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Win XP to Win 10?



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 9th 19, 07:45 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Bill in Co[_3_]
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Posts: 302
Default Win XP to Win 10?

Was just curious how many had taken the plunge and were happy about it. I
don't have any experience with Windows 10, but from what I can gather, you
"just" have to get used to its new interface, the use of "apps" (which I
assume are nearly the same thing as what we used to call programs), the
forced MS updates, and that many of the older programs can't be successfully
imported. Oh, and that you can get a classic start menu without tiles. (I'm
not sure what the distinction is between apps and programs on Windows 10).
Is all that about correct?


Ads
  #2  
Old January 9th 19, 10:20 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 8,835
Default Win XP to Win 10?

Bill in Co wrote:
Was just curious how many had taken the plunge and were happy about it. I
don't have any experience with Windows 10, but from what I can gather, you
"just" have to get used to its new interface, the use of "apps" (which I
assume are nearly the same thing as what we used to call programs), the
forced MS updates, and that many of the older programs can't be successfully
imported. Oh, and that you can get a classic start menu without tiles. (I'm
not sure what the distinction is between apps and programs on Windows 10).
Is all that about correct?


You can't do an Upgrade install over top of WinXP.

Win10 can upgrade over:

Win7 SP1
Win8.1
Another Win10

Just grab a copy and install. You don't need a license
key to trial it. If your CPU is too old, it'll tell you
at some point (no, the traditional Upgrade Advisor is
not available).

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...load/windows10

Note that the web page is context sensitive. If you use
WinXP and a browser, or you use Linux and a browser, you
will be given a direct link to a 3.5GB or a 2.5GB ISO9660.

If you use Win7/Win8/Win10, you will instead be offered
a copy of the .NET based MediaCreationTool.exe . That will
do a download for you from your W7/W8/W10 setup.

Windows 10 has mis-detection for at least one Intel
processor, where the installer tells the user the hardware
is not suitable, when in fact the hardware is fine. This is
an error in some output coming from the processor, where
the Intel particulars do not match the behavior and capabilities
of the actual silicon. You're unlikely to have that processor.
If the software actually ran SQRT(2) on the machine, instead
of checking for some table that tells you whether SQRT()
exists, this sort of thing would not happen.

The very last generation of P4 *might* be able to run Windows 10,
but I don't think any "P4 people" have wandered by to make such
a claim. The majority of P4 processors aren't good enough. Only
the very last ones (2MB cache???) would be potentially a
candidate. A Core2 or better would be a better choice.

*******

Another way to run it.

Use VirtualBox. 5.2.22 is the last version that will run
on WinXP. You can run a 64 bit guest if the CPU supports
64 bit, even though the WinXP OS hosting Virtualbox is 32 bit.

https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads

Then, you grab a pre-installed guest OS of the Win10
persuasion here. I have a Win7 one and a WinXP one, back
when those were available.

https://developer.microsoft.com/en-u...dge/tools/vms/

It should be possible to select some "sickly" hardware to
run WinXP and VirtualBox, such that when the Win10 VM loads,
it'll crash :-) I haven't tried to do that, to see how
vulnerable it is. By avoiding an installation step using
an "appliance" version like this, the OS has no way of
preventing you from using hardware that doesn't support
Windows 10.

When you install on physical hardware, the installer DVD
can tell you that the hardware is not a candidate.

You're only going to be running this OS for about ten
minutes, so I wouldn't be too concerned about "license keys"
and "purchasing" :-)

Without a license key present, the Settings : Personalize
section will not be available for adjustment. Perhaps that
prevents you from selecting "Dark Theme" or something.

Paul
  #3  
Old January 9th 19, 10:59 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
David B.[_10_]
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Posts: 286
Default Win XP to Win 10?

On 09/01/2019 19:45, Bill in Co wrote:
Was just curious how many had taken the plunge and were happy about it. I
don't have any experience with Windows 10, but from what I can gather, you
"just" have to get used to its new interface, the use of "apps" (which I
assume are nearly the same thing as what we used to call programs), the
forced MS updates, and that many of the older programs can't be successfully
imported. Oh, and that you can get a classic start menu without tiles. (I'm
not sure what the distinction is between apps and programs on Windows 10).
Is all that about correct?



FWIW, Bill, after using Windows XP for many years, I skipped Vista and
bought a new laptop with Windows 7. I had no trouble using it. Back in
2008 I bought an Apple iMac and learned how to use it. I've since used
all these operating systems:-

Mac OS X Leopard – version 10.5, released to end users on Friday,
October 26, 2007
Mac OS X Snow Leopard – version 10.6, publicly unveiled on Monday, June
8, 2009
Mac OS X Lion – version 10.7, released to end users on Wednesday, July
20, 2011
OS X Mountain Lion – version 10.8, released to end users on Wednesday,
July 25, 2012
OS X Mavericks – version 10.9, released to end users on Tuesday, October
22, 2013
OS X Yosemite – version 10.10, released to end users on Thursday,
October 16, 2014
OS X El Capitan – version 10.11, released to end users on Wednesday,
September 30, 2015
macOS Sierra – version 10.12, released to end users on Tuesday,
September 20, 2016
macOS High Sierra – version 10.13, released to end users on Monday,
September 25, 2017
macOS Mojave – version 10.14, released to end users on Monday, September
24, 2018

I've skipped Windows 8 & 8.1 but now have Windows 10 (as well as a new
iMac - well, 12 months old now but with a magnificent 27 inch screen!)

