Question on OE Express Upgrade Sorry if OT

I am trying OE Express v1.63, and see there is already an upgrade to
v1.64. I downloaded the latter, but during the istall of same, it
warns that files will be deleted by the update. I worry that my
mailboxes will be removed, and certainly do not want that.

Anyone know if the mailboxes are removed by the update?

XieXie
Wei

Here is what I meant. Sorry.


On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 07:36:05 -0400, in alt.windows7.general
wrote:

I am trying OE Classic v1.63, and see there is already an upgrade to
v1.64. I downloaded the latter, but during the istall of same, it
warns that files will be deleted by the update. I worry that my
mailboxes will be removed, and certainly do not want that.

Anyone know if the mailboxes are removed by the update?

XieXie
Wei

On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 08:15:05 -0400, Wolf K
wrote:


No, but I would back up the mailboxes just to be safe. I back them up
regularly, in fact.

I agree - now that I see where they are.

XieXie

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 08:15:05 -0400, Wolf K
wrote:


No, but I would back up the mailboxes just to be safe. I back them up
regularly, in fact.

I agree - now that I see where they are.

XieXie



I don't know if this will work, but it does moving fro OE to Windows Mail,
Windows Live Mail, Thunderbird, etc. It's a little work, but I would be
interested to see if OE Classic supported this. (Keeping in mind the like
Thunderbird, OE Classis is not a Microsoft program).

* Create a Windows folder on the Desktop of the old machine.
* Open a folder in OE and drag the messages to the Desktop folder. (They
will remain in OE).
* Copy this folder to the Desktop on the new machine.
* Open the folder and drag the messages to a folder in the new e-mail
program.

--
Bruce Hagen
MS-MVP 2004 ~ 2010
Imperial Beach, CA

wrote in message
...
I am trying OE Express v1.63, and see there is already an upgrade to
v1.64. I downloaded the latter, but during the istall of same, it
Anyone know if the mailboxes are removed by the update?

You should really contact user support from the site

But no, of course the messages won't be removed by update. Why it the world
would we do that?
Upgrade only changes older program files but never touches your email and
other data (settings, address book etc.)

The messages are only removed if you use "uninstall" from start menu and
ONLY if you double-confirm you want to delete. So you first must select in
uninstaller to remove messages, and then you must then confirm "are you
sure" box. So you can't do it by accident.

But of course, backing up your Store folder is always good idea. You can see
where your store folder is located he
http://www.oeclassic.com/online-help-store-folder

Look in the table your Windows version because it is different from WinXP
and Win 7 or 8. There is also possibility to have custom location but you
have to tweak registry key to do so (it will be built into GUI soon). As you
could see, OE Classic progresses really quickly (every day there is a new
version for paid customers and every 2 weeks on average for free ones).

Hi, A.

So you can't do it by accident.

But you can sure delete ALL your messages by blindly clicking "Yes" without
reading the warning! :(

I've never used OE Classic, or OE itself since WinXP over 6 years ago, but
I've seen this behavior in Windows Live Mail, both personally and in
newsgroups. This applies to email, not to newsgroups.

When you choose to delete an email account, you can just right-click on the
account in the pane on the left of the WLM screen, then choose Remove
account. A warning box pops up, asking, "Are you sure...? We see so many
of these messages that we are conditioned to just click "Yes" - and that is
probably NOT what we want to do this time!

Look at the dense paragraph of boilerplate and read it carefully. Note this
text buried in the middle of the first sentence: "...your messages will be
permanently deleted..." And, as it says, if your WLM is set - as many are -
to delete messages from the email server "as you read them", then your
messages are gone from both your computer and the server! :(

No, you won't do it "by accident". You'll do it on purpose - by not paying
attention to that warning.

Does OE Classic behave this way, too, A? You ask, "Why it the world would
we do that?" The pronoun "we" suggests that you are involved with the
program; is that correct?

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3508.0205) in Win8 Pro


"A" wrote in message ...

wrote in message
...
I am trying OE Express v1.63, and see there is already an upgrade to
v1.64. I downloaded the latter, but during the istall of same, it
Anyone know if the mailboxes are removed by the update?

