UPS Battery Not Present

Good day all.

I got a brand new BR1500G APC UPS for my PC. I don't recall having any
issues in Win10 and my previous BE550 APC UPS, but I notice now that
when I boot Win10 Anniversary, there is a battery icon and it's "empty"
- i.e. once I'm on the desktop and I hover over the battery icon, Win 10
says No Battery Present. The UPS is connected via USB and has no issues
under Windows 7. Under Win 7 it shows-up as HID Battery + Composite
Battery (two devices) whereas under Win 10 I only have the one HID
Battery...

There is of course no firmware update from APC and their "PowerChute"
software is from 2012 and utter garbage. If I disable then re-enable the
battery from Device Manager then all is well. I think Win10 tries to
access the battery status too quickly when it boots (it wants to show
the battery icon on the login screen). Anyone have experience with that?
I can find lots of people with this issue on Google, and I mean LOTS,
but no clear solution.

I tried this:
sc config HidBatt start= auto
sc config hidserv start= auto

Thinking that maybe I need to make HidBatt run earlier, but it did not
resolve the problem.

I can use DevCon to restart the device on each reboot, but I'd like
something a little better than that.

PS:
I also cannot get Win7 to sleep when the battery reaches x%, it goes to
sleep then wakes-up immediately. !@%$ APC garbage, shoulda gone with
CyberPower lol. That BR1500 design is a few years old, I think, not sure
how "new" the firmware is.

Thank you.
Best Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain /
! (o o) Memberavid-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo And all the Borg Left was this copy of Windoze.

B00ze wrote:

I got a brand new BR1500G APC UPS for my PC. I don't recall having any
issues in Win10 and my previous BE550 APC UPS, but I notice now that
when I boot Win10 Anniversary, there is a battery icon and it's "empty"
- i.e. once I'm on the desktop and I hover over the battery icon, Win 10
says No Battery Present. The UPS is connected via USB and has no issues
under Windows 7. Under Win 7 it shows-up as HID Battery + Composite
Battery (two devices) whereas under Win 10 I only have the one HID
Battery...

There is of course no firmware update from APC and their "PowerChute"
software is from 2012 and utter garbage. If I disable then re-enable the
battery from Device Manager then all is well. I think Win10 tries to
access the battery status too quickly when it boots (it wants to show
the battery icon on the login screen). Anyone have experience with that?
I can find lots of people with this issue on Google, and I mean LOTS,
but no clear solution.

I tried this:
sc config HidBatt start= auto
sc config hidserv start= auto

Thinking that maybe I need to make HidBatt run earlier, but it did not
resolve the problem.

I can use DevCon to restart the device on each reboot, but I'd like
something a little better than that.

Have you tried configuring the UPS service for *delayed* start? Use
"start= delayed-start" instead of "start= auto" with the sc.exe (Service
Controller) program, or use the services.msc wizard to select delayed
start for those services.


http://www.thewindowsclub.com/delay-...rvices-windows

B00ze wrote:
Good day all.

I got a brand new BR1500G APC UPS for my PC. I don't recall having any
issues in Win10 and my previous BE550 APC UPS, but I notice now that
when I boot Win10 Anniversary, there is a battery icon and it's "empty"
- i.e. once I'm on the desktop and I hover over the battery icon, Win 10
says No Battery Present. The UPS is connected via USB and has no issues
under Windows 7. Under Win 7 it shows-up as HID Battery + Composite
Battery (two devices) whereas under Win 10 I only have the one HID
Battery...

There is of course no firmware update from APC and their "PowerChute"
software is from 2012 and utter garbage. If I disable then re-enable the
battery from Device Manager then all is well. I think Win10 tries to
access the battery status too quickly when it boots (it wants to show
the battery icon on the login screen). Anyone have experience with that?
I can find lots of people with this issue on Google, and I mean LOTS,
but no clear solution.

I tried this:
sc config HidBatt start= auto
sc config hidserv start= auto

Thinking that maybe I need to make HidBatt run earlier, but it did not
resolve the problem.

