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#31
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Help for Neighbor?
On 8/1/13 9:33 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
Warren Post wrote: On 07/31/2013 08:39 PM, Paul wrote: Juan Wei wrote: ray carter has written on 7/31/2013 8:21 PM: What I would do - would be to install Debian. YMMV Why Debian over the others, say Ubuntu? Because Debian might have an interface you can use. Ubuntu has something that looks like Metro interface. I feel a little nausea, when I see these icons on the left. So install a different desktop environment. Unlike Windows 8, where you have no alternative to the tile interface, Linux lets you install dozens of different desktop environments. On my computer at work I have Ubuntu running the Xfce desktop environment. No problem. Therein lies the problem with Linux too, though - there are more distros and desktops than there are functional programs to use. All the familiar programs that everyone wants to use only run on Windows. No video editor (that works well), no Microsoft office, no latest games, the list is endless. Hi, Bob, Up front, I may be misinterpreting your reply, and if I am, I apologize. I just don't understand the idea that you *have* to have MS Office, Adobe Photoshop, Corel Draw, etc. And it frustrates me to no end! LOL Unless a program has a specific function/feature you need, there are a myriad of programs out there that can replace any of those programs. And many are free and cross platform. No one *needs* a specific program. All that is needed is for the program you are using to have the features you need/want, and to be able to read the other guy's files. I learned this in my 8-bit days. Nothing more, nothing less. Look at the logical end... If it got to the point where MS Word was the only word processor available anywhere. MS could make all kinds of changes you don't like, bugs they never fix, etc. Now what's your option? One thing I'm beginning to relearn from my 8-bit days, you simply have to find and try out different programs that do a particular category of work (i.e. word processors) until you find the one that does what you need, and fits you. Personal case in point. As part of my summer job (I'm retired, BTW), I have to give an interpretive speech. I found out other coworker's speeches gave different info, and sometimes the opposite info, than mine, so I started researching to find out who is/was correct. I stumbled onto a script writing program called Scrivener. The ease with which I can keep my research notes orderly is amazing compared to any word processor I've ever used. If you are a student, academically oriented (meaning you want good grades), I'd recommend this program for your research. And it will write Word files! H E Double Hockey Sticks, even Apple's TextEdit (more or less Notepad in Windows) will save .docx files. I guess my point is, if I even have one (LOL), is you don't need the high end, costly programs to do the vast majority of computer tasks out there. So, why do people seem to think they just have to have them instead of something else? -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.4 Firefox 22.0 Thunderbird 17.0.7 LibreOffice 4.0.4.2 |
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#32
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Help for Neighbor?
Dave has written on 8/1/2013 1:32 PM:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 16:56:46 -0400, Juan Wei wrote: I just saw this on a Windows mailing list: A neighbor had a serious senior moment yesterday and let Global Techs PC Support have remote access to her Win 8 HP laptop for a couple of hours. At this point, she's frightened of even turning it on. What would you do if you were faced with this computer? Win 8 reset? Nuke and pave? Something else? I don't know what anti-malware she has on the machine -- whatever comes with a new HP laptop, I presume, plus perhaps "Norton Security Suite" as provided by her ISP. Thanks. I've seen this when someone asked me for help. Although the person involved denied having done something while online, I didn't believe her. This type of call is common, I believe they simply want some money, what happens if you give it to them I know not. In my case they had control of the machine and had installed software that required a password to gain access. Although it looked like a MS dialogue, password reset software didn't work. You need to have someone who is fairly savvy and has self loading media with virus detection stuff etc. You can't do much harm by firing up the machine after completely disconnecting from the internet. After that, depends on what you see and a knowledgeable person will be needed to take it from there. Fortunately, banks don't hold you responsible for unauthorized withdrawals in the US, but you should contact them. You can put a hold on credit cards or cancel for new ones. In my case I offloaded personal stuff using a linux puppy self loading flash drive and restored the machine to 'as purchased' state. Most machine don't come with restore stuff anymore and after that it's catch 22. If people know enough to create and maintain backups they probably won't get into this type of problem in the first place. If they don't know enough they won't have any backup/restore media. I'm not sure if anti malware will catch this problem. Check these sites: http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...crosoft-virus- scam-continues and this: http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=250999 I believe you can get help from the machine's manufacturer for restore media for nominal charge provided you can supply the original purchase details etc. If the machine isn't too old you could also try the retailer. What if they had installed malware in the BIOS or MBR? |
#33
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Help for Neighbor?
