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Offtopic: Outlook10 & Rules.



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 25th 18, 03:23 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Peter Jason
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,310
Default Offtopic: Outlook10 & Rules.

I have imported outlook10 from my old Windows10
machine into a new one.

Also I imported the Rules with its Wizard.

It worked, except all the rules are now showing
"error".
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  #2  
Old April 25th 18, 07:26 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Offtopic: Outlook10 & Rules.

Peter Jason wrote:
I have imported outlook10 from my old Windows10
machine into a new one.

Also I imported the Rules with its Wizard.

It worked, except all the rules are now showing
"error".


Which could mean that some property doesn't match,
between the two setups.

The user account on the machine has a SID. Every
time you install Windows, the SID changes. There are
three long strings of digits I show approximately, to
show the "dice roll" portion of the SID. The last
number on the end, the user accounts start from
decimal 1000. Whereas the Real Administrator is 500.
Your first account might belong to the Administator
Group, but the account number still starts at 1000.

111111111-222222222-333333333-1000 Peter on machine #1

444444444-555555555-666666666-1001 Peter on machine #2

At the file sharing level, you may open up the permissions
on a share, and make it look like "Peter" is "Peter"
(because every time you drop a file in there, you seem
to own it OK). That might give people the mistaken impression
that from a computer science perspective, all the accounts
on their machines are "the same". When they aren't (exactly).
They just give that appearance some times.

But at a detailed level, those numbers are different
and could cause a problem.

A person designing a Wizard for importation, should be
only too aware of that sort of issue. But what other
Property could they have broken ? What Property wouldn't
work on a second machine ?

*******

https://support.office.com/en-us/art...8-ded54b3440ac

"Outlook does not export meta-data such as folder properties
(views, permissions, and AutoArchive settings); message rules;
and blocked senders lists. So, they won't be imported, either."

https://support.office.com/en-us/art...0-f1be733b3d6e

It would help to have the *error message text* .

Paul
  #3  
Old April 25th 18, 09:07 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 27
Default Offtopic: Outlook10 & Rules.

"Peter Jason" wrote in message
...

I have imported outlook10 from my old Windows10
machine into a new one.
Also I imported the Rules with its Wizard.
It worked, except all the rules are now showing "error".


While Paul is correct about the SID, in the case of Outlook it's not
entirely the whole picture.

Outlook has more hooks than SID - logon username, \\ComputerName, and email
account(s).

Importing Outlook's pst and/or rules is also not the best approach for
migrating from Outlook 2010 on Win10 to Outlook 2010 on Windows 10.

In the future, rather than importing outlook and importing rules to another
device
- copy the pst file to the same folder location(the default is
C:\Users\windows logon name\Documents\Outlook Files), then install
Outlook. If you did not renamed the Outlook.pst file(or profile) from its
default name all mail, accounts, and settings should be intact.
- **no need to import the rules since in Outlook 2010 rules are stored in
the pst file(i.e. if you have the pst file in Outlook 2010 you also have
the rules)**
- In Outlook 2010 rules are store on per mailbox basis(i.e if one or more
email account is assigned to the one same pst file, then you only have one
mailbox and all rules in the pst file apply to all email accounts.
- you may still need to reset some rules by revalidating a rules individual
selection or action(due to the above noted 'hooks')


-- --
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ
msft mvp 2007-2016, insider mvp 2016-2018

  #4  
Old April 25th 18, 05:43 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
A.M
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 363
Default Offtopic: Outlook10 & Rules.

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 12:23:35 +1000, Peter Jason wrote:

I have imported outlook10 from my old Windows10
machine into a new one.

Also I imported the Rules with its Wizard.

It worked, except all the rules are now showing
"error".


is there a question attached to your post?
  #5  
Old April 26th 18, 06:55 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Peter Jason
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,310
Default Offtopic: Outlook10 & Rules.

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 01:07:00 -0700, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ
wrote:

"Peter Jason" wrote in message
.. .

I have imported outlook10 from my old Windows10
machine into a new one.
Also I imported the Rules with its Wizard.
It worked, except all the rules are now showing "error".


While Paul is correct about the SID, in the case of Outlook it's not
entirely the whole picture.

Outlook has more hooks than SID - logon username, \\ComputerName, and email
account(s).

Importing Outlook's pst and/or rules is also not the best approach for
migrating from Outlook 2010 on Win10 to Outlook 2010 on Windows 10.