I can use DevCon to restart the device on each reboot, but I'd like
something a little better than that.

PS:
I also cannot get Win7 to sleep when the battery reaches x%, it goes to
sleep then wakes-up immediately. !@%$ APC garbage, shoulda gone with
CyberPower lol. That BR1500 design is a few years old, I think, not sure
how "new" the firmware is.

Thank you.
Best Regards,


Isn't there are delayed start option for services ?

http://www.itprotoday.com/management...t-command-line

sc config SVCNAME start= delayed-auto

*******

A second idea, would be to enter a Task Scheduler entry to do it.
Leave the service on Manual or something, and schedule
a start later after boot.

Paul

On 2018-02-23 23:37, B00ze wrote:

Good day all.

I got a brand new BR1500G APC UPS for my PC. I don't recall having any
issues in Win10 and my previous BE550 APC UPS, but I notice now that
when I boot Win10 Anniversary, there is a battery icon and it's "empty"
- i.e. once I'm on the desktop and I hover over the battery icon, Win 10
says No Battery Present. The UPS is connected via USB and has no issues
under Windows 7. Under Win 7 it shows-up as HID Battery + Composite
Battery (two devices) whereas under Win 10 I only have the one HID
Battery...

Paul, Vanguard, Hmmm, I had not thought of DELAYING it, but it might
work. Of course if I do this it won't know about the battery until well
after I'm on the desktop. The battery service (HidBatt) is normally set
to DEMAND; I'm not sure if DELAYED will make it ignore requests to
start. I'll give it a try and report back.

But it is a very common problem -

LMGTFY Windows 10 no battery present - About 903,000 results
LMGTFY Windows 10 ups no battery present - About 1,140,000 results

Best Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain /
! (o o) Memberavid-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo I can't believe it, I've heard of this disease! -Beverly

B00ze wrote:

On 2018-02-23 23:37, B00ze wrote:

Good day all.

I got a brand new BR1500G APC UPS for my PC. I don't recall having any
issues in Win10 and my previous BE550 APC UPS, but I notice now that
when I boot Win10 Anniversary, there is a battery icon and it's "empty"
- i.e. once I'm on the desktop and I hover over the battery icon, Win 10
says No Battery Present. The UPS is connected via USB and has no issues
under Windows 7. Under Win 7 it shows-up as HID Battery + Composite
Battery (two devices) whereas under Win 10 I only have the one HID
Battery...

Paul, Vanguard, Hmmm, I had not thought of DELAYING it, but it might
work. Of course if I do this it won't know about the battery until well
after I'm on the desktop. The battery service (HidBatt) is normally set
to DEMAND; I'm not sure if DELAYED will make it ignore requests to
start. I'll give it a try and report back.

But it is a very common problem -

LMGTFY Windows 10 no battery present - About 903,000 results
LMGTFY Windows 10 ups no battery present - About 1,140,000 results

Best Regards,

Services set to Demand should stay configured that way. Those are
loaded when called upon. Something ELSE calls that on-demand service.
You don't want them needlessly loaded on Windows startup. Delaying a
service does not delay when your desktop loads. Delayed service are
still loaded before your desktop.

On 2018-02-27 06:33, VanguardLH wrote:

B00ze wrote:

On 2018-02-23 23:37, B00ze wrote:

Good day all.

I got a brand new BR1500G APC UPS for my PC. I don't recall having any
issues in Win10 and my previous BE550 APC UPS, but I notice now that
when I boot Win10 Anniversary, there is a battery icon and it's "empty"
- i.e. once I'm on the desktop and I hover over the battery icon, Win 10
says No Battery Present. The UPS is connected via USB and has no issues
under Windows 7. Under Win 7 it shows-up as HID Battery + Composite
Battery (two devices) whereas under Win 10 I only have the one HID
Battery...

