has been watered down over the years since that release. The System Read Cache and System Write Cache, seem to be disabled when you defragment a hard drive. as an example of how you "water down" a cache, by adding exceptions. Uncached reads and writes are available via software API, so any developer who doesn't want to worry about what a cache is doing, can avoid them. ** Paul Cache is kept on hard drive problem now solved |
#52
|
|||
|
|||
MS Word 2010
On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 10:50:20 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote: On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 18:50:52 -0500, silverslimer wrote: On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 16:19:58 -0700, Ken Blake wrote: On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 15:52:55 -0500, silverslimer wrote: On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 12:30:27 -0700, Ken Blake wrote: On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 10:36:34 -0800, croy wrote: I'm using Word 2000, so this may not apply, but I started with Word for DOS. But with Word for Windows, it's always been the case that when working on a long, complex document, frequent saves are a must to prevent Word crashes. If I'm doing something truly esoteric, I save after each successful step! alt f s is your friend! Word 2000, Word for DOS, or any other version of Word, you should always do frequent saves. And that's true whether it's a long complex document or not. Saves do not prevent Word crashes. What they prevent is your being hurt by a problem of almost any type: Word crashes, Windows crashes, hardware failures, power failures, user errors, malware attacks, etc. And the same is true for any other word processor, not just Word. Even if it's not a word processor, but some other type of program, if you put work into a file, you should frequently save what you've done. To be fair, Word saves automatically by default every five minutes. That may depend on what version you use; I'm not sure. But yes, other word processors do too, such as WordPerfect, the word processor I use and greatly prefer to Word. And the length of time between saving may be adjustable. But my point remains, regardless of what program you use, even it's not a word processor you should be sure you get frequent saves, whether they are automatic or you have to do them manually. I have to admit that I'm a fan of WordPerfect as well. I got the X6 version from some OEM CD on eBay a few years back and found the word processor's interface to be ugly as sin but the actual software to be a lot more complete than Word. The only issue I had was the fact that it took ages to load. We're very different. I like WordPerfect's interface much better than Word's. I run X7, not X6, but there's hardly any difference between them. Out of curiosity, I just timed how long it took to load; it was 3.5 seconds, and that 's fine as far as I'm concerned. My wife runs X6, and I just timed loading on her machine. It was 6.5 seconds, a little slower (probably because mine loads from an SSD and hers from a HD), but still fine. I also started Word 2016 on my machine to compare its startup time with WordPerfect's; it was 5 seconds, a little slower than WordPerfect. I'm starting to wonder if the last time I used WordPerfect was on the i3 I owned before this i7. I'll have to find that WordPerfect Office X6 CD somewhere and install it again. Since we moved last month, I have no idea where the wife put it so I'm using LibreOffice for now. That, I have to admit, loads very fast now. |
#53
|
|||
|
|||
MS Word 2010
On 16/01/2019 22:43, nospam wrote:
In article , philo wrote: "nospam" has been blocked for years He seems fairly knowledgeable. Is there any reason you've blocked him? On one of the other groups his answers are wrong 98% of the time baseless attack. if you've blocked me, then you would have no way to know how often i'm right or wrong. You are a *TROLL*, 'nospam' - most folk know that. And you *LIE*! -- David B. |
#54
|
|||
|
|||
MS Word 2010
In article , David B.
wrote: You are a *TROLL*, you're not one to be calling others trolls. |
#55
|
|||
|
|||
MS Word 2010
On 18/01/2019 01:05, nospam *THE TROLL* was identified!
In article , David B. wrote: You are a *TROLL*, you're not one to be calling others trolls. Why's that? You *ARE* a *TROLL*, 'nospam'! :-P -- David B. |
#56
|
|||
|
|||
MS Word 2010
On 18-1-2019 2:05, nospam wrote:
In article , David B. wrote: You are a *TROLL*, you're not one to be calling others trolls. Three trolls playing pingpong. Live must suck for you.... |
#57
|
|||
|
|||
MS Word 2010
On 18/01/2019 01:21, Sjouke Burry wrote:
On 18-1-2019 2:05, nospam wrote: In article , David B. wrote: You are a *TROLL*, you're not one to be calling others trolls. Three trolls playing pingpong. Live must suck for you.... You should have used the word LIFE not "Live" (HTH) And no, it doesn't! :-) Philo is a super guy and most certainly is no Troll. If you ever need assistance with computer problems, you can rely on any help given by Philo. -- David B. |
#58
|
|||
|
|||
MS Word 2010
silverslimer wrote:
Andy Burns wrote: if you don't like 90 degree increments, Format, Image, properties, Image, Rotation angle Do you know if this is a recent addition Just installed openoffice 1.0.3 (dating from 2003) in a VM I happened to have fired-up, and no image rotation at all existed in writer. |
#59
|
|||
|
|||
MS Word 2010
silverslimer wrote:
Andy Burns wrote: if you don't like 90 degree increments, Format, Image, properties, Image, Rotation angle Do you know if this is a recent addition Just installed openoffice 1.0.3 (dating from 2003) in a VM I happened to have fired-up, and no image rotation at all existed in writer. Not sure why anyone would persist using a 15 year old version of open source software (freeware) when it has most surely been substantially updated with new features over those years. Who cares when it was introduced; - it's there in the current (free) version! -- Garry Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org Classic VB Users Regroup! comp.lang.basic.visual.misc microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion |
#60
|
|||
|
|||
MS Word 2010
On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 19:01:20 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote: silverslimer wrote: Andy Burns wrote: if you don't like 90 degree increments, Format, Image, properties, Image, Rotation angle Do you know if this is a recent addition Just installed openoffice 1.0.3 (dating from 2003) in a VM I happened to have fired-up, and no image rotation at all existed in writer. It's possible that the developers of the software noticed us debating image rotation in the newsgroups and decided that it was indeed laughable that they didn't have the feature. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | Rate This Thread |
|
|