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#1
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After SP2 software will not work
Is there a setting in SP2 for Tablet XP that I can turn off to make certain
softwares run (new SP2 security feature)? I tried the RUN AS OS option but no go - where is the disable function for this? Thx |
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#2
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After SP2 software will not work
Which program(s) are you having issues with, Zane. If you were running a
program installed with a previous release candidate in place, you probably need to uninstall and then reinstall that program. Between builds and reverting to SP1, the Registry did change. -- Chris H. Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/ Associate Expert Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone "Zane" wrote in message ... Is there a setting in SP2 for Tablet XP that I can turn off to make certain softwares run (new SP2 security feature)? I tried the RUN AS OS option but no go - where is the disable function for this? Thx |
#3
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After SP2 software will not work
Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings.
"Zane" wrote in message ... Is there a setting in SP2 for Tablet XP that I can turn off to make certain softwares run (new SP2 security feature)? I tried the RUN AS OS option but no go - where is the disable function for this? Thx |
#4
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After SP2 software will not work
This is a fresh install of my new slipstreamed SP2 Tablet XP Edition - I
just want the capability to ALLOW the application to RUN - there has to be a place in the registry to allow even codes considered insecure - I would think... "Chris H." wrote in message ... Which program(s) are you having issues with, Zane. If you were running a program installed with a previous release candidate in place, you probably need to uninstall and then reinstall that program. Between builds and reverting to SP1, the Registry did change. -- Chris H. Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/ Associate Expert Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone "Zane" wrote in message ... Is there a setting in SP2 for Tablet XP that I can turn off to make certain softwares run (new SP2 security feature)? I tried the RUN AS OS option but no go - where is the disable function for this? Thx |
#5
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After SP2 software will not work
What is the application? You should have no issue with a normal app which
runs on Windows XP Pro. -- Chris H. Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/ Associate Expert Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone "Izzy" wrote in message ... This is a fresh install of my new slipstreamed SP2 Tablet XP Edition - I just want the capability to ALLOW the application to RUN - there has to be a place in the registry to allow even codes considered insecure - I would think... "Chris H." wrote in message ... Which program(s) are you having issues with, Zane. If you were running a program installed with a previous release candidate in place, you probably need to uninstall and then reinstall that program. Between builds and reverting to SP1, the Registry did change. -- Chris H. Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/ Associate Expert Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone "Zane" wrote in message ... Is there a setting in SP2 for Tablet XP that I can turn off to make certain softwares run (new SP2 security feature)? I tried the RUN AS OS option but no go - where is the disable function for this? Thx |
#6
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After SP2 software will not work
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#7
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After SP2 software will not work
"Mike Williams [MVP]" wrote in
: Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings. Well that doesn't sound very inviting! |
#8
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After SP2 software will not work
The problem in some cases is (1) a previous version of the beta SP2 software
has been installed, and a program installed during that existence, or (2) a software company hasn't updated their software to work with SP2 yet (example: Norton/Symantec, which is coming out today with an update to fix issues). Otherwise, it is very rare a program will fail. -- Chris H. Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/ Associate Expert Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone "KMO" wrote in message ... "Mike Williams [MVP]" wrote in : Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings. Well that doesn't sound very inviting! |
#9
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After SP2 software will not work; Norton dragging their feet--a lot!
Unfortunately, Chris, Norton didn't come out with anything yet for home and
small business users on their site and have thus far refused to specify the degree of backwards compatibility that the promiesed and not yet delivered patches for *Norton* products would entail. Although there are go arounds to make SP2 work with any version of Norton product, and some a little bit Byzantine--the routine where you read one Norton KB and click on an icon in Live Update to reveal the next KB to read, followed by a hyperlink in the error message to read the 3rd KB--they all end with uninstalling Norton appropriately I belive and should add to install a product from another company. The webpage that didn't deliver from Norton that has been up all week is this one: http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...src=ivr_na_con They plan whenever this happens (it didn't happen on August 10 as the web page has been announcing all week, to deliver a patch in two parts, the second after a reboot. The importance of SP2 working for enterprises and home was in Microsoft's press release: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...P2LaunchPR.asp "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst for the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because it addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone currently using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity." The disingenuous comment by Symantec Senior Vice-President Stephen Cullen is he "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst for the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because it addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone currently using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity." Actually in *several papers* available at Technetand MSDN, Microsoft urges people to uninstall the antivirus before installing SP2. There is a different story though, from Symantec who advises people to wait for their patches before installing SP2 on the webpage linked above. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pro.../winxpsp2.mspx http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...src=ivr_na_con "Symantec will release a product update to provide native support for the Windows Security Center status utility found in SP2. This update will be available worldwide over the coming weeks and will enable Symantec products to communicate their status to the Windows Security Center utility." Symantec asks you to wait, and in the case of their time table for enterprise editions for a vague range up to 8 weeks: FAQ Running Symantec Client Security http://tinyurl.com/6mfsy http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...= bar_sch_nam http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...99082515392606 "Symantec encourages its customers to install the product update prior to installing SP2 in order to avoid incorrect reporting from Windows Security Center." The "security center" for almost everyone who reads and contributes on these two groups is pretty moot, since they don't need that very basic thing to tell them where Technet security links are, or whether their firewall and AV are "on." But many Norton products require work-arounds to make a system scan work (can be obtained as well from any web site and sometimes will work from the command line with SP2 and for some people will not), to make "Live Update" for what it's actually worth work, and to boot up with auto protect on. Actually script blocking and email blocking are duplicative ancillary functions and hype in a Norton/Symantec AV product--not because those things aren't important--but because any engineer who works at Symantec will tell you that Auto-Protect does everything the other two do, and the other two could actually be turned off and you'd still get email scanning and script blocking. Norton Antivirus 2005 actually has a box telling people *explicitly to turn the Windows Firewall in SP2* off as does their Tech Support currently (I spoke with several of them yesterday)--the reason being because NAV 2005 has a little code from their "worm protection" or firewall which competes with the Microsoft Windows firewall. How much firewall is available in NAV 2005 is hard to determine (their new "worm blocking feature.") Obviously it isn't the whole NIS 2005. NAV 2005 for many people who have used it works fine with SP2 until the third boot, and then it has the well known freeze in refresh problem that is addressed sometimes by this Symantec KB which applies to Win XP RTM although it doesn't say so. A lot of Symantec/Norton KBs are labeled forone year's version but the same steps apply to versions of Windows and Norton after 9X. This is corrected by reregistering "jscript.dll" and downloading and reinstalling Windows Script Host 5.6 and other components. The more people they tick off by dragging their feet on compatibility to force sales of 2005 boxes, the better it may be for the new company, "the new security vendor on the block," Microsoft Antivirus. http://news.com.com/Security+vendors...3-5302920.html Best, Chad Harris __________________________________________________ ___________________ "Chris H." wrote in message ... The problem in some cases is (1) a previous version of the beta SP2 software has been installed, and a program installed during that existence, or (2) a software company hasn't updated their software to work with SP2 yet (example: Norton/Symantec, which is coming out today with an update to fix issues). Otherwise, it is very rare a program will fail. -- Chris H. Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/ Associate Expert Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone "KMO" wrote in message ... "Mike Williams [MVP]" wrote in : Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings. Well that doesn't sound very inviting! |
#10
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After SP2 software will not work; Norton dragging their feet--a lot!
