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#16
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Simplest way to get WinXP-style sliding cascading menu on Win10 (without MS Update bricking the system)?
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 17:58:31 -0800, ultred ragnusen
wrote: I've used as many operating systems as anyone here, including all the early and late variants of UNIX and Linux. Maybe, maybe not. There's no way you can know what operating systems I, or anyone else here, has used. |
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#17
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Simplest way to get WinXP-style sliding cascading menu on Win10 (without MS Update bricking the system)?
Ken Blake wrote:
I've used as many operating systems as anyone here, including all the early and late variants of UNIX and Linux. Maybe, maybe not. There's no way you can know what operating systems I, or anyone else here, has used. Actually, I think we can since /most/ of us are old men who were born many decades before the personal computer debuted. Since that's most likely the case, we /all/ have worked on the /same/ major operating systems. I, for one, started in the waning days of the paper tape days, before punched cards, so I've written assembly language for IBM computers (as you know, they were all IBM in those days) and then later, building my own using the Motorola 68701 based on SAMS guides and then, even later the Forest Mims TTL stuff. Then in university, we ran into, for the first time, the DEC equipment, in addition to the ubiquitous IBM equipment, and then, later still, Masscomp and a variety Sun versions of UNIX flavors. At some point, we muddled with the TRS80 keyboards attached to a TV screen, and from there we wrote in BASIC for the first time, after having looked up enough Error 42 messages in the Fortran code book. From there our paths may start to vary simply because the variety of what was available exploded, but, we all lived the same drill, don't you think? Back to the topic, from our first coding flowchart to today, the choices have always been binary. 0. Anarchy 1. Organization Pick one. |
#18
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Simplest way to get WinXP-style sliding cascading menu on Win10 (without MS Update bricking the system)?
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:22:52 -0800, ultred ragnusen
wrote: Ken Blake wrote: I've used as many operating systems as anyone here, including all the early and late variants of UNIX and Linux. Maybe, maybe not. There's no way you can know what operating systems I, or anyone else here, has used. Actually, I think we can since /most/ of us are old men who were born many decades before the personal computer debuted. I'm 80 and started programming computers in 1962. But although several of us may be old men, undoubtedly several of the participants here are much younger. Since that's most likely the case, we /all/ have worked on the /same/ major operating systems. *Some* of the same major operating systems. Undoubtedly you've worked on some I haven't and I've worked on some you haven't. And the same is true of many others here. I, for one, started in the waning days of the paper tape days, before punched cards, Since punched card usage began with the 1890 US census, and became widespread in the 1930s, if you used paper tape before there were punched cards, in the "paper tape days, before punched cards," you must be well over 100 years old. I doubt that. so I've written assembly language for IBM computers (as you know, they were all IBM in those days) No, they were *not* all IBM. There were Snow White and the seven dwarves: IBM, Univac, Honeywell, Burroughs, General Electric, RCA, NCR, and Control Data. I worked mostly on IBM computers, but also on Univac, RCA, and NCR. And I've worked on a wide variety of IBM computers (about ten or twelve different ones), from very small to very large. And I've written assembly language for several of them. I worked with paper tape only slightly, but on other devices, not computers. |
#19
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Simplest way to get WinXP-style sliding cascading menu on Win10 (without MS Update bricking the system)?
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 17:01:43 -0500, Wolf K
wrote: On 2018-02-23 13:56, Ken Blake wrote: On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 08:22:52 -0800, ultred ragnusen wrote: Ken Blake wrote: I've used as many operating systems as anyone here, including all the early and late variants of UNIX and Linux. Maybe, maybe not. There's no way you can know what operating systems I, or anyone else here, has used. Actually, I think we can since /most/ of us are old men who were born many decades before the personal computer debuted. I'm 80 and started programming computers in 1962. But although several of us may be old men, undoubtedly several of the participants here are much younger. [...] :-) OK let's reminisce. Started with cards, card reader -- paper tape, on a 2nd-hand IBM-360 You're much younger than me. g When I started. in 1962, the 360 hadn't even been announced yet. that my University had bought for $250k, a very small fraction of its original multi-million dollar price. Started with binary codes, then alphanumeric op-codes. OSs I've used on work-related and/or personally-owned machines: Commodore's BASIC environment on PET and C-64. AmigaDOS I worked on none of those, ... DOS, PCDOS, MSDOS, DRDOS. ....but all of those Windows 2.x (really just a menu system on top of DOS, not an OS at all). We have different definitions of what an operating system is. Windows 3.x. OS/2 (from 2.x to warp 4, and including Win 3.x)) OS-X Tiger, upgraded 10.5 (Leopard) Windows 2000, XP, 7, and 8.1. I've used every version of Windows since 2.0. And lots of different mainframe operating systems. Linux: SusE, Red Hat, Knoppix, and a few others I forget; eventually Mint (which I still boot occasionally, just to see what's new). I've worked on no Linux operating systems. Programming: I've written quick-n-dirty useful programs in DOS batch code, I have too, but I wouldn't call them programs. I once wrote a batch file that was about 4000 lines long. BASIC, and Same here. COMAL. But not that. Played with (in descending order of seriousness): Pascal, FORTRAN, COBOL, Aida, FORTH, REXX, C/C++, LISP. I've probably written more COBOL programs than any other kind, but none of those others. I took a course in IBM assembler in the early 90s, can't recall the version, it was probably G. I can still sort of read assembler code, esp. if the programmer has commented well. You mean 360/370 assembler (other machines had their own assembler language)? I never took a course, but I've written a bunch of stuff in that language. The only programming course I ever took taught me 1401 machine language/SPS/Autocoder. My son, who is an active programmer, has probably worked in more programming languages than I have. I'm 78. You're a youngster. g |
#20
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Simplest way to get WinXP-style sliding cascading menu on Win10 (without MS Update bricking the system)?
