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On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 14:25:06 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote: On 7/7/2018 12:54 PM, Char Jackson wrote: On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 10:19:55 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote: I am the one who suggested deleting files in SoftwareDistribution, and I can confirm that this folder can take up a lot of space. I never checked the exact number of bytes, but I know I have spent hours deleting the files. Hi Keith, I'm curious to hear why it took hours to delete those files, when I think it should have taken less than a minute. Do you have any thoughts on what was going on? Yes! First there were many folders, sub folders and files. I have selected all files in a folder and it has shown 6000 files area being deleted. Second it was on my tablet which is limited memory and a slow processor. I found an article mentioned earlier in this thread, and was shocked a the number of files I found in this folder. When you are deleting that many files even on a faster computer it takes some time. The tablet is a touch tablet, which makes makes it a pain to make the inputs, and I have never found how to do the operation mouse operation Click, Shift Click to select multiple files on the touch screen. Even if you do a select all, and delete; with thousands of files you never know if the system is hung up or is working. (I can be a bit impatient.) This is how I learned about setting the immediate delete parameter in the Recycle bin. Thanks, Keith, and thanks also to Paul for contributing his experience, as well. I guess I've seen something similar when I needed to delete over 100,000 jpg images and it took much longer than I expected. Not hours, but several minutes, as I recall. On XP, that same operation used to take about 10-20 seconds. |
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Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 14:25:06 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote: On 7/7/2018 12:54 PM, Char Jackson wrote: On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 10:19:55 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote: I am the one who suggested deleting files in SoftwareDistribution, and I can confirm that this folder can take up a lot of space. I never checked the exact number of bytes, but I know I have spent hours deleting the files. Hi Keith, I'm curious to hear why it took hours to delete those files, when I think it should have taken less than a minute. Do you have any thoughts on what was going on? Yes! First there were many folders, sub folders and files. I have selected all files in a folder and it has shown 6000 files area being deleted. Second it was on my tablet which is limited memory and a slow processor. I found an article mentioned earlier in this thread, and was shocked a the number of files I found in this folder. When you are deleting that many files even on a faster computer it takes some time. The tablet is a touch tablet, which makes makes it a pain to make the inputs, and I have never found how to do the operation mouse operation Click, Shift Click to select multiple files on the touch screen. Even if you do a select all, and delete; with thousands of files you never know if the system is hung up or is working. (I can be a bit impatient.) This is how I learned about setting the immediate delete parameter in the Recycle bin. Thanks, Keith, and thanks also to Paul for contributing his experience, as well. I guess I've seen something similar when I needed to delete over 100,000 jpg images and it took much longer than I expected. Not hours, but several minutes, as I recall. On XP, that same operation used to take about 10-20 seconds. There is a stark difference, between how Explorer.exe works when dealing with files, and how a shell-level FindNext works. I can do "dir" in a Command Prompt window, and easily list 8 million files in the window. They're sorted in alphabetical order in three columns. That means the command knew pretty close to the beginning of the output, what it had to do. Explorer.exe on the other hand, fails in the simplest and least taxing of situations. It should be a "case study for CS class" for somebody. What I can't figure out, is how "dir" and FindNext are able to sort a 40GB $MFT in no time at all, and start outputting file names... in alphabetical order. It's fast enough that "there's got to be a trick". Whereas with File Explorer, around 1 million files is a practical upper limit for "expecting the window to ever paint". And you can find/create failure test cases for Explorer with as few as 60,000 files in a single folder (the window will have a "busy icon" forever). Paul |
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On Sat, 07 Jul 2018 19:52:54 -0400, Paul wrote:
There is a stark difference, between how Explorer.exe works when dealing with files, and how a shell-level FindNext works. I can do "dir" in a Command Prompt window, and easily list 8 million files in the window. They're sorted in alphabetical order in three columns. That means the command knew pretty close to the beginning of the output, what it had to do. Explorer.exe on the other hand, fails in the simplest and least taxing of situations. It should be a "case study for CS class" for somebody. What I can't figure out, is how "dir" and FindNext are able to sort a 40GB $MFT in no time at all, and start outputting file names... in alphabetical order. It's fast enough that "there's got to be a trick". Whereas with File Explorer, around 1 million files is a practical upper limit for "expecting the window to ever paint". And you can find/create failure test cases for Explorer with as few as 60,000 files in a single folder (the window will have a "busy icon" forever). I've wondered the same things and I have no real answers. If they really wanted to, I'm sure they could address each of those performance issues, but I can only conclude that they don't want to. |
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"Paul" wrote