From other reports I've seen, using Live Update at least solves the problem
of SP2 not showing Norton's AV as running. -- Terri Stratton Editor / Owner http://thetabletpc.net Microsoft Windows MVP / Tablet PC "Chad Harris" wrote in message ... Unfortunately, Chris, Norton didn't come out with anything yet for home and small business users on their site and have thus far refused to specify the degree of backwards compatibility that the promiesed and not yet delivered patches for *Norton* products would entail. Although there are go arounds to make SP2 work with any version of Norton product, and some a little bit Byzantine--the routine where you read one Norton KB and click on an icon in Live Update to reveal the next KB to read, followed by a hyperlink in the error message to read the 3rd KB--they all end with uninstalling Norton appropriately I belive and should add to install a product from another company. The webpage that didn't deliver from Norton that has been up all week is this one: http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...src=ivr_na_con They plan whenever this happens (it didn't happen on August 10 as the web page has been announcing all week, to deliver a patch in two parts, the second after a reboot. The importance of SP2 working for enterprises and home was in Microsoft's press release: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...P2LaunchPR.asp "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst for the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because it addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone currently using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity." The disingenuous comment by Symantec Senior Vice-President Stephen Cullen is he "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst for the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because it addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone currently using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity." Actually in *several papers* available at Technetand MSDN, Microsoft urges people to uninstall the antivirus before installing SP2. There is a different story though, from Symantec who advises people to wait for their patches before installing SP2 on the webpage linked above. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pro.../winxpsp2.mspx http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...src=ivr_na_con "Symantec will release a product update to provide native support for the Windows Security Center status utility found in SP2. This update will be available worldwide over the coming weeks and will enable Symantec products to communicate their status to the Windows Security Center utility." Symantec asks you to wait, and in the case of their time table for enterprise editions for a vague range up to 8 weeks: FAQ Running Symantec Client Security http://tinyurl.com/6mfsy http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...= bar_sch_nam http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...99082515392606 "Symantec encourages its customers to install the product update prior to installing SP2 in order to avoid incorrect reporting from Windows Security Center." The "security center" for almost everyone who reads and contributes on these two groups is pretty moot, since they don't need that very basic thing to tell them where Technet security links are, or whether their firewall and AV are "on." But many Norton products require work-arounds to make a system scan work (can be obtained as well from any web site and sometimes will work from the command line with SP2 and for some people will not), to make "Live Update" for what it's actually worth work, and to boot up with auto protect on. Actually script blocking and email blocking are duplicative ancillary functions and hype in a Norton/Symantec AV product--not because those things aren't important--but because any engineer who works at Symantec will tell you that Auto-Protect does everything the other two do, and the other two could actually be turned off and you'd still get email scanning and script blocking. Norton Antivirus 2005 actually has a box telling people *explicitly to turn the Windows Firewall in SP2* off as does their Tech Support currently (I spoke with several of them yesterday)--the reason being because NAV 2005 has a little code from their "worm protection" or firewall which competes with the Microsoft Windows firewall. How much firewall is available in NAV 2005 is hard to determine (their new "worm blocking feature.") Obviously it isn't the whole NIS 2005. NAV 2005 for many people who have used it works fine with SP2 until the third boot, and then it has the well known freeze in refresh problem that is addressed sometimes by this Symantec KB which applies to Win XP RTM although it doesn't say so. A lot of Symantec/Norton KBs are labeled forone year's version but the same steps apply to versions of Windows and Norton after 9X. This is corrected by reregistering "jscript.dll" and downloading and reinstalling Windows Script Host 5.6 and other components. The more people they tick off by dragging their feet on compatibility to force sales of 2005 boxes, the better it may be for the new company, "the new security vendor on the block," Microsoft Antivirus. http://news.com.com/Security+vendors...3-5302920.html Best, Chad Harris __________________________________________________ ___________________ "Chris H." wrote in message ... The problem in some cases is (1) a previous version of the beta SP2 software has been installed, and a program installed during that existence, or (2) a software company hasn't updated their software to work with SP2 yet (example: Norton/Symantec, which is coming out today with an update to fix issues). Otherwise, it is very rare a program will fail. -- Chris H. Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/ Associate Expert Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone "KMO" wrote in message ... "Mike Williams [MVP]" wrote in : Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings. Well that doesn't sound very inviting! |
#11
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After SP2 software will not work; Norton dragging their feet--a lot!
Between your post last night, Chad, and early morning (PDT), I'm seeing
reports of Live Update now downloading the proper fix so the Norton Internet Security 2004 is now compatible with SP2, and Norton Antivirus is now properly reporting to the XP Security Center its status. -- Chris H. Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/ Associate Expert Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone "Chad Harris" wrote in message ... Unfortunately, Chris, Norton didn't come out with anything yet for home and small business users on their site and have thus far refused to specify the degree of backwards compatibility that the promiesed and not yet delivered patches for *Norton* products would entail. Although there are go arounds to make SP2 work with any version of Norton product, and some a little bit Byzantine--the routine where you read one Norton KB and click on an icon in Live Update to reveal the next KB to read, followed by a hyperlink in the error message to read the 3rd KB--they all end with uninstalling Norton appropriately I belive and should add to install a product from another company. The webpage that didn't deliver from Norton that has been up all week is this one: http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...src=ivr_na_con They plan whenever this happens (it didn't happen on August 10 as the web page has been announcing all week, to deliver a patch in two parts, the second after a reboot. The importance of SP2 working for enterprises and home was in Microsoft's press release: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...P2LaunchPR.asp "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst for the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because it addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone currently using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity." The disingenuous comment by Symantec Senior Vice-President Stephen Cullen is he "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst for the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because it addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone currently using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity." Actually in *several papers* available at Technetand MSDN, Microsoft urges people to uninstall the antivirus before installing SP2. There is a different story though, from Symantec who advises people to wait for their patches before installing SP2 on the webpage linked above. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pro.../winxpsp2.mspx http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...src=ivr_na_con "Symantec will release a product update to provide native support for the Windows Security Center status utility found in SP2. This update will be available worldwide over the coming weeks and will enable Symantec products to communicate their status to the Windows Security Center utility." Symantec asks you to wait, and in the case of their time table for enterprise editions for a vague range up to 8 weeks: FAQ Running Symantec Client Security http://tinyurl.com/6mfsy http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...= bar_sch_nam http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...99082515392606 "Symantec encourages its customers to install the product update prior to installing SP2 in order to avoid incorrect reporting from Windows Security Center." The "security center" for almost everyone who reads and contributes on these two groups is pretty moot, since they don't need that very basic thing to tell them where Technet security links are, or whether their firewall and AV are "on." But many Norton products require work-arounds to make a system scan work (can be obtained as well from any web site and sometimes will work from the command line with SP2 and for some people will not), to make "Live Update" for what it's actually worth work, and to boot up with auto protect on. Actually script blocking and email blocking are duplicative ancillary functions and hype in a Norton/Symantec AV product--not because those things aren't important--but because any engineer who works at Symantec will tell you that Auto-Protect does everything the other two do, and the other two could actually be turned off and you'd still get email scanning and script blocking. Norton Antivirus 2005 actually has a box telling people *explicitly to turn the Windows Firewall in SP2* off as does their Tech Support currently (I spoke with several of them yesterday)--the reason being because NAV 2005 has a little code from their "worm protection" or firewall which competes with the Microsoft Windows firewall. How much firewall is available in NAV 2005 is hard to determine (their new "worm blocking feature.") Obviously it isn't the whole NIS 2005. NAV 2005 for many people who have used it works fine with SP2 until the third boot, and then it has the well known freeze in refresh problem that is addressed sometimes by this Symantec KB which applies to Win XP RTM although it doesn't say so. A lot of Symantec/Norton KBs are labeled forone year's version but the same steps apply to versions of Windows and Norton after 9X. This is corrected by reregistering "jscript.dll" and downloading and reinstalling Windows Script Host 5.6 and other components. The more people they tick off by dragging their feet on compatibility to force sales of 2005 boxes, the better it may be for the new company, "the new security vendor on the block," Microsoft Antivirus. http://news.com.com/Security+vendors...3-5302920.html Best, Chad Harris __________________________________________________ ___________________ "Chris H." wrote in message ... The problem in some cases is (1) a previous version of the beta SP2 software has been installed, and a program installed during that existence, or (2) a software company hasn't updated their software to work with SP2 yet (example: Norton/Symantec, which is coming out today with an update to fix issues). Otherwise, it is very rare a program will fail. -- Chris H. Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/ Associate Expert Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone "KMO" wrote in message ... "Mike Williams [MVP]" wrote in : Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings. Well that doesn't sound very inviting! |
#12
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After SP2 software will not work; Norton dragging their feet--a lot!
