Problem with Audio now

On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:28:16 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 25 May 2015 12:54:36 -0700, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

On Mon, 25 May 2015 14:50:49 -0400, wrote:


Egad. What a frustrating mess!
Thanks anyway
JW


Did you ever try to verify the audio hardware is working outside of
windows?



I have a second PC that is XP - the headphones and the speakers both
work on that machine.
I have a new PCI Express X1 sound board coming from China (ugh) in
about a month so they say. Maybe it will solve my woes.

Hope so.

Life shud not be this difficult.

Thanks

JW


It doo bother me tough, that it keeps telling me that a thing is not
plugged in, when it is. Sobeit.

JW

wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:28:16 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 25 May 2015 12:54:36 -0700, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

On Mon, 25 May 2015 14:50:49 -0400, wrote:


Egad. What a frustrating mess!
Thanks anyway
JW

Did you ever try to verify the audio hardware is working outside of
windows?


I have a second PC that is XP - the headphones and the speakers both
work on that machine.
I have a new PCI Express X1 sound board coming from China (ugh) in
about a month so they say. Maybe it will solve my woes.

Hope so.

Life shud not be this difficult.

Thanks

JW


It doo bother me tough, that it keeps telling me that a thing is not
plugged in, when it is. Sobeit.

JW

Have you made any recent changes to the front panel
Audio wiring ? Like changed cables, changed from AC'97
mode to HDAudio mode ? I don't think this is the issue,
since your stuff is more messed up than that.

Paul

On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:41:31 -0700, Stormin' Norman
wrote:


As it happens, I have a Live CD, and played with it a few years back.
I shud have tried that I guess.


I would download the latest Linux Mint or Ubuntu Live CD, just to be
on the safe side. It is not a 100% sure-fire diagnostic, but it has a
high probability of success.

Is the audio built into the main board or is it a separate sound card?
If it is a card, you can try shutting the machine off and moving it to
a different slot if you have one available. Then, fire up windows and
see what happens.

The best approach to diagnostics is to keep it simple and start at the
first stage. Making sure the hardware is functional is the most
logical first step.


My audio is built into the main board.

JW

On Mon, 25 May 2015 19:24:38 -0400, Paul wrote:


It doo bother me tough, that it keeps telling me that a thing is not
plugged in, when it is. Sobeit.

JW

Have you made any recent changes to the front panel
Audio wiring ? Like changed cables, changed from AC'97
mode to HDAudio mode ? I don't think this is the issue,
since your stuff is more messed up than that.

Paul


Yes and no. The MSI FM2-A85XA-G43 mobo has a 'front panel audio
connector' (so-called JAUD1), and the ROSEWILL case has a cable with
two connector ends, one labelled HDA, the other AC 97. I had always
used the former (for two years), but yesterday I made a try using the
latter, plus none at all. I still had no audio either way.

There are also two other mobo connectors, tagged JFP1 and JFP2 that
are said to be 'front panel connectors', which are not audio, but
connect to other front panel leds etc. I have not touched those.

Thanks

JW

wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2015 19:24:38 -0400, Paul wrote:


It doo bother me tough, that it keeps telling me that a thing is not
plugged in, when it is. Sobeit.

JW
Have you made any recent changes to the front panel
Audio wiring ? Like changed cables, changed from AC'97
mode to HDAudio mode ? I don't think this is the issue,
since your stuff is more messed up than that.

Paul


Yes and no. The MSI FM2-A85XA-G43 mobo has a 'front panel audio
connector' (so-called JAUD1), and the ROSEWILL case has a cable with
two connector ends, one labelled HDA, the other AC 97. I had always
used the former (for two years), but yesterday I made a try using the
latter, plus none at all. I still had no audio either way.

There are also two other mobo connectors, tagged JFP1 and JFP2 that
are said to be 'front panel connectors', which are not audio, but
connect to other front panel leds etc. I have not touched those.

