What needs to be done to make Logitech/Microsoft wireless mice work?

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 16:20:59 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood
wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 11:33:58 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood
wrote:

The crappy Lithium ones that Costco sells.
Enviro brand I think they're called. Blue paper labels.

I got the brand name wrong. It's Eneloop. Panasonic really. I put as set of
the Lithium Metal Hydride batteries on the Panasonic charger that came with
them from Costco so I can test it out later in the day to see if the
voltage works.

I bought some Eneloop rechargeables back in 2009-2010 and they came
branded as Sanyo. It's interesting that Panasonic now uses that name.

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 11:40:51 -0500, Wolf K wrote:

On 2017-01-31 11:07, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 1/31/2017 10:13 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:08:32 -0500, knuttle
wrote:

I to am using a wired mouse, as in my experience the wireless have to
have their batteries replaced about once every three or four weeks.

I replace the batteries in my Logitech M705 wireless mouse every 18-24
months.

I have a Logitech M705 mouse. What kind of batteries do you use.

My wireless (BlueTooth) mouse has a switch. I turn it off when not in
use. Sofar, it's lasted almost 3 years.

The M705 also has a switch, but I only use it when I'm tossing the mouse
into my backpack for travel. For everyday use, there's no need to turn
it off.

On 1/31/2017 8:20 AM, RS Wood wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 11:33:58 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood
wrote:

The crappy Lithium ones that Costco sells.
Enviro brand I think they're called. Blue paper labels.

I got the brand name wrong. It's Eneloop. Panasonic really. I put as set of
the Lithium Metal Hydride batteries on the Panasonic charger that came with
them from Costco so I can test it out later in the day to see if the
voltage works.

Here's the Costco Item #1083517 battery package which I think I paid 30
bucks for 8 AA batteries and 4 AAA batteries, and a charger, so it's
impossible to figure out the price per battery. If we assume the charger is
about one third to one half the price that leaves the 12 batteries at about
$1.50 to $1.25 per battery.
https://www.costco.com/Panasonic-Ene...100308742.html

The Kirkland AAA batteries I currently have in the Logitech mouse is Costco
Item #1083517 which is $20 for 64 batteries, or 31 cents each.
https://www.costco.com/Kirkland-Sign...100308039.html

The Kirkland AA battery I have in the Microsoft mouse is Costco Item
#922275 at $19 for 72 batteries, or 26 cents each.
https://www.costco.com/Kirkland-Sign...100308038.html

I've had good luck with eneloops in 2xAA keyboards.
They just don't have enough voltage for single AA mice.
I just use alkalines in all these devices.
I worry more about leaky batteries due to old age than the cost of the
cells. Can't remember the last time I changed 'em.

I'm guessing that Bluetooth mice would use more juice and might
be better candidates for NiMH cells. All my BT mice are two-cell.
I've never used one long
enough to know or care about battery life.

Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 16:20:59 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood
wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 11:33:58 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood
wrote:

The crappy Lithium ones that Costco sells.
Enviro brand I think they're called. Blue paper labels.
I got the brand name wrong. It's Eneloop. Panasonic really. I put as set of
the Lithium Metal Hydride batteries on the Panasonic charger that came with
them from Costco so I can test it out later in the day to see if the
voltage works.

I bought some Eneloop rechargeables back in 2009-2010 and they came
branded as Sanyo. It's interesting that Panasonic now uses that name.


They're nickel metal hydride. "A lot safer technology" :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eneloop

low self-discharge NiMH
developed by Sanyo (later acquired by Panasonic)

The low self-discharge would make them good for a mouse.

Paul

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 11:47:54 -0600, Char Jackson wrote:

I bought some Eneloop rechargeables back in 2009-2010 and they came
branded as Sanyo. It's interesting that Panasonic now uses that name.

