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#61
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
Pete Stavrakoglou wrote: "Alias" wrote in message ... Pete Stavrakoglou wrote: "Alias" wrote in message ... snip With Bush's fiscal and warring policies, that will never happen. Our economy is doing well, has been for years now. His policies aren't as bad as the press or whatever your source is would have you believe. False. Weak dollar. Highest budget and trade deficit in history. Most jobs are crap jobs at places like McDonald's. Over 40 million people without health insurance. The most prisoners and homeless in the developed world. The economy may be great for Exxon, Microsoft and Bush's buddies but not the average American. Tell the victims of hurricane Katrina how groovy the US economy is. And, when you're done, take a stroll through LA's South Central and tell them because neither of them have gotten the news. Alias Are you an American? Those of us who are average Americans know differently than what you seem to think is the case. You couldn't be more wrong. BTW, what does the number of criminals in jail have to do with the strength of our economy. What are you smoking? EX-patriate would be the word that polite folks use. |
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#62
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
Pete Stavrakoglou wrote:
"Alias" wrote in message ... Pete Stavrakoglou wrote: "Alias" wrote in message ... snip With Bush's fiscal and warring policies, that will never happen. Our economy is doing well, has been for years now. His policies aren't as bad as the press or whatever your source is would have you believe. False. Weak dollar. Highest budget and trade deficit in history. Most jobs are crap jobs at places like McDonald's. Over 40 million people without health insurance. The most prisoners and homeless in the developed world. The economy may be great for Exxon, Microsoft and Bush's buddies but not the average American. Tell the victims of hurricane Katrina how groovy the US economy is. And, when you're done, take a stroll through LA's South Central and tell them because neither of them have gotten the news. Alias Are you an American? Yes, although since Bush became president, I don't make a big deal out of it. Those of us who are average Americans know differently than what you seem to think is the case. You couldn't be more wrong. How so? BTW, what does the number of criminals in jail have to do with the strength of our economy. You're kidding, right? Those people could be rehabilitated and/or never given such draconian long sentences and be reinserted into society as tax paying citizens, of course! What are you smoking? Can you address the issues or only hurl mocking insults? Alias |
#63
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
"Tx2" wrote in message
T... XP works perfectly for me, but I will eventually get round to setting up a Linux box when I have time and can be bothered to ****-arse around with configuring it. Think you'll find that current releases of (say) Ubuntu and PCLinuxOS just "work out of the box" and need no more configuring than XP does.....in fact my experience is that an install of either of those is actually EASIER and FASTER than XP, AND that includes a fully-functioning office suite. You have to a) buy Office and b) install it after the XP install... |
#64
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
Gordon wrote:
According to this BBC page http://www.microsoft.com/uk/press/executives/ users in the Uk are going to be ripped off yet again by being charged DOUBLE the prices charged in USA. Let's boycott Vista in the UK until this rip-off culture stops. PS - if anyone has an email address for the Sales Director of MS UK I would like to know so that I can ask him to comment on this. Gordon wrote: Sorry, wrong link! (don't know how that one got in there!) Link is: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6309651.stm Phisherman wrote: Worse than that, if you install it you'll find that your computer runs slower than with Windows XP. Rock wrote: I installed it, my computer runs great with it. Triple boot with XP. So there goes your contention. Lots of people installing it now with the public release. If what you said were true as a matter of course, then people would be screaming that in the Vista newsgroups, but that's not happening. Depending on the hardware configuration, problems with the install, lack of drivers, your contention is true for some systems, but not as a general rule. But then there were people saying that XP would be a disaster too. When you make a blanket statement like that, without any credible substantiation (and there can't be any in this case because your statement is in fact not true) all you do is show a bias and lack of knowledge. Frank wrote: I installed it on a test machine and it is SLOOOW. A pretty standard box. 2 Ghz Celeron, 512 MB DDR RAM, 7200 RPM 40 Gb hard drive, 8x nvidia 128 MB, DVD, CD-RW. SLOOOOW and no useful upgrades. Gordon wrote: Isn't a GB of RAM the recommended minimum? Leythos wrote: Everything I've read shows that it's