Thanks

JW


JFP1 has the standard (HP-like) 2x4 arrangement of PowerSwitch,
ResetSwitch, PowerLED, and HDD_LED signals. Those are the
front panel control switches and indicator lights. The other
connector JFP2 has the case SPKR wires for making beep noises
during POST.

The JAUD1 is a dual definition header. Back when there was
AC'97, there was room for two jumper plugs, which provided
a continuity path for the green Speaker audio plug. The
AC'97 header definition was changed, so the need for jumpers
was removed. Which then leaves the difference between AC'97
front panel mode and HDAudio mode, the usage of SENSE_SEND
and the two other associated signals. The center and right-most
columns in this table, correspond to the capabilities of your
motherboard. If your case has the two audio cable types, then
you can match the settings in the computer, to the type of
audio cable you've connected. The only difference this should
make, is in whether the SENSE pins are used for their intended
purpose. If there was a problem here, it would be limited to
the Front Panel audio. Notice there is still a consistent
keying pin location, to prevent accidental rotation of the
header.

*******

Traditional AC'97 Modified AC'97 HDAudio
----------------- (for dual mode) (dual mode or otherwise)

MIC2 AGND MIC2 AGND Port1_L AGND
MICBIAS +5VA MICBIAS ??? Port1_R PRESENCE#
FPOUT_R - RET_R FPOUT_R --- Port2_R SENSE1_RETURN
HP_ON ??? Sense_Send
FPOUT_L - RET_L FPOUT_L --- Port2_L SENSE2_RETURN

(When not used, had (No jumpers needed (Port names reflect the retaskable
two jumper plugs, to on header. No return nature of the jacks. PRESENCE#
join FPOUT to RET. signals are needed. signal is grounded, if a real
HP_ON and +5VA were Power removed for HDAudio cable assembly is being
for an optional non-existent headphone connected. The three SENSE signals
headphone amplifier.) amplifier. Only five use side-contact switches in the
wires should really be front panel jacks, to sense when
connected, for fault something is plugged in.)
free performance! Leave
the RET wires dangling.)

*******

When you use the HDAudio cable in the computer case, and connect
it to the 2x5 header, that's only half the story. The BIOS
has a setting, which "declares" the cabling as either AC'97
or HDAudio mode. In theory, that declaration should be
picked up by the audio driver. But it's possible the
audio driver in Windows, also has a setting in the
control panel, to decide whether to use the SENSE
information or not.

Only in the traditional AC'97 case, of years ago,
would a user lose sound, because they forgot to put
the two jumper plugs back, after removing their front
panel cabling. On your motherboard, no jumper plugs
would be provided, and none are needed. HDAudio chips
have enough channels, they no longer use weird wire-like
routing. The jumper plugs were part of that routing
scheme. And now they're no longer used or needed.

I don't see this as the cause of any problems. You
can see if the RealTek panel has any provision for
the front panel audio setting, of whether to use
the SENSE or not. But it's not going to change a
lack of audio on the back. You can see my setting
here, because mine uses an AC'97 cable and has
no side-contact switches on the audio jacks.

http://i61.tinypic.com/1zc055w.jpg

Paul

On Tue, 26 May 2015 07:06:29 -0400, Paul wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2015 19:24:38 -0400, Paul wrote:


It doo bother me tough, that it keeps telling me that a thing is not
plugged in, when it is. Sobeit.

JW
Have you made any recent changes to the front panel
Audio wiring ? Like changed cables, changed from AC'97
mode to HDAudio mode ? I don't think this is the issue,
since your stuff is more messed up than that.

Paul


Yes and no. The MSI FM2-A85XA-G43 mobo has a 'front panel audio
connector' (so-called JAUD1), and the ROSEWILL case has a cable with
two connector ends, one labelled HDA, the other AC 97. I had always
used the former (for two years), but yesterday I made a try using the
latter, plus none at all. I still had no audio either way.