I have a friend who I helped upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10 and he
manages just fine. He's just had his 91st birthday - on Christmas Eve!

If *I* can do these things, so can you! ;-)

--
David B.
  #4  
Old January 9th 19, 11:38 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,835
Default Win XP to Win 10?

David B. wrote:
On 09/01/2019 19:45, Bill in Co wrote:
Was just curious how many had taken the plunge and were happy about
it. I
don't have any experience with Windows 10, but from what I can gather,
you
"just" have to get used to its new interface, the use of "apps" (which I
assume are nearly the same thing as what we used to call programs), the
forced MS updates, and that many of the older programs can't be
successfully
imported. Oh, and that you can get a classic start menu without
tiles. (I'm
not sure what the distinction is between apps and programs on Windows
10).
Is all that about correct?



FWIW, Bill, after using Windows XP for many years, I skipped Vista and
bought a new laptop with Windows 7. I had no trouble using it. Back in
2008 I bought an Apple iMac and learned how to use it. I've since used
all these operating systems:-

Mac OS X Leopard – version 10.5, released to end users on Friday,
October 26, 2007
Mac OS X Snow Leopard – version 10.6, publicly unveiled on Monday, June
8, 2009
Mac OS X Lion – version 10.7, released to end users on Wednesday, July
20, 2011
OS X Mountain Lion – version 10.8, released to end users on Wednesday,
July 25, 2012
OS X Mavericks – version 10.9, released to end users on Tuesday, October
22, 2013
OS X Yosemite – version 10.10, released to end users on Thursday,
October 16, 2014
OS X El Capitan – version 10.11, released to end users on Wednesday,
September 30, 2015
macOS Sierra – version 10.12, released to end users on Tuesday,
September 20, 2016
macOS High Sierra – version 10.13, released to end users on Monday,
September 25, 2017
macOS Mojave – version 10.14, released to end users on Monday, September
24, 2018

I've skipped Windows 8 & 8.1 but now have Windows 10 (as well as a new
iMac - well, 12 months old now but with a magnificent 27 inch screen!)

I have a friend who I helped upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10 and he
manages just fine. He's just had his 91st birthday - on Christmas Eve!

If *I* can do these things, so can you! ;-)


OMG.

Well, now you've slapped down a gauntlet.

What will poor Bill do ???

Maybe Bill will humor us, with a count of
how many PCs he owns...

Paul
  #5  
Old January 10th 19, 03:16 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Bill in Co[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 302
Default Win XP to Win 10?

Paul wrote:
David B. wrote:
On 09/01/2019 19:45, Bill in Co wrote:
Was just curious how many had taken the plunge and were happy about it.
I don't have any experience with Windows 10, but from what I can gather,
you "just" have to get used to its new interface, the use of "apps"
(which I
assume are nearly the same thing as what we used to call programs), the
forced MS updates, and that many of the older programs can't be
successfully
imported. Oh, and that you can get a classic start menu without tiles.
(I'm
not sure what the distinction is between apps and programs on Windows
10). Is all that about correct?



FWIW, Bill, after using Windows XP for many years, I skipped Vista and
bought a new laptop with Windows 7. I had no trouble using it. Back in
2008 I bought an Apple iMac and learned how to use it. I've since used
all these operating systems:-

snipped long list for brevity

I've skipped Windows 8 & 8.1 but now have Windows 10 (as well as a new
iMac - well, 12 months old now but with a magnificent 27 inch screen!)

I have a friend who I helped upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10 and he
manages just fine. He's just had his 91st birthday - on Christmas Eve!

If *I* can do these things, so can you! ;-)


OMG.

Well, now you've slapped down a gauntlet.

What will poor Bill do ???

Maybe Bill will humor us, with a count of
how many PCs he owns...

Paul


I just had some concerns, as echoed above, and was just looking for some
specific feedback regarding those questions or concerns. :-)

As far as "upgrading" is concerned, I think my stuff is too old for that.
I've got one desktop computer (Win XP), which I use almost all the time. And
just as a backup, I have two old used eBay laptops (one with Win XP, one
with Windows 7), which I rarely use..

If I ever went out and bought one of these nice new svelte laptops, like
I've seen on display at some stores here, I'd probably just scrap the latter
two.

I wonder if anybody gets so used to a laptop that it ends up replacing their
desktop for almost everything they need to do (for home or limited work use,
I mean).


  #6  
Old January 10th 19, 09:12 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
David B.[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 286
Default Win XP to Win 10?

On 10/01/2019 03:16, Bill in Co wrote:
[....]
I just had some concerns, as echoed above, and was just looking for some
specific feedback regarding those questions or concerns. :-)

As far as "upgrading" is concerned, I think my stuff is too old for that.
I've got one desktop computer (Win XP), which I use almost all the time. And
just as a backup, I have two old used eBay laptops (one with Win XP, one
with Windows 7), which I rarely use..