slow on 512MB no matter how fast the CPU. 1GB seems to be the minimum like 256MB is the Min for XP. In Windows XP Basics newsgroup only (not cross-posted)... (Real or not - who knows - but surprisingly little activity on it..) Enigmatic wrote: I contacted Microsoft about this and the reply was as follows: "Dear Sir/Madam, Thank you for your email concerning price differences for Windows Vista between the US and the UK. In response to your query, I can confirm that the U.S will usually be cheaper owing to the following reasons: U.S resellers, particularly online ones may be able to sell the product at a lower price owing to them taking a reduction in their margins. They can normally do this more than resellers in smaller countries due to the economies of scale of selling to a larger customer base. I should point out at this stage, that as a result of EU regulations we cannot set prices ourselves. Taxation, which can be substantially lower in the U.S than the U.K. Operation costs such as distribution and manufacturing can be significantly lower in the U.S owing to the same economies of scale as mentioned above. Different Microsoft regional offices can offer promotions and discounts to resellers and consumers that are specific to their own region. Microsoft UK and Microsoft Europe will quite often offer such promotions that are not applicable to our U.S customers. Finally, the differences in price can also vary with the currency exchange rate between the U.S and the U.K. I hope this information has answered your query, but if you have any more questions please give us a call on 0870 60 10 100. Our lines are open from 8.00am to 6.00pm, Monday to Friday. Telephone traffic is at its lowest early in the morning. Of course if you prefer please send me an email. Many thanks for contacting us. Kind Regards, MAMATHA DALEER Customer Service Professional Microsoft Customer Services There you go, folks. Robin Depending on who you are and what you wanted to do with Windows XP/Windows Vista... All those minimum spec Windows (XP or Vista) compatible computers started out outdated. "Minimum" System Requirements for Windows XP: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314865/ "Minimum" System Requirements for Windows Vista: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvist...uirements.mspx "Realistic" System Requirements for Windows XP (IMHO)... My suggested hardware requirements for Windows XP are (IMHO): .. 1-gigahertz (GHz) processor or faster .. At least 512 megabytes (MB) of RAM (1+GB is recommended) .. At least 30 gigabytes (GB) of available space on the hard disk (40+GB recommended) .. 64+MB Video Card .. Other basic system components as needed/desired by the end-user... "Realistic" System Requirements for Windows Vista (IMHO)... My suggested hardware requirements for Windows Vista a .. 2.4-gigahertz (GHz) processor or faster .. At least 1 gigabyte (GB) of RAM (1.5+GB is recommended) .. At least 60 gigabytes (GB) of available space on the hard disk (100+GB recommended) .. 128+MB Video Card .. Other basic system components as needed/desired by the end-user... Why the difference? Experience with the operating systems with all sorts of users. Sure - there are many users who could do with MUCH less than what I suggest - there might even be one or two out there who can deal with the actual minimums - although, those people are very few and far-between now. If you want a semi-decent experience with all the bells and whistles everyone else gets to see though - so that if you grow, your computer doesn't have to *too much* - I'd go with my suggested requirements instead. Other opinions *will* differ. -- Shenan Stanley MS-MVP -- How To Ask Questions The Smart Way http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html |
#65
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
BTW, what does the number of criminals in jail have to do with the
strength of our economy. Working people commit far fewer crimes than jobless people. |
#66
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
JohnO wrote:
BTW, what does the number of criminals in jail have to do with the strength of our economy. Working people commit far fewer crimes than jobless people. Except, of course, Bush and Cheney's good old boys at Enron. Alias |
#67
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
It would seem to me that the question one has to ask is whether the