Now, not "not." 8-)
-- Chris H. Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/ Associate Expert Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone "terri" wrote in message ... From other reports I've seen, using Live Update at least solves the problem of SP2 not showing Norton's AV as running. -- Terri Stratton Editor / Owner http://thetabletpc.net Microsoft Windows MVP / Tablet PC "Chad Harris" wrote in message ... Unfortunately, Chris, Norton didn't come out with anything yet for home and small business users on their site and have thus far refused to specify the degree of backwards compatibility that the promiesed and not yet delivered patches for *Norton* products would entail. Although there are go arounds to make SP2 work with any version of Norton product, and some a little bit Byzantine--the routine where you read one Norton KB and click on an icon in Live Update to reveal the next KB to read, followed by a hyperlink in the error message to read the 3rd KB--they all end with uninstalling Norton appropriately I belive and should add to install a product from another company. The webpage that didn't deliver from Norton that has been up all week is this one: http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...src=ivr_na_con They plan whenever this happens (it didn't happen on August 10 as the web page has been announcing all week, to deliver a patch in two parts, the second after a reboot. The importance of SP2 working for enterprises and home was in Microsoft's press release: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...P2LaunchPR.asp "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst for the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because it addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone currently using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity." The disingenuous comment by Symantec Senior Vice-President Stephen Cullen is he "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst for the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because it addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone currently using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity." Actually in *several papers* available at Technetand MSDN, Microsoft urges people to uninstall the antivirus before installing SP2. There is a different story though, from Symantec who advises people to wait for their patches before installing SP2 on the webpage linked above. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pro.../winxpsp2.mspx http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...src=ivr_na_con "Symantec will release a product update to provide native support for the Windows Security Center status utility found in SP2. This update will be available worldwide over the coming weeks and will enable Symantec products to communicate their status to the Windows Security Center utility." Symantec asks you to wait, and in the case of their time table for enterprise editions for a vague range up to 8 weeks: FAQ Running Symantec Client Security http://tinyurl.com/6mfsy http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...= bar_sch_nam http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...99082515392606 "Symantec encourages its customers to install the product update prior to installing SP2 in order to avoid incorrect reporting from Windows Security Center." The "security center" for almost everyone who reads and contributes on these two groups is pretty moot, since they don't need that very basic thing to tell them where Technet security links are, or whether their firewall and AV are "on." But many Norton products require work-arounds to make a system scan work (can be obtained as well from any web site and sometimes will work from the command line with SP2 and for some people will not), to make "Live Update" for what it's actually worth work, and to boot up with auto protect on. Actually script blocking and email blocking are duplicative ancillary functions and hype in a Norton/Symantec AV product--not because those things aren't important--but because any engineer who works at Symantec will tell you that Auto-Protect does everything the other two do, and the other two could actually be turned off and you'd still get email scanning and script blocking. Norton Antivirus 2005 actually has a box telling people *explicitly to turn the Windows Firewall in SP2* off as does their Tech Support currently (I spoke with several of them yesterday)--the reason being because NAV 2005 has a little code from their "worm protection" or firewall which competes with the Microsoft Windows firewall. How much firewall is available in NAV 2005 is hard to determine (their new "worm blocking feature.") Obviously it isn't the whole NIS 2005. NAV 2005 for many people who have used it works fine with SP2 until the third boot, and then it has the well known freeze in refresh problem that is addressed sometimes by this Symantec KB which applies to Win XP RTM although it doesn't say so. A lot of Symantec/Norton KBs are labeled forone year's version but the same steps apply to versions of Windows and Norton after 9X. This is corrected by reregistering "jscript.dll" and downloading and reinstalling Windows Script Host 5.6 and other components. The more people they tick off by dragging their feet on compatibility to force sales of 2005 boxes, the better it may be for the new company, "the new security vendor on the block," Microsoft Antivirus. http://news.com.com/Security+vendors...3-5302920.html Best, Chad Harris __________________________________________________ ___________________ "Chris H." wrote in message ... The problem in some cases is (1) a previous version of the beta SP2 software has been installed, and a program installed during that existence, or (2) a software company hasn't updated their software to work with SP2 yet (example: Norton/Symantec, which is coming out today with an update to fix issues). Otherwise, it is very rare a program will fail. -- Chris H. Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/ Associate Expert Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone "KMO" wrote in message ... "Mike Williams [MVP]" wrote in : Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings. Well that doesn't sound very inviting! |
#13
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After SP2 and the LU Patches Norton Products Still Have a Panopoly of Problems
Chris--
I appreciate the Live Update patch came out with their FAQ. One problem is that *SP2 breaks Live Update* whether you uninstall Norton and install SP2 (as virtually every Microsoft document on SP2 tells you to do) or leave Norton/Symantec in. The bottom Line is after a lot of game playing and clicking successive links on Live Update, tripping through multiple Norton KBs one leading to the next, you have a *LU 1812 error*, whose final move is to uninstall NSW or NAV manually and meticulously, and after you have exhuasted it's remedies, it won't fix with SP2 RTM period. The only way they are delivering the compatibiilty patches for SP2 is through Live Update. SP2 whether Norton is installed before or after breaks Live Udpate and you can't get the patch. http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT... uild=Symantec The part left out on the KB is to install any other antivirus product--many will work with SP2. They are not making any other means avialable to patch Norton other than Live Update. If it's broken, and their KBs to fix it often don't, you're stuck with scan not working, booting up and having to turn on Auto Protect with a right click (minor) and often uninstall problems with Norton products. Microsoft tells you to install SP2 first (uninstall NAV) and Norton/Symantec tell you to wait until they are updated (in some cases 8 weeks from now for Enterprise Products according to their enterprise FAQ I linked before) before installing SP2. Microsoft tells you to turn their Windows Firewall on; Norton 2005 products on the last box before you click finish will tell you in a single explicit box to turn it off. NAV 2005 has a piece of NPF or NIS billed as "worm protection." How much of a piece and what it actually does compared with the Windows firewall that has been criticized with respect to outbound traffic still after SP2 RTM is hard to define. Many people are finding that the Windows firewall leaves much to be desired right now, as you know, but I'm sure it will be a different story come Longhorn in 2007. http://www.symantec.com/techsupp/sp2/faq.html The answers from Symantec on this FAQ just issued just aren't true in some cases. There is the paradox that for many, Live Update doesn't work with SP2 and Norton has elected not to deliver their update patches any other way. They aren't making them available on their site now. That was a goofy choice to say the least. The patch to fix what's broken can't be obtained because you are required to use what's broken to get it--that's not only ironic and paradoxical--you ain't gonna be able to fix what's broken. Microsoft wants you to put in SP2 before Norton, and if you put in Norton first and patch it, SP2 can still break Norton a number of ways. Norton 2005 seems to work pretty well with SP2 until you boot 3 times, and then you have refresh freezing on all categories on the Norton Integrator or gui interface, i.e. you can't tell what's on. You can see that email scanning is working. The important thing of course, is that Auto Protect is enabled, because in fact Auto Protect includes adequate email scan and script blocking to the point you could turn the other two off and be just fine according to every Symantec engineer I talked to--so you have to be able to determine that Auto Protect is up and running. I reproduced this and so did others about 25 times. Sometimes but not all that can be fixed by reregistering jscript.dll, and downloading and reinstalling Scripten or the Microsoft Windows Script package including the Windows Script Host 5.6 since IE has to function correctly to read the Norton interface. http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en This KB applies to any version of NSW or NIS through 2005 with Windows versions past 9X. Often Norton doesn't update KBs in version name for Windows version, but the Norton/Symantec KB will do the job. http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...