If I ever went out and bought one of these nice new svelte laptops, like
I've seen on display at some stores here, I'd probably just scrap the latter
two.

I wonder if anybody gets so used to a laptop that it ends up replacing their
desktop for almost everything they need to do (for home or limited work use,
I mean).


What you might like to consider, Bill, is a brand new iPad Pro and
detachable keyboard.

After many years of persuasion I got one for my sister about 14 months
ago (she's just passed her 82nd birthday!). She had NEVER used a
computer of any sort nor ever used a Smartphone. She's taken to it like
a duck to water! I'm an hours drive away from her but have been in touch
regularly to provide a kind of help-desk facility free of charge! ;-)

If you have an Apple store near you, I encourage you to visit to ask for
a demonstration and hold the magic in your hands!

You might enjoy watching this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzHHxlpOaw8

=

Things for me are not always straight-forward! :-(

I'm now faced with a problem set out here (following the recent update
of my Windows 10 laptop)

Now I'm getting:

error: unknown filesystem.
grub rescue

https://askubuntu.com/questions/1195...own-filesystem

Perhaps Paul can recommend HIS preferred solution?

--
David B.
  #7  
Old January 10th 19, 10:35 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
MikeS[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Win XP to Win 10?

On 10/01/2019 03:16, Bill in Co wrote:
Paul wrote:
David B. wrote:
On 09/01/2019 19:45, Bill in Co wrote:
Was just curious how many had taken the plunge and were happy about it.
I don't have any experience with Windows 10, but from what I can gather,
you "just" have to get used to its new interface, the use of "apps"
(which I
assume are nearly the same thing as what we used to call programs), the
forced MS updates, and that many of the older programs can't be
successfully
imported. Oh, and that you can get a classic start menu without tiles.
(I'm
not sure what the distinction is between apps and programs on Windows
10). Is all that about correct?


FWIW, Bill, after using Windows XP for many years, I skipped Vista and
bought a new laptop with Windows 7. I had no trouble using it. Back in
2008 I bought an Apple iMac and learned how to use it. I've since used
all these operating systems:-

snipped long list for brevity

I've skipped Windows 8 & 8.1 but now have Windows 10 (as well as a new
iMac - well, 12 months old now but with a magnificent 27 inch screen!)

I have a friend who I helped upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10 and he
manages just fine. He's just had his 91st birthday - on Christmas Eve!

If *I* can do these things, so can you! ;-)


OMG.

Well, now you've slapped down a gauntlet.

What will poor Bill do ???

Maybe Bill will humor us, with a count of
how many PCs he owns...

Paul


I just had some concerns, as echoed above, and was just looking for some
specific feedback regarding those questions or concerns. :-)

As far as "upgrading" is concerned, I think my stuff is too old for that.
I've got one desktop computer (Win XP), which I use almost all the time. And
just as a backup, I have two old used eBay laptops (one with Win XP, one
with Windows 7), which I rarely use..

If I ever went out and bought one of these nice new svelte laptops, like
I've seen on display at some stores here, I'd probably just scrap the latter
two.

I wonder if anybody gets so used to a laptop that it ends up replacing their
desktop for almost everything they need to do (for home or limited work use,
I mean).


I continued to use my Win XP PC until last year when it was clear its
days were numbered and I then bought a modestly priced laptop running
Windows 10. Windows 10 is mostly fine, it works very well and I can
easily take the laptop into any room in the house. Now taken with
reading my emails over breakfast! I kept the old PC as a backup for now.

Two things to keep in mind. I don't like the new Start Menu much so I
installed Classic Start Menu which provides an easy way to set things
the way I like them. Some old programs and hardware will no longer work
properly. It is quite easy to find (free) replacements for most of the
programs but I also installed the free VirtualBox. The laptop now runs a
Win XP virtual machine which I can use for various ancient things such
as Outlook Express or my Agfa scanner which I bought when I was running
Windows 98!

  #8  
Old January 10th 19, 12:08 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,625
Default laptops (was: Win XP to Win 10?)

In message , Bill in Co
writes:
[]
If I ever went out and bought one of these nice new svelte laptops, like
I've seen on display at some stores here, I'd probably just scrap the latter
two.

I wonder if anybody gets so used to a laptop that it ends up replacing their
desktop for almost everything they need to do (for home or limited work use,
I mean).

I bought my first laptop (W9x era), intending to use it only when
travelling or in other situations where my tower machine couldn't be
taken. (I also didn't think I'd get on with a trackpad.) It became my
main machine - I was going to say rapidly, but it might have been
gradually. I have since used laptops for all my computing needs - my
desktop machines going initially weeks then months between being turned
on, and I think it might be over a year now. (And I have got very used
to a trackpad: I have a mouse, but rarely plug it in - of late, mainly
for when the trackpad [driver] misbehaves rather than needing the
differences.)

I'd say my main initial concerns re laptops fell into three areas:
limited keyboard, all-in-one-ness, and (in practice) no slots.