Paul, Vanguard, Hmmm, I had not thought of DELAYING it, but it might
work. Of course if I do this it won't know about the battery until well
after I'm on the desktop. The battery service (HidBatt) is normally set
to DEMAND; I'm not sure if DELAYED will make it ignore requests to
start. I'll give it a try and report back.

But it is a very common problem -

LMGTFY Windows 10 no battery present - About 903,000 results
LMGTFY Windows 10 ups no battery present - About 1,140,000 results

Best Regards,

Services set to Demand should stay configured that way. Those are
loaded when called upon. Something ELSE calls that on-demand service.
You don't want them needlessly loaded on Windows startup. Delaying a
service does not delay when your desktop loads. Delayed service are
still loaded before your desktop.

Hi Guys.

Well, Delayed-Auto did not work. Delayed services are supposed to be
delayed 2 minutes, but I suspect HidBatt gets asked to start while the
computer is booting-up regardless. I did not check specifically with SC
if it was running or waiting 2 minutes, but it's not all that relevant
since trying to delay it did not resolve the problem. Guess it's back to
Google and those 1M results. I might visit the APC forums and ask there.
It's also possible that this problem is resolved in newer versions of
Win10 (I have not updated since Anniversary).

PS Vanguard: Yeah well, on my Win7 desktop, I found the 2 minutes
wait-time too long; it's ok for the laptop with a hard disk but REALLY
too long for the fast desktop with a SSD, so I reduced the delay to 1
minutes. The desktop's fast enough to handle a lot of startup load...

Thank you.
Best Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain /
! (o o) Memberavid-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo Darmok and Groucho, at the opera.

B00ze wrote:

Well, Delayed-Auto did not work. Delayed services are supposed to be
delayed 2 minutes, but I suspect HidBatt gets asked to start while
the computer is booting-up regardless.

http://www.thewindowsclub.com/delay-...rvices-windows
(as well as the previously cited article)

say something akin to:

The Service Control Manager starts services that are configured for
delayed automatic start after all of the automatic-start threads have
finished starting.

After all auto services have been issued a start then the delayed-auto
services are issued a start request after the wait time. How long until
all delayed-auto services get started depends on how many auto services
there are and how long each takes to return status that it started (no
yet loaded but has started to load). Then AFTER all the auto services
have been issued a start does the 2-minute delay (AutoStartDelay) begin
to count down before delay-auto services get issued start requests.

I did not check specifically with SC if it was running or waiting 2
minutes, but it's not all that relevant since trying to delay it did
not resolve the problem.

While there are utilities that can remove startup programs from their
common locations and load them after a user-specified delay (e.g.,
WinPatrol - but I don't recommend that program since it periodically
forgets to issue alerts), I don't know of a way to specify the delay for
a service. I suppose you could use the Task Scheduler to run a batch
file to specify how long after Windows startup or login to run the
'sc.exe' service controller to change a service from disabled to auto
and then use 'sc.exe' again to start the service or 'net start' to do
the same.

However, to prevent the service from starting up on Windows startup or
login, you would have to disable the service on Windows shutdown (so it
was disabled on the next Windows startup to make use of the delayed 'sc'
commands). There are login and logout scripts that are assigned to each
Windows account. I'd have to go look them up again to see where they
get saved (probably somewhere under %userprofile% or as registry entries
specifying the script file to run).

You would use a scheduled task that is delayed by a user specified
interval to enable the service and then issue a start request. On
logout, you use the logout script to stop the service and disable it.
If the computer ever crashes (hangs, crashes, power outage), the logout
script won't get ran.

Guess it's back to
Google and those 1M results. I might visit the APC forums and ask there.
It's also possible that this problem is resolved in newer versions of
Win10 (I have not updated since Anniversary).

PS Vanguard: Yeah well, on my Win7 desktop, I found the 2 minutes
wait-time too long; it's ok for the laptop with a hard disk but REALLY
too long for the fast desktop with a SSD, so I reduced the delay to 1
minutes. The desktop's fast enough to handle a lot of startup load...