In the future, rather than importing outlook and importing rules to another
device
- copy the pst file to the same folder location(the default is
C:\Users\windows logon name\Documents\Outlook Files), then install
Outlook. If you did not renamed the Outlook.pst file(or profile) from its
default name all mail, accounts, and settings should be intact.
- **no need to import the rules since in Outlook 2010 rules are stored in
the pst file(i.e. if you have the pst file in Outlook 2010 you also have
the rules)**
- In Outlook 2010 rules are store on per mailbox basis(i.e if one or more
email account is assigned to the one same pst file, then you only have one
mailbox and all rules in the pst file apply to all email accounts.
- you may still need to reset some rules by revalidating a rules individual
selection or action(due to the above noted 'hooks')


-- --
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ
msft mvp 2007-2016, insider mvp 2016-2018



Thanks, I copied the original PST files to the
Outlook Folder (for some reason there are a few,
but I selected the most recent (todays) as the
"default data file") over to the new computer, and
the Rules came across from the old to the new. The
data file is as above, but the Contacts are coming
from a different file in the Outlook folder.
I think I'll leave well enough alone now; at least
it's working.
  #6  
Old April 26th 18, 07:11 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Peter Jason
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,310
Default Offtopic: Outlook10 & Rules.

On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 02:26:51 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Peter Jason wrote:
I have imported outlook10 from my old Windows10
machine into a new one.

Also I imported the Rules with its Wizard.

It worked, except all the rules are now showing
"error".


Which could mean that some property doesn't match,
between the two setups.

The user account on the machine has a SID. Every
time you install Windows, the SID changes. There are
three long strings of digits I show approximately, to
show the "dice roll" portion of the SID. The last
number on the end, the user accounts start from
decimal 1000. Whereas the Real Administrator is 500.
Your first account might belong to the Administator
Group, but the account number still starts at 1000.

111111111-222222222-333333333-1000 Peter on machine #1

444444444-555555555-666666666-1001 Peter on machine #2

At the file sharing level, you may open up the permissions
on a share, and make it look like "Peter" is "Peter"
(because every time you drop a file in there, you seem
to own it OK). That might give people the mistaken impression
that from a computer science perspective, all the accounts
on their machines are "the same". When they aren't (exactly).
They just give that appearance some times.

But at a detailed level, those numbers are different
and could cause a problem.

A person designing a Wizard for importation, should be
only too aware of that sort of issue. But what other
Property could they have broken ? What Property wouldn't
work on a second machine ?

*******

https://support.office.com/en-us/art...8-ded54b3440ac

"Outlook does not export meta-data such as folder properties
(views, permissions, and AutoArchive settings); message rules;
and blocked senders lists. So, they won't be imported, either."

https://support.office.com/en-us/art...0-f1be733b3d6e

It would help to have the *error message text* .

Paul


I tried the Outlook10 export function ("export to
a file") after doing a repair using the file from
the Office14 folder.

My total Outlook10 is about 4.3GB

It began OK but stopped and stuttered continuously
throught, and the only way to complete the job
was to sit at the computer for an hour giving the
mouse a nudge whenever the exporting threatened to
stop. Then it finished OK without any
acknowledgement.

At the other end at the new computer, the
Outlook10 Import Wiz sailed through OK, but it was
this result that gave the corrupted "Rules".

I now ask: what's the best way to do a routine
backup of Outlook10? I do a simple backup in
Access10 by pressing the "Backup Database" that
takes me to a selected folder and places that
backup with its date.

By the way, what is the total file sizes possible
on the system SSD? I have about 100GB of
documents in the "Documents" folder, and about
50GB of photos in the "Pictures" folder, a vast
number of videos in the "Videos" folder. Is all
this too much for a 500GB SSD and does all this
cause slowing down and sluggish access?
  #7  
Old April 26th 18, 08:07 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Offtopic: Outlook10 & Rules.

Peter Jason wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 01:07:00 -0700, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ
wrote:

"Peter Jason" wrote in message
...

I have imported outlook10 from my old Windows10
machine into a new one.
Also I imported the Rules with its Wizard.
It worked, except all the rules are now showing "error".


While Paul is correct about the SID, in the case of Outlook it's not
entirely the whole picture.

Outlook has more hooks than SID - logon username, \\ComputerName, and email
account(s).

Importing Outlook's pst and/or rules is also not the best approach for
migrating from Outlook 2010 on Win10 to Outlook 2010 on Windows 10.