= bar_sch_nam The FAQ says: "Installing Service Pack 2 will have no affect on Norton Personal Firewall or Norton Internet Security." Some of the FAQ's are vague to the point of covering anything that will happen,--I like this one because it avoids saying SP2 can break things that are Norton/Symantec and it does. "How will installing Service Pack 2 affect the Symantec Products I have already installed?" A. "This varies on the Symantec [Norton as well] products you own." Right. Many break. On many boxes, installing SP2 any build will outright break NIS/NPF any version. It will put up a box that says "You're not the Norton supervisor" and when you put up the Norton Integrator (the box that shows what it does with NAV added you can see it but you can't do anything with it). You'll not be able to uninstall NIS or NPF from Add/Remove, and you'll have to use a Norton KB that involves 30-45minutes of using a Norton removal tool, thendeleting several GUID keys and other registry keys, multiple folders, every Norton file you can track down in ectopic places. "With Service Pack 2 installed, do I even need my Symantec antivirus and firewall products? Absolutely." Norton explicitly tells you to turn the Windows Firewall "*off*" in their 2005 products about to release. I wouldn't run two software firewalls or more at once, and I don't have data comparing their abilities like stateful inspection head on with say, ZA, and that info isn't easy to come by now. What they didn't say in the FAQ is that when you load Norton or Symantec anything, it's going to tell you to turn your Windows Firewall in SP2 off--last box before "Finished Install." "Installing Service Pack 2 will have no affect on Norton Personal Firewall or Norton Internet Security" Just not the case. SP2 can make it difficult to install, and particularly to uninstall Norton products. I don't know the numbers in 10,000 boxes for this. I've found this to be totally *untrue* and reproducable that the firewall can and will break. Norton also tells you on installation of any 2005 product to *turn off the Windows firewall*. It's the last box before you click "Finish" on the install of the Norton/Symantec 2005 AV, PF, or NIS. Norton anti-spam is hype and whatever it does can be spelled a dozen ways without it. Norton Go Back reconfigures the Windows Master Boot Record, and I'd just as soon have someone playing with my elevator lift on the way up the Empire State Building--it often has the same effect and unhooking Go Back from a botched Windows boot strap mechanism is simply impossible--their tech support will tell you they have no clue how and so will MSFT personnel. In a high percentage of cases, Go Back will destroy partitions in the Windows Operating System and you won't be seeing that particular OS again ever. It's refractory to Recovery Console moves or commands and a repair/upgrade or parallel install will get nowhere. SP2 can destroy scans in Norton System works, the ability to make it run after boot, and Live Update the same as in Norton Antivirus. On some people's boxes the security center will monitor it, but how many people need the Security Center (none here) need the Security Center to tell them where Technet is, how to get to Help and Support, or whether their AV or Firewall are all. Very few individuals who install a Norton product don't adjust it at the Norton product or who are going to be working with the Windows Firewall as it evolves and gets better toward Longhorn are going to be relying on the security center to check on the firewall. My point is that there are 3 things that happen with multiple versions of NAV that don't work with SP2--sometimes with the patch update. There are fixes for them, and sometimes they don't work. System scans, booting up with Auto Protect Off (it usually can be turned on but sometimes can't--and Auto Protect is key because it does script blocking/scanning and email scanning--even if you had them both turned off (they are duplication in Norton/Symantec) auto protect will cover that functionality. Live Update will often not work with SP2 and for those people, they can't update to the patches anyway, because Norton has chosen not to make the patches available any alternative way which is goofy to say the least. *Contradiction of Instructions by Microsoft and Symantec/Norton on SP2* There is also the direct contradiction between Microsoft's instructions and Norton's. Every place MSFT has an SP2 article at Technet, MSDN, the XP Expert Zone or any place on MSFT's site, you are told you should uninstall AV to install SP2. Symantec and Norton explicitly tell you to wait to install SP2 until you have updated NAV--and in the case of Symantec patches for enterprise security, AV, and firewall products there is a vague timetable projecting 8 weeks out from now for release toward the end of September. When you install a Symantec or Norton 2005 product, it tells you explicitly to *turn off the Windows firewall--something I know the Networking team and SP2 team did not strive to have done. NAV 2005 has a piece of their NIS 2005 firewall, so-called "Worm Protection" although how much a piece is impossible to quantify unless you are a Symantec engineer who has the code. I do know that Microsoft is definitely developing Microsoft Antivirus products, but that the publicity campaign for them is non-existent. I would bet on Microsoft to produce a superior product to Symantec/Norton in a number of ways, including the ridiculous necessity to read 10 Norton KBs to do a cascade of work arounds to make a product work. Live Update is a great example. Scans that fail are another. Clicking a plus to go to a drop down to get a link to get the 5th KB you've used for one Norton problem is like a childeren's game. Those come into play with SP2. I personally hope Microsoft puts Norton and Symantec out of business and gets their AV product up and running rapidly. I guarantee Symantec is looking over their big floundering shoulders. Best, Chad Harris _________________________________ "Chris H." wrote in message ... Between your post last night, Chad, and early morning (PDT), I'm seeing reports of Live Update now downloading the proper fix so the Norton Internet Security 2004 is now compatible with SP2, and Norton Antivirus is now properly reporting to the XP Security Center its status. -- Chris H. Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/ Associate Expert Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone "Chad Harris" wrote in message ... Unfortunately, Chris, Norton didn't come out with anything yet for home and small business users on their site and have thus far refused to specify the degree of backwards compatibility that the promiesed and not yet delivered patches for *Norton* products would entail. Although there are go arounds to make SP2 work with any version of Norton product, and some a little bit Byzantine--the routine where you read one Norton KB and click on an icon in Live Update to reveal the next KB to read, followed by a hyperlink in the error message to read the 3rd KB--they all end with uninstalling Norton appropriately I belive and should add to install a product from another company. The webpage that didn't deliver from Norton that has been up all week is this one: http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...src=ivr_na_con They plan whenever this happens (it didn't happen on August 10 as the web page has been announcing all week, to deliver a patch in two parts, the second after a reboot. The importance of SP2 working for enterprises and home was in Microsoft's press release: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...P2LaunchPR.asp "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst for the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because it addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone currently using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity." The disingenuous comment by Symantec Senior Vice-President Stephen Cullen is he "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst for the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because it addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone currently using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity." Actually in *several papers* available at Technetand MSDN, Microsoft urges people to uninstall the antivirus before installing SP2. There is a different story though, from Symantec who advises people to wait for their patches before installing SP2 on the webpage linked above. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pro.../winxpsp2.mspx http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...src=ivr_na_con "Symantec will release a product update to provide native support for the Windows Security Center status utility found in SP2. This update will be available worldwide over the coming weeks and will enable Symantec products to communicate their status to the Windows Security Center utility." Symantec asks you to wait, and in the case of their time table for enterprise editions for a vague range up to 8 weeks: FAQ Running Symantec Client Security http://tinyurl.com/6mfsy http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...= bar_sch_nam http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...99082515392606 "Symantec encourages its customers to install the product update prior to installing SP2 in order to avoid incorrect reporting from Windows Security Center." The "security center" for almost everyone who reads and contributes on these two groups is pretty moot, since they don't need that very basic thing to tell them where Technet security links are, or whether their firewall and AV are "on." But many Norton products require work-arounds to make a system scan work (can be obtained as well from any web site and sometimes will work from the command line with SP2 and for some people will not), to make "Live Update" for what it's actually worth work, and to boot up with auto protect on. Actually script blocking and email blocking are duplicative ancillary functions and hype in a Norton/Symantec AV product--not because those things aren't important--but because any engineer who works at Symantec will tell you that Auto-Protect does everything the other two do, and the other two could actually be turned off and you'd still get email scanning and script blocking. Norton Antivirus 2005 actually has a box telling people *explicitly to turn the Windows Firewall in SP2* off as does their Tech Support currently (I spoke with several of them yesterday)--the reason being because NAV 2005 has a little code from their "worm protection" or firewall which competes with the Microsoft Windows firewall. How much firewall is available in NAV 2005 is hard to determine (their new "worm blocking feature.") Obviously it isn't the whole NIS 2005. NAV 2005 for many people who have used it works fine with SP2 until the third boot, and then it has the well known freeze in refresh problem that is addressed sometimes by this Symantec KB which applies to Win XP RTM although it doesn't say so. A lot of Symantec/Norton KBs are labeled forone year's version but the same steps apply to versions of Windows and Norton after 9X. This is corrected by reregistering "jscript.dll" and downloading and reinstalling Windows Script Host 5.6 and other components. The more people they tick off by dragging their feet on compatibility to force sales of 2005 boxes, the better it may be for the new company, "the new security vendor on the block," Microsoft Antivirus. http://news.com.com/Security+vendors...3-5302920.html Best, Chad Harris __________________________________________________ ___________________ "Chris H." wrote in message ... The problem in some cases is (1) a previous version of the beta SP2 software has been installed, and a program installed during that existence, or (2) a software company hasn't updated their software to work with SP2 yet (example: Norton/Symantec, which is coming out today with an update to fix issues). Otherwise, it is very rare a program will fail. -- Chris H. Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/ Associate Expert Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone "KMO" wrote in message ... "Mike Williams [MVP]" wrote in : Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings. Well that doesn't sound very inviting! |
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After SP2 and the LU Patches Norton Products Still Have a Panopoly of Problems
Now I am confused,
I use Norton Internet Security 2004 - are you telling me not to install SP2 ? David "Chad Harris" wrote in message ... Chris-- I appreciate the Live Update patch came out with their FAQ. One problem is that *SP2 breaks Live Update* whether you uninstall Norton and install SP2 (as virtually every Microsoft document on SP2 tells you to do) or leave Norton/Symantec in. The bottom Line is after a lot of game playing and clicking successive links on Live Update, tripping through multiple Norton KBs one leading to the next, you have a *LU 1812 error*, whose final move is to uninstall NSW or NAV manually and meticulously, and after you have exhuasted it's remedies, it won't fix with SP2 RTM period. The only way they are delivering the compatibiilty patches for SP2 is through Live Update. SP2 whether Norton is installed before or after breaks Live Udpate and you can't get the patch. http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT... uild=Symantec The part left out on the KB is to install any other antivirus product--many will work with SP2. They are not making any other means avialable to patch Norton other than Live Update. If it's broken, and their KBs to fix it often don't, you're stuck with scan not working, booting up and having to turn on Auto Protect with a right click (minor) and often uninstall problems with Norton products. Microsoft tells you to install SP2 first (uninstall NAV) and Norton/Symantec tell you to wait until they are updated (in some cases 8 weeks from now for Enterprise Products according to their enterprise FAQ I linked before) before installing SP2. Microsoft tells you to turn their Windows Firewall on; Norton 2005 products on the last box before you click finish will tell you in a single explicit box to turn it off. NAV 2005 has a piece of NPF or NIS billed as "worm protection." How much of a piece and what it actually does compared with the Windows firewall that has been criticized with respect to outbound traffic still after SP2 RTM is hard to define. Many people are finding that the Windows firewall leaves much to be desired right now, as you know, but I'm sure it will be a different story come Longhorn in 2007. http://www.symantec.com/techsupp/sp2/faq.html The answers from Symantec on this FAQ just issued just aren't true in some cases. There is the paradox that for many, Live Update doesn't work with SP2 and Norton has elected not to deliver their update patches any other way. They aren't making them available on their site now. That was a goofy choice to say the least. The patch to fix what's broken can't be obtained because you are required to use what's broken to get it--that's not only ironic and paradoxical--you ain't gonna be able to fix what's broken. Microsoft wants you to put in SP2 before Norton, and if you put in Norton first and patch it, SP2 can still break Norton a number of ways. Norton 2005 seems to work pretty well with SP2 until you boot 3 times, and then you have refresh freezing on all categories on the Norton Integrator or gui interface, i.e. you can't tell what's on. You can see that email scanning is working. The important thing of course, is that Auto Protect is enabled, because in fact Auto Protect includes adequate email scan and script blocking to the point you could turn the other two off and be just fine according to every Symantec engineer I talked to--so you have to be able to determine that Auto Protect is up and running. I reproduced this and so did others about 25 times. Sometimes but not all that can be fixed by reregistering jscript.dll, and downloading and reinstalling Scripten or the Microsoft Windows Script package including the Windows Script Host 5.6 since IE has to function correctly to read the Norton interface. http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en This KB applies to any version of NSW or NIS through 2005 with Windows versions past 9X. Often Norton doesn't update KBs in version name for Windows version, but the Norton/Symantec KB will do the job. http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...