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  #106  
Old July 10th 18, 11:13 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
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In message , pyotr
filipivich writes:
Ken Blake on Tue, 10 Jul 2018 08:07:31 -0700
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 15:53:56 +0100, "NY" wrote:

[]
context which sense they are meaning. I'm sure we have plenty of words which
have two totally different meanings - can't think of one off the top of my
head.



There are many. Here's one that just popped into my head: "wound."


Hope your head wound is better now (-:

Polish. Is it a person, a sausage, or a furniture topping?

The middle one in US but not UK: in UK it'd be a Polish sausage;
similarly a Danish pastry, and probably a few other similar too.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Scheisse," said Pooh, trying out his German.
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  #107  
Old July 10th 18, 11:34 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Java Jive
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Posts: 391
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On 10/07/2018 02:55, pyotr filipivich wrote:

I remember a conversation with a friends. Variations on "I don't
understand, but in three different languages.


A group of us at college got so bored of the endless use of Monty Python
catch phrases that we started doing them in French, just to make them
more interesting, but the project foundered on "Un baissement de la tete
est aussi bon q'un clignement de l'oeuil" - it somehow lacks the
snappiness of "A nod's as good as a wink", and that's before even
getting as far as "to a blind bat!"
  #108  
Old July 10th 18, 11:36 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Java Jive
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On 10/07/2018 12:41, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Kohl is also charcoal - I think it is even used in English in that sense
in the context of (especially stage) make-up. So I would imagine
Kohlschreiber is more likely to mean pencil or crayon than cabbagewriter
(-:


Aw, now you've gone an ruined a perfectly good joke!
  #109  
Old July 10th 18, 11:38 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Java Jive
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On 10/07/2018 23:36, Java Jive wrote:
On 10/07/2018 12:41, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Kohl is also charcoal - I think it is even used in English in that
sense in the context of (especially stage) make-up. So I would imagine
Kohlschreiber is more likely to mean pencil or crayon than
cabbagewriter (-:


Aw, now you've gone an ruined a perfectly good joke!


Though I suppose we could fall back on the Bishop of Wencel.
  #110  
Old July 11th 18, 03:04 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
pyotr filipivich
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"NY" on Tue, 10 Jul 2018 22:43:29 +0100 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .
I'm sure we have plenty of words which
have two totally different meanings - can't think of one off the top of my
head.


Cleave - to separate something into two parts. To join together.


Cleave has got to be one of the more bizarre words with a double meaning,
because the two meanings are diametrically opposite.

I tend to think of cleave as meaning to split apart, as in a cleaver, the
huge square-headed chopping knife that butchers use. I'd forgotten about
cleave meaning to join together.


English has the "joy" that it has two words sounding alike, and
even spelled alike, with different roots. "Leasing" is my current
favorite. Yes, it means "to convey property for a set time and cost"
from the Anglo-French. But it also meant lying, falsehood, from the
Old English "leasung". Example
"O ye sons of men, how long will ye turn my glory into shame?
how long will ye love vanity, and seek after leasing?" (Psalm 4.2
KJV)

The ultimate word that can be misinterpreted is "inflammable". We are so
used to the prefix "in" meaning "not" (insubstantial, inhumane etc) that
some people think that inflammable is the opposite of flammable - ie, if
something is inflammable, it is not capable of catching fire. Not true
:-( Both words mean the same. Apparently "inflammable" is banned in
safety-related information/signs for this reason - the unambiguous term is
"non-flammable".

Thinking of emergency signs that can be misunderstood, German has the
problem that "not" means "emergency". So "notausgang" means "emergency exit"
but an English person might interpret as "this is not an emergency exit -
look somewhere else for one". I noticed a similar sign "nødudgang" on
certain windows of Norwegian coaches when I was on holiday there, and it's
virtually the same in Swedish and Danish.