Funny you mention that because I have the older Sanyo green paper ones from
Costco and the Sanyo branded chargers too, so, I have both, but I never
realized Sanyo Eneloops became Panasonic Eneloops (changing from green to
blue in the process).

The reason I say they're crappy should be stated that they're really not
high density. You can just tell from how light they are although I should
look at the amp-hour figures on the side which is the spec I'm discussing.

I find, in use, they go flat sooner than do akalines, which is why I call
them 'crappy'. In effect, they're just not high charge density.

I don't think I'll ever buy them again though, although I have at least
three of the chargers so I've bought them at least three times. The reason
is that the chargers require pairs, and there is really no good reason for
that.

If I needed more, I'd spend the time to find two things:
1. A charger that charges individual cells (they don't cost any more)
2. Batteries with higher charge density (aka amp hours)

If you know of any, let us know.

On 1/31/2017 10:38 AM, RS Wood wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 11:47:54 -0600, Char Jackson wrote:

I bought some Eneloop rechargeables back in 2009-2010 and they came
branded as Sanyo. It's interesting that Panasonic now uses that name.

Funny you mention that because I have the older Sanyo green paper ones from
Costco and the Sanyo branded chargers too, so, I have both, but I never
realized Sanyo Eneloops became Panasonic Eneloops (changing from green to
blue in the process).

The reason I say they're crappy should be stated that they're really not
high density. You can just tell from how light they are although I should
look at the amp-hour figures on the side which is the spec I'm discussing.

I find, in use, they go flat sooner than do akalines, which is why I call
them 'crappy'. In effect, they're just not high charge density.

I don't think I'll ever buy them again though, although I have at least
three of the chargers so I've bought them at least three times. The reason
is that the chargers require pairs, and there is really no good reason for
that.

If I needed more, I'd spend the time to find two things:
1. A charger that charges individual cells (they don't cost any more)
2. Batteries with higher charge density (aka amp hours)

If you know of any, let us know.

The enloops seem to have the best reputation of ANY NiMH LSD cells.
I quit buying other brands.

They have gone thru several generations. Newer ones seem to have
backed down the capacity spec in favor of lower self-discharge.
I found that the versions sold by Costco seem to be not the latest
version. Not sure that matters much tho.

The charger supplied with the packages has also changed over the years.
Went from individual charge to pairs and back to individual.
Most of my devices use 1 or 3 cells, so individual charge is important
to me too.
The charger currently at Costco is the BQ-CC55. Charges individual
cells and has much better indication of state of charge than previous
versions.

For high current loads, eneloops are vastly superior to alkalines
for cost. I've also never had one leak and destroy the device.
That seems to be happening more and more with alkalines. I wouldn't
buy a Duracell unless I intended to use it up soon.

For low current devices, the cost differential is irrelevant.
Many devices, especially older ones, NiMH spends most of it's discharge
capacity at a voltage too low for reliable operation. None of my
"atomic" clocks will run more than a week on NiMH before the voltage
gets too low.

On 1/31/2017 12:43 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
I replace the batteries in my Logitech M705 wireless mouse every 18-24
months.

I have a Logitech M705 mouse. What kind of batteries do you use.
Duracell alkaline.

I'm on my 4th M705, (the switch under the left button wears out), and
all of them eat batteries at the rate of a pair every 18-24 months, so
if you have an M705 that eats batteries in 4 weeks, something is
definitely wrong.

I also use Alkaline batteries, and turn of the mouse when ever I am not
using it. I have tried several wireless mice, with the same results.
Still use batteries at a rate of every 3 to 4 weeks.

I wish I could find one that last as I usually loose the wired mouse
when I accidentally put the wire out of it.

Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-01-31 15:05, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 1/31/2017 12:43 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
I replace the batteries in my Logitech M705 wireless mouse every 18-24
months.

I have a Logitech M705 mouse. What kind of batteries do you use.
Duracell alkaline.