Limited keyboard - I was fortunate in that my first laptop still had the
sixpack; I _did_ find the second laptop irritating in having home and
end combined with something else and needing the Fn key. (Fortunately
this one has brought them back.) Also the lack of a numeric keypad (you
get one on _most_ 15" or more laptops anyway these days) meant I
couldn't use the Alt-numpad codes I'd memorised for things like the +/-
symbol, but in practice I've found a little utility called AllChars
actually easier (the sequences are easier to remember!).

All-in-one-ness - i. e. if one part fails, you have to junk the lot.
This hasn't been as much of a problem as I thought: things that have
failed - disc drive was easy to replace; a screen wasn't _too_ hard; and
a wireless card, I just used an external one. (That was on someone
else's machine that had lots of USB and she didn't use them anyway; had
it been me, I might have replaced the card - fiddly, but not difficult.)
The one case that _is_ irritating is where - I think - the internal
power supply (that takes the 19V or battery and gives the internal
supplies) has failed and thus rendered the laptop dead, whereas I think
most of it is actually alive.

No slots (I say in practice because, although in theory laptops can have
them, [a] many don't [b] the standards for laptop expansion slots change
with bewildering rapidity) - I think I was fortunate in that my
transition to laptops coincided with a large move of peripherals that
had previously used cards, to USB. This has continued, accompanied by
changes in desktop slot standards, from PCI (IDE was already dead) to
PCI-E and later, as well as graphic card slots. These changes in both
laptop and desktop slot standards have mostly _not_ been
backward-compatible, unlike USB. My transition has probably also, if I'm
honest, accompanied my changing outlook with ageing: I have less
_desire_ to use things that need plug-in cards (and aren't available via
USB).

Another advantage of laptops is that they have a poor man's UPS: brief
power outages don't crash them, even if the battery's in a poor state,
and can move from room to room without shutting down.

I can see that a proper desktop, with a big keyboard and monitor, still
holds its attraction for those with a settled lifestyle, _or_ who are
willing to switch between devices when they travel or visit. Also, for
those needing special machines - number-crunching, gaming, and so on.
For me, the ability to now take this my main computer wherever I go (not
relying on syncing services) means I can't see me ever going back to a
desktop as my main machine: in fact other than lethargy and nostalgia
I'm not sure why I keep my desktop. But - this is just me; YMMV, and I'm
certainly not saying anyone _should_ change. I just thought I'd answer
Bill-in-Co's question from my own experience.

JPG
---


How about a three-way referendum, allowing second choices?
--
Are petitions unfair? See 255soft.uk (YOUR VOTE COUNTS)! [Pass it on.]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

A man is not contemptible because he thinks science explains everything, and a
man is not contemptible because he doesn't. - Howard Jacobson, in Radio Times
2010/1/23-29.
  #9  
Old January 10th 19, 01:03 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 8,835
Default Win XP to Win 10?

Bill in Co wrote:

I have two old used eBay laptops (one with Win XP, one
with Windows 7), which I rarely use..


So the Win7 one would be your "trial candidate" for Windows 10.

If it's Win7 SP1 x64 Home Premium, try installing Windows 10 x64 Home over it.

If it's Win7 SP1 x86 Professional, try installing Windows 10 x86 Pro over it.

For a "free" upgrade, the "class" of the install has to match.

It's still possible for a CPU on a Win7 box, to not
be sufficient for Windows 10, but that's the most
likely limiting factor.

Both Win7 and Win10 work with 1GB of RAM. The "kernel portion"
of the OS (i.e. squeeze out all the fat) is about 350MB or so.
Using 1GB of RAM leaves room to work.

In terms of "comfort"

1) Single core computer "works", but many common activities
might seem slow. Firefox with five processes running, railed
while it loads Yahoo News, is going to be slightly worse
than it is on Windows 7. This is because Windows 10 has little
maintenance things it will be doing in the background.

2) Graphics drivers for Windows 10 are limited by the
hardware companies. An FX5200 for example, would be running
the Microsoft Basic Display Adapter. My HD6450 PCIe video card
got one driver of merit and support has stopped. The card
runs at native resolution. When the Microsoft Basic Display Adapter
runs the show, you get 1024x768 (even on a 16:9 display).

3) A "best config" would be a quad core processor, to give some
bandwidth for the background stuff, and leave a bit for you.

You have the materials to test, but it'll be your Win7 laptop
as a (possible) candidate with no guarantees. The screen will likely
run at 1024x768.

*******

On a laptop, when it gets super-thin, there's no cooling fan.
The CPU/GPU heat is dumped into the base.

The processor then has two limits. It has a "power limiter" that
throttles if the electrical demands of the processor are too high.
It also has the usual "thermal throttles". It will allow "bursts",
so on a single threaded task (with no OS background activity),
it might seem fast. But as soon as there is background activity, it's
going to disable turbo. There is at least one enthusiast class
processor, where the turbo is set up for two cores, which allows
some amount of annoying Windows 10 activity, while you "bench"
on the other core.

With the thermal limiter, you could start a movie transcode, and
be doing 60FPS processing for the first 15 seconds, and then
the frames per second processed gradually drop to a lower number.
The cooler you keep the base, the more the speed can rise again.