On Thu, 1 Aug 2013 05:12:13 -0400, dadiOH wrote:
Why does she think that employees of what appears to be a legitimate company which she hired did anything to compromise her computer or the data on it? Part of the success of the scammers is that to a naive user they can "appear to be a legitimate company". -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#34
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Help for Neighbor?
Bob Henson has written on 8/1/2013 2:07 PM:
Juan Wei wrote: Bob Henson has written on 8/1/2013 11:33 AM: Therein lies the problem with Linux too, though - there are more distros and desktops than there are functional programs to use. All the familiar programs that everyone wants to use only run on Windows. No video editor (that works well), no Microsoft office, no latest games, the list is endless. Have you tried to get a decent Spider Solitaire for Win 8???? No - but then I don't use Windows 8. I only have a test version so I can learn about the pitfalls. I come across Windows 8 in my volunteer work, so I like to know my way round it - that's why I read this group. I use Windows 7 mainly and will do so indefinitely now - it will still be around when I'm long gone. I use, and like, Linux Mint and Debian too, but they're very limited as to what they can do. What are their limitations? |
#35
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Help for Neighbor?
On 01 Aug 2013, Richard Rose wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8: And you dont have to contend with bugs with MS cant fix that go back Windows 3.1 Such as what? or NSA back doors! |
#36
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Help for Neighbor?
ray carter wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 20:29:54 -0400, Juan Wei wrote: ray carter has written on 7/31/2013 8:21 PM: What I would do - would be to install Debian. YMMV Why Debian over the others, say Ubuntu? I like the stability and the fact that release cycles are longer. "release cycles" - part of that, is the availability of working repositories. When a "release" is no longer supported, they turn off the repository. The repository holds 15000 applications, for immediate download (binaries) via a package manager. It wouldn't cost anything, to leave those repositories running. I expect there are a few users, who would like that. They mumble about "security", but I think that's up to the users to decide. If you didn't have a repository, you'd have to build from scratch (assuming you could find a source snapshot from the same point in time). I'll give an example of why this might be important. I have a Ubuntu (7.04 or so) CD. At the time, if I installed that, I would be able to download a working copy of TVTime application. It takes my BT878 TV tuner card, and allows me to watch TV in Linux. It has both working sound and video. Sound is via ALSA. Now, roll forward to Ubuntu 11-13 range. UBuntu 7.04 repository is turned off. If I install 7.04 today, I could not get a copy of TVTime. I might not even have enough developer tools loaded, to bootstrap myself. (I think I had a problem like that, while doing something in 7.04 a couple years ago.) If I "upgraded" to Ubuntu 13, there is a repository, but Ubuntu 13 uses PulseAudio (an "improvement"). PulseAudio broke the sound in TVTime. No developer wanted to fix the sound subsystem (the job probably isn't all that difficult, if you had a basic understanding of how to port ALSA applications to PulseAudio - I don't). Now, when I visit the Repository of UBuntu 13, download TVTime, I get video but no sound. Such is the nature of Linux. The only thing that works in Linux, is the "new and shiny". I'm not one for listening to music on the computer that much, but a number of other PulseAudio issues, ****ed off music fans when PulseAudio came out. Like someone's favorite player no longer working right. Similar "improvements" came out with a certain system bus implementation. At one time, hardware was discovered and actually worked. It was replaced by some other thing, that yes, it did discover hardware. But, that new subsystem could die, leaving you with a non-working keyboard and mouse in the middle of a session. (No, plugging in another keyboard or mouse will not help.) Resetting your Linux box is fine, with a journaled file system, so at least you won't be hurting anything when your reset button is the only working control input. The single biggest threat to Ubuntu lovers right now, is the plan to replace XWindows as the underlying GUI. I can imagine the carnage in the 15000 app Repository now :-( Maybe, a TVTime with no video or audio :-( But I bet it would still be in the Repository. Ubuntu is popular, which is why it comes up in conversations. But you don't have to chase whatever Shuttleworth comes up with, in terms of strategies. All that is needed, is an alternative distro, with user