There are also two other mobo connectors, tagged JFP1 and JFP2 that
are said to be 'front panel connectors', which are not audio, but
connect to other front panel leds etc. I have not touched those.

Thanks

JW


JFP1 has the standard (HP-like) 2x4 arrangement of PowerSwitch,
ResetSwitch, PowerLED, and HDD_LED signals. Those are the
front panel control switches and indicator lights. The other
connector JFP2 has the case SPKR wires for making beep noises
during POST.

The JAUD1 is a dual definition header. Back when there was
AC'97, there was room for two jumper plugs, which provided
a continuity path for the green Speaker audio plug. The
AC'97 header definition was changed, so the need for jumpers
was removed. Which then leaves the difference between AC'97
front panel mode and HDAudio mode, the usage of SENSE_SEND
and the two other associated signals. The center and right-most
columns in this table, correspond to the capabilities of your
motherboard. If your case has the two audio cable types, then
you can match the settings in the computer, to the type of
audio cable you've connected. The only difference this should
make, is in whether the SENSE pins are used for their intended
purpose. If there was a problem here, it would be limited to
the Front Panel audio. Notice there is still a consistent
keying pin location, to prevent accidental rotation of the
header.

*******

Traditional AC'97 Modified AC'97 HDAudio
----------------- (for dual mode) (dual mode or otherwise)

MIC2 AGND MIC2 AGND Port1_L AGND
MICBIAS +5VA MICBIAS ??? Port1_R PRESENCE#
FPOUT_R - RET_R FPOUT_R --- Port2_R SENSE1_RETURN
HP_ON ??? Sense_Send
FPOUT_L - RET_L FPOUT_L --- Port2_L SENSE2_RETURN

(When not used, had (No jumpers needed (Port names reflect the retaskable
two jumper plugs, to on header. No return nature of the jacks. PRESENCE#
join FPOUT to RET. signals are needed. signal is grounded, if a real
HP_ON and +5VA were Power removed for HDAudio cable assembly is being
for an optional non-existent headphone connected. The three SENSE signals
headphone amplifier.) amplifier. Only five use side-contact switches in the
wires should really be front panel jacks, to sense when
connected, for fault something is plugged in.)
free performance! Leave
the RET wires dangling.)

*******

When you use the HDAudio cable in the computer case, and connect
it to the 2x5 header, that's only half the story. The BIOS
has a setting, which "declares" the cabling as either AC'97
or HDAudio mode. In theory, that declaration should be
picked up by the audio driver. But it's possible the
audio driver in Windows, also has a setting in the
control panel, to decide whether to use the SENSE
information or not.

Only in the traditional AC'97 case, of years ago,
would a user lose sound, because they forgot to put
the two jumper plugs back, after removing their front
panel cabling. On your motherboard, no jumper plugs
would be provided, and none are needed. HDAudio chips
have enough channels, they no longer use weird wire-like
routing. The jumper plugs were part of that routing
scheme. And now they're no longer used or needed.

I don't see this as the cause of any problems. You
can see if the RealTek panel has any provision for
the front panel audio setting, of whether to use
the SENSE or not. But it's not going to change a
lack of audio on the back. You can see my setting
here, because mine uses an AC'97 cable and has
no side-contact switches on the audio jacks.

http://i61.tinypic.com/1zc055w.jpg

Paul

Thanks for the info.

JW

Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2015 05:13:11 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:41:31 -0700, Stormin' Norman
wrote:


As it happens, I have a Live CD, and played with it a few years back.
I shud have tried that I guess.

I would download the latest Linux Mint or Ubuntu Live CD, just to be
on the safe side. It is not a 100% sure-fire diagnostic, but it has a
high probability of success.

Is the audio built into the main board or is it a separate sound card?
If it is a card, you can try shutting the machine off and moving it to
a different slot if you have one available. Then, fire up windows and
see what happens.

The best approach to diagnostics is to keep it simple and start at the
first stage. Making sure the hardware is functional is the most
logical first step.