You should really contact user support from the site

But no, of course the messages won't be removed by update. Why it the world
would we do that?
Upgrade only changes older program files but never touches your email and
other data (settings, address book etc.)

The messages are only removed if you use "uninstall" from start menu and
ONLY if you double-confirm you want to delete. So you first must select in
uninstaller to remove messages, and then you must then confirm "are you
sure" box. So you can't do it by accident.

But of course, backing up your Store folder is always good idea. You can see
where your store folder is located he
http://www.oeclassic.com/online-help-store-folder

Look in the table your Windows version because it is different from WinXP
and Win 7 or 8. There is also possibility to have custom location but you
have to tweak registry key to do so (it will be built into GUI soon). As you
could see, OE Classic progresses really quickly (every day there is a new
version for paid customers and every 2 weeks on average for free ones).

"R. C. White" wrote in message
news
But you can sure delete ALL your messages by blindly clicking "Yes"
without reading the warning! :(

There is no protection against that kind of action. But if you put it that
way, you can blindly hit your computer with a sledgehammer. How can you
blame computer manufaturer guilty if you do that than?

I belive the following "protection" is more than sufficient:

1) you have to run uninstaller (running installer doesn't delete old
messages, it just upgrades), only running uninstaller can delete messages
2) you have to click in uninstaller checkbox to remove all messages and data
3) you have to click "YES" when the warning pops - are you sure you want to
delete all your messages and data permanently. The message is worded like
this:
"Warning! If you remove all emails, accounts and settings you will lose them
permanently. You should keep them if you want to install program again or if
you want to upgrade to new version. Are you sure you want to completely
remove all emails, accounts and settings?"

So if that is not enough protection for you - 3 actions to delete all data,
then I'm really sorry, we can't do much more.

I've never used OE Classic, or OE itself since WinXP over 6 years ago, but
I've seen this behavior in Windows Live Mail, both personally and in
newsgroups. This applies to email, not to newsgroups.

He is talking about deleting whole store folder with all the settings, not a
single newsgroup. Deleting a single newsgroup is not a critical action - you
can easily subscribe again.

As for upgrade, in OE Classic you run installation program, not
uninstallation program. Installation program only tells you "are you sure
you want to upgrade" essentially, but we see now it may be misleading so we
will remove the question at all in next version. Autodetection is more than
enough to let the program know if it needs to upgrade. The warning was
written with the idea in mind to avoid accidentally deleting different
folder, but I see a flaw in that - it is hard to have another program in
"OEClassic" folder which is named "OEClassic.exe". So we will remove that
warning to avoid confusing users. Also, website has been updated with
following text:

"How to update from older version? Simply download and run new installation
file (above). That automatically upgrades to new version. Your emails,
contacts and settings are preserved."

So it is now easier to find that your emails/data/settings won't be deleted
on upgrades.

When you choose to delete an email account, you can just right-click on
the account in the pane on the left of the WLM screen, then choose Remove
account. A warning box pops up, asking, "Are you sure...? We see so many
of these messages that we are conditioned to just click "Yes" - and that
is probably NOT what we want to do this time!

Once again, deleting account is not a critical action. Deleting whole store
folder is much, much more serious - but as I explained above, it can't
happen by accident.

Does OE Classic behave this way, too, A? You ask, "Why it the world
would we do that?" The pronoun "we" suggests that you are involved with
the program; is that correct?

Yes, I am the lead developer. I just use this "A" name for other groups
where I want to stay anonymous (too lazy to change it or create new account
really, old habits die hard).

Hi, A.

Yes, I am the lead developer. I just use this "A" name for other groups

Thanks for clarifying that. It was becoming clear to me already as I read
many of your other posts here.

Too bad your OE improvement wasn't available when I was migrating from OE to
WM and then WLM. Now, I've been using WLM so long that "I've become
accustomed to [its] face" and probably won't switch. Twenty years ago I did
lots of experimenting, with Pegasus, Eudora, Aladdin...and several others.
Once OE appeared, I could finally check all my email accounts and newsgroups
with a single program and I've not seriously looked at others since about
1995. WLM has its well-publicized, well-deserved and rightly criticized
flaws (especially in its quoting behavior), but I've learned to live with
them.