If the laptop is thicker and has tradition "air cooling", you might
have more headroom. Air cooling also allows cheaper competitor
CPU choices which happen to not be as efficient. Air cooling
should allow a cheaper "performant" laptop to be built.

Thin devices used eMMC Flash storage. A device with 32GB of disk
space, stores things in a single flash chip. If the flash chip
fails, nobody is going to offer you a repair strategy (chip
must be un-soldered to replace). A wiser purchase is a machine
with at least one bay for a 2.5" drive. Which can take a SATA SSD.
And be replaced if there is an issue.

HTH,
Paul
  #10  
Old January 10th 19, 01:56 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Tim Slattery[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 196
Default Win XP to Win 10?

MikeS wrote:


Two things to keep in mind. I don't like the new Start Menu much so I
installed Classic Start Menu which provides an easy way to set things
the way I like them.


That's fine if that suits you. I intended to do that, but I was
surrised to find that the Win10 Start menu was just fine for me. (A
lot better then the Win8 start menu -- which didn't exist).



Some old programs and hardware will no longer work
properly.


I've heard such claims, but I haven't run into it myself. I guess I'd
already replaced any 16 bit programs I used to use. (Microsoft's
64-bit OSs won't run 16 bit programs, 32-bit OSs will. and device
drivers might be a problem if you're making a really big jump, like XP
to Win10) There are plenty of things available - including free and/or
Open Source programs, and they work just fine - often better than the
old ones.

It is quite easy to find (free) replacements for most of the
programs but I also installed the free VirtualBox. The laptop now runs a
Win XP virtual machine which I can use for various ancient things such
as Outlook Express or my Agfa scanner which I bought when I was running
Windows 98!


That's also a good solution.

--
Tim Slattery
tim at risingdove dot com
  #11  
Old January 10th 19, 01:59 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,355
Default laptops (was: Win XP to Win 10?)

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

| Another advantage of laptops is that they have a poor man's UPS: brief
| power outages don't crash them, even if the battery's in a poor state,
| and can move from room to room without shutting down.
|
| I can see that a proper desktop, with a big keyboard and monitor, still
| holds its attraction for those with a settled lifestyle, _or_ who are
| willing to switch between devices when they travel or visit. Also, for
| those needing special machines - number-crunching, gaming, and so on.
| For me, the ability to now take this my main computer wherever I go (not
| relying on syncing services) means I can't see me ever going back to a
| desktop as my main machine

So you've joined the army of Starbucks secretaries,
earnestly staring at screens while they pretend to
be drinking coffee? (Or is it earnestly drinking coffee
while they pretend to look at screens?

I'm just the opposite of what you describe. When
I use a laptop I have it plugged in, and I don't move
from room to room. I'm also not so sure about "a
poor man's UPS". You buy a laptop for maybe $500-1200
and a UPS for $50-80. There's nothing economical
about a laptop. Small is expensive.

We have a laptop that's only used for one thing:
When I go away to the country and want to be able
to read articles saved and/or listen to audio talks.
No Internet. No typing. Just file storage and display.
I find it works OK for that. Otherwise, as far as I'm
concerned, life's too short for laptops.

Which brings up why tablets are such a bad idea.
They're more mobile than a laptop, but with an even
smaller screen, even less functionality, and limited
file access. I can't put a DVD into a tablet and then
use my choice of programs to read the files.

But doesn't it depend a lot on how you use it?
If you *must* write a report and your only free
time is on a plane, then you use a laptop. If you
can't stand to go on vacation for a week without
having email, then you use a laptop (or cellphone).
I don't do either of those things. Sometimes I miss
my computer when I go away. I figure that's a
good reason not to have access to it.

I do a fair amount of writing and reading, as well
as software coding, image editing and web design.
Sitting at a computer is best in a number of ways,
but mainly it's about ergonomics. I can sit up straight,
with a proper keyboard and trackball, and a 24" screen.
Using a laptop, to me, would be like eating dinner
out of a paper cup with a toy fork because I want
to be ready to dash out the door if necessary. I'm
not that important and my life is not that busy that
I need to live uncivilized, "on the edge of my seat".

A lot of people don't need to write reports. Many
of them wonder why anyone needs something other
than a cellphone. That seems to be the most typical
that I see now. People have a laptop somewhere,
for doing their taxes and such. But mostly they're
just Facebookies -- "doing social", texting and shopping
on their cellphones.
My neighbor, a research biologist, recently called to
ask if he could print something. He apparently has a
laptop but no printer. He just uses the one at his lab.

Most of those people answer email from a phone. It
works. But it's fooling oneself to think it's just the
same thing made easy. No one writes in any serious
way on a cellphone. If they're always on the move
so that they can't make a proper response then they're
living slapdash. They just don't realize it because
they've become so speedy. Like the email I got from
a friend yesterday: OK.thx.

It's time to stop and regroup when you find you don't
have time to type the word "thanks".


  #12  
Old January 10th 19, 02:43 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,625
Default laptops (was: Win XP to Win 10?)