= bar_sch_nam The FAQ says: "Installing Service Pack 2 will have no affect on Norton Personal Firewall or Norton Internet Security." Some of the FAQ's are vague to the point of covering anything that will happen,--I like this one because it avoids saying SP2 can break things that are Norton/Symantec and it does. "How will installing Service Pack 2 affect the Symantec Products I have already installed?" A. "This varies on the Symantec [Norton as well] products you own." Right. Many break. On many boxes, installing SP2 any build will outright break NIS/NPF any version. It will put up a box that says "You're not the Norton supervisor" and when you put up the Norton Integrator (the box that shows what it does with NAV added you can see it but you can't do anything with it). You'll not be able to uninstall NIS or NPF from Add/Remove, and you'll have to use a Norton KB that involves 30-45minutes of using a Norton removal tool, thendeleting several GUID keys and other registry keys, multiple folders, every Norton file you can track down in ectopic places. "With Service Pack 2 installed, do I even need my Symantec antivirus and firewall products? Absolutely." Norton explicitly tells you to turn the Windows Firewall "*off*" in their 2005 products about to release. I wouldn't run two software firewalls or more at once, and I don't have data comparing their abilities like stateful inspection head on with say, ZA, and that info isn't easy to come by now. What they didn't say in the FAQ is that when you load Norton or Symantec anything, it's going to tell you to turn your Windows Firewall in SP2 off--last box before "Finished Install." "Installing Service Pack 2 will have no affect on Norton Personal Firewall or Norton Internet Security" Just not the case. SP2 can make it difficult to install, and particularly to uninstall Norton products. I don't know the numbers in 10,000 boxes for this. I've found this to be totally *untrue* and reproducable that the firewall can and will break. Norton also tells you on installation of any 2005 product to *turn off the Windows firewall*. It's the last box before you click "Finish" on the install of the Norton/Symantec 2005 AV, PF, or NIS. Norton anti-spam is hype and whatever it does can be spelled a dozen ways without it. Norton Go Back reconfigures the Windows Master Boot Record, and I'd just as soon have someone playing with my elevator lift on the way up the Empire State Building--it often has the same effect and unhooking Go Back from a botched Windows boot strap mechanism is simply impossible--their tech support will tell you they have no clue how and so will MSFT personnel. In a high percentage of cases, Go Back will destroy partitions in the Windows Operating System and you won't be seeing that particular OS again ever. It's refractory to Recovery Console moves or commands and a repair/upgrade or parallel install will get nowhere. SP2 can destroy scans in Norton System works, the ability to make it run after boot, and Live Update the same as in Norton Antivirus. On some people's boxes the security center will monitor it, but how many people need the Security Center (none here) need the Security Center to tell them where Technet is, how to get to Help and Support, or whether their AV or Firewall are all. Very few individuals who install a Norton product don't adjust it at the Norton product or who are going to be working with the Windows Firewall as it evolves and gets better toward Longhorn are going to be relying on the security center to check on the firewall. My point is that there are 3 things that happen with multiple versions of NAV that don't work with SP2--sometimes with the patch update. There are fixes for them, and sometimes they don't work. System scans, booting up with Auto Protect Off (it usually can be turned on but sometimes can't--and Auto Protect is key because it does script blocking/scanning and email scanning--even if you had them both turned off (they are duplication in Norton/Symantec) auto protect will cover that functionality. Live Update will often not work with SP2 and for those people, they can't update to the patches anyway, because Norton has chosen not to make the patches available any alternative way which is goofy to say the least. *Contradiction of Instructions by Microsoft and Symantec/Norton on SP2* There is also the direct contradiction between Microsoft's instructions and Norton's. Every place MSFT has an SP2 article at Technet, MSDN, the XP Expert Zone or any place on MSFT's site, you are told you should uninstall AV to install SP2. Symantec and Norton explicitly tell you to wait to install SP2 until you have updated NAV--and in the case of Symantec patches for enterprise security, AV, and firewall products there is a vague timetable projecting 8 weeks out from now for release toward the end of September. When you install a Symantec or Norton 2005 product, it tells you explicitly to *turn off the Windows firewall--something I know the Networking team and SP2 team did not strive to have done. NAV 2005 has a piece of their NIS 2005 firewall, so-called "Worm Protection" although how much a piece is impossible to quantify unless you are a Symantec engineer who has the code. I do know that Microsoft is definitely developing Microsoft Antivirus products, but that the publicity campaign for them is non-existent. I would bet on Microsoft to produce a superior product to Symantec/Norton in a number of ways, including the ridiculous necessity to read 10 Norton KBs to do a cascade of work arounds to make a product work. Live Update is a great example. Scans that fail are another. Clicking a plus to go to a drop down to get a link to get the 5th KB you've used for one Norton problem is like a childeren's game. Those come into play with SP2. I personally hope Microsoft puts Norton and Symantec out of business and gets their AV product up and running rapidly. I guarantee Symantec is looking over their big floundering shoulders. Best, Chad Harris _________________________________ "Chris H." wrote in message ... Between your post last night, Chad, and early morning (PDT), I'm seeing reports of Live Update now downloading the proper fix so the Norton Internet Security 2004 is now compatible with SP2, and Norton Antivirus is now properly reporting to the XP Security Center its status. -- Chris H. Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/ Associate Expert Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone "Chad Harris" wrote in message ... Unfortunately, Chris, Norton didn't come out with anything yet for home and small business users on their site and have thus far refused to specify the degree of backwards compatibility that the promiesed and not yet delivered patches for *Norton* products would entail. Although there are go arounds to make SP2 work with any version of Norton product, and some a little bit Byzantine--the routine where you read one Norton KB and click on an icon in Live Update to reveal the next KB to read, followed by a hyperlink in the error message to read the 3rd KB--they all end with uninstalling Norton appropriately I belive and should add to install a product from another company. The webpage that didn't deliver from Norton that has been up all week is this one: http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...src=ivr_na_con They plan whenever this happens (it didn't happen on August 10 as the web page has been announcing all week, to deliver a patch in two parts, the second after a reboot. The importance of SP2 working for enterprises and home was in Microsoft's press release: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...P2LaunchPR.asp "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst for the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because it addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone currently using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity." The disingenuous comment by Symantec Senior Vice-President Stephen Cullen is he "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst for the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because it addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone currently using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity." Actually in *several papers* available at Technetand MSDN, Microsoft urges people to uninstall the antivirus before installing SP2. There is a different story though, from Symantec who advises people to wait for their patches before installing SP2 on the webpage linked above. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pro.../winxpsp2.mspx http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...src=ivr_na_con "Symantec will release a product update to provide native support for the Windows Security Center status utility found in SP2. This update will be available worldwide over the coming weeks and will enable Symantec products to communicate their status to the Windows Security Center utility." Symantec asks you to wait, and in the case of their time table for enterprise editions for a vague range up to 8 weeks: FAQ Running Symantec Client Security http://tinyurl.com/6mfsy http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...= bar_sch_nam http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...99082515392606 "Symantec encourages its customers to install the product update prior to installing SP2 in order to avoid incorrect reporting from Windows Security Center." The "security center" for almost everyone who reads and contributes on these two groups is pretty moot, since they don't need that very basic thing to tell them where Technet security links are, or whether their firewall and AV are "on." But many Norton products require work-arounds to make a system scan work (can be obtained as well from any web site and sometimes will work from the command line with SP2 and for some people will not), to make "Live Update" for what it's actually worth work, and to boot up with auto protect on. Actually script blocking and email blocking are duplicative ancillary functions and hype in a Norton/Symantec AV product--not because those things aren't important--but because any engineer who works at Symantec will tell you that Auto-Protect does everything the other two do, and the other two could actually be turned off and you'd still get email scanning and script blocking. Norton Antivirus 2005 actually has a box telling people *explicitly to turn the Windows Firewall in SP2* off as does their Tech Support currently (I spoke with several of them yesterday)--the reason being because NAV 2005 has a little code from their "worm protection" or