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#91
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! Windows 7 Sucks
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
: I can't see any new OS taking off in the real world: it'd have to run Windows and/or Mac applications or not enough people would buy it for it to be anything but a novelty for geeks. Like Linux ? (Don't let *them* hear you say that...wait, that was me that said that. I run Linux too, 1/2 the time.) As a desktop OS, Linux is comletely useable now, for a I don't doubt that it is - or rather, the Linux enthusiasts have been telling me so for many years now, and I'm inclined to believe them. (Have you tried a Live CD ? I'd suggest Kubuntu) The fact remains, however, that if an ordinary member of the public, here in UK and I suspect in US, decides to buy a computer from virtually any of the high/main street usual suspects, and a pretty high proportion of online retailers, he will not be offered a Linux-based one. Correct. Dell was selling Ubuntu boxs for a while. Maybe if you deal with private computer shops, they may offer a Linux box. Linux may *never* take hold based solely on the 'great' philosophy of FOSS. There is no incentive (money) to invest gobs and gobs of time and effort.....and money. And then, at any point in time, if someone has a spat, or their views differ, that can just 'fork' of the s/w and produce their own. That is *exactly* what happened with OpenOffice, and why there is now Libre Office. *typical home user*, except that 1) you need to make sure the So the "typical home user" - who just buys the computer, and probably some software - is unlikely to (have the opportunity to) actually find out. hardware will work, and two, 2) you'd need to learn new Well, with a couple of the more friendly distros, it's not really a problem with the actual PC hardware, but instead, peripherals plugged into the PC. Printer support for one. Canon supports Linux for ALL their printers. Other companies have limited, or no support. Hmm ... now you're unpicking my support. To go cars again, even if I buy something exotic like a hydrogen-powered one, I would expect not to have to worry about whether it works or not, only where I'm going to find the fuel stations. troubleshooting and repair techniques, 3) some of your s/w would need to be replaced, which would require some investment in time to familiarize yourself with it. *Some* of the most common home user apps are produced for Linux and Windows, Firefox and Thunderbird spring to mind immediately. Dropbox, Skype (although the Linux version really does s*ck), Nero, OpenOffice/LibreOffice, GIMP, Filezilla, Opera, Pidgin. I think we're moving out of "common home user" here. I suppose I mean something like the 90% level (though I am pretty sure the proportion is in the higher nineties). I think you'll find - sadly! - that the majority of common users use Windows as OS, IE rather than Firefox as browser, WLM (or, these days, a web interface) for mail (and won't use newsnet at all - possibly using the odd forum), Office (or at least Word) for WP, and so on. Or the Mac equivalents for those with lots of money (or, and I think there probably _is_ something in it, who want even less hassle). [] I *may* be moving away, but, I wasn't really thinking by ways of the actual piece of s/w to do whatever task, but only that there is s/w available. Like the browsers I mentioned, or there's Open Office, a multitude of e-mail programs, etc. .....here's what I always try to get across to people....they all work the same way. If you know how to use Word, you know how to use OO/LO Writer, or AbiWord, or Word Perfect, etc. They all have the same UI, same menus, same features.(Yes, small differences, so I should have said equivalent, but basic usage is identical.) .....so it's not really a matter of having to relearn everything you know to switch packages..... ....let's look a NL video editors....MS MovieMaker, Adobe Premiere, Sony Vegas, Pinnacle Studio, ULead Videostudio, etc. All different s/w packages to do the same thing, form different vendors, yet the majority of using each is the same. They all let you create a project, they all have a media 'library' to choose from. In all of them, you drag-n-drop video clips from teh library into the timeline, trim/crop, add effects to tracks, add audio tracks, titling, etc. It's not the actual program itself, but the concepts of what you are doing that are important. You can edit/render video in the free Movie Maker, the same way you edit/render video in an expensive Adobe Premiere. (Of course, Premiere has more features, but the concept is identical.) SNIP a whole bunch of stuff we mostly agree about (However, let me tell you how the 'typical' PC users that I know works...."Dan, the printer stopped working, can you fix it"...."Dan, can you install this for me"..."Dan, I keep getting this error...."...etc.) But lethargy - and, the genuine time it takes to learn anything different, even if actually better - gave M. time to develop 7, which - even if it is just Vista with a lot of the bugs (including in just how it works) fixed, and that saved them. (Along with some pretty heavy advertising.) Yes. And 7 was vastly improved over Vista (gold release anyway) and is being accepted. (PS- John...this is the most intelligent debate/discussion I've had on Usenet in at least 6 months. Thank you.) |