In message , Mayayana
writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

| Another advantage of laptops is that they have a poor man's UPS: brief
| power outages don't crash them, even if the battery's in a poor state,
| and can move from room to room without shutting down.
|
| I can see that a proper desktop, with a big keyboard and monitor, still
| holds its attraction for those with a settled lifestyle, _or_ who are
| willing to switch between devices when they travel or visit. Also, for
| those needing special machines - number-crunching, gaming, and so on.
| For me, the ability to now take this my main computer wherever I go (not
| relying on syncing services) means I can't see me ever going back to a
| desktop as my main machine

So you've joined the army of Starbucks secretaries,
earnestly staring at screens while they pretend to
be drinking coffee? (Or is it earnestly drinking coffee
while they pretend to look at screens?


(-: [I don't actually go to the expensive coffee-shops.]

I'm just the opposite of what you describe. When
I use a laptop I have it plugged in, and I don't move


Me too. I hardly use it on battery at all.

from room to room. I'm also not so sure about "a
poor man's UPS". You buy a laptop for maybe $500-1200
and a UPS for $50-80. There's nothing economical
about a laptop. Small is expensive.


I suppose I meant that the UPS function comes free, as it were, with a
laptop, unless the battery's completely shot.

We have a laptop that's only used for one thing:
When I go away to the country and want to be able
to read articles saved and/or listen to audio talks.
No Internet. No typing. Just file storage and display.


If that's the use - especially the no-typing part -and you're willing to
switch between it and your desktop machine, I think a tablet would be
better: longer battery life and lighter.

I find it works OK for that. Otherwise, as far as I'm
concerned, life's too short for laptops.


Everyone's M Vs.

Which brings up why tablets are such a bad idea.
They're more mobile than a laptop, but with an even
smaller screen, even less functionality, and limited
file access.


And for me, no keyboard. As for buying a case for them with a keyboard
in it, doesn't that then just turn them into a very inferior laptop!
(OK, with longer battery life.) But for your just-reading-and-listening,
I'd have thought they're fine.
[]
But doesn't it depend a lot on how you use it?
If you *must* write a report and your only free
time is on a plane, then you use a laptop. If you
can't stand to go on vacation for a week without
having email, then you use a laptop (or cellphone).
I don't do either of those things. Sometimes I miss
my computer when I go away. I figure that's a
good reason not to have access to it.


(-:

I do a fair amount of writing and reading, as well
as software coding, image editing and web design.
Sitting at a computer is best in a number of ways,
but mainly it's about ergonomics. I can sit up straight,
with a proper keyboard and trackball, and a 24" screen.


I can sit or lie anywhere with my laptop. (Even on my lap, sometimes!)
As long as there's a powerpoint nearby.
[]
A lot of people don't need to write reports. Many
of them wonder why anyone needs something other
than a cellphone. That seems to be the most typical
that I see now. People have a laptop somewhere,
for doing their taxes and such. But mostly they're
just Facebookies -- "doing social", texting and shopping
on their cellphones.


I don't do any of the modern social media (I consider usenet a [very
superior of course] social medium, of course). I rarely use my
smartphone: I really only bought it as a replacement when my dumbphone
died. About the only "app" (I hate that word) I use on it at all
regularly is the wifi network grapher.

My neighbor, a research biologist, recently called to
ask if he could print something. He apparently has a
laptop but no printer. He just uses the one at his lab.


I don't have a functioning one at the moment; I rarely need to print. I
used to do all my printing at work, when I was working. (I'm broken -
not working - now.)

Most of those people answer email from a phone. It
works. But it's fooling oneself to think it's just the
same thing made easy. No one writes in any serious
way on a cellphone. If they're always on the move


Thoroughly agree.
[]
a friend yesterday: OK.thx.

It's time to stop and regroup when you find you don't
have time to type the word "thanks".

(-:

[]

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)[email protected]+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that
may never be questioned.
  #13  
Old January 10th 19, 03:19 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Zaidy036[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 413
Default laptops

On 1/10/2019 8:59 AM, Mayayana wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

| Another advantage of laptops is that they have a poor man's UPS: brief
| power outages don't crash them, even if the battery's in a poor state,
| and can move from room to room without shutting down.
|
| I can see that a proper desktop, with a big keyboard and monitor, still
| holds its attraction for those with a settled lifestyle, _or_ who are
| willing to switch between devices when they travel or visit. Also, for
| those needing special machines - number-crunching, gaming, and so on.
| For me, the ability to now take this my main computer wherever I go (not
| relying on syncing services) means I can't see me ever going back to a
| desktop as my main machine

So you've joined the army of Starbucks secretaries,
earnestly staring at screens while they pretend to
be drinking coffee? (Or is it earnestly drinking coffee
while they pretend to look at screens?

I'm just the opposite of what you describe. When
I use a laptop I have it plugged in, and I don't move
from room to room. I'm also not so sure about "a
poor man's UPS". You buy a laptop for maybe $500-1200
and a UPS for $50-80. There's nothing economical
about a laptop. Small is expensive.

We have a laptop that's only used for one thing:
When I go away to the country and want to be able
to read articles saved and/or listen to audio talks.
No Internet. No typing. Just file storage and display.
I find it works OK for that. Otherwise, as far as I'm
concerned, life's too short for laptops.