In the future, rather than importing outlook and importing rules to another
device
- copy the pst file to the same folder location(the default is
C:\Users\windows logon name\Documents\Outlook Files), then install
Outlook. If you did not renamed the Outlook.pst file(or profile) from its
default name all mail, accounts, and settings should be intact.
- **no need to import the rules since in Outlook 2010 rules are stored in
the pst file(i.e. if you have the pst file in Outlook 2010 you also have
the rules)**
- In Outlook 2010 rules are store on per mailbox basis(i.e if one or more
email account is assigned to the one same pst file, then you only have one
mailbox and all rules in the pst file apply to all email accounts.
- you may still need to reset some rules by revalidating a rules individual
selection or action(due to the above noted 'hooks')


-- --
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ
msft mvp 2007-2016, insider mvp 2016-2018



Thanks, I copied the original PST files to the
Outlook Folder (for some reason there are a few,
but I selected the most recent (todays) as the
"default data file") over to the new computer, and
the Rules came across from the old to the new. The
data file is as above, but the Contacts are coming
from a different file in the Outlook folder.
I think I'll leave well enough alone now; at least
it's working.


Fyi....since Outlook 2007, contacts are stored in the pst file.
If the contacts are coming from a different file in the Outlook folder,
they were coming from a different file on the previous computer.

If you created multiple email accounts in Outlook 2010, you may have
missed, during account creation on the prior device, the option to
configure the account to use the same pst file(i.e. letting it create
another unique-to-email-account pst) thus the multiple pst files.

Contacts, unless Exchange, are stored in the, unless changed by the
user, the default Outlook profile - by design, named 'Outlook'. An
Outlook Profile is nothing more than a configuration with a single data
file(the pst file).
- In the past some folks prefer multiple profiles to ensure email
accounts are assigned to different pst files, but since Outlook 2007 the
option as noted above is built-in during account creation to assign an
email account to its own, a previous[normally Outlook.pst created on
first use of Outlook] or another available or new pst)

To see your profile name:
- Control Panel(Desktop app)/Mail/Show Profiles

If one has tweaked Outlook(or for some other reason deviate from
default(multiple profiles or who knows what) then it's entirely possible
the reason for fragmentation of contacts.

At this stage, your only option without more information, is to export
contacts from whatever pst you think they reside in and import them to
whatever preferred pst you decide to use.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ
msft mvp 2007-2016, insider mvp 2016-2018
  #8  
Old April 26th 18, 08:27 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Offtopic: Outlook10 & Rules.

Peter Jason wrote:
On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 02:26:51 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Peter Jason wrote:
I have imported outlook10 from my old Windows10
machine into a new one.

Also I imported the Rules with its Wizard.

It worked, except all the rules are now showing
"error".

Which could mean that some property doesn't match,
between the two setups.

The user account on the machine has a SID. Every
time you install Windows, the SID changes. There are
three long strings of digits I show approximately, to
show the "dice roll" portion of the SID. The last
number on the end, the user accounts start from
decimal 1000. Whereas the Real Administrator is 500.
Your first account might belong to the Administator
Group, but the account number still starts at 1000.

111111111-222222222-333333333-1000 Peter on machine #1

444444444-555555555-666666666-1001 Peter on machine #2

At the file sharing level, you may open up the permissions
on a share, and make it look like "Peter" is "Peter"
(because every time you drop a file in there, you seem
to own it OK). That might give people the mistaken impression
that from a computer science perspective, all the accounts
on their machines are "the same". When they aren't (exactly).
They just give that appearance some times.

But at a detailed level, those numbers are different
and could cause a problem.

A person designing a Wizard for importation, should be
only too aware of that sort of issue. But what other
Property could they have broken ? What Property wouldn't
work on a second machine ?

*******

https://support.office.com/en-us/art...8-ded54b3440ac

"Outlook does not export meta-data such as folder properties
(views, permissions, and AutoArchive settings); message rules;
and blocked senders lists. So, they won't be imported, either."

https://support.office.com/en-us/art...0-f1be733b3d6e

It would help to have the *error message text* .

Paul


I tried the Outlook10 export function ("export to
a file") after doing a repair using the file from
the Office14 folder.

My total Outlook10 is about 4.3GB

It began OK but stopped and stuttered continuously
throught, and the only way to complete the job
was to sit at the computer for an hour giving the
mouse a nudge whenever the exporting threatened to
stop. Then it finished OK without any
acknowledgement.

