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  #31  
Old January 5th 19, 02:57 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Commander Kinsey
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Posts: 94
Default 10 Sucks !

On Sat, 05 Jan 2019 01:19:24 -0000, Keith Nuttle wrote:

On 1/4/2019 7:28 PM, Jim S wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jan 2019 17:02:34 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jan 2019 23:45:14 -0000, "Commander Kinsey"
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jan 2019 21:00:01 -0000, notX wrote:

On 1/4/19 10:45 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 1/4/2019 10:30 AM, wrote:
I'm staying happily with 7 .

I occasionally ask for one good reason to go to 10 and nobody has
given one. Lots of good reasons NOT to go to 10 !

Name one good reason for staying with W-7 which is obsolete!

It's not Win 8 or Win 10.

Just like DOS, Internet explorer, Lotus, dBase, and other software that
has come and gone in the last 40 years

Internet Explorer "come and gone". I like that.

Just because it's now called Edge doesn't mean it's gone. Edge is still here and it still sux. Currently it tells me I have no internet connection, yet every other browser works. WTF? And as per usual with modern fluffy programs that act like a ****ing Apple Mac, all I get is a silly cartoon with a confused looking alien saying no internet. What about some ****ing technical information so I can fix the problem?!?



It is *not* now called Edge. Internet Explorer and Edge are two
different browsers, and *both* of them come with Windows 10.

I'm not a fan of Internet Explorer, but as far as I'm concerned, it's
much better than Edge, which to me is about the worst browser
available.


Agreed & BTW I have had no problem with W10 and I am reeely old. :-)

If there is an age difference between those that like Windows 10 and
those that like the old OS, It must be the younger ones who refuse to
upgrade.

I am 3/4 of a century old and am currently running W10 1809 on both of
my computers. I started out on a Texas Instrument TI-99-4a and the
Original IBM that had to 5.5 inch floppies for storage. We were
impressed when IBM released the AT with it graphics


Of the old people I know, 1/4 like Windows 10 and say "why not have the latest", 1/4 like older versions for no reason other than they're quite odd, 1/4 don't care which they use, and 1/4 don't have a computer and would never touch one with a bargepole. One of the latter was quite surprised when I printed off an instruction manual for her washing machine and didn't have to pay for it. She couldn't understand how Hotpoint could provide the manual for free. In the end I said it cost me 10p in paper.
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  #32  
Old January 5th 19, 03:33 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
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Posts: 5,114
Default 10 Sucks !

"Commander Kinsey" wrote

| What's obsolete? Doesn't all software still support
| Win7? Of course, you can't use Metro apps,
|
| Does anybody? I've never met a single person who uses Metro in any way
shape or form, it's just some annoying screen we all turn off.
|

It's not really relevant, but back when they cooked
it up they had a plan: the same OS and apps across
phone, tablet and desktop, with services and small
screens taking over. But then they ended up with no
phone and pretty much no tablet. So they have a
phone app system on a desktop. Woops.



  #33  
Old January 5th 19, 03:35 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
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Posts: 5,114
Default 10 Sucks !

"Mike" wrote

| Microsoft will do whatever they can to encourage you to
| move to win10. One subtle move is to change the software
| development environment in such a way that it forces vendors
| to maintain two separate versions of their product.

?? I don't know what you're referring to. I work
in VB6 and can write software that runs on virtually
any existing Windows computer without installing
any support files. Are you talking about Metro?
Or something else?


  #34  
Old January 5th 19, 07:58 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mike
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Posts: 65
Default 10 Sucks !

On 1/4/2019 3:49 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

It's not private companies you have to worry about spying on you, they
just want to thrust adverts down your throat.* What you should be
worried about is the government.


So you believe that the "government" can't access win7?
OR XP?
OR your cellphone camera?
OR your smart refrigerator?
OR your car's GPS?
OR
If you want complete anonymity, I'll lend you my VIC-20...
well...I can't, it's running all my secret stuff...

Worrying about the government is futile.
If they can't get your computer, they'll just break down your door.

  #35  
Old January 5th 19, 08:02 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mike
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Posts: 65
Default 10 Sucks !