control. Such a distro was Gentoo, but it seems to be missing a certain polish these days, and I wouldn't dare suggest it as an alternative to anyone. The first time I used it, the install went fault-free (if you could follow a well written recipe, you could do it for yourself). Everything worked. Now, the dependency issues in the software, are a nightmare. The beauty of Gentoo, is I can turn off PulseAudio at build time, and have a working TVTime. That's the beauty of Gentoo. Everything is built from source, while you watch. It might take ten to fifteen hours of compiling, to build a working desktop onto an empty hard drive. And your TVTime could have ALSA if it wanted. No need to fix it. ******* As for the "download an ISO, burn a CD", you can actually order copies of Linux CDs (or DVDs). This would be an option for people not on broadband. In some cases, there are shops on the Internet that carry more than one distro. http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=17 As an example of that, I bought a FreeBSD release a number of years ago, and a box of CDs was shipped from a supplier, all ready to go (I got install and source in the box). So you don't have to struggle, to get installer media. There's always someone out there somewhere, who'll do it for you. Paul |
#37
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Help for Neighbor?
"Juan Wei" wrote in message
dadiOH has written on 8/1/2013 5:12 AM: "Juan Wei" wrote in message I just saw this on a Windows mailing list: A neighbor had a serious senior moment yesterday and let Global Techs PC Support have remote access to her Win 8 HP laptop for a couple of hours. She realized the error of her ways, contacted her credit card companies, banks, etc.; changed all her passwords; called one of the major credit reporting agencies; and so on. Her son, who is a rocket scientist, told her that they could have planted any number of undetectable "devices" on her machine and that, even if she does a Win 8 factory reset, there's no guarantee that doing that would remove all of the devices. I assume he's talking about "ordinary" malware so she's going to have him call me so I can get a better idea of what he's concerned about. At this point, she's frightened of even turning it on. What would you do if you were faced with this computer? Win 8 reset? Nuke and pave? Something else? I don't know what anti-malware she has on the machine -- whatever comes with a new HP laptop, I presume, plus perhaps "Norton Security Suite" as provided by her ISP. Thanks. Why does she think that employees of what appears to be a legitimate company which she hired did anything to compromise her computer or the data on it? I think they are a well-known scam outfit. I mean, who calls you and offers to fix your computer because they've seen so many error messages? Apparently, not the one I found via Google. -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
#38
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Help for Neighbor?
Juan Wei wrote:
What if they had installed malware in the BIOS or MBR? You can always contact tech support, and see if they'll make an effort to send the original BIOS to you as a flasher. Or, you could try an authorized service center. If the BIOS chip is socketed, that gives more options for solving the problem (get someone to ship a replacement BIOS chip that plugs in). On modern systems, the BIOS may be an eight pin DIP (serial EEPROM). You could even look for a replacement motherboard on Ebay, if you got desperate (motherboard from a smashed laptop). As long as the BIOS chip is intact, you might be able to move it over. It is easier if the thing is socketed, versus soldered into place. But I'd start with the tech support of the manufacturer first. As they might have something they could email to you as an attachment. ******* The MBR isn't a problem, as you can pull the hard drive, slave it to another computer (as a non-boot drive), and just erase it. That's if your plan was to start from scratch. Then, put it back into the machine. Paul |
#39
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Help for Neighbor?
On Thu, 01 Aug 2013 13:23:41 -0400, Juan Wei
wrote: Bob Henson has written on 8/1/2013 11:33 AM: Therein lies the problem with Linux too, though - there are more distros and desktops than there are functional programs to use. All the familiar programs that everyone wants to use only run on Windows. No video editor (that works well), no Microsoft office, no latest games, the list is endless. Have you tried to get a decent Spider Solitaire for Win 8???? If, by "decent" you mean the one that was in Windows 7, how to get it back isn't well known, but getting back all the Windows 7 games isn't difficult. Read he http://www.howtogeek.com/122145/what...pai gn=200812 -- Ken Blake |
#40
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Help for Neighbor?