My audio is built into the main board.


Have you checked the system bios and verified the built in audio is
enabled? Better yet, have you entirely reset the system bios? If I
am not mistaken, you experienced the failure of a dvd drive which
began this entire little episode?

It is very easy to reset the bios, if you would like to try this ( I
recommend doing so) and if you want assistance, let me know and I will
look up the instructions on the proper procedure for your specific
motherboard, or, you can look it up yourself on the manufacturers web
site. Let me know.

This is a worthwhile exercise, if the machine is reasonably
bog-standard. If the motherboard is enthusiast-type, the
user has entered a lot of custom settings, you want to
record anything critical to error-free operation.

For example, my new motherboard stores BIOS "Profiles" of some sort
in flash. And you have to remember to reload those, to get
the RAM back to an error free state. While XMP works a treat
on that system, if you fill the machine with RAM, the XMP
stops working, and then it's back to old-fashioned RAM tweaking
to get it running. I have a single, credible profile stored
on the machine, and that saves me tweaking and retesting
after an "event" happens.

On the one hand, there is definite value in "Load setup defaults"
in the BIOS, or the longer "pull the CMOS battery, drain all
power" type methods. Load setup defaults is safer, from a
gefingerpoken point of view. You can keep the case side panel
on the machine, while doing that one. Then, re-enter the BIOS
settings and verify the HDAudio chip is still enabled.

OEM machines don't really have any custom settings to speak of,
which is why resetting the BIOS on those, is an easy decision
to make. It can't hurt anything in that case.

Paul

On Mon, 25 May 2015 19:09:18 -0400, Paul wrote:
I examined the drivers existing in Device Manager, and found 'System
Speakers' under 'System Devices'. It says 'no drivers installed for
this device'. Maybe this is why I have no audio.

JW

On Tue, 26 May 2015 05:34:06 -0700, Stormin' Norman
wrote:


My audio is built into the main board.


Have you checked the system bios and verified the built in audio is
enabled? Better yet, have you entirely reset the system bios? If I
am not mistaken, you experienced the failure of a dvd drive which
began this entire little episode?


You are correct - that is when I first noticed no audio. I have
sinced replaced said drive.


It is very easy to reset the bios, if you would like to try this ( I
recommend doing so) and if you want assistance, let me know and I will
look up the instructions on the proper procedure for your specific
motherboard, or, you can look it up yourself on the manufacturers web
site. Let me know.

I wanted to try that because it seems logical that just maybe therein
lies the problem. After all, it keeps saying the speakers are not
plugged in, and they are! Tell me how to reset this Bios - I wud like
to try that at this point. I tried to find that out, but could not
for some reason.

Thanks

JW

On Tue, 26 May 2015 09:21:36 -0400, Paul wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2015 05:13:11 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:41:31 -0700, Stormin' Norman
wrote:


As it happens, I have a Live CD, and played with it a few years back.
I shud have tried that I guess.

I would download the latest Linux Mint or Ubuntu Live CD, just to be
on the safe side. It is not a 100% sure-fire diagnostic, but it has a
high probability of success.

Is the audio built into the main board or is it a separate sound card?
If it is a card, you can try shutting the machine off and moving it to
a different slot if you have one available. Then, fire up windows and
see what happens.

The best approach to diagnostics is to keep it simple and start at the
first stage. Making sure the hardware is functional is the most
logical first step.

My audio is built into the main board.


Have you checked the system bios and verified the built in audio is
enabled? Better yet, have you entirely reset the system bios? If I
am not mistaken, you experienced the failure of a dvd drive which
began this entire little episode?

It is very easy to reset the bios, if you would like to try this ( I
recommend doing so) and if you want assistance, let me know and I will
look up the instructions on the proper procedure for your specific
motherboard, or, you can look it up yourself on the manufacturers web
site. Let me know.

This is a worthwhile exercise, if the machine is reasonably
bog-standard. If the motherboard is enthusiast-type, the
user has entered a lot of custom settings, you want to
record anything critical to error-free operation.