On 1/4/2019 4:28 PM, Jim S wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jan 2019 17:02:34 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jan 2019 23:45:14 -0000, "Commander Kinsey"
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jan 2019 21:00:01 -0000, notX wrote:

On 1/4/19 10:45 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 1/4/2019 10:30 AM, wrote:
I'm staying happily with 7 .

I occasionally ask for one good reason to go to 10 and nobody has
given one. Lots of good reasons NOT to go to 10 !

Name one good reason for staying with W-7 which is obsolete!

It's not Win 8 or Win 10.

Just like DOS, Internet explorer, Lotus, dBase, and other software that
has come and gone in the last 40 years

Internet Explorer "come and gone". I like that.

Just because it's now called Edge doesn't mean it's gone. Edge is still here and it still sux. Currently it tells me I have no internet connection, yet every other browser works. WTF? And as per usual with modern fluffy programs that act like a ****ing Apple Mac, all I get is a silly cartoon with a confused looking alien saying no internet. What about some ****ing technical information so I can fix the problem?!?




It is *not* now called Edge. Internet Explorer and Edge are two
different browsers, and *both* of them come with Windows 10.

I'm not a fan of Internet Explorer, but as far as I'm concerned, it's
much better than Edge, which to me is about the worst browser
available.


Agreed & BTW I have had no problem with W10 and I am reeely old. :-)

Somewhere around windows 3.1, I decided that sticking with the ever-changing
windows was futile.
I use as few native apps as possible. My Opera browser works much the
same way it did years ago.

Windows is an operating system.
You choose the best apps for YOUR needs.
If it happens to be a native app, so be it.
Most aren't.
  #36  
Old January 5th 19, 08:28 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mike
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Posts: 65
Default 10 Sucks !

On 1/4/2019 6:35 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Mike" wrote

| Microsoft will do whatever they can to encourage you to
| move to win10. One subtle move is to change the software
| development environment in such a way that it forces vendors
| to maintain two separate versions of their product.

?? I don't know what you're referring to. I work
in VB6 and can write software that runs on virtually
any existing Windows computer without installing
any support files. Are you talking about Metro?
Or something else?


I can't give you any examples.
I've been retired and out of the business for 24 years.
If MS makes subtle changes in the API that causes you to need different
syntax, that's all it takes to require two separate code bases to be
required/maintained. Historically, one such change was the change from
VB6 to dotnet.

You are stuck in the past, as am I, with VB6. You can build whatever
VB6 and the support API allows. My guess is that major commercial
vendors find that newer IDE/languages are much more productive in getting
all those bugs to the user as quickly as possible. Once you've done that,
you can leverage other existing modern code, but
supporting older versions with different coding constraints becomes
expensive.

Having said that, maybe you can help me extend the life VB6.
My needs are simple. VB6 can do everything I've needed so far.

I have VB6 working in windows 10.
I can write and execute code on the machine that has VB6 installed.

What isn't working is the package deployment wizard that lets me install
the program on another computer without resident VB6.
Got any advice on fixing that?

Best thing I have so far is to move the finished
code over to a win7 virtualbox and execute the deployment wizard there.
I don't just code/debug there because most of my stuff is hardware interface
and VBox gets in the way.

Email works if that's off topic.

Thanks,
mike
  #37  
Old January 5th 19, 10:52 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
No_Name
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Posts: 3
Default 10 Sucks !

On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 13:29:25 -0800, Mike wrote:

On 1/4/2019 9:23 AM, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 11:45:20 -0500, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

On 1/4/2019 10:30 AM, wrote:
I'm staying happily with 7 .

I occasionally ask for one good reason to go to 10 and nobody has
given one. Lots of good reasons NOT to go to 10 !

Name one good reason for staying with W-7 which is obsolete!


It may be "obsolete" for some users who believe MS but W7 works
perfectly.

Just like DOS, Internet explorer, Lotus, dBase, and other software that
has come and gone in the last 40 years


If it ain't broke, don't fix it! AAMOI I've just got a job to fix a
DOS application running on W7 that the user say's won't work running
on W10. I suppose I'll have to get a recent W10 to test my fix before
I work out a charge.

Steve

How can you possibly be in the retail computer service business without
having intimate knowledge of win10?


I'm not in retail.