I've heard of people mistaking "keine Trinkwasser" as "little
[kleine] drinking water" instead of "don't drink the water." Oops.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
  #111  
Old July 11th 18, 03:04 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
pyotr filipivich
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"NY" on Tue, 10 Jul 2018 22:27:13 +0100 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .
Oh yes! It had never occurred to me that kohl (cabbage) and kohl (the
English, borrowed from German, word for eye shadow) were the same word. I
suppose that when Germans use the word, they have to make it clear from
context which sense they are meaning. I'm sure we have plenty of words
which
have two totally different meanings - can't think of one off the top of
my
head.


There are many. Here's one that just popped into my head: "wound."


Polish. Is it a person, a sausage, or a furniture topping?


I can understand the furniture polish versus adjective relating to Poland,
but in your example I think the person and the sausage are both examples of
the same thing - either a person or a sausage from Poland.


Right.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
  #112  
Old July 11th 18, 03:04 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
pyotr filipivich
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Java Jive on Tue, 10 Jul 2018 23:38:41 +0100
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
On 10/07/2018 23:36, Java Jive wrote:
On 10/07/2018 12:41, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Kohl is also charcoal - I think it is even used in English in that
sense in the context of (especially stage) make-up. So I would imagine
Kohlschreiber is more likely to mean pencil or crayon than
cabbagewriter (-:


Aw, now you've gone an ruined a perfectly good joke!


Though I suppose we could fall back on the Bishop of Wencel.


There was a young curate of Salisbury
Whose manners were halisbury-scalisbury.
He walked about Hampshire
Without any pampshire
Till the vicar compelled him to walisbury.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
  #113  
Old July 11th 18, 09:06 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Java Jive
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Posts: 391
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On 11/07/2018 03:04, pyotr filipivich wrote:

Java Jive on Tue, 10 Jul 2018 23:34:36 +0100

A group of us at college got so bored of the endless use of Monty Python
catch phrases that we started doing them in French, just to make them
more interesting, but the project foundered on "Un baissement de la tete
est aussi bon q'un clignement de l'oeuil" - it somehow lacks the
snappiness of "A nod's as good as a wink", and that's before even
getting as far as "to a blind bat!"


That's when you want to go with the equivalent.

However, be forewarned, at best that can lead to hilarity.


Yes! I think my favourite example is from machine translation, "Water
sheep" for "Hydraulic ram".
  #114  
Old July 11th 18, 04:05 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_5_]
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On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 09:06:59 +0100, Java Jive
wrote:

On 11/07/2018 03:04, pyotr filipivich wrote:

Java Jive on Tue, 10 Jul 2018 23:34:36 +0100

A group of us at college got so bored of the endless use of Monty Python
catch phrases that we started doing them in French, just to make them
more interesting, but the project foundered on "Un baissement de la tete
est aussi bon q'un clignement de l'oeuil" - it somehow lacks the
snappiness of "A nod's as good as a wink", and that's before even
getting as far as "to a blind bat!"


That's when you want to go with the equivalent.

However, be forewarned, at best that can lead to hilarity.


Yes! I think my favourite example is from machine translation, "Water
sheep" for "Hydraulic ram".




My favorite example is about Harriet's parents, who when Harriet was
away at college, got a telegram that started out as "Harriet suspended
for minor offenses" but when they got it had become "Harriet hanged
for juvenile crimes."
  #115  
Old July 11th 18, 04:06 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_5_]
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Posts: 2,221
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 23:13:50 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , pyotr
filipivich writes:
Ken Blake on Tue, 10 Jul 2018 08:07:31 -0700
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 15:53:56 +0100, "NY" wrote:

[]
context which sense they are meaning. I'm sure we have plenty of words which
have two totally different meanings - can't think of one off the top of my
head.


There are many. Here's one that just popped into my head: "wound."


Hope your head wound is better now (-:

Polish. Is it a person, a sausage, or a furniture topping?