Which brings up why tablets are such a bad idea.
They're more mobile than a laptop, but with an even
smaller screen, even less functionality, and limited
file access. I can't put a DVD into a tablet and then
use my choice of programs to read the files.

But doesn't it depend a lot on how you use it?
If you *must* write a report and your only free
time is on a plane, then you use a laptop. If you
can't stand to go on vacation for a week without
having email, then you use a laptop (or cellphone).
I don't do either of those things. Sometimes I miss
my computer when I go away. I figure that's a
good reason not to have access to it.

I do a fair amount of writing and reading, as well
as software coding, image editing and web design.
Sitting at a computer is best in a number of ways,
but mainly it's about ergonomics. I can sit up straight,
with a proper keyboard and trackball, and a 24" screen.
Using a laptop, to me, would be like eating dinner
out of a paper cup with a toy fork because I want
to be ready to dash out the door if necessary. I'm
not that important and my life is not that busy that
I need to live uncivilized, "on the edge of my seat".

A lot of people don't need to write reports. Many
of them wonder why anyone needs something other
than a cellphone. That seems to be the most typical
that I see now. People have a laptop somewhere,
for doing their taxes and such. But mostly they're
just Facebookies -- "doing social", texting and shopping
on their cellphones.
My neighbor, a research biologist, recently called to
ask if he could print something. He apparently has a
laptop but no printer. He just uses the one at his lab.

Most of those people answer email from a phone. It
works. But it's fooling oneself to think it's just the
same thing made easy. No one writes in any serious
way on a cellphone. If they're always on the move
so that they can't make a proper response then they're
living slapdash. They just don't realize it because
they've become so speedy. Like the email I got from
a friend yesterday: OK.thx.

It's time to stop and regroup when you find you don't
have time to type the word "thanks".


But you can load any file onto a tablet using a free program called "Air
Transfer" so CD/DVD not required. iPad is very light and better for
travel. Easy to use on airplane. Admit typing vs. laptop not the best.

--
Zaidy036
  #14  
Old January 10th 19, 04:05 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,991
Default laptops

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

In message , Bill in Co
writes:
[]
If I ever went out and bought one of these nice new svelte laptops, like
I've seen on display at some stores here, I'd probably just scrap the latter
two.

I wonder if anybody gets so used to a laptop that it ends up replacing their
desktop for almost everything they need to do (for home or limited work use,
I mean).

I bought my first laptop (W9x era), intending to use it only when
travelling or in other situations where my tower machine couldn't be
taken. (I also didn't think I'd get on with a trackpad.) It became my
main machine - I was going to say rapidly, but it might have been
gradually. I have since used laptops for all my computing needs - my
desktop machines going initially weeks then months between being turned
on, and I think it might be over a year now. (And I have got very used
to a trackpad: I have a mouse, but rarely plug it in - of late, mainly
for when the trackpad [driver] misbehaves rather than needing the
differences.)

I'd say my main initial concerns re laptops fell into three areas:
limited keyboard, all-in-one-ness, and (in practice) no slots.

Limited keyboard - I was fortunate in that my first laptop still had the
sixpack; I _did_ find the second laptop irritating in having home and
end combined with something else and needing the Fn key. (Fortunately
this one has brought them back.) Also the lack of a numeric keypad (you
get one on _most_ 15" or more laptops anyway these days) meant I
couldn't use the Alt-numpad codes I'd memorised for things like the +/-
symbol, but in practice I've found a little utility called AllChars
actually easier (the sequences are easier to remember!).

All-in-one-ness - i. e. if one part fails, you have to junk the lot.
This hasn't been as much of a problem as I thought: things that have
failed - disc drive was easy to replace; a screen wasn't _too_ hard; and
a wireless card, I just used an external one. (That was on someone
else's machine that had lots of USB and she didn't use them anyway; had
it been me, I might have replaced the card - fiddly, but not difficult.)
The one case that _is_ irritating is where - I think - the internal
power supply (that takes the 19V or battery and gives the internal
supplies) has failed and thus rendered the laptop dead, whereas I think
most of it is actually alive.

No slots (I say in practice because, although in theory laptops can have
them, [a] many don't [b] the standards for laptop expansion slots change
with bewildering rapidity) - I think I was fortunate in that my
transition to laptops coincided with a large move of peripherals that
had previously used cards, to USB. This has continued, accompanied by
changes in desktop slot standards, from PCI (IDE was already dead) to
PCI-E and later, as well as graphic card slots. These changes in both
laptop and desktop slot standards have mostly _not_ been
backward-compatible, unlike USB. My transition has probably also, if I'm
honest, accompanied my changing outlook with ageing: I have less
_desire_ to use things that need plug-in cards (and aren't available via
USB).

Another advantage of laptops is that they have a poor man's UPS: brief
power outages don't crash them, even if the battery's in a poor state,
and can move from room to room without shutting down.