Not liking win10 is one thing. Not having the ability to work with it
is quite another matter.


I sell my software with a money back guarantee if the user has a
problem. The operating system is not an issue.

Steve

--
Neural Network Software
http://www.npsnn.com
JustNN Just a neural network http://www.justnn.com
EasyNN-plus More than just a neural network http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN Prediction software http://www.swingnn.com

  #38  
Old January 5th 19, 11:04 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Stephen Wolstenholme[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 220
Default 10 Sucks !

On Fri, 04 Jan 2019 23:47:56 -0000, "Commander Kinsey"
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jan 2019 22:19:34 -0000, Mayayana wrote:

"Keith Nuttle" wrote

| Name one good reason for staying with W-7 which is obsolete!

What's obsolete? Doesn't all software still support
Win7? Of course, you can't use Metro apps,


Does anybody? I've never met a single person who uses Metro in any way shape or form, it's just some annoying screen we all turn off.


I use Metro. Where I live it's a Taxi company.

Steve

--
http://www.npsnn.com

  #39  
Old January 5th 19, 11:37 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
mechanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 920
Default 10 Sucks !

On Fri, 04 Jan 2019 23:46:04 -0000, Commander Kinsey wrote:

That's like saying you prefer the Golf Mk1 to the Mk4.


Many do, especially the GTI. Lighter and more nimble.
  #40  
Old January 5th 19, 12:45 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jim S[_5_]
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Posts: 79
Default 10 Sucks !

On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 23:02:20 -0800, Mike wrote:

On 1/4/2019 4:28 PM, Jim S wrote:
On Fri, 04 Jan 2019 17:02:34 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jan 2019 23:45:14 -0000, "Commander Kinsey"
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jan 2019 21:00:01 -0000, notX wrote:

On 1/4/19 10:45 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 1/4/2019 10:30 AM, wrote:
I'm staying happily with 7 .

I occasionally ask for one good reason to go to 10 and nobody has
given one. Lots of good reasons NOT to go to 10 !

Name one good reason for staying with W-7 which is obsolete!

It's not Win 8 or Win 10.

Just like DOS, Internet explorer, Lotus, dBase, and other software that
has come and gone in the last 40 years

Internet Explorer "come and gone". I like that.

Just because it's now called Edge doesn't mean it's gone. Edge is still here and it still sux. Currently it tells me I have no internet connection, yet every other browser works. WTF? And as per usual with modern fluffy programs that act like a ****ing Apple Mac, all I get is a silly cartoon with a confused looking alien saying no internet. What about some ****ing technical information so I can fix the problem?!?



It is *not* now called Edge. Internet Explorer and Edge are two
different browsers, and *both* of them come with Windows 10.

I'm not a fan of Internet Explorer, but as far as I'm concerned, it's
much better than Edge, which to me is about the worst browser
available.


Agreed & BTW I have had no problem with W10 and I am reeely old. :-)

Somewhere around windows 3.1, I decided that sticking with the ever-changing
windows was futile.
I use as few native apps as possible. My Opera browser works much the
same way it did years ago.

Windows is an operating system.
You choose the best apps for YOUR needs.
If it happens to be a native app, so be it.
Most aren't.


I like Opera, but since it became Chinese I dumped it
I'd rather be hacked by someone who spaeks English.
--
Jim S
  #41  
Old January 5th 19, 03:44 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Blake[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,003
Default 10 Sucks !

On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 00:28:22 +0000, Jim S wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jan 2019 17:02:34 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jan 2019 23:45:14 -0000, "Commander Kinsey"
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jan 2019 21:00:01 -0000, notX wrote:

On 1/4/19 10:45 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 1/4/2019 10:30 AM, wrote:
I'm staying happily with 7 .

I occasionally ask for one good reason to go to 10 and nobody has
given one. Lots of good reasons NOT to go to 10 !

Name one good reason for staying with W-7 which is obsolete!

It's not Win 8 or Win 10.

Just like DOS, Internet explorer, Lotus, dBase, and other software that
has come and gone in the last 40 years

Internet Explorer "come and gone". I like that.