For example, my new motherboard stores BIOS "Profiles" of some sort
in flash. And you have to remember to reload those, to get
the RAM back to an error free state. While XMP works a treat
on that system, if you fill the machine with RAM, the XMP
stops working, and then it's back to old-fashioned RAM tweaking
to get it running. I have a single, credible profile stored
on the machine, and that saves me tweaking and retesting
after an "event" happens.

On the one hand, there is definite value in "Load setup defaults"
in the BIOS, or the longer "pull the CMOS battery, drain all
power" type methods. Load setup defaults is safer, from a
gefingerpoken point of view. You can keep the case side panel
on the machine, while doing that one. Then, re-enter the BIOS
settings and verify the HDAudio chip is still enabled.

I saw no 'load setup defaults' in my Bios. I am familiar with
pulling/changing the CMOS battery. Done it often.
I am going to do that right now.
JW


OEM machines don't really have any custom settings to speak of,
which is why resetting the BIOS on those, is an easy decision
to make. It can't hurt anything in that case.

Paul

On Tue, 26 May 2015 10:05:55 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 26 May 2015 09:21:36 -0400, Paul wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2015 05:13:11 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:41:31 -0700, Stormin' Norman
wrote:


As it happens, I have a Live CD, and played with it a few years back.
I shud have tried that I guess.

I would download the latest Linux Mint or Ubuntu Live CD, just to be
on the safe side. It is not a 100% sure-fire diagnostic, but it has a
high probability of success.

Is the audio built into the main board or is it a separate sound card?
If it is a card, you can try shutting the machine off and moving it to
a different slot if you have one available. Then, fire up windows and
see what happens.

The best approach to diagnostics is to keep it simple and start at the
first stage. Making sure the hardware is functional is the most
logical first step.

My audio is built into the main board.


Have you checked the system bios and verified the built in audio is
enabled? Better yet, have you entirely reset the system bios? If I
am not mistaken, you experienced the failure of a dvd drive which
began this entire little episode?

It is very easy to reset the bios, if you would like to try this ( I
recommend doing so) and if you want assistance, let me know and I will
look up the instructions on the proper procedure for your specific
motherboard, or, you can look it up yourself on the manufacturers web
site. Let me know.

This is a worthwhile exercise, if the machine is reasonably
bog-standard. If the motherboard is enthusiast-type, the
user has entered a lot of custom settings, you want to
record anything critical to error-free operation.

For example, my new motherboard stores BIOS "Profiles" of some sort
in flash. And you have to remember to reload those, to get
the RAM back to an error free state. While XMP works a treat
on that system, if you fill the machine with RAM, the XMP
stops working, and then it's back to old-fashioned RAM tweaking
to get it running. I have a single, credible profile stored
on the machine, and that saves me tweaking and retesting
after an "event" happens.

On the one hand, there is definite value in "Load setup defaults"
in the BIOS, or the longer "pull the CMOS battery, drain all
power" type methods. Load setup defaults is safer, from a
gefingerpoken point of view. You can keep the case side panel
on the machine, while doing that one. Then, re-enter the BIOS
settings and verify the HDAudio chip is still enabled.

I saw no 'load setup defaults' in my Bios. I am familiar with
pulling/changing the CMOS battery. Done it often.
I am going to do that right now.
JW

I did this - had no effect that I can see.

JW


OEM machines don't really have any custom settings to speak of,
which is why resetting the BIOS on those, is an easy decision
to make. It can't hurt anything in that case.

Paul

On Tue, 26 May 2015 07:30:07 -0700, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

On Tue, 26 May 2015 10:15:15 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 26 May 2015 10:05:55 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 26 May 2015 09:21:36 -0400, Paul wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2015 05:13:11 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 25 May 2015 16:41:31 -0700, Stormin' Norman
wrote:


As it happens, I have a Live CD, and played with it a few years back.
I shud have tried that I guess.