The middle one in US but not UK: in UK it'd be a Polish sausage;



Same in the US.
  #116  
Old July 12th 18, 02:10 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mandy Liefbowitz
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On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 13:29:27 +0100, Java Jive
wrote:

On 08/07/2018 20:56, pyotr filipivich wrote:

"Mayayana" on Sun, 8 Jul 2018 12:10:23 -0400
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:

| "pyotr filipivich" wrote
|
| Eta Pravda!


Actually, though I had to stop and think, I did know that this was
Russian, and that it meant "That's true!" - I studied Russian for a
year at school before I decided I was better at maths and science!


Hmm, my first, idiotic, translation of that was Asterix-Russian for
"I chewed up and swallowed a popular Russian newspaper."

I need more tea and less heat.


Sheesh, I had to go look that up. Why doesn't
Windows come with translation functionality? Now
*that* could be a justification for language
support files.


Ja, das stimmt.


Obviously Dutch for "Yes, more stimulants!" The student's reply to
"Do you want some coffee?"


Could recognise as German (or possibly Dutch), and guessed correctly
that it meant the same thing, but, although I also did German for a
year, I never attended half the lectures, so my memory of it is even hazier.

(yeah, I know, showing off. Traveled a lot, picked up fragments
which have stayed with me. Variations on "How much is a room for the
night?", Two beers, please." and "I'm trying to get to ____". Oh and
"I need [part name] for a Volkswagen / Daimler-Benz.".)


Ein bier, bitte.
I would not vouch for the spelling but the sounds are vaguely right.
Apart from "Ein pizza, bitte" and "Ich nich sprake Deutch", what else
is needed?


I do know that kohl is a cabbage, and schreiber is a writer, so this
means that Philip Kohlschreiber translates into English as Philip
CabbageWriter, which during Wimbledon is possibly more useful
information than the above :-)


It is possible that "Kohl" is not translated but is the German for
"Kohl", a cosmetic. "Schreiber" could be loosely used for someone
using eye-liner pencils and other tools. That could mean that the
KohlWriter family were make-up artists in Ancient Antiquity.

No, I don't believe that one, either, though I'd be very happy were
it true. It would tickle my sense of amused neatness.
Mand.
  #117  
Old July 12th 18, 02:55 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
John[_92_]
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 15:53:56 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Ken Blake" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 12:41:24 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Java Jive
writes:
[]
I do know that kohl is a cabbage, and schreiber is a writer, so this
means that Philip Kohlschreiber translates into English as Philip
CabbageWriter, which during Wimbledon is possibly more useful
information than the above :-)

Kohl is also charcoal -



Yes, it's cognate with the English "coal."


Oh yes! It had never occurred to me that kohl (cabbage) and kohl (the
English, borrowed from German, word for eye shadow) were the same word. I
suppose that when Germans use the word, they have to make it clear from
context which sense they are meaning. I'm sure we have plenty of words which
have two totally different meanings - can't think of one off the top of my
head.


Rose, unionise, read (which is its own past tense), mine, set, get,
let, love, interest (though the added cash one is related to the other
one) and several hundred thousand others.
English steals from damned near every other tongue that has existed
since Breton Times and the same *sounds* get used for different
*meanings* depending on the route they take to come into the language
- depending on the word's root.

And then there are the millions of homonyms, like "rhos" and "rose",
"there" and "their", "ewer" and "your" and so many other wonderful
tools for making puns.

"Four candles".


"What's Greek urn?"
"About ten bob a week."


"My wife's visiting the Carribean."
"Oh? Jamaica?"
"No, she went of her own accord."
Mand.




Addendum: anyone who can source all of those witticisms is both very
old and extremely English. Or has massively powerful SearchEngine-Fu.
  #118  
Old July 12th 18, 02:56 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
pyotr filipivich
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Mandy Liefbowitz on Thu, 12 Jul 2018
02:10:00 +0100 typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 13:29:27 +0100, Java Jive
wrote:

On 08/07/2018 20:56, pyotr filipivich wrote:

"Mayayana" on Sun, 8 Jul 2018 12:10:23 -0400
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:

| "pyotr filipivich" wrote
|
| Eta Pravda!