Just because it's now called Edge doesn't mean it's gone. Edge is still here and it still sux. Currently it tells me I have no internet connection, yet every other browser works. WTF? And as per usual with modern fluffy programs that act like a ****ing Apple Mac, all I get is a silly cartoon with a confused looking alien saying no internet. What about some ****ing technical information so I can fix the problem?!?




It is *not* now called Edge. Internet Explorer and Edge are two
different browsers, and *both* of them come with Windows 10.

I'm not a fan of Internet Explorer, but as far as I'm concerned, it's
much better than Edge, which to me is about the worst browser
available.


Agreed & BTW I have had no problem with W10 and I am reeely old. :-)



I have no problems with Windows 10 either (on two machines here). I
like it a lot.

I'm probably older than you (I'm 81), but I've been working with
computers since 1962.


  #42  
Old January 5th 19, 03:49 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
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Posts: 5,114
Default 10 Sucks !

"Mike" wrote

| Windows is an operating system.
| You choose the best apps for YOUR needs.
| If it happens to be a native app, so be it.
| Most aren't.

Just a note of clarification. "Native app" usually
refers to compiled software, as opposed to Metro
trinkets or webpage "apps" or Java/.Net software,
or any other "sandboxed" software that's not actually
compiled to native code (CPU instructions) and
therefore runs in some kind of VM or support
framework.

It sounds like what you mean is not that but
rather pre-installed Microsoft products.


  #43  
Old January 5th 19, 03:57 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Blake[_5_]
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Posts: 2,003
Default 10 Sucks !

On Sat, 05 Jan 2019 01:55:16 -0000, "Commander Kinsey"
wrote:

On Sat, 05 Jan 2019 00:02:34 -0000, Ken Blake wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jan 2019 23:45:14 -0000, "Commander Kinsey"
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jan 2019 21:00:01 -0000, notX wrote:

On 1/4/19 10:45 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 1/4/2019 10:30 AM, wrote:
I'm staying happily with 7 .

I occasionally ask for one good reason to go to 10 and nobody has
given one. Lots of good reasons NOT to go to 10 !

Name one good reason for staying with W-7 which is obsolete!

It's not Win 8 or Win 10.

Just like DOS, Internet explorer, Lotus, dBase, and other software that
has come and gone in the last 40 years

Internet Explorer "come and gone". I like that.

Just because it's now called Edge doesn't mean it's gone. Edge is still here and it still sux. Currently it tells me I have no internet connection, yet every other browser works. WTF? And as per usual with modern fluffy programs that act like a ****ing Apple Mac, all I get is a silly cartoon with a confused looking alien saying no internet. What about some ****ing technical information so I can fix the problem?!?


It is *not* now called Edge. Internet Explorer and Edge are two
different browsers, and *both* of them come with Windows 10.


So you get the old and the new version, so what, it doesn't change what I just said.



Say something wrong, get corrected, and say "it doesn't change what I
just said." That's a great way to lose the respect of everyone here.

And it's not "the old and the new version." They are two *different*
browsers.



They're both the same **** made my Microsoft.




I wouldn't say it like that, but as I said (quoted below) I agree,


It's some legal bull**** because they weren't allowed to have edge as the default browser or something.



Again, not correct. Despite their both coming with Windows 10, Edge
*is* the default browser.


I'm not a fan of Internet Explorer, but as far as I'm concerned, it's
much better than Edge, which to me is about the worst browser
available.


They both suck.




Yes, I agree.


They're both full of security holes.



Not in my experience.


They both stop working for no reason.



Not in my experience, although admittedly I've used both so seldom
that I can't be sure. However my wife uses Edge (don't ask me why; I
have idea) and as far as I know, has *never* experienced that.

And by the way, since you didn't know that Internet Explorer 11 came
with Windows 10, you never ran it. And since you never ran it, your
three "both" statements above are nonsense. You couldn't know that if
you hadn't run it.
  #44  
Old January 5th 19, 04:36 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,114
Default 10 Sucks !

"Mike" wrote

| Historically, one such change was the change from
| VB6 to dotnet.
|
| You are stuck in the past, as am I, with VB6.

I see what you mean. That's an interesting issue.
Right now, VB6 and VC6 are the most widely supported
products of all. .Net was never big and still isn't. Like
Java, it's big on corporate back-ends for quickie
programming. But also like Java, it never made much
sense on Windows. It's slow and requires a monstrously
bloated runtime. And each runtime has restrictions.