I think we've covered my only quibble with your post: "So you can't do it
by accident." I see now that I misread your comment. I've seen so many
posts from users who have unintentionally (not really accidentally) deleted
their message store in OE that I overreacted when I saw that sentence. I
overlooked that you were discussing removal of the program, not of a mail
server account. Microsoft has completely stopped development of WLM -
without improving that error message - so there is no hope now that it will
ever be fixed. :(

So I'm sorry that I misread your comment and replied inappropriately to it.
After the dust has settled from my upcoming update to Win8.1, it might be
time to finally look for a replacement for WLM - and OE Classic might be a
good candidate.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3508.0205) in Win8 Pro


"A" wrote in message ...

"R. C. White" wrote in message
news
But you can sure delete ALL your messages by blindly clicking "Yes"
without reading the warning! :(

There is no protection against that kind of action. But if you put it that
way, you can blindly hit your computer with a sledgehammer. How can you
blame computer manufaturer guilty if you do that than?

I belive the following "protection" is more than sufficient:

1) you have to run uninstaller (running installer doesn't delete old
messages, it just upgrades), only running uninstaller can delete messages
2) you have to click in uninstaller checkbox to remove all messages and data
3) you have to click "YES" when the warning pops - are you sure you want to
delete all your messages and data permanently. The message is worded like
this:
"Warning! If you remove all emails, accounts and settings you will lose them
permanently. You should keep them if you want to install program again or if
you want to upgrade to new version. Are you sure you want to completely
remove all emails, accounts and settings?"

So if that is not enough protection for you - 3 actions to delete all data,
then I'm really sorry, we can't do much more.

I've never used OE Classic, or OE itself since WinXP over 6 years ago, but
I've seen this behavior in Windows Live Mail, both personally and in
newsgroups. This applies to email, not to newsgroups.

He is talking about deleting whole store folder with all the settings, not a
single newsgroup. Deleting a single newsgroup is not a critical action - you
can easily subscribe again.

As for upgrade, in OE Classic you run installation program, not
uninstallation program. Installation program only tells you "are you sure
you want to upgrade" essentially, but we see now it may be misleading so we
will remove the question at all in next version. Autodetection is more than
enough to let the program know if it needs to upgrade. The warning was
written with the idea in mind to avoid accidentally deleting different
folder, but I see a flaw in that - it is hard to have another program in
"OEClassic" folder which is named "OEClassic.exe". So we will remove that
warning to avoid confusing users. Also, website has been updated with
following text:

"How to update from older version? Simply download and run new installation
file (above). That automatically upgrades to new version. Your emails,
contacts and settings are preserved."

So it is now easier to find that your emails/data/settings won't be deleted
on upgrades.

When you choose to delete an email account, you can just right-click on
the account in the pane on the left of the WLM screen, then choose Remove
account. A warning box pops up, asking, "Are you sure...? We see so many
of these messages that we are conditioned to just click "Yes" - and that
is probably NOT what we want to do this time!

Once again, deleting account is not a critical action. Deleting whole store
folder is much, much more serious - but as I explained above, it can't
happen by accident.

Does OE Classic behave this way, too, A? You ask, "Why it the world would
we do that?" The pronoun "we" suggests that you are involved with the
program; is that correct?

Yes, I am the lead developer. I just use this "A" name for other groups
where I want to stay anonymous (too lazy to change it or create new account
really, old habits die hard).

"R. C. White" wrote in message
ecom...
Thanks for clarifying that. It was becoming clear to me already as I read
many of your other posts here.

Actually, I am just posting now because I've noticed this post so I wanted
to clarify some things with regard to OE Classic.
Perhaps it was some other "A"

server account. Microsoft has completely stopped development of WLM -
without improving that error message - so there is no hope now that it
will ever be fixed. :(

Well, that is difference. MS is kind of lost these days, they want to
"Apple" a bit here, "Google" a bit there and looks like they've forgotten
their original users.
We won't stop developing it so quickly and we also plan multiplatform
version (something MS won't ever offer).

So I'm sorry that I misread your comment and replied inappropriately to
it. After the dust has settled from my upcoming update to Win8.1, it might
be time to finally look for a replacement for WLM - and OE Classic might
be a good candidate.