| There is a stark difference, between how Explorer.exe | works when dealing with files, and how a shell-level | FindNext works. | | I can do "dir" in a Command Prompt window, and easily list | 8 million files in the window. They're sorted in alphabetical | order in three columns. That means the command knew pretty | close to the beginning of the output, what it had to do. | Explorer is using FindFirstFile/FindNextFile and may even be using something better under the surface -- Microsoft's private stock. But it also has to deal with showing icons, calculating time remaining with deletes, managing shell extensions, etc. In other words, the API is just dealing with the file system. Explorer is primarily GUI functionality. And it's still tied into IE. If you look at it in Depends or a similar program you can see that kernel and ntdll are only a small part of what Explorer is dealing with It's loading wininet (IE) to parse URLs, uxtheme for the GUI theme, user32 for drawing and tracking down user display preferences, gdi for display, some unnamed functions from shdocvw (IE again).... Plus there are things like ole, browseui.dll and version.dll for collecting file info, properties, default icon, media info, etc. If you're going to deal with files in a folder in the Windows GUI, all of that comes into play. |
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On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 09:47:48 -0400, Big Al wrote:
On 07/07/2018 08:44 AM, Stan Brown wrote: "C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution" I have 881,877,855 bytes in 30 files and 32 dirs under this one. Are we sure that it's okay to delete all of them. This won't for example, cause Windows Update to take many hours next time I run it? You sure there is close to a Tera Byte of data there? Wow. Nope -- close to a gigabyte. I think it was Heinlein who said all large numbers were the same. :-) -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://BrownMath.com/ http://OakRoadSystems.com/ Shikata ga nai... |
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On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 10:19:55 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote:
One tip for the person with the problem. Before you start deleting files in this directory, go into the properties of the Recycle bin properties and check "Don't move files to Recycle bin. Remove files immediately when deleted" This will make the process go smoothly. Or, use Shift-Delete instead of Delete. That bypasses the Recycle Bin for that one operation only, so that you don't need to remember to go back and change your Recycle Bin settings a second time. -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://BrownMath.com/ http://OakRoadSystems.com/ Shikata ga nai... |
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On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 14:25:06 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote:
The tablet is a touch tablet, which makes makes it a pain to make the inputs, and I have never found how to do the operation mouse operation Click, Shift Click to select multiple files on the touch screen. Ctrl+A selects all files in the current folder. Of course there's also the command prompt. -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://BrownMath.com/ http://OakRoadSystems.com/ Shikata ga nai... |
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On Sat, 07 Jul 2018 19:52:54 -0400, Paul wrote:
What I can't figure out, is how "dir" and FindNext are able to sort a 40GB $MFT in no time at all, and start outputting file names... in alphabetical order. It's fast enough that "there's got to be a trick". I think the file entries in an NTFS system are maintained in a structure that lends itself to alphabetical searches. It's why pretty much anything you do -- copy, for instance -- is in alphabetical order in NTFS but not in FAT32. -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://BrownMath.com/ http://OakRoadSystems.com/ Shikata ga nai... |
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In message , Stan Brown
writes: On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 14:25:06 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote: The tablet is a touch tablet, which makes makes it a pain to make the inputs, and I have never found how to do the operation mouse operation Click, Shift Click to select multiple files on the touch screen. Ctrl+A selects all files in the current folder. Yes, but Keith might have wanted to select, say, 7 files, or a range of files, rather than all of them. Of course there's also the command prompt. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf It's OK to be tight on The seafront at Brighton But I say, by Jove Watch out if it's Hove. - Sister Monica Joan, quoted by Jennifer Worth (author of the Call the Midwife books, quoted in Radio Times 19-25 January 2013) |
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J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Stan Brown writes: On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 14:25:06 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote: The tablet is a touch tablet, which makes makes it a pain to make the inputs, and I have never found how to do the operation mouse operation Click, Shift Click to select multiple files on the touch screen. Ctrl+A selects all files in the current folder. Yes, but Keith might have wanted to select, say, 7 files, or a range of files, rather than all of them. Of course there's also the command prompt. Some combination of control, alt, and shift, allows extending a selection with "holes" in it. It's control-alt that allows mousing and selecting separate items. They don't have to be touching one another. You can also select "chunks" and add them while holding down those keys. https://s22.postimg.cc/xe221hskx/extended_selection.gif Paul |
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In message , Paul
writes: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message , Stan Brown writes: On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 14:25:06 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote: The tablet is a touch tablet, which makes makes it a pain to make the inputs, and I have never found how to do the operation mouse operation Click, Shift Click to select multiple files on the touch screen. Ctrl+A selects all files in the current folder. Yes, but Keith might have wanted to select, say, 7 files, or a range of files, rather than all of them. Of course there's also the command prompt. Some combination of control, alt, and shift, allows extending a selection with "holes" in it. It's control-alt that allows mousing and selecting separate items. They don't have to be touching one another. I know those, and I think Keith does too: I think he was just saying he was finding them near-impossible on a touch-screen device (no real keyboard or mouse). You can also select "chunks" and add them while holding down those keys. https://s22.postimg.cc/xe221hskx/extended_selection.gif Paul Not sure how I'd select a chunk and add it to an existing selection - the action of starting to select the chunk would I think deselect anything already selected. But no matter! I think Keith's comment above was about the difficulty of using a touch screen as the _only_ input. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Never raise your hand to your children. It leaves your mid-section unprotected |