firewall which competes with the Microsoft Windows firewall. How much firewall is available in NAV 2005 is hard to determine (their new "worm blocking feature.") Obviously it isn't the whole NIS 2005. NAV 2005 for many people who have used it works fine with SP2 until the third boot, and then it has the well known freeze in refresh problem that is addressed sometimes by this Symantec KB which applies to Win XP RTM although it doesn't say so. A lot of Symantec/Norton KBs are labeled forone year's version but the same steps apply to versions of Windows and Norton after 9X. This is corrected by reregistering "jscript.dll" and downloading and reinstalling Windows Script Host 5.6 and other components. The more people they tick off by dragging their feet on compatibility to force sales of 2005 boxes, the better it may be for the new company, "the new security vendor on the block," Microsoft Antivirus. http://news.com.com/Security+vendors...3-5302920.html Best, Chad Harris __________________________________________________ ___________________ "Chris H." wrote in message ... The problem in some cases is (1) a previous version of the beta SP2 software has been installed, and a program installed during that existence, or (2) a software company hasn't updated their software to work with SP2 yet (example: Norton/Symantec, which is coming out today with an update to fix issues). Otherwise, it is very rare a program will fail. -- Chris H. Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/ Associate Expert Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone "KMO" wrote in message ... "Mike Williams [MVP]" wrote in : Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings. Well that doesn't sound very inviting! |
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After SP2 and the LU Patches Norton Products Still Have a Panopoly of Problems
Seems to work for a lot of other people after SP2 is installed, Chad. I
suggest you contact Symantec or Norton with your specifics. -- Chris H. Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/ Associate Expert Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone "Chad Harris" wrote in message ... Chris-- I appreciate the Live Update patch came out with their FAQ. One problem is that *SP2 breaks Live Update* whether you uninstall Norton and install SP2 (as virtually every Microsoft document on SP2 tells you to do) or leave Norton/Symantec in. The bottom Line is after a lot of game playing and clicking successive links on Live Update, tripping through multiple Norton KBs one leading to the next, you have a *LU 1812 error*, whose final move is to uninstall NSW or NAV manually and meticulously, and after you have exhuasted it's remedies, it won't fix with SP2 RTM period. The only way they are delivering the compatibiilty patches for SP2 is through Live Update. SP2 whether Norton is installed before or after breaks Live Udpate and you can't get the patch. http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT... uild=Symantec The part left out on the KB is to install any other antivirus product--many will work with SP2. They are not making any other means avialable to patch Norton other than Live Update. If it's broken, and their KBs to fix it often don't, you're stuck with scan not working, booting up and having to turn on Auto Protect with a right click (minor) and often uninstall problems with Norton products. Microsoft tells you to install SP2 first (uninstall NAV) and Norton/Symantec tell you to wait until they are updated (in some cases 8 weeks from now for Enterprise Products according to their enterprise FAQ I linked before) before installing SP2. Microsoft tells you to turn their Windows Firewall on; Norton 2005 products on the last box before you click finish will tell you in a single explicit box to turn it off. NAV 2005 has a piece of NPF or NIS billed as "worm protection." How much of a piece and what it actually does compared with the Windows firewall that has been criticized with respect to outbound traffic still after SP2 RTM is hard to define. Many people are finding that the Windows firewall leaves much to be desired right now, as you know, but I'm sure it will be a different story come Longhorn in 2007. http://www.symantec.com/techsupp/sp2/faq.html The answers from Symantec on this FAQ just issued just aren't true in some cases. There is the paradox that for many, Live Update doesn't work with SP2 and Norton has elected not to deliver their update patches any other way. They aren't making them available on their site now. That was a goofy choice to say the least. The patch to fix what's broken can't be obtained because you are required to use what's broken to get it--that's not only ironic and paradoxical--you ain't gonna be able to fix what's broken. Microsoft wants you to put in SP2 before Norton, and if you put in Norton first and patch it, SP2 can still break Norton a number of ways. Norton 2005 seems to work pretty well with SP2 until you boot 3 times, and then you have refresh freezing on all categories on the Norton Integrator or gui interface, i.e. you can't tell what's on. You can see that email scanning is working. The important thing of course, is that Auto Protect is enabled, because in fact Auto Protect includes adequate email scan and script blocking to the point you could turn the other two off and be just fine according to every Symantec engineer I talked to--so you have to be able to determine that Auto Protect is up and running. I reproduced this and so did others about 25 times. Sometimes but not all that can be fixed by reregistering jscript.dll, and downloading and reinstalling Scripten or the Microsoft Windows Script package including the Windows Script Host 5.6 since IE has to function correctly to read the Norton interface. http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en This KB applies to any version of NSW or NIS through 2005 with Windows versions past 9X. Often Norton doesn't update KBs in version name for Windows version, but the Norton/Symantec KB will do the job. http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...= bar_sch_nam The FAQ says: "Installing Service Pack 2 will have no affect on Norton Personal Firewall or Norton Internet Security." Some of the FAQ's are vague to the point of covering anything that will happen,--I like this one because it avoids saying SP2 can break things that are Norton/Symantec and it does. "How will installing Service Pack 2 affect the Symantec Products I have already installed?" A. "This varies on the Symantec [Norton as well] products you own." Right. Many break. On many boxes, installing SP2 any build will outright break NIS/NPF any version. It will put up a box that says "You're not the Norton supervisor" and when you put up the Norton Integrator (the box that shows what it does with NAV added you can see it but you can't do anything with it). You'll not be able to uninstall NIS or NPF from Add/Remove, and you'll have to use a Norton KB that involves 30-45minutes of using a Norton removal tool, thendeleting several GUID keys and other registry keys, multiple folders, every Norton file you can track down in ectopic places. "With Service Pack 2 installed, do I even need my Symantec antivirus and firewall products? Absolutely." Norton explicitly tells you to turn the Windows Firewall "*off*" in their 2005 products about to release. I wouldn't run two software firewalls or more at once, and I don't have data comparing their abilities like stateful inspection head on with say, ZA, and that info isn't easy to come by now. What they didn't say in the FAQ is that when you load Norton or Symantec anything, it's going to tell you to turn your Windows Firewall in SP2 off--last box before "Finished Install." "Installing Service Pack 2 will have no affect on Norton Personal Firewall or Norton Internet Security" Just not the case. SP2 can make it difficult to install, and particularly to uninstall Norton products. I don't know the numbers in 10,000 boxes for this. I've found this to be totally *untrue* and reproducable that the firewall can and will break. Norton also tells you on installation of any 2005 product to *turn off the Windows firewall*. It's the last box before you click "Finish" on the install of the Norton/Symantec 2005 AV, PF, or NIS. Norton anti-spam is hype and whatever it does can be spelled a dozen ways without it. Norton Go Back reconfigures the Windows Master Boot Record, and I'd just as soon have someone playing with my elevator lift on the way up the Empire State Building--it often has the same effect and unhooking Go Back from a botched Windows boot strap mechanism is simply impossible--their tech support will tell you they have no clue how and so will MSFT personnel. In a high percentage of cases, Go Back will destroy partitions in the Windows Operating System and you won't be seeing that particular OS again ever. It's refractory to Recovery Console moves or commands and a repair/upgrade or parallel install will get nowhere. SP2 can destroy scans in Norton System works, the ability to make it run after boot, and Live Update the same as in Norton Antivirus. On some people's boxes the security center will monitor it, but how many people need the Security Center (none here) need the Security Center to tell them where Technet is, how to get to Help and Support, or whether their AV or Firewall are all. Very few individuals