Might be. Take a look at it when you might be ready for switch. It can only
get better by that point as we're polishing it day in and day out. And good
news for you is that we've just recently discovered what format WLM stores
its messages database - it has been a mistery for us for quite a while (it
is ESE JetBlue database, thank you Microsoft for hiding it so well). So we
can now make a good importer for it.

"A" wrote in message ...


Yes, I am the lead developer. I just use this "A" name for other
groups where I want to stay anonymous (too lazy to change it or
create new account really, old habits die hard).

From what I've seen OE Classic may be a fair/good alternative for those
wishing a non
MSFT client....though its taken some time to get some of the features
present in other clients (MSFT and third party) integrated into OEC.

If you are the developer then maybe you could correct the marketing
"Proprietary database without access interface (your emails are locked in
proprietary database) - this forces you to keep using Windows Live Mail even
if you don't like it later"
- Fyi...WLM stores all email messages as single *.eml files not a
proprietary database (which can be opened and read by all MSFT email
clients, Mozilla based email clients (e.g .SeaMonkey) and probably by OE
Classic.
-i.e. proprietary ?? Is your definition different ?

And if possible care to elaborate on how one easily moves messages from one
machine to another with OE Classic....if exporting/importing or copying is
the route...then can you explain what 'easier' means ?

Where is OE Classic based ?
The web site owner city is Toronto but the web site location is Croatia.

-
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps

"A" wrote in message ...

Might be. Take a look at it when you might be ready for switch. It can only
get better by that point as we're polishing it day in and day out. And good
news for you is that we've just recently discovered what format WLM stores
its messages database - it has been a mistery for us for quite a while (it
is ESE JetBlue database, thank you Microsoft for hiding it so well). So we
can now make a good importer for it.


Not sure what the mystery is.....the ESE Runtime has shipped in every
version of Windows since 2000 and has been the core of Microsoft Exchange
Server for decades which provides the ability to store and retrieve data by
index and sequential access. Even more a mystery would be the lack of
knowledge that the API for the ESE is a published API that anyone can use.

WLM stores email messages as individual and standard *.eml files and
newsgroup messages as *.nws files in folders with identical names as shown
in WLM's folder pane.

Thus the algorithm to store and retrieve messages is based on ESE (WLM's
Mail.MSMessageStore file is nothing more than an index. does not contain any
messages and is automatically backed up)... the actual messages are not
stored in database or the index)....with all messages just standard eml and
news files readable by a variety of applications.

Unlike email and news messages the Contacts and Calendar data are stored in
databases using the *.edb format.

Afaics...the format the OE Classic uses is more proprietary than WLM's
standard eml/nws approach. The free version could even be classified as
others have stated as lureware (ad- based) while WLM (also free) is not
ad-based. OEClassic free version while functional though not necessarily
ready for prime time appears to be the solely for luring people to pay for
the Pro version with a few more features but ultimately to raise capital to
fund the slow development and improvement that has occurred over the last
few years.

Finally, no real support mechanism exists on the sites web site beyond a
'Contact Us' method.
- One might wonder is *us* is singular than plural - i.e. a one man dog and
pony show.

In the long run you may very well prove to be successful in your
enterprenurial endeavor but at this time it's doubtful that this newsgroup
is the place to accomplish that objective...since it seems quite
coincidental that out of no where someone pops up with a question on
OEClassic which has previously never (or rarely )discussed in this Win7
forum and you arrive almost immediately.

It would be much better like many other developer's to release the Pro
version as freeware, setup of online support forum, improve the program so
its comparable to existing MSFT and 3rd party applications then and only
then consider soliciting payment for future upgrades.


--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps

On Mon, 7 Oct 2013 16:02:11 -0400, ...winston wrote:

Where is OE Classic based ?
The web site owner city is Toronto but the web site location is Croatia.

From his name, it must be Croatia.

Please just laugh - it's just some whimsy on my part. For one thing, I
really have a good idea what (most) Croatian names look like :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Mon, 7 Oct 2013 16:02:11 -0400, ...winston wrote:

Where is OE Classic based ?
The web site owner city is Toronto but the web site location is Croatia.

From his name, it must be Croatia.