I would download the latest Linux Mint or Ubuntu Live CD, just to be
on the safe side. It is not a 100% sure-fire diagnostic, but it has a
high probability of success.

Is the audio built into the main board or is it a separate sound card?
If it is a card, you can try shutting the machine off and moving it to
a different slot if you have one available. Then, fire up windows and
see what happens.

The best approach to diagnostics is to keep it simple and start at the
first stage. Making sure the hardware is functional is the most
logical first step.

My audio is built into the main board.


Have you checked the system bios and verified the built in audio is
enabled? Better yet, have you entirely reset the system bios? If I
am not mistaken, you experienced the failure of a dvd drive which
began this entire little episode?

It is very easy to reset the bios, if you would like to try this ( I
recommend doing so) and if you want assistance, let me know and I will
look up the instructions on the proper procedure for your specific
motherboard, or, you can look it up yourself on the manufacturers web
site. Let me know.

This is a worthwhile exercise, if the machine is reasonably
bog-standard. If the motherboard is enthusiast-type, the
user has entered a lot of custom settings, you want to
record anything critical to error-free operation.

For example, my new motherboard stores BIOS "Profiles" of some sort
in flash. And you have to remember to reload those, to get
the RAM back to an error free state. While XMP works a treat
on that system, if you fill the machine with RAM, the XMP
stops working, and then it's back to old-fashioned RAM tweaking
to get it running. I have a single, credible profile stored
on the machine, and that saves me tweaking and retesting
after an "event" happens.

On the one hand, there is definite value in "Load setup defaults"
in the BIOS, or the longer "pull the CMOS battery, drain all
power" type methods. Load setup defaults is safer, from a
gefingerpoken point of view. You can keep the case side panel
on the machine, while doing that one. Then, re-enter the BIOS
settings and verify the HDAudio chip is still enabled.

I saw no 'load setup defaults' in my Bios. I am familiar with
pulling/changing the CMOS battery. Done it often.
I am going to do that right now.
JW

I did this - had no effect that I can see.

Simply pulling the battery can frequently result in no effect unless
you wait long enough for the charge stored in the capacitors to bleed
down. The better way is to leave the battery alone (the holders can
be VERY fragile), instead short out the bios jumper / solder points. I
will dig through your other posts to see if you have posted the make
and model of the board.

I waited 10 minutes.
My mobo:
MSI FM2-A85XA-G43
MS-7793 (v2.x)

JW

wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2015 05:34:06 -0700, Stormin' Norman
wrote:


My audio is built into the main board.

Have you checked the system bios and verified the built in audio is
enabled? Better yet, have you entirely reset the system bios? If I
am not mistaken, you experienced the failure of a dvd drive which
began this entire little episode?


You are correct - that is when I first noticed no audio. I have
sinced replaced said drive.

It is very easy to reset the bios, if you would like to try this ( I
recommend doing so) and if you want assistance, let me know and I will
look up the instructions on the proper procedure for your specific
motherboard, or, you can look it up yourself on the manufacturers web
site. Let me know.

I wanted to try that because it seems logical that just maybe therein
lies the problem. After all, it keeps saying the speakers are not
plugged in, and they are! Tell me how to reset this Bios - I wud like
to try that at this point. I tried to find that out, but could not
for some reason.

Thanks

JW

Your machine has two controls for clearing the CMOS (in addition
to removing the battery and draining power).

There is a CLR_CMOS1 button. It is a push button on the motherboard
surface. It is in lower portion of the motherboard, towards
the middle, and just to the right of PCI1 slot.

There is also a JBAT1 2 pin header with no jumper on it.
Shorting the pins on the 2 pin header, does the same thing
as pushing the push button.

In both cases *unplug the computer* before using
those controls. This is important. I've helped one
poster repair his damaged motherboard, but that guy
knew how to solder. And he rescued his motherboard
after ignoring the "unplug the computer" warning.
He had to remove the burned diode, and he used
1N4148 switching diodes as a replacement (not the
best choice, but you can't always get just exactly
the right Schottky for the job).