Ken Blake wrote:
You're much younger than me. g When I started. in 1962, the 360 hadn't even been announced yet. Funny story, I think it was the IBM 360, but I don't recall exactly, but I had a part-time job as a "computer operator" at night, which was a glorified name for the person behind the bins who fed the printer with reams of folded punched paper and then pulled it off the printer to rip and stuff the bins alphabetically by user name. I received about 10 minutes of "training" and was told to return at midnight, wearing warm clothes (long sleeves, a sweater, and long pants) even though it was summer. The very first day on the job, two people, presumably recognizing that I was new, knocked on the door and said they needed to do something at the console, so I let them. A short while later a supervisor or someone else of authority came in and asked why I let "those hackers" into the operator room. I didn't know what a hacker was, but it was the very first time in my life that I had heard the word, where I didn't have to ask what it meant because it meant "someone bad". To this day, I don't know what they did to the system, but the supervisor told me to never let them in again, and the whole experience frazzled me (not the least of which it was an all-night job) that I soon quit, probably only a few days later. So ended my glorious career as a "computer operator". |
#21
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Simplest way to get WinXP-style sliding cascading menu on Win10 (without MS Update bricking the system)?
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
There's a reason well written programs provide an option to put them where you want them put. Which is? Clearly, it's good coding practice to give the user the ability to install the program how and where they like. And, you /do/ need to know where the program is installed since an "Open With" requires knowing it down to the very executable. Not with a properly written program, it's in the list. And if it isn't, it's under program files as I just said. You prefer anarchy. That's clear. That's fine. It's your preference. In addition, by never installing into Program Files, you will only see the badly written programs go there, which helps you identify the poorly designed programs. What?! Here's a simple example which you don't even realize is common because you don't take the option to put a program where you want it to go. Try to install iTunes and tell it where to go. Just watch what happens with all the ancillary things that are installed. Just watch. Hint: Anarchy is just around the corner. Lastly, by maintaining the same hierarchy for menus as for saving your installers as for installing your programs, you maintain control over your system in that every has a place, and everything stays in its place. See your doctor about your OCD problem. Do you throw all your clothes into a big heap in the middle of your closet? Do you jumble all your tools in a single box on your shelves? Do you put all your textbooks in a big pile on the living room floor? If not, by your own faulty logic, you're OCD. The only other option is anarchy where you can't find anything without giving up and running a hail-mary search. They live where they should, under program files. Except that they should live where you want them. If you prefer them in Program Files, that's fine. But it's well known good coding practice to give the user the choice. |
#22
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Simplest way to get WinXP-style sliding cascading menu on Win10 (without MS Update bricking the system)?
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 22:36:40 -0800, ultred ragnusen wrote:
But it's well known good coding practice to give the user the choice. Who says so? |
#23
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Simplest way to get WinXP-style sliding cascading menu on Win10(without MS Update bricking the system)?
On 24/02/2018 00:48, ultred ragnusen wrote:
So ended my glorious career as a "computer operator". And now you've taken up a new career to abuse young boys. Authorities are watching you. -- With over 600 million devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. |
#24
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Simplest way to get WinXP-style sliding cascading menu on Win10(without MS Update bricking the system)?