letter is a forgery or written by a simpleton? ~~~~ Gerry ~~~~~~~~ Enquire, plan and execute. Stourport, England ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Enigmatic wrote: - Show quoted text - I contacted Microsoft about this and the reply was as follows: "Dear Sir/Madam, Thank you for your email concerning price differences for Windows Vistaâ,,¢ between the US and the UK. In response to your query, I can confirm that the U.S will usually be cheaper owing to the following reasons: U.S resellers, particularly online ones may be able to sell the product at a lower price owing to them taking a reduction in their margins. They can normally do this more than resellers in smaller countries due to the economies of scale of selling to a larger customer base. I should point out at this stage, that as a result of EU regulations we cannot set prices ourselves. Taxation, which can be substantially lower in the U.S than the U.K. Operation costs such as distribution and manufacturing can be significantly lower in the U.S owing to the same economies of scale as mentioned above. Different Microsoft regional offices can offer promotions and discounts to resellers and consumers that are specific to their own region. Microsoft UK and Microsoft Europe will quite often offer such promotions that are not applicable to our U.S customers. Finally, the differences in price can also vary with the currency exchange rate between the U.S and the U.K. I hope this information has answered your query, but if you have any more questions please give us a call on 0870 60 10 100. Our lines are open from 8.00am to 6.00pm, Monday to Friday. Telephone traffic is at its lowest early in the morning. Of course if you prefer please send me an email. Many thanks for contacting us. Kind Regards, MAMATHA DALEER Customer Service Professional Microsoft Customer Services" There you go, folks. Robin |
#68
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
Forgery or not, I cannot answer; however, the Microsoft reply gives
legitimate marketing/operating reasons which are true in most regions and countries. -- Gene K "Gerry Cornell" wrote in message ... It would seem to me that the question one has to ask is whether the letter is a forgery or written by a simpleton? ~~~~ Gerry ~~~~~~~~ Enquire, plan and execute. Stourport, England ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Enigmatic wrote: - Show quoted text - I contacted Microsoft about this and the reply was as follows: "Dear Sir/Madam, Thank you for your email concerning price differences for Windows Vistaâ,,¢ between the US and the UK. In response to your query, I can confirm that the U.S will usually be cheaper owing to the following reasons: U.S resellers, particularly online ones may be able to sell the product at a lower price owing to them taking a reduction in their margins. They can normally do this more than resellers in smaller countries due to the economies of scale of selling to a larger customer base. I should point out at this stage, that as a result of EU regulations we cannot set prices ourselves. Taxation, which can be substantially lower in the U.S than the U.K. Operation costs such as distribution and manufacturing can be significantly lower in the U.S owing to the same economies of scale as mentioned above. Different Microsoft regional offices can offer promotions and discounts to resellers and consumers that are specific to their own region. Microsoft UK and Microsoft Europe will quite often offer such promotions that are not applicable to our U.S customers. Finally, the differences in price can also vary with the currency exchange rate between the U.S and the U.K. I hope this information has answered your query, but if you have any more questions please give us a call on 0870 60 10 100. Our lines are open from 8.00am to 6.00pm, Monday to Friday. Telephone traffic is at its lowest early in the morning. Of course if you prefer please send me an email. Many thanks for contacting us. Kind Regards, MAMATHA DALEER Customer Service Professional Microsoft Customer Services" There you go, folks. Robin |
#69
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
Gene
What is spin by Microsoft or true in reality? The letter implies that the market is less competitive in the rest of the world than in the US. However, the UK is an extremely competitive economy and to assert that other economies are all less competitive is to simplify the situation to such a degree as to make the assertion meaningless and misleading. Conclusion less competitive market is spin by Microsoft to deflect criticism from Microsoft and to conceal the real reason. The price at which resellers are able to sell is primarily governed by the price at which they can buy. If the person ( in this case Microsoft restrict the supply ) to a limited number of resellers or offer particular resellers preferential terms then this will have a more material impact on retail prices in a local market than resellers margins. Control of price in a primitive market will be more easily achieved than in a sophisticated one such as the UK. Conclusion resellers margins is spin by Microsoft to deflect criticism from Microsoft and to conceal the real reason. Economies of scale achieved through selling to a larger customer base in the US than in a smaller country. A major cost factor will be research and development. If Microsoft were to withdraw from the world market and only sell in the US market would the cost per unit sold go up or down? The customer base argument only applies to local costs, which are only a fraction of the total cost outside of the US. Microsoft are not selling a bulky product e.g a motor car, where distribution and storage costs may be significant. It is a small high tech product! Economies of scale are achieved by having a large customers base; the geographical spread of that customer base, given