Actually, though I had to stop and think, I did know that this was
Russian, and that it meant "That's true!" - I studied Russian for a
year at school before I decided I was better at maths and science!


Hmm, my first, idiotic, translation of that was Asterix-Russian for
"I chewed up and swallowed a popular Russian newspaper."


There were two papers in the Soviet Union: Pravda - the party
paper; and Izvestia - for general news. Pravda means "Truth",
Izvestia means "News".
And there was a saying that "There is no Pravda in Izvestia, and
there is no Izvestia in Pravda" or in English "There is no truth in
News, and there is no news in Truth."

{sf/x: rimshot!}
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
  #119  
Old July 12th 18, 02:59 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mandy Liefbowitz
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Posts: 132
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 23:13:50 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , pyotr
filipivich writes:
Ken Blake on Tue, 10 Jul 2018 08:07:31 -0700
typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 15:53:56 +0100, "NY" wrote:

[]
context which sense they are meaning. I'm sure we have plenty of words which
have two totally different meanings - can't think of one off the top of my
head.


There are many. Here's one that just popped into my head: "wound."


Hope your head wound is better now (-:

Polish. Is it a person, a sausage, or a furniture topping?

The middle one in US but not UK: in UK it'd be a Polish sausage;
similarly a Danish pastry, and probably a few other similar too.


In English, at least in non-grammatically perfect conversational
English, it is acceptable to use "Polish" to refer to a beer or a
sausage, as one does with "Chinese" or "Indian" for meals.
So a Polish can polish off a few Polishes with his Polish.

It's not relined, polished English, but it works.
Mand.

  #120  
Old July 12th 18, 03:23 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mandy Liefbowitz
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Posts: 132
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On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 22:43:29 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .
I'm sure we have plenty of words which
have two totally different meanings - can't think of one off the top of my
head.


Cleave - to separate something into two parts. To join together.


Cleave has got to be one of the more bizarre words with a double meaning,
because the two meanings are diametrically opposite.


"Fast" and "let" are another pair.

There are others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-antonym



I tend to think of cleave as meaning to split apart, as in a cleaver, the
huge square-headed chopping knife that butchers use. I'd forgotten about
cleave meaning to join together.


"Cleaving only unto her ..."
It's about the only place the second meaning is used in the 20th/21st
Centuries.

No, it doesn't mean using the rubbery thingy as a cleaver, and it
*does* mean "sticking to her like glued on stuff".

Truly.



The ultimate word that can be misinterpreted is "inflammable". We are so
used to the prefix "in" meaning "not" (insubstantial, inhumane etc) that
some people think that inflammable is the opposite of flammable - ie, if
something is inflammable, it is not capable of catching fire. Not true
:-( Both words mean the same. Apparently "inflammable" is banned in
safety-related information/signs for this reason - the unambiguous term is
"non-flammable".


Though semi-trained in Chemistry, I've always thought that English
should just standardise that one for the rest of time. Just accept
"flammable" as the dangerous one and "*IN*flammable" as being immune
to fire.
It would have saved a lot of tiny children from ages of confusion and
just might have saved lives.
Meanwhile, banning "inflammable" is a decent enough compromise.


Thinking of emergency signs that can be misunderstood, German has the
problem that "not" means "emergency". So "notausgang" means "emergency exit"
but an English person might interpret as "this is not an emergency exit -
look somewhere else for one". I noticed a similar sign "nødudgang" on
certain windows of Norwegian coaches when I was on holiday there, and it's
virtually the same in Swedish and Danish.


And, in UKland, we have been trained *NEVER* to panic but to walk
slowly, steadily, safely and quietly down the stairs but the universal
icon for "emergency exit is this way" is a skinny dude *running* down
them like his coat is on fire.
It's not a language thing, strictly, but it is slightly incongruous.

Like the exit signs with an arrow pointing upwards.

Mand.

 




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