On 25/02/2018 01:21, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 12:48:35 -0000, mechanic wrote: On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 22:36:40 -0800, ultred ragnusen wrote: But it's well known good coding practice to give the user the choice. Who says so? Look at his name, he's not a human, he's some Arab or other. He's a known troll who goes by the name of: Roy Tremblay Lionel Muller Harry Newton George Newton Micky and other names. I have got his name in my database and these names are passed to the authorities for further investigation. He spends most of his time in the dark web sharing photos of young boys and girls. He is constantly looking for ways to hide his IP address and he knows how to use Open VPN; He is now looking for ways to use image editing software without divulging his identity. His questions are always about privacy and how to avoid domains that require authentication because as you may know they register IP addresses and people using VPN are generally denied access. -- With over 600 million devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. |
#25
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Simplest way to get WinXP-style sliding cascading menu on Win10 (without MS Update bricking the system)?
mechanic wrote:
But it's well known good coding practice to give the user the choice. Who says so? Just think about what you just asked, and then think about reality. What percentage of programs do you install on Windows that do NOT ask you where you want them to go? 1%? Maybe 2%? The other 99% or 98% adhere to good coding practices. You're certainly welcome to insist that 98% to 99% of coders are using bad practices but your attempt to do so would fly in the face of logic. |
#26
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Simplest way to get WinXP-style sliding cascading menu on Win10 (without MS Update bricking the system)?
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 23:30:03 -0800, ultred ragnusen wrote:
mechanic wrote: But it's well known good coding practice to give the user the choice. Who says so? Just think about what you just asked, and then think about reality. Well I just asked a simple question which you seem unable to answer. What percentage of programs do you install on Windows that do NOT ask you where you want them to go? 1%? Maybe 2%? The other 99% or 98% adhere to good coding practices. You're certainly welcome to insist that 98% to 99% of coders are using bad practices but your attempt to do so would fly in the face of logic. Well as I see it best practice would be to follow the Windows security model which involves installing programs in 'C:\Program Files' or ...'\Program Files (X86)' according to the 'bittiness' of the program. Allowing installers to ignore this and put them where they want is asking for trouble. |
#27
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Simplest way to get WinXP-style sliding cascading menu on Win10 (without MS Update bricking the system)?
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 23:30:03 -0800, ultred ragnusen
wrote: What percentage of programs do you install on Windows that do NOT ask you where you want them to go? 1%? Maybe 2%? The other 99% or 98% adhere to good coding practices. I have no statistics to quote and I haven't kept track of it myself, but as best I can remember, the percentage is much higher than 1%-2% and much lower than 98%-99%. Just a guess, but I'd say somewhere around 50%. |
#28
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Simplest way to get WinXP-style sliding cascading menu on Win10 (without MS Update bricking the system)?
mechanic wrote:
Just think about what you just asked, and then think about reality. Well I just asked a simple question which you seem unable to answer. You don't like the simple answer, which doesn't mean I'm unable to answer. A more detailed answer is that people often put programs on separate partitions from the operating system, or, in a location of their choosing, for reasons that /they/ know. What you're saying is that all cars should be black, and if they're not black, that someone else has to come up with a good reason that /you/ accept for them not to be black. What I'm saying is that people have good reasons for wanting colors, the default of which could be black, but for me to have to justify the most obvious of thought processes means simply that you bought too many arguments this week. Use your silly arguments elsewhere, since giving people the choice of where to put their software is a basic so basic that any program that fails, has already proven it doesn't adhere to one of the most basic of coding practices, which is that assumption that people have different needs, wants, and desires than does the programmer alone. Well as I see it best practice would be to follow the Windows security model which involves installing programs in 'C:\Program Files' or ...'\Program Files (X86)' according to the 'bittiness' of the program. Allowing installers to ignore this and put them where they want is asking for trouble. Wow. I see now that you're worrying about something that will never likely ever happen, and which has likely never happened to anyone you've ever met in your life. How many instances of "trouble" have you seen from people installing programs where they feel they belong? Worrying about that is like like worrying that putting your socks in drawer two of the chest will "cause problems" when the advertisement for the chest pictures socks in drawer number one. |
#29
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Simplest way to get WinXP-style sliding cascading menu on Win10 (without MS Update bricking the system)?
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
Agreed, absolutely no need to put programs anywhere else. There's absolutely no need for cars to be any color other than black either. |
#30
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Simplest way to get WinXP-style sliding cascading menu on Win10 (without MS Update bricking the system)?
Ken Blake wrote:
I have no statistics to quote and I haven't kept track of it myself, but as best I can remember, the percentage is much higher than 1%-2% and much lower than 98%-99%. Just a guess, but I'd say somewhere around 50%. Absolutely no way it's anything like 1/2 the programs out there don't give you any option to install where you want them installed. They exist, mind you, where iTunes' bloatware is one of them, and a quick look in my old Program-Files(whatever) hierarchy shows a couple of the really badly written programs (e.g., WinPcap) but, I must have over 250 programs installed on my old HDD where there are extremely few of them showing up in the Program Files hierarchies. IMHO, it's more like 1%, if that, are so badly written that they don't give the user any option to put them where the user wants them. So few programs are that badly written that you probably can't name more than one or two programs you feel gives the user no option to install where they want it to install. |
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