That problem was why they stopped at v. 2 for awhile,
allowing later versions of VS.Net to target the v. 2 runtime.
DotNetters were frustrated with trying to sneak 1/2 GB
of slop past people who thought they were installing a
small utility program.

.Net was originally intended for "web apps". The
successor to ActiveX in IE. When web apps didn't
happen, MS pretended .Net was for Desktop, too.

http://web.archive.org/web/201011121...eliverspr.mspx

Then they tried to build Windows with it, which failed
miserably. (Longhorn.) By their own description, .Net
was far too bloated and slow to be handled by any
then-current hardware.

To this day, the only .Net software I have is the applet
for my display chip. and it takes forever to load. I
occasionally see something that wants .Net, but it
just isn't worth it in my mind to install all that bloat.
There's always a non-.Net option. And .Net usually
indicates the same problem as early VB: That the
programmer probably doesn't really know what they're
doing.

These days MS are pushing the Metro trinkets because
they get a cut. .Net is being repurposed to write what
are essentially little more than HTA webpage apps. Good
luck and good riddance. They have no market for that junk.
No one needs a Facebook or Uber app, or a flashlight
app, or an app to put kitty ears on your girlfriend's photo,
on a desktop.

But through all of that, the API for compiled software
has been dependable. If you stick with basic VB and
Windows API you can target any Windows version with
no dependencies. There's not as much commercial market
for software as there once was, but the Win95 API is
still supported. Anything that was ever made official is still
supported, with very few exceptions. For instance, in
Vista/7 with XP compat mode, GetVersionEx will lie and
tell your software you're on XP! So you have to use other
ways to find the OS version. But that kind of thing is rare.

If you target later it's even easier. For instance, I had
a Google maps program that used my own low-level
winsock code to talk to the server. It works on Win98+.
Later I decided to use winhttp. Much easier. It only
works on XP+, but that's almost everyone these days.
Each Windows version adds some conveniences.

| What isn't working is the package deployment wizard that lets me install
| the program on another computer without resident VB6.
| Got any advice on fixing that?
|

You didn't say what the problem is. A simple
EXE should work fine on any other machine,
depending on dependencies.

As for the PDW itself, see he

https://www.jsware.net/jsware/vbcode.php5#set12

The PDW just figures out what the package needs.
Then it has setup.exe to kick off the install. That was
needed in Win9x times because the runtime was not
pre-installed. So setup.exe would do the runtime
install and then start setup1.exe. Setup1.exe is written
entirely in VB6 and the project is included in the Wizards
folder (or somewhere in that tree.)

The link is to an updated setup1.exe. Setup.exe
is no longer needed and causes problems because
Vista+ won't let you install system files. So it tries
to install them, reboots, then fails and starts all over
again. But none of that is relevant any longer. The
runtime has been pre-installed since WinME.

So I rewrote setup1.exe. I cleaned out a lot of
muck and added some things, like the ability
to make a Quick Launch icon, customize the setup
window, set folder permissions, etc. If you name
your final setup with "setup", as in AcmeEditor2setup.exe,
then Windows will assume it needs admin rights. You
can then set up folders with no restrictions to prevent
problems later.
File restrictions are probably the most common
problem these days. Example: You try to put program
settings in the program folder, to satisfy the portable
app craze. But then the software doesn't have permission
to write to its own settings file. The way I do it now
is to set no restrictions on a temp subfolder, if necessary,
and a settings subfolder. Then I keep all operations
within those subfolders. Safe and functional. No
fiddling with the app data catacombs. No risking that
windows will block an operation. At the same time, no
executable at risk of corruption because only data is in
those subfolders.

You can send email if you want. I'm happy to help
if I can. Email is in the download. But it won't get through
unless you have real email. No spyware, webmail crap.
Also, the VB6 newsgroup is still active.


  #45  
Old January 5th 19, 04:54 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Blake[_5_]
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Posts: 2,003
Default 10 Sucks !

On Sat, 05 Jan 2019 08:47:09 -0700, KenW wrote:

It only sucks if you don't spend the time to learn it.
Just like everything in life !



Well said! A very strong ditto.
 




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