I can see that a proper desktop, with a big keyboard and monitor, still
holds its attraction for those with a settled lifestyle, _or_ who are
willing to switch between devices when they travel or visit. Also, for
those needing special machines - number-crunching, gaming, and so on.
For me, the ability to now take this my main computer wherever I go (not
relying on syncing services) means I can't see me ever going back to a
desktop as my main machine: in fact other than lethargy and nostalgia
I'm not sure why I keep my desktop. But - this is just me; YMMV, and I'm
certainly not saying anyone _should_ change. I just thought I'd answer
Bill-in-Co's question from my own experience.

JPG
---

How about a three-way referendum, allowing second choices?


When travelling, a Chromebook is more than sufficient. No matter what
portable computer I take, almost all (perhaps all) of what I need to do
while travelling will incur a web browser. E-mail, remoting to work,
buying tickets, checking restaurant hours, getting directions and
mapping, finding entertainment, ordering stuff, and just about anything
I do while travelling is done via a web browser and that's what a
Chromebook does. If I don't have the Internet while travelling (via
wifi, cable, or cellular data), it doesn't matter what I bring since it
won't be usable to me. My choice is one of convenience, not of
functionality. I have a laptop, netbook, and Chromebook along with my
smartphone and none are convenient nor comfortable nor speedy for
entering a lot of text or doing much beyond using a web browser. The
human interface of these portable devices suck. You could use a docking
station to connect to a better monitor, keyboard, and mouse but that's
only needed if you cannot afford a decent desktop PC.

At home, the Chromebook collects dust. There is no way it or a tablet
or a laptop (even those loaned to me from work) are robust enough in CPU
and GPU to do my home-based computer work. I see no reason to struggle
to perform compiling, graphics editing, documentation, or other tasks
using an underpowered laptop or less.

I can afford a robust desktop along with convenient portable computers
and a decent smartphone. If you can afford just one choice, what you
choose depends on whether you really need to tote something with you
when moving around. My smartphone suffices for most portability needs.
The Chromebook is for everyone in the group to share and is better for
keyboarding than the crappy touch keyboard on a smartphone. On
vacation, the resorts have their own computer rooms and you can find
lots of Internet cafes or even libraries, so you could afford to forego
bringing your own. If you can afford more than one choice for a
computing platform, pick those that match your needs under varying
conditions, and that likely results in choosing more than one computer.

When I'm at home, I use Charmin Ultra Strong in mega rolls. When I'm
away from home, I use whatever cheap toilet paper the store, resort, or
other place provides. That doesn't mean I prefer the cheap stuff. It's
simply convenient but not preferred. Using a Chromebook, laptop, or
netbook is like you toting along the cheap toilet paper because it is
lightweight (both in weight and in computing power). It is possible to
use PCs of others (Internet cafes, libraries, resorts) but that relies
on someone else to provide the cheap toilet paper.

I could tote a screwdriver in my pocket and use it for various purposes,
like as a hammer, pry bar, ice chopper, door wedge, and even as a
screwdriver. However, at home I have the proper tools for the jobs. I
would hardly equate a single screwdriver to the multitudes of toolboxes,
tool cabinets, pegboards, and benches with all my tools. I also carry a
couple of Gerber mini-multitools in my pockets. Very handy when away
from my cache of tools at home but nowhere near the same functionality.
I could use the serrated saw in the minitool to cut a hole in sheetrock
but I have much better tools for that at home, or even in my car in a
toolbox. I have tools of convenience, tools that are portable, and
tools best for the job because I can afford to choose. I'd hate to be
so poor as to choose just one and try to use it under all scenarios.
  #15  
Old January 10th 19, 04:06 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,355
Default laptops

"Zaidy036" wrote

| But you can load any file onto a tablet using a free program called "Air
| Transfer" so CD/DVD not required.

Air transfer from....? You've suddenly brought
in a need for a computer and bluetooth in order
to read files on this supposedly portable device.
What if I have 3 DVDs I want to access? I'm going
to load it all via bluetooth onto an overpriced iPad?
Wouldn't it be easier to just pack up my computer
in styrofoam and take that? And then I can read on
a human-sized screen.

We actually have an iPad here. I've never really
looked at it. I have no reason to research how and
if I can shoehorn the file formats I want onto that
tiny device and whether I can get good software
to open them. My ladyfriend bought the iPad. She
uses it only occasionally, to write email when away
travelling.

| iPad is very light and better for
| travel. Easy to use on airplane. Admit typing vs. laptop not the best.
|

A lot of people seem to agree with you. All
I see is a smaller screen with more limited
functionality with a lot less control. Even when
I travel with a laptop, I'm not carrying it around
to coffee shops or using it on planes. I pack it
and use it at the other end. So losing a couple
of pounds holds no appeal.

I once went with a friend to check out tablets.
I asked the Apple disciple if I could access the file
system on an iPad. He didn't understand. After
much conferring he said that, yes, there's an app for
that. It's called Exporer! I though it was very telling
that he hadn't thought of managing files.

Then we went to the Microsoft store. They had
tablets with full Windows for about $500. That
was impressive. It really was Windows, not just
a limited kiosk OS. But then I realized: I could buy
the same thing as a desktop or laptop, probably
for less money, with a lot better functionality. For
me, since I don't have to carry it all day, smaller
just means less functional. A tricycle saves on
gas, yes, but it doesn't do what a car does.




 




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