I'm on my 4th M705, (the switch under the left button wears out), and
all of them eat batteries at the rate of a pair every 18-24 months, so
if you have an M705 that eats batteries in 4 weeks, something is
definitely wrong.

I also use Alkaline batteries, and turn of the mouse when ever I am not
using it. I have tried several wireless mice, with the same results.
Still use batteries at a rate of every 3 to 4 weeks.

I wish I could find one that last as I usually loose the wired mouse

I'm using lithium batteries for everything these days. They cost about
4x as much as bargain alkalines and last 8x to 10x longer.

Have a good day,


This article will make it clear what you bought.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_battery

"Lithium-iron", "Li/Fe". Called "voltage-compatible" lithium,
because it can work as a replacement for alkaline batteries
with its 1.5 V nominal voltage. As such, Energizer lithium
cells of AA and AAA size employ this chemistry. 2.5 times higher
lifetime for high current discharge regime than alkaline batteries,
better storage life due to lower self-discharge, 10–20 years
storage time. FeS2 is cheap. Cathode often designed as a paste
of iron sulfide powder mixed with powdered graphite. Variant
is Li-CuFeS2.

That's not the same chemistry as a laptop battery
pack cell.

If the price was good on those, I'd snap them up.
Look at the nice discharge curve.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...mary_batteries

Paul

On 1/31/2017 6:29 PM, Paul wrote:

That's not the same chemistry as a laptop battery
pack cell.

If the price was good on those, I'd snap them up.
Look at the nice discharge curve.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...mary_batteries
I use Lithium AA bateries in my camera. (Olympus SP-590UZ) I do not take
a lot of pictures. If I put alkaline batteries in the camrea I get
about 2 to four weeks before they have to be replaced.

So in this device with my useage it, is cost effective to use the
lithium AA batteries.

"Paul" wrote in message
news
Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 16:20:59 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood
wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 11:33:58 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood
wrote:

The crappy Lithium ones that Costco sells. Enviro brand I think they're
called. Blue paper labels.
I got the brand name wrong. It's Eneloop. Panasonic really. I put as set
of
the Lithium Metal Hydride batteries on the Panasonic charger that came
with
them from Costco so I can test it out later in the day to see if the
voltage works.

I bought some Eneloop rechargeables back in 2009-2010 and they came
branded as Sanyo. It's interesting that Panasonic now uses that name.


They're nickel metal hydride. "A lot safer technology" :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eneloop

low self-discharge NiMH
developed by Sanyo (later acquired by Panasonic)

The low self-discharge would make them good for a mouse.

Paul


Dating back to when digital cameras ran on AA, I was using Eneloops with
great results. My Pentax Kx camera ran on Eneloops with fairly demanding
needs. My Pentax K5II uses specialty batteries but has a AA adapter for the
grip that I keep for emergencies... my bag moves from house to car and sits
there for 8 or 12 hours at a time with only topping off the charge once or
twice a year... and when I had just such an emergency a while back they
performed just fine.

I have a 2meter radio hand unit that I have an adapter for a trunk mount
antenna and lighter fed battery pack in the car that it is nearly always
running on (wtih a cabled mic it is nearly a hard-wire). I rarely use the
radio outside of the car but when I do, the battery pack adapter with
Eneloops in it (that are in the glove through 100F or -10F weather) always
has enough ummmpfff to operate for a fair number of hours.

I run my Logitech M305 on an Eneloop that lasts a few months, always on,
with changing amounts of use. Since I am using them in clocks and such, as
well, I keep a little container for dead and one for charged and when I get
4 dead I put them in my LaCrosse BC-700 charger on 200 charge (the lower the
charge rate the longer the battery lives and so far I think they pretty much
live forever) overnight and I'm good to go. I have more than I need and
bought them at Amazon.

I love my Eneloops and wouldn't use anything else.