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#92
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! Windows 7 Sucks
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
: In message 31, DanS writes: "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in : still admire compact code, though, and feel it runs both faster and more reliably. Like "flamer", a little utility I have which simulates flames on the screen, in 453 bytes ... [my copy of the file is dated 1995, though I think the original is older than that].) This is intersting. Do you have source, or just the program ? Sorry, only the executable. (I think it's a .com rather than a .exe! I think it runs in something like CGA - you can certainly see the pixels - though it runs under DOS, 9x, and XP [though full-screen on all]; I haven't tried it on 7.) And with a name like that, it's impossible to google for. CGA ? That wouldn't be good anyway.... Just guessing; it runs in full screen mode (not surprising), and when it's running I can see that its resolution is limited (I can see the little squares the flames are made up of). But it switches to it from whatever (VGA, SVGA, etc.) mode you're using, and you get your original screen back when you stop it. And yes, and Googling for "flamer", even with a binch of other qualifying words, was futile. "BUNCH" even. Is your email valid if I take all the dots out (apart from the one before the c)? It *is* valid if all the dots are removed except for the one before the 'c'. |
#93
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! Windows 7 Sucks
In message 31, DanS
writes: "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in : [] As a desktop OS, Linux is comletely useable now, for a I don't doubt that it is - or rather, the Linux enthusiasts have been telling me so for many years now, and I'm inclined to believe them. (Have you tried a Live CD ? I'd suggest Kubuntu) (No: I don't have the time, that's all.) The fact remains, however, that if an ordinary member of the public, here in UK and I suspect in US, decides to buy a computer from virtually any of the high/main street usual suspects, and a pretty high proportion of online retailers, he will not be offered a Linux-based one. Correct. Dell was selling Ubuntu boxs for a while. Maybe if Yes, I remember that. Wonder why they stopped: I _hope_ it wasn't pressure from M$. you deal with private computer shops, they may offer a Linux box. Yes, certainly, I think if someone goes to one and says "build me a computer", they're _very_ likely to be offered that choice. (Apart from anything else, M$'s marketing/pricing strategy has - IMO - more or less killed home assembly anyway, at least of Windows machines.) Linux may *never* take hold based solely on the 'great' philosophy of FOSS. There is no incentive (money) to invest gobs and gobs of time and effort.....and money. And then, at any point in time, if someone has a spat, or their views differ, that can just 'fork' of the s/w and produce their own. That is *exactly* what happened with OpenOffice, and why there is now Libre Office. (Ah, I'd noticed mention of that: I'd thought maybe it was something for Mac.) [] ....here's what I always try to get across to people....they all work the same way. If you know how to use Word, you know how to use OO/LO Writer, or AbiWord, or Word Perfect, etc. They all have the same UI, same menus, same features.(Yes, small differences, so I should have said equivalent, but basic usage is identical.) But I think a significant proportion of "standard users" just don't even know they exist at all. ....so it's not really a matter of having to relearn everything you know to switch packages..... ...let's look a NL video editors....MS MovieMaker, Adobe Premiere, Sony Vegas, Pinnacle Studio, ULead Videostudio, etc. All different s/w packages to do the same thing, form different vendors, yet the majority of using each is the same. They all let you create a project, they all have a media 'library' to choose from. In all of them, you drag-n-drop video clips from teh library into the timeline, trim/crop, add effects to tracks, add audio tracks, titling, etc. All sounds _way_ too complicated for my "standard user" - who I suspect does no more than his equivalent did ten years ago: email, web, a bit of word-processing (to write the odd letter), and media playing. Granted, his/her web access and media playing probably include more video than they used to. But I suspect a lot of them don't edit video, or even audio. [] (However, let me tell you how the 'typical' PC users that I know works...."Dan, the printer stopped working, can you fix it"...."Dan, can you install this for me"..."Dan, I keep getting this error...."