"Bob Henson" wrote in message ... Juan Wei wrote: Bob Henson has written on 8/1/2013 2:07 PM: Juan Wei wrote: Bob Henson has written on 8/1/2013 11:33 AM: Therein lies the problem with Linux too, though - there are more distros and desktops than there are functional programs to use. All the familiar programs that everyone wants to use only run on Windows. No video editor (that works well), no Microsoft office, no latest games, the list is endless. Have you tried to get a decent Spider Solitaire for Win 8???? No - but then I don't use Windows 8. I only have a test version so I can learn about the pitfalls. I come across Windows 8 in my volunteer work, so I like to know my way round it - that's why I read this group. I use Windows 7 mainly and will do so indefinitely now - it will still be around when I'm long gone. I use, and like, Linux Mint and Debian too, but they're very limited as to what they can do. What are their limitations? There are so many desktop software applications that just don't exist under Linux, that it is completely unusable for commercial purposes, and most domestic. It's easier to say what it *can* do, apart from running servers which it does, of course, exceptionally well - much of the Internet relies on Linux. Most Linux distros are fairly stable and safe, but no more stable than Windows 7 - recent attempts to become modern and trendy have made it much less stable, certainly the UIs anyway. The safety aspects are over-rated - if it was used as much as Windows a lot of that apparent safety would disappear as it would then become more of a target to the crooks. With LibreOffice it can handle most office functions, but it is not fully Microsoft office compatible, which rules it out for many businesses who require that. It will handle e-mail and web browsing as well as Windows if you use the same programs - Thunderbird, Firefox etc. The Linux e-mail and browsing software programs are largely clunky, old-fashioned and quirky, albeit they work. Other than that it cannot vaguely compete with the better Windows software. It has one good photo manipulation program but it is so weird to use that most don't even try to use it. I doesn't have a good video editing suite. If you want to play modern well-known games - forget it, there aren't any. There isn't any decent backup software. Networking is for the geek - very tricky to set up by the average user. Connecting and synchronising a phone is for the real expert, as is plugging in a mobile broadband dongle and getting on line with it. Most firms use specialist software of some kind - much of which doesn't exist at all under Linux. What it does, it does well - it's just very limited as to software availability and hence what it can do - like a Mac, but much, much worse. -- Well said! And without emotion! Excellent! +77 Chris |
#41
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Help for Neighbor?
On Thu, 01 Aug 2013 11:51:22 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote: I just don't understand the idea that you *have* to have MS Office, Adobe Photoshop, Corel Draw, etc. And it frustrates me to no end! LOL With some exceptions, I by and large agree with you. But see below. Unless a program has a specific function/feature you need, there are a myriad of programs out there that can replace any of those programs. And many are free and cross platform. There at least two things about that statement that I don't agree with: 1. If I have invested a substantial amount of time and trouble learning how to use a specific program, and learning how to use a new different one means I would now have to expend a lot of time and trouble all over again, making a change is not at all attractive. Photoshop is probably a good example of that. 2. If I have a history of data in some particular format and there is no other program that can read and use it properly, I would never want to make a change. My Quicken history is what I have in mind. I don't know what Linux programs are available and what they can do and what they can't do. Perhaps my examples of Photoshop and Quicken aren't good ones, and there are Linux replacements that would satisfy me. But they were only meant as examples of my points. They might be poor examples, but if so, there are undoubtedly other good ones. No one *needs* a specific program. Generally true, but we are all different, and that doesn't apply to everyone. Some people, for all practical purposes, do need a specific program. All that is needed is for the program you are using to have the features you need/want, and to be able to read the other guy's files. Those are the main things that are needed, but they are not all. See above. Look at the logical end... If it got to the point where MS Word was the only word processor available anywhere. MS could make all kinds of changes you don't like, bugs they never fix, etc. Now what's your option? I'm