who install a Norton product don't adjust it at the Norton product or who are going to be working with the Windows Firewall as it evolves and gets better toward Longhorn are going to be relying on the security center to check on the firewall. My point is that there are 3 things that happen with multiple versions of NAV that don't work with SP2--sometimes with the patch update. There are fixes for them, and sometimes they don't work. System scans, booting up with Auto Protect Off (it usually can be turned on but sometimes can't--and Auto Protect is key because it does script blocking/scanning and email scanning--even if you had them both turned off (they are duplication in Norton/Symantec) auto protect will cover that functionality. Live Update will often not work with SP2 and for those people, they can't update to the patches anyway, because Norton has chosen not to make the patches available any alternative way which is goofy to say the least. *Contradiction of Instructions by Microsoft and Symantec/Norton on SP2* There is also the direct contradiction between Microsoft's instructions and Norton's. Every place MSFT has an SP2 article at Technet, MSDN, the XP Expert Zone or any place on MSFT's site, you are told you should uninstall AV to install SP2. Symantec and Norton explicitly tell you to wait to install SP2 until you have updated NAV--and in the case of Symantec patches for enterprise security, AV, and firewall products there is a vague timetable projecting 8 weeks out from now for release toward the end of September. When you install a Symantec or Norton 2005 product, it tells you explicitly to *turn off the Windows firewall--something I know the Networking team and SP2 team did not strive to have done. NAV 2005 has a piece of their NIS 2005 firewall, so-called "Worm Protection" although how much a piece is impossible to quantify unless you are a Symantec engineer who has the code. I do know that Microsoft is definitely developing Microsoft Antivirus products, but that the publicity campaign for them is non-existent. I would bet on Microsoft to produce a superior product to Symantec/Norton in a number of ways, including the ridiculous necessity to read 10 Norton KBs to do a cascade of work arounds to make a product work. Live Update is a great example. Scans that fail are another. Clicking a plus to go to a drop down to get a link to get the 5th KB you've used for one Norton problem is like a childeren's game. Those come into play with SP2. I personally hope Microsoft puts Norton and Symantec out of business and gets their AV product up and running rapidly. I guarantee Symantec is looking over their big floundering shoulders. Best, Chad Harris _________________________________ "Chris H." wrote in message ... Between your post last night, Chad, and early morning (PDT), I'm seeing reports of Live Update now downloading the proper fix so the Norton Internet Security 2004 is now compatible with SP2, and Norton Antivirus is now properly reporting to the XP Security Center its status. -- Chris H. Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/ Associate Expert Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone "Chad Harris" wrote in message ... Unfortunately, Chris, Norton didn't come out with anything yet for home and small business users on their site and have thus far refused to specify the degree of backwards compatibility that the promiesed and not yet delivered patches for *Norton* products would entail. Although there are go arounds to make SP2 work with any version of Norton product, and some a little bit Byzantine--the routine where you read one Norton KB and click on an icon in Live Update to reveal the next KB to read, followed by a hyperlink in the error message to read the 3rd KB--they all end with uninstalling Norton appropriately I belive and should add to install a product from another company. The webpage that didn't deliver from Norton that has been up all week is this one: http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...src=ivr_na_con They plan whenever this happens (it didn't happen on August 10 as the web page has been announcing all week, to deliver a patch in two parts, the second after a reboot. The importance of SP2 working for enterprises and home was in Microsoft's press release: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...P2LaunchPR.asp "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst for the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because it addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone currently using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity." The disingenuous comment by Symantec Senior Vice-President Stephen Cullen is he "With the proliferation of viruses and other broad threats on business and consumer desktops, I can think of no higher priority than trying to ensure the security of personal computers," said Rob Enderle, principal analyst for the Enderle Group. "Whether the customer is a large enterprise, a small business or an individual, Windows XP Service Pack 2 is critical because it addresses today's exposures in a comprehensive fashion. For anyone currently using Windows XP, my advice is to apply it at your earliest opportunity." Actually in *several papers* available at Technetand MSDN, Microsoft urges people to uninstall the antivirus before installing SP2. There is a different story though, from Symantec who advises people to wait for their patches before installing SP2 on the webpage linked above. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pro.../winxpsp2.mspx http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...src=ivr_na_con "Symantec will release a product update to provide native support for the Windows Security Center status utility found in SP2. This update will be available worldwide over the coming weeks and will enable Symantec products to communicate their status to the Windows Security Center utility." Symantec asks you to wait, and in the case of their time table for enterprise editions for a vague range up to 8 weeks: FAQ Running Symantec Client Security http://tinyurl.com/6mfsy http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...= bar_sch_nam http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT...99082515392606 "Symantec encourages its customers to install the product update prior to installing SP2 in order to avoid incorrect reporting from Windows Security Center." The "security center" for almost everyone who reads and contributes on these two groups is pretty moot, since they don't need that very basic thing to tell them where Technet security links are, or whether their firewall and AV are "on." But many Norton products require work-arounds to make a system scan work (can be obtained as well from any web site and sometimes will work from the command line with SP2 and for some people will not), to make "Live Update" for what it's actually worth work, and to boot up with auto protect on. Actually script blocking and email blocking are duplicative ancillary functions and hype in a Norton/Symantec AV product--not because those things aren't important--but because any engineer who works at Symantec will tell you that Auto-Protect does everything the other two do, and the other two could actually be turned off and you'd still get email scanning and script blocking. Norton Antivirus 2005 actually has a box telling people *explicitly to turn the Windows Firewall in SP2* off as does their Tech Support currently (I spoke with several of them yesterday)--the reason being because NAV 2005 has a little code from their "worm protection" or firewall which competes with the Microsoft Windows firewall. How much firewall is available in NAV 2005 is hard to determine (their new "worm blocking feature.") Obviously it isn't the whole NIS 2005. NAV 2005 for many people who have used it works fine with SP2 until the third boot, and then it has the well known freeze in refresh problem that is addressed sometimes by this Symantec KB which applies to Win XP RTM although it doesn't say so. A lot of Symantec/Norton KBs are labeled forone year's version but the same steps apply to versions of Windows and Norton after 9X. This is corrected by reregistering "jscript.dll" and downloading and reinstalling Windows Script Host 5.6 and other components. The more people they tick off by dragging their feet on compatibility to force sales of 2005 boxes, the better it may be for the new company, "the new security vendor on the block," Microsoft Antivirus. http://news.com.com/Security+vendors...3-5302920.html Best, Chad Harris __________________________________________________ ___________________ "Chris H." wrote in message ... The problem in some cases is (1) a previous version of the beta SP2 software has been installed, and a program installed during that existence, or (2) a software company hasn't updated their software to work with SP2 yet (example: Norton/Symantec, which is coming out today with an update to fix issues). Otherwise, it is very rare a program will fail. -- Chris H. Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/ Associate Expert Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone "KMO" wrote in message ... "Mike Williams [MVP]" wrote in : Some software is known to fail on SP2 due to new security settings. Well that doesn't sound very inviting! |
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