...etc.) Yup (-:. I've been tempted by those "no, I _won't_ fix your computer" T-shirts, but (as well as not wearing T-shirts because they don't have a pocket!) I _do_ continue to do so because I enjoy it. Including the "teaching" that is involved. OK, it can be depressing when most of it goes in one ear and ..., but it is so rewarding when something sticks, and you see them doing unaided something you've been teaching them. I think my most satisfying "pupil" is an old chap - a printer, from the hot metal days - who is very slow to learn anything, but - over several years - I have got him to the point where he's gradually converting his record and cassette collection to CDs, all on a Windows 98 system (which is more than adequate for the purpose). [] Yes. And 7 was vastly improved over Vista (gold release anyway) and is being accepted. It very much is being accepted. Since I tend to hang back and watch the fun, I have observed each new Windows' arrival with interest: the cries of delight at things that had been fixed, and of anguish at things that had been changed for no (or no _obvious_ to the masses) good reason, and the twitterings (positive and negative) of those for whom it was their first encounter with computing at all. But when 7 came in, I was overwhelmed by the silence: quite unnerving in a way. Of course, some of that is because computing in general is so much more a part of life and not a novelty any more, but the lack of comment did startle me. (PS- John...this is the most intelligent debate/discussion I've had on Usenet in at least 6 months. Thank you.) Beam! Thanks. Usenet can be enjoyable! (I've been using it since I dialled up with my DOS machine using modified KA9Q!) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf .... his charming, bumbling best, a serial monogamist terrified of commitment, who comes across as a sort of Bertie Wooster but with a measurable IQ. - Barry Norman on Hugh Grant's persona in certain films, Radio Times 3-9 July 2010 |
#94
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! Windows 7 Sucks
On 12/02/2011, DanS posted:
Gene E. Bloch wrote in : On 12/02/2011, DanS posted: And now with the whole HP printer exploit that's in the news, who knows what's going to go on with printing technologies...maybe there wil be a push just back to dumb peripherals for most. News to me. I plead ignorance here and I must check this out. http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/29/9076395- exclusive-millions-of-printers-open-to-devastating-hack- attack-researchers-say One quote from the article: "In that demonstration, a thermal switch shut the printer down – basically, causing it to self-destruct". That tends to destroy the article's credibility for me. In reality, thermal switches, like fuses, *prevent* self-destruction... But that was probably written by the reporter, and he may have been confused. Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the exploit can take control of me and cause me to obtain CIA documents & carry them to the printer so they could "...use a hijacked printer as a copy machine for criminals, making it easy to commit identity theft or even take control of entire networks that would otherwise be secure", or cause me to carry copied documents to the post office and mail them to Petrograd. I'm not sure.....although, if you have a large size commercial HP printer/copier, similar tot he one at work which is a Minolta, not an HP.....it could be one that has a hard drive on it that stores things it copies and print, basically forever, until it's overwritten or purposely erased, usually through some obscure front panel sequence. It was a big to-do here, when the city's leased peripherals were traded in, with city document still on them, on the HD. These could have been just copiers however, but the possibility stil remains. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...gnews/main6412 439.shtml You didn't address my real question, so I'll requote it below: "Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the exploit can take control of me and cause me to obtain CIA documents & carry them to the printer". -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#95
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! Windows 7 Sucks
On 12/03/2011, DanS posted:
(I know, not a truly valid analogy, since the cars don't need to interop with other cars, but still.) Does that mean I can cancel my collision insurance? Just asking... While I'm here, I do find this an interesting thread, but it seems like on some level I can manage agree with hardly *anybody*. The result is that I can't really contribute meaningfully to the thread (beyond the occasional pun). -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#96
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! Windows 7 Sucks
On 12/03/2011, Char Jackson posted:
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 20:53:17 +0000, Loonie wrote: If I had the chance again, I would certainly NOT have gone for Win 7. I support the notion that Win 7 SUCKS!!!!!!!! I think it's safe to say that most of us aren't having any serious problems with it. Yes, there are a few minor annoyances, but overall it works just fine. That's certainly been my experience. What problems are you having? This question is for Loonie, so I'll go away now. -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#97
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! Windows 7 Sucks
Gene E. Bloch wrote in