*******

Anything that shorts VCC3 to ground, can damage the
schottky ORing diode in that part of the design.
The shorting step is only to be done, with the
computer unplugged.

The circuit looks like this, roughly.

|\ |
strong_source ----- VCC3 ----| \|---+-- VBAT to CMOS well on SB/PCH
from PSU |/ | |
|
|\ | |
CR2032 --- 1Kohm ------------| \|---+
|/ | |
3-legged X Shorting node to ground
ORing diode clears CMOS settings. C.F.
X VBAT1 two pin shorting header.
|
----- (Ground potential)
---
-

You unplug the computer from the wall, because the
top path (VCC3) has no current flow protection.
Shorting the two "X" points together, would draw
excessive current through the top Schottky diode,
burning it out. Some of these diodes, can only
take around 70mA max.

The lower battery path, has a 1K ohm resistor. If the "X"
pins are shorted together, 3mA flows from the battery.
This will not cause the lower diode to be damaged. I would
not leave the shorting jumper on JBAT1 for a long time,
because it will be draining the battery. 220mAH divided
by 3mA, is about 70 hours at that loading level.

An ORing diode is used, to use one power source OR the
other power source. The idea is, to arrange the voltage
values used, so under normal circumstances, no current
flows out of the CR2032 at all.

When you unplug the computer, VCC3 drops to zero volts,
the top diode is reversed biased, no current flows in the
top diode. Then, the CR2032 provides 10uA to power the
Southbridge or PCH chip. If 10uA flows through a 1K ohm
resistor, the voltage drop is 10mV. If the battery
voltage is 3.000V, the voltage just after the 1K ohm
resistor, is 2.990V or 10mV lower. I did the math here,
to prove the 1K ohm resistor is a good value and
selected with care.

The reason the upper path must be "brittle", is because
a running CMOS well draws "current spikes" on toggle
or D flop transitions. It's desired to have a hard path,
to keep the rail voltage up while the chip is working.
When the chip is asleep, there is no longer a serious
danger of spikes (there are spikes from the RTC,
but they're tiny ones). So a combination of 1K ohm resistor,
plus a small ceramic bypass cap at the PCH, is sufficient
to give good quality power at a 10uA current flow level.

Just remember to unplug the computer, before clearing CMOS... :-)

Paul

On Tue, 26 May 2015 07:50:28 -0700, Stormin' Norman
wrote:


Simply pulling the battery can frequently result in no effect unless
you wait long enough for the charge stored in the capacitors to bleed
down. The better way is to leave the battery alone (the holders can
be VERY fragile), instead short out the bios jumper / solder points. I
will dig through your other posts to see if you have posted the make
and model of the board.

I waited 10 minutes.
My mobo:
MSI FM2-A85XA-G43
MS-7793 (v2.x)


If you didn't unplug the power cord from the machine, the capacitors
might not bleed down at all.

Never-the-less, here is the manual for your board, download, extract
and open it:

http://us.msi.com/support/mb/FM2A85X...ml#down-manual

Section 2 refers to the bios, page 2-7 shows you where to find the
audio controller setting and page 2-9 shows you where to find the
Restore default bios setting, it is in the exit menu.

I could not find the mechanical method of resetting clearing the CMOS
bios, I am sure there must be a way, I just couldn't find it.

Go ahead and restore the default settings, remember, change the date
and time in the OS back to the correct settings and do it immediately
after rebooting.


Sorry for the pause - I had to deal with other personals.
First, thanks for the manual URL. Turns out my paper manual that came
with the mobo is nowhere the same. I used yours naturally - found
what I could not before.

When I pulled the CMOS battery, I also pulled the power cord knowing
it continues to supply mobo power even tho the mobo is shut down.