that Microsoft have a universal market for their product, is unlikely to account for a significant price differential. One would expect to see a significant increase in unit cost were Microsoft to restrict sales to the US market. Conclusion economies of scale is spin by Microsoft to deflect criticism from Microsoft and to conceal the real reason. EU Regulations do not allow a manufacturer to fix retail prices so to that extent the Microsoft statement is true where they are selling through a third party. As, however, stated previously the price paid by local resellers is determined by Microsoft, not by EU Regulations, so for Microsoft to say "we cannot set prices ourselves" is disingenuous ( lacking candour ). In other words it is spin! Taxation does affect resale prices. For comparable years, taxation in the US has been reported as 29.6% of gross domestic product compared to 37.4% in the UK. Tax on goods and services is higher in the UK than in the US. However, given that only 15% of the UK inclusive of VAT price is tax compared to the US local sales tax, whatever that might be, it hardly accounts for the retail price differential between the two countries. Advancing local Microsoft promotional discounts is a two edged sword. Fine for those who get them and infuriating for those who do not get discount. If Microsoft are advancing this as a material reason for price differentials then they are inviting further investigations by the authorities for abusing their position as a monopoly supplier. Exchange rates. Another red herring! Recently the rate of exchange between the US Dollar and £ Sterling has moved against the US Dollar so one would expect the price paid for US goods and services bought by the UK to fall. This does not seem to be happening. Quite the reverse is the impression gained so the reason for the price differential would seem to be something else! In dissecting the arguments in the letter I am now reaching the conclusion that the letter is entirely spin. -- ~~~~ Gerry ~~~~~~~~ Enquire, plan and execute. Stourport, England ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Forgery or not, I cannot answer; however, the Microsoft reply gives legitimate marketing/operating reasons which are true in most regions and countries. Enigmatic wrote: - Show quoted text - I contacted Microsoft about this and the reply was as follows: "Dear Sir/Madam, Thank you for your email concerning price differences for Windows Vistaâ,,¢ between the US and the UK. In response to your query, I can confirm that the U.S will usually be cheaper owing to the following reasons: U.S resellers, particularly online ones may be able to sell the product at a lower price owing to them taking a reduction in their margins. They can normally do this more than resellers in smaller countries due to the economies of scale of selling to a larger customer base. I should point out at this stage, that as a result of EU regulations we cannot set prices ourselves. Taxation, which can be substantially lower in the U.S than the U.K. Operation costs such as distribution and manufacturing can be significantly lower in the U.S owing to the same economies of scale as mentioned above. Different Microsoft regional offices can offer promotions and discounts to resellers and consumers that are specific to their own region. Microsoft UK and Microsoft Europe will quite often offer such promotions that are not applicable to our U.S customers. Finally, the differences in price can also vary with the currency exchange rate between the U.S and the U.K. I hope this information has answered your query, but if you have any more questions please give us a call on 0870 60 10 100. Our lines are open from 8.00am to 6.00pm, Monday to Friday. Telephone traffic is at its lowest early in the morning. Of course if you prefer please send me an email. Many thanks for contacting us. Kind Regards, MAMATHA DALEER Customer Service Professional Microsoft Customer Services" There you go, folks. Robin |
#70
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
Gerry
Whatever you do, don't blame the British retailers.. bless their little souls, they are only trying to make an honest living.. and they have been doing that since time immemorial, screwing the British public for every last penny for all they are worth, knowing damn well that the average Brit can't cross a national border easily to get a better deal.. All prices in North America do NOT include federal or state/provincial taxes, unlike the UK where, unless one is a middleman, ALL prices include ALL taxes.. if you see a product in your local PC World or wherever, the price shown is what you will expect to pay.. here in Canada, to buy a $499 dollar Vista Ultimate, you would have to finally pay nearer $600 depending upon province.. Re economies of scale, the North American market is HUGE.. even Macs sell in large numbers, way surpassing the 5 user customer base in the UK (two in Croydon and three suspected Mac users out in the UK wilds (all wanted for questioning re gross stupidity).. towns with only 10000 inhabitants, large by Canadian standards (96% of Canadian place names have a