: On 12/02/2011, DanS posted: Gene E. Bloch wrote in : On 12/02/2011, DanS posted: And now with the whole HP printer exploit that's in the news, who knows what's going to go on with printing technologies...maybe there wil be a push just back to dumb peripherals for most. News to me. I plead ignorance here and I must check this out. http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/29/9076395- exclusive-millions-of-printers-open-to-devastating-hack- attack-researchers-say One quote from the article: "In that demonstration, a thermal switch shut the printer down – basically, causing it to self-destruct". That tends to destroy the article's credibility for me. In reality, thermal switches, like fuses, *prevent* self-destruction... But that was probably written by the reporter, and he may have been confused. Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the exploit can take control of me and cause me to obtain CIA documents & carry them to the printer so they could "...use a hijacked printer as a copy machine for criminals, making it easy to commit identity theft or even take control of entire networks that would otherwise be secure", or cause me to carry copied documents to the post office and mail them to Petrograd. I'm not sure.....although, if you have a large size commercial HP printer/copier, similar tot he one at work which is a Minolta, not an HP.....it could be one that has a hard drive on it that stores things it copies and print, basically forever, until it's overwritten or purposely erased, usually through some obscure front panel sequence. It was a big to-do here, when the city's leased peripherals were traded in, with city document still on them, on the HD. These could have been just copiers however, but the possibility stil remains. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...ningnews/main6 412 439.shtml You didn't address my real question, so I'll requote it below: "Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the exploit can take control of me and cause me to obtain CIA documents & carry them to the printer". *I've* been trying to figure out how you got anything about mind control or the CIA out of that article. (I laughed off that question as outlandish, bizarre, and over- the-top.) |
#98
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! Windows 7 Sucks
On 06/12/2011 7:27 AM, DanS wrote:
Gene Wrote: You didn't address my real question, so I'll requote it below: "Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the exploit can take control of me and cause me to obtain CIA documents& carry them to the printer". *I've* been trying to figure out how you got anything about mind control or the CIA out of that article. (I laughed off that question as outlandish, bizarre, and over- the-top.) Gene was doing satire. Wolf K. |
#99
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! Windows 7 Sucks
On 12/06/2011, DanS posted:
Gene E. Bloch wrote in : On 12/02/2011, DanS posted: Gene E. Bloch wrote in : On 12/02/2011, DanS posted: And now with the whole HP printer exploit that's in the news, who knows what's going to go on with printing technologies...maybe there wil be a push just back to dumb peripherals for most. News to me. I plead ignorance here and I must check this out. http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/29/9076395- exclusive-millions-of-printers-open-to-devastating-hack- attack-researchers-say One quote from the article: "In that demonstration, a thermal switch shut the printer down – basically, causing it to self-destruct". That tends to destroy the article's credibility for me. In reality, thermal switches, like fuses, *prevent* self-destruction... But that was probably written by the reporter, and he may have been confused. Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the exploit can take control of me and cause me to obtain CIA documents & carry them to the printer so they could "...use a hijacked printer as a copy machine for criminals, making it easy to commit identity theft or even take control of entire networks that would otherwise be secure", or cause me to carry copied documents to the post office and mail them to Petrograd. I'm not sure.....although, if you have a large size commercial HP printer/copier, similar tot he one at work which is a Minolta, not an HP.....it could be one that has a hard drive on it that stores things it copies and print, basically forever, until it's overwritten or purposely erased, usually through some obscure front panel sequence. It was a big to-do here, when the city's leased peripherals were traded in, with city document still on them, on the HD. These could have been just copiers however, but the possibility stil remains. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...ningnews/main6 412 439.shtml You didn't address my real question, so I'll requote it below: "Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the exploit can take control of me and cause me to obtain CIA documents & carry them to the printer". *I've* been trying to figure out how you got anything about mind control or the CIA out of that article. (I laughed off that question as outlandish, bizarre, and over- the-top.) Perhaps you failed to notice sentences such as these in the article: In paragraph one: "Or use a hijacked printer as a copy machine for criminals, making it easy to commit identity theft or even take control of entire networks that would otherwise be secure?" In paragraph three: "Printers can be remotely controlled by computer criminals over the Internet, with the potential to steal personal information, attack otherwise secure networks and even cause physical damage, the researchers argue..." Things that, in my opinion, would require me to go to the printer or copier and perform certain acts at the behest of the criminals. -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#100