When I replaced the battery, I restored the Bios default settings -
re-booted. Sorry to say things look about the same. Under Control
Panel Sounds I see:
1 - Digital Display Audio
AMD High Definition Audio Device
Not plugged in
Red

Speakers
Realtek High Definition Audio
Not plugged in
Red

Realtek Digital Output
Realtek High Definition Audio
Disabled
Black

The Desktop Tray Icon for the speaker is RED.
The Sound Scheme for all events are GRAY.

That's all I can think to tell you at this point.

Thanks

JW

On Tue, 26 May 2015 07:50:28 -0700, Stormin' Norman
wrote:


Simply pulling the battery can frequently result in no effect unless
you wait long enough for the charge stored in the capacitors to bleed
down. The better way is to leave the battery alone (the holders can
be VERY fragile), instead short out the bios jumper / solder points. I
will dig through your other posts to see if you have posted the make
and model of the board.

I waited 10 minutes.
My mobo:
MSI FM2-A85XA-G43
MS-7793 (v2.x)


If you didn't unplug the power cord from the machine, the capacitors
might not bleed down at all.

Never-the-less, here is the manual for your board, download, extract
and open it:

http://us.msi.com/support/mb/FM2A85X...ml#down-manual

Section 2 refers to the bios, page 2-7 shows you where to find the
audio controller setting and page 2-9 shows you where to find the
Restore default bios setting, it is in the exit menu.

I could not find the mechanical method of resetting clearing the CMOS
bios, I am sure there must be a way, I just couldn't find it.

Go ahead and restore the default settings, remember, change the date
and time in the OS back to the correct settings and do it immediately
after rebooting.


Sorry for the pause - I had to deal with other personals.
First, thanks for the manual URL. Turns out my paper manual that came
with the mobo is nowhere the same. I used yours naturally - found
what I could not before.

When I pulled the CMOS battery, I also pulled the power cord knowing
it continues to supply mobo power even tho the mobo is shut down.

When I replaced the battery, I restored the Bios default settings -
re-booted. Sorry to say things look about the same. Under Control
Panel Sounds I see:
1 - Digital Display Audio
AMD High Definition Audio Device
Not plugged in
Red

Speakers
Realtek High Definition Audio
Not plugged in
Red

Realtek Digital Output
Realtek High Definition Audio
Disabled
Black

The Desktop Tray Icon for the speaker is RED.
The Sound Scheme for all events are GRAY.

That's all I can think to tell you at this point.


1. What about the device that showed no drivers installed?

2. Did you press the CMOS reset button on the mainboard?

3. Did you attempt to boot from the Linux live cd?

4. When you pulled the battery, did the date change?

5. Have you updated the bios to the newest version, on the MSI website
it appears to be dated February 2015


Again - sorry for delayed response. I have beaucoup responsibilities
I will not go into that take much of my time and influence my
thinkings. I should just give all this up and wait for my Chinese
sound board and hope that works.

That said, I got out my Linux stuff in closet, and wouldn't you know I
cud not find a live CD. I really thought I had made and used one. I'm
talking at least three years ago. Anyway I did find several Ubuntu
versions of which I tried a v11.04 disk. It seemed to install ok, but
when I ran the result in its so-called test mode so as to not disturb
my W7, it would not play any audio. I tried a few MP3's and OGG's. I
don't remember what Linux files are audio.

I thought to install XP on another loose HDD I have to try its audio,
but quickly re-discovered that this MOBO is not really geared up for
XP without a lot of workaround. So I gave that up.

No, the date did not change when I pulled the CMOS battery. That is
strange, but is an indicator that the CMOS was not really reset, huh?

I dunno what BIOS version I have - have to take a look, I do know I
subscribe to riverAgent, and I downloaded and installed what they said
should be ungraded.

No, I did not press the CMOS reset button - gotta find it. I told you
how I handled the reset.

I don't remember what device showed no driver installed. My bad. Have
to revue prior posts when I get the time.

Thanks for your support. I'll remember you in my will.

JW