Please just laugh - it's just some whimsy on my part. For one thing, I
really have a good idea what (most) Croatian names look like :-)


Eh! g

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

"...winston" wrote in message
...
WLM stores email messages as individual and standard *.eml files and
newsgroup messages as *.nws files in folders with identical names as shown
in WLM's folder pane.

We know that it keeps in EML files for quite a long time. We wanted to have
also database format which isn't so obvious. Now it is, when I've told you
but did you know that before I mentioned JetBlue and ESE? Database file does
not have standard extension (EDB) so we did have to make some guesswork.

Thus the algorithm to store and retrieve messages is based on ESE (WLM's
Mail.MSMessageStore file is nothing more than an index. does not contain
any messages and is automatically backed up)... the actual messages are
not

Index is very important because it contains metadata - message flags, if
message has been replied or not, if it is watched, folders, folder names,
associated names in disk EML files. It is essential when making good
importer. If you just want to make quick and dirty import then yes, reading
EML files is more than adequate.

Unlike email and news messages the Contacts and Calendar data are stored
in databases using the *.edb format.

Which is once again ESE database.

Afaics...the format the OE Classic uses is more proprietary than WLM's
standard eml/nws approach. The free version could even be classified as
others have stated as lureware (ad- based) while WLM (also free) is not

SQLite we use is public domain. our MBX format is publicly documented on:
http://www.oeclassic.com/online-help-store-folder
Anyone with one free afternoon can make importer for our format. Our MBX
format is public domain / royalty free too. So what is proprietary about all
that then?

the Pro version with a few more features but ultimately to raise capital
to fund the slow development and improvement that has occurred over the
last few years.

I'm sorry you think that way but you should know that OE Classic exists only
for 3 years and has nearly all the features expected of a email client (many
of them are around for more than 10 or 15 years). Yes, some are missing, but
we're filling the gap very quickly whenever we notice there is a gap where
we lack.

Finally, no real support mechanism exists on the sites web site beyond a
'Contact Us' method.
- One might wonder is *us* is singular than plural - i.e. a one man dog
and pony show.

Unfortunately, I can't go into too deep "flame-wars" with you because this
is not why I started answering messages here. I wanted to clarify/explain
some misconceptions people had here. So, please forgive me for not answering
in the same level like this. That is not my goal.

coincidental that out of no where someone pops up with a question on
OEClassic which has previously never (or rarely )discussed in this Win7
forum and you arrive almost immediately.

This is the first time I visited this group and only because someone
contacted us through our email form to let us know it doesn't download
newsgroups from astraweb.com server (which later proved to be their fault -
we already contacted them and they admitted it was their fault and server is
broken). I had in depth discussion with programmer of NNTP component and he
assured me with great detail and pointed to all the RFC's to show where
astraweb.com fails in NNTP protocol. I explained that in other posts.

It would be much better like many other developer's to release the Pro
version as freeware, setup of online support forum, improve the program so
its comparable to existing MSFT and 3rd party applications then and only
then consider soliciting payment for future upgrades.

We don't believe in "free lunch". Freeware usually has hidden price tag. For
example - Firefox may appear as free web browser on a surface. Yet, they are
funded by Google by 7-figure amounts to keep the "Google" search as default.
At the same time, volunteers do the hard work of programming. So much for
being free. Thunderbird has been abandoned like unwanted child and now is
ad-sponsored. We don't want that fate for our program. At least we don't
hide anything. The price is also very low but of course, if someone doesn't
really like it - there are always free althernatives. What is the point of
releasing it as free? Choice is good, whoever wants free, there are Windows
Live Mail, Thunderbird and others.

Please forgive me but I won't be contributing to future discussions like
this because I simply don't have time for that and besides, we're in the
middle of large update of OE Classic last few days so that obviously has
much more importance to me than contributing in endless discussions.

"...winston" wrote in message
...
And if possible care to elaborate on how one easily moves messages from
one
machine to another with OE Classic....if exporting/importing or copying is
the route...then can you explain what 'easier' means ?

It is easy because it is all stored in a single folder and if you move that
folder to another machine you're done. All settings and data are in just one
folder. There are no registry keys to move, no things to export/import. But,
regardless of that, we will make it even simpler by exporting all of that
into a single file. In future version, one day.

Where is OE Classic based ?
The web site owner city is Toronto but the web site location is Croatia.

We're based in Croatia.