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! Windows 7 Sucks
On 12/06/2011, Wolf K posted:
On 06/12/2011 7:27 AM, DanS wrote: Gene Wrote: You didn't address my real question, so I'll requote it below: "Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the exploit can take control of me and cause me to obtain CIA documents& carry them to the printer". *I've* been trying to figure out how you got anything about mind control or the CIA out of that article. (I laughed off that question as outlandish, bizarre, and over- the-top.) Gene was doing satire. Wolf K. Not really. See my reply to DanS a couple of hours after yours. I certainly expressed it satirically, but it was meant seriously as a way of rebutting the article. Besides, I've recently had my tinfoil hat refurbished, so I feel safe now :-) -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#101
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! Windows 7 Sucks
On 11/29/2011 08:55 AM, Microsoft Rippoff wrote:
Windows 7 is the new Windows ME. IE9 sucks really bad too. Windows 7 64-bit sucks even worse. Don't buy it. Insist on XP or Mac! Hope this helps. http://elrepo.org/people/ajb/troll_spray.jpg |
#102
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! Windows 7 Sucks
Gene E. Bloch wrote in
: On 12/06/2011, DanS posted: Gene E. Bloch wrote in : On 12/02/2011, DanS posted: Gene E. Bloch wrote in : On 12/02/2011, DanS posted: And now with the whole HP printer exploit that's in the news, who knows what's going to go on with printing technologies...maybe there wil be a push just back to dumb peripherals for most. News to me. I plead ignorance here and I must check this out. http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/29/9076395- exclusive-millions-of-printers-open-to-devastating-hack - attack-researchers-say One quote from the article: "In that demonstration, a thermal switch shut the printer down – basically, causing it to self-destruct". That tends to destroy the article's credibility for me. In reality, thermal switches, like fuses, *prevent* self-destruction... But that was probably written by the reporter, and he may have been confused. Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the exploit can take control of me and cause me to obtain CIA documents & carry them to the printer so they could "...use a hijacked printer as a copy machine for criminals, making it easy to commit identity theft or even take control of entire networks that would otherwise be secure", or cause me to carry copied documents to the post office and mail them to Petrograd. I'm not sure.....although, if you have a large size commercial HP printer/copier, similar tot he one at work which is a Minolta, not an HP.....it could be one that has a hard drive on it that stores things it copies and print, basically forever, until it's overwritten or purposely erased, usually through some obscure front panel sequence. It was a big to-do here, when the city's leased peripherals were traded in, with city document still on them, on the HD. These could have been just copiers however, but the possibility stil remains. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...veningnews/mai n6 412 439.shtml You didn't address my real question, so I'll requote it below: "Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the exploit can take control of me and cause me to obtain CIA documents & carry them to the printer". *I've* been trying to figure out how you got anything about mind control or the CIA out of that article. (I laughed off that question as outlandish, bizarre, and over- the-top.) Perhaps you failed to notice sentences such as these in the article: No, I read those. Many tech articles have ideas/concepts/claims that should be taken with a grain of salt. In paragraph one: "Or use a hijacked printer as a copy machine for criminals, making it easy to commit identity theft or even take control of entire networks that would otherwise be secure?" In paragraph three: "Printers can be remotely controlled by computer criminals over the Internet, with the potential to steal personal information, attack otherwise secure networks and even cause physical damage, the researchers argue..." Things that, in my opinion, would require me to go to the printer or copier and perform certain acts at the behest of the criminals. Or *someone* to copy something, and it be stored on the HD. Based on other replies, it's comletely possible to access/use/store the copier/printers HD, so if some malware/spyware got installed on a PC, why couldn't it access a printer/copier and send all stored documents somewhere ? Are there internet facing printers that you don't need to be 'in' the network to access ? That's the big question. |
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