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J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul writes: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message , Stan Brown writes: On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 14:25:06 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote: The tablet is a touch tablet, which makes makes it a pain to make the inputs, and I have never found how to do the operation mouse operation Click, Shift Click to select multiple files on the touch screen. Ctrl+A selects all files in the current folder. Yes, but Keith might have wanted to select, say, 7 files, or a range of files, rather than all of them. Of course there's also the command prompt. Some combination of control, alt, and shift, allows extending a selection with "holes" in it. It's control-alt that allows mousing and selecting separate items. They don't have to be touching one another. I know those, and I think Keith does too: I think he was just saying he was finding them near-impossible on a touch-screen device (no real keyboard or mouse). You can also select "chunks" and add them while holding down those keys. https://s22.postimg.cc/xe221hskx/extended_selection.gif Paul Not sure how I'd select a chunk and add it to an existing selection - the action of starting to select the chunk would I think deselect anything already selected. But no matter! I think Keith's comment above was about the difficulty of using a touch screen as the _only_ input. You might need some sort of sticky keys solution, where pressing some keys sequentially, builds up a hotkey-combo for you. Having had the misfortune, of using a tiny touch device just a couple days ago, I can sympathize with the problems of operating them. What rubbish!!! I'm thinking "Bluetooth keyboard for the win". If you need to do extensive data entry, and not watch music videos on it, then get a keyboard. Paul |
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On 7/8/2018 6:41 AM, Paul wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message , Paul writes: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message , Stan Brown writes: On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 14:25:06 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote: The tablet is a touch tablet, which makes makes it a pain to make the inputs, and I have never found how to do the operation mouse operation Click, Shift Click to select multiple files on the touch screen. Ctrl+A selects all files in the current folder. Â*Yes, but Keith might have wanted to select, say, 7 files, or a range of files, rather than all of them. Of course there's also the command prompt. Some combination of control, alt, and shift, allows extending a selection with "holes" in it. It's control-alt that allows mousing and selecting separate items. They don't have to be touching one another. I know those, and I think Keith does too: I think he was just saying he was finding them near-impossible on a touch-screen device (no real keyboard or mouse). You can also select "chunks" and add them while holding down those keys. https://s22.postimg.cc/xe221hskx/extended_selection.gif Â* Paul Not sure how I'd select a chunk and add it to an existing selection - the action of starting to select the chunk would I think deselect anything already selected. But no matter! I think Keith's comment above was about the difficulty of using a touch screen as the _only_ input. You might need some sort of sticky keys solution, where pressing some keys sequentially, builds up a hotkey-combo for you. Having had the misfortune, of using a tiny touch device just a couple days ago, I can sympathize with the problems of operating them. What rubbish!!! I'm thinking "Bluetooth keyboard for the win". If you need to do extensive data entry, and not watch music videos on it, then get a keyboard. Â*Â* Paul If you need to do extensive data entry work, get a laptop. I find it amazing that people praise the smartphone and touch tablet, and then run down to Walmart and by keyboards and other peripherals to make it a laptop. While the keyboard idea is great, with my small tablet there is one port that accepts the power cord, the keyboard, etc. When you have to do things like remove thousands of files, it needs to be plugged in, so it is difficult to have a keyboard or mouse attached to the tablet, and have sufficient energy that it will not die during the task you are trying to do. -- 2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre |
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On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 11:21:22 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
Not sure how I'd select a chunk and add it to an existing selection - the action of starting to select the chunk would I think deselect anything already selected. But no matter! I think Keith's comment above was about the difficulty of using a touch screen as the _only_ input. What's wrong with turning off the windows update service and deleting the whole softwaredistribution directory and contents? It worked for me when I had a problem. -- Regards - Rodney Pont The from address exists but is mostly dumped, please send any emails to the address below e-mail rpont (at) gmail (dot) com |
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In alt.comp.os.windows-10 Keith Nuttle wrote:
.... If you need to do extensive data entry work, get a laptop. I find it amazing that people praise the smartphone and touch tablet, and then run down to Walmart and by keyboards and other peripherals to make it a laptop. While the keyboard idea is great, with my small tablet there is one port that accepts the power cord, the keyboard, etc. When you have to do things like remove thousands of files, it needs to be plugged in, so it is difficult to have a keyboard or mouse attached to the tablet, and have sufficient energy that it will not die during the task you are trying to do. For me, I dislike smartphones and tablets. I still prefer computers with clicky keyboards, big monitors, etc. Yes, I'm old. Get off my lawn. :P -- Quote of the Week: "I got worms! That's what we're going to call it. We're going to specialize in selling worm farms. You know like ant farms. What's the matter, a little tense about the flight?" --Lloyd Christmas (Dumb and Dumber movie) Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / http://antfarm.ma.cx / /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit- | |o o| | ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and URL/link. \ _ / ( ) |
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