not at all a big fan of Microsoft Word. Instead I use WordPerfect, and I think it's a much better program. But I also know that a good part of my thinking WordPerfect is much better is that it's what I know the best and am most familiar with. If I were forced to make a change (for example, by changing operating systems), I would be a very unhappy camper One thing I'm beginning to relearn from my 8-bit days, you simply have to find and try out different programs that do a particular category of work (i.e. word processors) until you find the one that does what you need, and fits you. On that statement, I'm with you 100% We all have different needs and different tastes, and what's best for one of us isn't necessarily the best for all of us. Mac OS X 10.8.4 Firefox 22.0 Thunderbird 17.0.7 LibreOffice 4.0.4.2 As an example of what I said in the last paragraph above, I don't use any of those. We are completely different here. And that's fine--those might be best for you, but they are not what's best for me. Neither of us is right; we are just different. Here are my equivalents Windows 8 Maxthon 3 (but I've been leaning toward SlimBrowser and may switch over to it) Microsoft Outlook 2013 for e-mail, Forte Agent 6.00 for a newsreader WordPerfect X6 for a word processor, Microsoft Office 2013 for most other Office functions -- Ken Blake |
#42
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Help for Neighbor?
On Thu, 1 Aug 2013 17:32:03 +0000 (UTC), Dave
wrote: I've seen this when someone asked me for help. Although the person involved denied having done something while online, I didn't believe her. This type of call is common, I believe they simply want some money, It may be that they simply want money. Or it may be that some of them simply want money and others want to install malware, key loggers, etc. Or maybe they all want to install such things. I don't know for sure what they do, but my advice to anyone who let such a person into their computer is to do a clean Windows reinstallation and change all your passwords. The risk of not doing it is too great; it's playing with fire. -- Ken Blake |
#43
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Help for Neighbor?
"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message ... On Thu, 1 Aug 2013 05:12:13 -0400, dadiOH wrote: Why does she think that employees of what appears to be a legitimate company which she hired did anything to compromise her computer or the data on it? Part of the success of the scammers is that to a naive user they can "appear to be a legitimate company". -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) dadiOh seems to fall rather squarely into that category.... Chris |
#44
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Help for Neighbor?
On Thu, 01 Aug 2013 16:04:46 -0400, Paul wrote:
ray carter wrote: On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 20:29:54 -0400, Juan Wei wrote: ray carter has written on 7/31/2013 8:21 PM: What I would do - would be to install Debian. YMMV Why Debian over the others, say Ubuntu? I like the stability and the fact that release cycles are longer. "release cycles" - part of that, is the availability of working repositories. When a "release" is no longer supported, they turn off the repository. The repository holds 15000 applications, for immediate download (binaries) via a package manager. With the Debian 'cycle' usually coming in at a few years, you can really run one version for quite a long time - and the repositories are there for quite a while after the next version is released. Similarly, with Ubuntu (which I don't really care for) if you stick to the LTS (Long Term Support) versions, they will likewise go for quite a while. It wouldn't cost anything, to leave those repositories running. I expect there are a few users, who would like that. They mumble about "security", but I think that's up to the users to decide. If you didn't have a repository, you'd have to build from scratch (assuming you could find a source snapshot from the same point in time). I'll give an example of why this might be important. I have a Ubuntu (7.04 or so) CD. At the time, if I installed that, I would be able to download a working copy of TVTime application. It takes my BT878 TV tuner card, and allows me to watch TV in Linux. It has both working sound and video. Sound is via ALSA. Now, roll forward to Ubuntu 11-13 range. UBuntu 7.04 repository is turned off. If I install 7.04 today, I could not get a copy of TVTime. I might not even have enough developer tools loaded, to bootstrap myself. (I think I had a problem like that, while doing something in 7.04 a couple years ago.) Why would you want to install a six year old version now? A lot has changed in terms of hardware support and abilities. If I "upgraded" to Ubuntu 13, there is a repository, but Ubuntu 13 uses PulseAudio (an "improvement"). PulseAudio broke the sound