At the other end at the new computer, the
Outlook10 Import Wiz sailed through OK, but it was
this result that gave the corrupted "Rules".

I now ask: what's the best way to do a routine
backup of Outlook10? I do a simple backup in
Access10 by pressing the "Backup Database" that
takes me to a selected folder and places that
backup with its date.

By the way, what is the total file sizes possible
on the system SSD? I have about 100GB of
documents in the "Documents" folder, and about
50GB of photos in the "Pictures" folder, a vast
number of videos in the "Videos" folder. Is all
this too much for a 500GB SSD and does all this
cause slowing down and sluggish access?


100+50+20(OS) is not too much for a 500GB.

The performance should be nice and consistent
on writes, at that level.

Keeping the size from hitting the very end,
might allow the drive to rearrange data slightly
more efficiently in some cases. The drive is
over-provisioned slightly to account for the
need to fill it to the very end, and not using
it to the very end on writes, is how users can help out.

Your question seems to revolve around reads, and
finding Outlook Export is stuttering when doing the
export. If Outlook is working at the message level,
it's simply making a lot of tiny reads against the
file. And contrary to what the manufacturer wrote on
the tin of your SSD, the OS stack is slower at some
of this stuff, than the hardware. The OS is a bottleneck
for small transactions, compared to the 85000 operations
per second an SSD might be capable of.

You should though, do a quick HDTune read test, to satisfy
yourself there isn't a "mushy TLC" problem. On a
good drive, you expect to see a flat line at ~500MB/sec.
The Corsair Neutron I bought and returned, sections of
it would only read at ~130MB/sec (on a SATA III port).
HDTune is not a "small read" test by any means, so when
you do that test case, it's just proving the drive doesn't
have an internal architecture issue that affects sustained
transfer rates.

*******

For backups, I would use the normal backup software.
If you wanted to go around "copying PST" files or the
equivalent, you'd want to make absolutely sure the
tool isn't running in the background and has a handle
on the file, if hand-copying. I don't know if Outlook
is sneaky and does that sort of background stuff or not.

Backup tools (at least 20 different designs) all use
VSS for backup as their preferred method. Microsoft is
supposed to have a handler for their software like
Outlook, which quiesces the usage of the file when
the VSS snapshot is made. So in theory, Outlook "cooperates"
with any volume-capturing software by means of a
request via VSS. In ten seconds, Outlook is expected
to stop using the file, until VSS has made a snapshot.

When it makes a snapshot, all it's really doing is
drawing a mark in the sand, and any new writes are
logically separated from the data in the snapshotted
version. It's a "book-keeping trick" so that the "image"
the backup software sees, remains stable until the
backup is finished.

The file system itself can still accept new writes, but
with the understanding that a new write done half-way
through the backup, doesn't get recorded in that backup.
And any new writes are captured in the next backup.

All data eventually gets backed up, but in a sense you
could be "one backup behind" for the few writes that
happen while the backup is running. Once VSS goes
"click" and takes the snapshot, that's what gets recorded
in that backup, even if it takes half an hour to write out.
The system knows exactly what the image is supposed to
hold and the image remains stable for the duration of
the backup.

To maintain the performance of your SSD, Windows has what
we used to call the "defrag dialog". But which is referred
to as "Optimize" now. For an SSD, you should see the Optimize
do a TRIM of all free clusters. Which is a way the OS can
tell the drive "you can rearrange these areas as you wish,
as I'm not keeping data in there". TRIM is a way of improving
the free pool performance inside the SSD.

But in addition to normally using TRIM, if the OS notices
that there's a degradation due to some sort of COW (copy
on write) issue, the OS has the *option* of actually
defragmenting the drive. And the OS is supposed to be
clever enough during an Optimize, to figure this out,
and not abuse the defrag option unnecessarily. That only
cuts in, in extreme usage cases.

What I've noticed on my three copies of Windows 10, is
the Optimize has been having trouble for several months,
telling the difference between HDD and SSD. Which is
really irritating. I haven't been using the Toolkit
to see whether this is cutting into wear life. If you
look at the Optimize panel, and it looks like the SSD is
being treated like an HDD, then you should probably switch
it off there (for the time being), and use the manufacturer
Toolkit to TRIM the drive. Usually a Toolkit also has a
TRIM command too (to TRIM unused clusters and make their
status known to the drive).

Paul
 




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