population of 300 or less people), have as many as five retailers all selling computers.. UK residents have zero idea of the economies of scale here in North America.. this is a 'throw away' society, and goods are priced by the retailers accordingly.. Re. pricing to retailers, there has always been a discount for bulk purchases.. all manufacturers do it, whether producing software, cigarettes or candy.. unfair on the small operation? yes of course it is, but when you go into a store, do you not ask for a discount if buying more than a few products at one time? I have known Brits that do, and who expect a discount.. I really can't believe what the problem is with MS and pricing.. why do people expect to get the top Vista for nothing? would these same people go into a BMW auto dealership and complain that they need some of the features of a 7 series car but object and cry 'unfair' to the $80,000 price tag? no, of course not.. if they want a BMW, they buy one within their means and accept the limitations or go look for some other product that more meets their needs.. "Gerry Cornell" wrote in message ... Gene What is spin by Microsoft or true in reality? The letter implies that the market is less competitive in the rest of the world than in the US. However, the UK is an extremely competitive economy and to assert that other economies are all less competitive is to simplify the situation to such a degree as to make the assertion meaningless and misleading. Conclusion less competitive market is spin by Microsoft to deflect criticism from Microsoft and to conceal the real reason. The price at which resellers are able to sell is primarily governed by the price at which they can buy. If the person ( in this case Microsoft restrict the supply ) to a limited number of resellers or offer particular resellers preferential terms then this will have a more material impact on retail prices in a local market than resellers margins. Control of price in a primitive market will be more easily achieved than in a sophisticated one such as the UK. Conclusion resellers margins is spin by Microsoft to deflect criticism from Microsoft and to conceal the real reason. Economies of scale achieved through selling to a larger customer base in the US than in a smaller country. A major cost factor will be research and development. If Microsoft were to withdraw from the world market and only sell in the US market would the cost per unit sold go up or down? The customer base argument only applies to local costs, which are only a fraction of the total cost outside of the US. Microsoft are not selling a bulky product e.g a motor car, where distribution and storage costs may be significant. It is a small high tech product! Economies of scale are achieved by having a large customers base; the geographical spread of that customer base, given that Microsoft have a universal market for their product, is unlikely to account for a significant price differential. One would expect to see a significant increase in unit cost were Microsoft to restrict sales to the US market. Conclusion economies of scale is spin by Microsoft to deflect criticism from Microsoft and to conceal the real reason. EU Regulations do not allow a manufacturer to fix retail prices so to that extent the Microsoft statement is true where they are selling through a third party. As, however, stated previously the price paid by local resellers is determined by Microsoft, not by EU Regulations, so for Microsoft to say "we cannot set prices ourselves" is disingenuous ( lacking candour ). In other words it is spin! Taxation does affect resale prices. For comparable years, taxation in the US has been reported as 29.6% of gross domestic product compared to 37.4% in the UK. Tax on goods and services is higher in the UK than in the US. However, given that only 15% of the UK inclusive of VAT price is tax compared to the US local sales tax, whatever that might be, it hardly accounts for the retail price differential between the two countries. Advancing local Microsoft promotional discounts is a two edged sword. Fine for those who get them and infuriating for those who do not get discount. If Microsoft are advancing this as a material reason for price differentials then they are inviting further investigations by the authorities for abusing their position as a monopoly supplier. Exchange rates. Another red herring! Recently the rate of exchange between the US Dollar and £ Sterling has moved against the US Dollar so one would expect the price paid for US goods and services bought by the UK to fall. This does not seem to be happening. Quite the reverse is the impression gained so the reason for the price differential would seem to be something else! In dissecting the arguments in the letter I am now reaching the conclusion that the letter is entirely spin. -- ~~~~ Gerry ~~~~~~~~ Enquire, plan and execute. Stourport, England ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Forgery or not, I cannot answer; however, the Microsoft reply gives legitimate marketing/operating reasons which are true in most regions and countries. Enigmatic wrote: - Show quoted text - I contacted Microsoft about this and the reply was as follows: "Dear Sir/Madam, Thank you for your email concerning price differences for Windows Vistaâ,,¢ between the US and the UK. In response to your query, I can confirm that the U.S will usually be cheaper owing to the following reasons: U.S resellers, particularly online ones may be able to sell the product at a lower price owing to them taking a reduction in their margins. They can normally do this more than resellers in smaller countries due to the economies of scale of selling to a larger customer base. I should point out at this stage, that as a result of EU regulations we cannot set prices ourselves. Taxation, which can be substantially lower in the U.S than the U.K. Operation costs such as distribution and manufacturing can be significantly lower in the U.S owing to the same economies of scale as mentioned above. Different Microsoft regional offices can offer promotions and discounts to resellers and consumers that are specific to their own region. Microsoft UK and Microsoft Europe will quite often offer such promotions that are not applicable to our U.S customers. Finally, the differences in price can also vary with the currency exchange rate between the U.S and the U.K. I hope this information has answered your query, but if you have any more questions please give us a call on 0870 60 10 100. Our lines are open from 8.00am to 6.00pm, Monday to Friday. Telephone traffic is at its lowest early in the morning. Of course if you prefer please send me an email. Many thanks for contacting us. Kind Regards, MAMATHA DALEER Customer Service Professional Microsoft Customer Services" There you go, folks. Robin |
#71
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
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#72
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User wrote:
I really can't believe what the problem is with MS and pricing.. why do people expect to get the top Vista for nothing? No one said that they wanted it for nothing. The starting information for this thread was that Vista Ultimate would be priced at about US$378.99 in the United states and at £369.99 in the UK. (Amazon numbers supplied by Shenan) US378.99 = 192.52 U.K. pounds Add the 17.5% VAT that another poster mentioned (£33.69)and the final straight converted advertised price would be £226.21 VAT included. The spread of £143.78 ($283.03 US dollars) cannot be simply explained with shipping costs or that the the UK economy is that much more inefficient than the US or that the UK market is that uncompetitive. It isn't mere spin or simple BS from Microsoft... it's more to the PhD level... BS that is just Piled Higher and Deeper! John |
#74
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
John
Brit price with no tax is UKBP315 against US$379.. Tax rates in the US range between 4 and 9%, I believe, and into double figures in Ontario and Quebec in Canada, 14 and 16% respectively Profit margins are smaller in North America generally, and none of us have any idea how much is paid by the retailers on either continent.. the fact that the Brit price is so high in the UK does not necessarily reflect the price paid from the manufacturer.. The UK, along with one or two other member countries, have failed to adopt the Euro as regular currency, and as such is prone to varying exchange rates in a way that other member countries may not be.. While I accept that the price difference is large, it is not right to quote a price without tax against a price with tax, especially where the tax rate is so high as in the UK.. Something else that is not taken into account is UK import duty for goods manufactured from outside of the EU.. that can range from between 5 and 85%.. Then there are shipping, handling and insurance costs.. I fail to see why MS are being blamed for all of this.. "John John" wrote in message ... Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User wrote: I really can't believe what the problem is with MS and pricing.. why do people expect to get the top Vista for nothing? No one said that they wanted it for nothing. The starting information for this thread was that Vista Ultimate would be priced at about US$378.99 in the United states and at £369.99 in the UK. (Amazon numbers supplied by Shenan) US378.99 = 192.52 U.K. pounds Add the 17.5% VAT that another poster mentioned (£33.69)and the final straight converted advertised price would be £226.21 VAT included. The spread of £143.78 ($283.03 US dollars) cannot be simply explained with shipping costs or that the the UK economy is that much more inefficient than the US or that the UK market is that uncompetitive. It isn't mere spin or simple BS from Microsoft... it's more to the PhD level... BS that is just Piled Higher and Deeper! John |
#75
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User wrote:
the twenty miles of sea between the UK and Europe has been good to "Between"? That's odd. I had always though the UK was in Europe. ;-) -- Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User Please reply to the newsgroup |
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