in TVTime. No developer wanted to fix the sound subsystem (the job probably isn't all that difficult, if you had a basic understanding of how to port ALSA applications to PulseAudio - I don't). Now, when I visit the Repository of UBuntu 13, download TVTime, I get video but no sound. Such is the nature of Linux. The only thing that works in Linux, is the "new and shiny". I'm not one for listening to music on the computer that much, but a number of other PulseAudio issues, ****ed off music fans when PulseAudio came out. Like someone's favorite player no longer working right. Similar "improvements" came out with a certain system bus implementation. At one time, hardware was discovered and actually worked. It was replaced by some other thing, that yes, it did discover hardware. But, that new subsystem could die, leaving you with a non-working keyboard and mouse in the middle of a session. (No, plugging in another keyboard or mouse will not help.) Resetting your Linux box is fine, with a journaled file system, so at least you won't be hurting anything when your reset button is the only working control input. The single biggest threat to Ubuntu lovers right now, is the plan to replace XWindows as the underlying GUI. I can imagine the carnage in the 15000 app Repository now :-( Maybe, a TVTime with no video or audio :-( But I bet it would still be in the Repository. I thought we were talking about Debian. Another reason I don't care for Ubuntu is their propensity to take off on their own with regard to desktop development. Ubuntu is popular, which is why it comes up in conversations. But you don't have to chase whatever Shuttleworth comes up with, in terms of strategies. All that is needed, is an alternative distro, with user control. Such a distro was Gentoo, but it seems to be missing a certain polish these days, and I wouldn't dare suggest it as an alternative to anyone. The first time I used it, the install went fault-free (if you could follow a well written recipe, you could do it for yourself). Everything worked. Now, the dependency issues in the software, are a nightmare. The beauty of Gentoo, is I can turn off PulseAudio at build time, and have a working TVTime. That's the beauty of Gentoo. Everything is built from source, while you watch. It might take ten to fifteen hours of compiling, to build a working desktop onto an empty hard drive. And your TVTime could have ALSA if it wanted. No need to fix it. ******* As for the "download an ISO, burn a CD", you can actually order copies of Linux CDs (or DVDs). This would be an option for people not on broadband. In some cases, there are shops on the Internet that carry more than one distro. One can also do 'net installs' on quite small media or install from a flash drive. http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=17 As an example of that, I bought a FreeBSD release a number of years ago, and a box of CDs was shipped from a supplier, all ready to go (I got install and source in the box). So you don't have to struggle, to get installer media. There's always someone out there somewhere, who'll do it for you. Paul |
#45
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Help for Neighbor?
dadiOH has written on 8/1/2013 4:10 PM:
"Juan Wei" wrote in message dadiOH has written on 8/1/2013 5:12 AM: "Juan Wei" wrote in message I just saw this on a Windows mailing list: A neighbor had a serious senior moment yesterday and let Global Techs PC Support have remote access to her Win 8 HP laptop for a couple of hours. She realized the error of her ways, contacted her credit card companies, banks, etc.; changed all her passwords; called one of the major credit reporting agencies; and so on. Her son, who is a rocket scientist, told her that they could have planted any number of undetectable "devices" on her machine and that, even if she does a Win 8 factory reset, there's no guarantee that doing that would remove all of the devices. I assume he's talking about "ordinary" malware so she's going to have him call me so I can get a better idea of what he's concerned about. At this point, she's frightened of even turning it on. What would you do if you were faced with this computer? Win 8 reset? Nuke and pave? Something else? I don't know what anti-malware she has on the machine -- whatever comes with a new HP laptop, I presume, plus perhaps "Norton Security Suite" as provided by her ISP. Thanks. Why does she think that employees of what appears to be a legitimate company which she hired did anything to compromise her computer or the data on it? I think they are a well-known scam outfit. I mean, who calls you and offers to fix your computer because they've seen so many error messages? Apparently, not the one I found via Google. Global Techs PC Support has a nice website and appears to be legitimate. But no one answers either phone. |
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