Here is an article, somewhat dated now, that talks about test results on
these batteries. I thought I had a link here for an updated version but I
guess not.


http://www.stefanv.com/electronics/l...discharge.html

"Keith Nuttle" wrote in message
news
On 1/31/2017 6:29 PM, Paul wrote:

That's not the same chemistry as a laptop battery
pack cell.

If the price was good on those, I'd snap them up.
Look at the nice discharge curve.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...mary_batteries
I use Lithium AA bateries in my camera. (Olympus SP-590UZ) I do not take a
lot of pictures. If I put alkaline batteries in the camrea I get about 2
to four weeks before they have to be replaced.

So in this device with my useage it, is cost effective to use the lithium
AA batteries.

Yes. See my reply elsewhere in this thread. Have used Eneloops from Amazon
for cameras for years.

En el artículo , knuttle
escribió:

I to am using a wired mouse, as in my experience the wireless have to
have their batteries replaced about once every three or four weeks.

Oh, how *awful*. You poor dear.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 15:05:26 -0500, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

I also use Alkaline batteries, and turn of the mouse when ever I am not
using it. I have tried several wireless mice, with the same results.
Still use batteries at a rate of every 3 to 4 weeks.

I wish I could find one that last as I usually loose the wired mouse
when I accidentally put the wire out of it.

My wife has used several wireless mice on her laptop. I buy the
kind that has an On/Off switch. She uses the laptop almost
daily, and her batteries last up to two years. She sometimes
forgets to turn off the mouse, but the batteries last a very long
time.

One is a Microsoft Wireless Mobile Mouse 3000. Uses an AA
battery.

In message , Wolf K
writes:
On 2017-01-31 15:05, Keith Nuttle wrote:
[]
I wish I could find one that last as I usually loose the wired mouse
[]
It's a while since I saw one, but then I haven't looked for it: a mouse
that went into a charger when not in use. (I think it used some ordinary
AA type of rechargeable - might even have been two.) I _think_ the
charger plugged into USB (actually I think it was combined with the
wireless receiver, so was on the desk anyway).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Cumulatively, however, they do get my goat, on my wick and up my nose, to the
extent I am angry enough to stick a wick up a goat's nose and to hell with the
consequences. - Eddie Mair, RT 2016/2/27-3/4

In message , Keith Nuttle
writes:
On 1/31/2017 6:29 PM, Paul wrote:

That's not the same chemistry as a laptop battery
pack cell.

If the price was good on those, I'd snap them up.
Look at the nice discharge curve.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...mary_batteries
I use Lithium AA bateries in my camera. (Olympus SP-590UZ) I do not
take a lot of pictures. If I put alkaline batteries in the camrea I
get about 2 to four weeks before they have to be replaced.

So in this device with my useage it, is cost effective to use the
lithium AA batteries.

I use ordinary nickel metal hydride, but the sort that have longer
retention times (lower self-discharge). A lot of them claim at least 90%
charge remaining after a year; the "normal" NiMH type seem to me to run
down (i. e. self-discharge, even if not in anything) in sufficiently few
weeks (I too take few pictures) that my "spare set" were often no good
when I needed them. The longer retention types (many of the common makes
make a variety with this property, as well as own-brand [such as, in UK,
7dayshop]) tend to cost about the same, but have somewhat lower capacity
- the current limit seems to be, for AA, about 2.9 Ah (2900 mAh if you
must!) for the "normal" type, and about 2 Ah for the low-discharge type.
(For me, the chance of them actually having any charge left when I want
them far outweighs the lower theoretical capacity.) Since I became aware
of these type, I've not bought any of the other. They (the
low-self-discharge ones) are often sold charged, unlike normal
rechargeables; I've used some I bought (since they were a good price in
one of our discount supermarkets [Lidl]) well over a year after I bought
them, and they were fine (still had plenty of go in them).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Cumulatively, however, they do get my goat, on my wick and up my nose, to the
extent I am angry enough to stick a wick up a goat's nose and to hell with the
consequences. - Eddie Mair, RT 2016/2/27-3/4