120 seconds is the default value (AutoStartDelay). As mentioned in the
first cited article, you can change that delay (after first waiting for
all auto services to start).

Doesn't sound like the APC service is starting (as a delay-auto service)
even after having it wait 2 minutes after all the auto services have
started. That's pretty long for a service to not start. Have you
disabled all startup programs (using msconfig.exe or SysInternals
AutoRuns) to see if the APC service then starts okay? Something loaded
on Windows startup is interferring with the APC service. Doesn't look
like delaying the APC service is going to work. Tried disabling any
security software (e.g., anti-virus/malware) and retest after a reboot?

Is the UPS plugged into the computer using a USB2 or USB3 port on the
computer?

After Windows has started, unplug the USB cable from the UPS (if it is
easier to reach than the other end of the USB cable connected to the
computer). How long before the device is detected as disconnected (you
hear the ding-dong sound)? After the UPS disappears as a device, plug
it back in. How long before the UPS gets detected as connected (you
hear the dong-ding sound)? You can also use Nirsoft's USBDeview tool to
check the status of USB devices. USBdeview does not poll at periodic
intervals to detect USB devices. It uses the USB handshaking event to
detect a state change.

I have run into problems when a USB device is defined more than once
under the Enum key in the registry. I've had to delete all enumerations
(while the USB device was unplugged) and then plug in the USB device to
have it resend its presentation data to define a new enumeration. The
old enumerations were corrupted or invalid which had to get deleted so
the device could correctly record its presentation data in the registry.
In the past, I did the manual editing of the ENUM\USB subkeys but, as I
recall, Nirsoft's USBdeview will let you delete (aka uninstall) the
enumerations, too. I remember having to do this Enum registry editing
back when I used the Magicjack USB VOIP dongle. Whenever tech support
says to plug the USB device into a different port and then the device
works is when it's time to wipe all enumerations for that USB device and
create a new one.

By the way, in your opening article you said, "Under Win 7 it shows-up
as HID Battery + Composite Battery (two devices) whereas under Win 10 I
only have the one HID Battery". You did not say where you say that
info. I had assumed it was in Device Manager (devmgmt.msc). Have you
looked there to check for any yellow exclamation marks for the UPS
device and which drivers are being used by them?

On 2018-02-28 00:13, VanguardLH wrote:

By the way, in your opening article you said, "Under Win 7 it shows-up
as HID Battery + Composite Battery (two devices) whereas under Win 10 I
only have the one HID Battery". You did not say where you say that
info. I had assumed it was in Device Manager (devmgmt.msc). Have you
looked there to check for any yellow exclamation marks for the UPS
device and which drivers are being used by them?

Hi Vanguard.

Yeah, no yellow exclamation points, I think it's just a new thing in
Win10, single device for UPS batteries instead of the two we had in Win7.

I did try to unplug it (detected immediately) and plug it back (detected
immediately). This makes it "find" the battery and it no longer says the
battery is not present. I also did a "show hidden devices" and deleted
the extra battery copy (from the UPS that was previously plugged in,
different model) but it did not resolve the problem. HidBatt is a hidden
service, you can control it with SC but if you go into services.msc you
wont see it (it's a "Device" even tho it is in
HKLM\*\CurrentControlSet\Services). Setting it up for delayed-start
doesn't work; I suspect that if someone request that a service starts,
it will do so regardless of its startup type unless it is disabled.
However, your talk of ENUM is good, there is a ENUM key under that
service entry in the registry, I will go see in Win10 what's there,
maybe there are two like you say?!

If the problem cannot be fixed by other means I can always schedule (or
use a Startup script) a DevCon restart @PNP\bla\bla\bla, it is like
clicking Disable on the device in Device Manager (rather than the
service) and then ENABLE. It fixes the issue. It's just that I'd rather
find the root cause and fix it lol. I'll also drop by the APC forum when
I have time, I will report back if I get anything there.

Best Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain /
! (o o) Memberavid-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo "All right, evil-doer, SUCK - fthoop - sushi?" -Darkwing