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What's the deal with Win 8.1 ?



 
 
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  #31  
Old January 20th 14, 12:43 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
philo [_3_]
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Posts: 984
Default What's the deal with Win 8.1 ?

On 01/19/2014 04:44 PM, homosapien wrote:
In article , says...

I thought it was supposed to bring back the option for the classic type GUI.

Saw my first Win8.1 machine today and it looks the same as Win8


Right click on the start icon on the desktop mode for some goodies.





I am not too thrilled with it...but control-escape does what I want.

I am not sure a new user is going to figure that one out though.
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  #32  
Old January 20th 14, 12:56 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Gene E. Bloch[_5_]
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Posts: 1,720
Default What's the deal with Win 8.1 ?

On 1/19/2014, BillW50 posted:
In ,
Gene E. Bloch typed:
On 1/19/2014, BillW50 posted:
In ,
philo typed:
BTW: It works quite well in a virtual machine and the H/W I have
is
fairly modest.


You like VMs? I much prefer to run a single OS per machine. That
way
you don't have to put up with all of those VM limitations.


Vms weigh less and take up less space.


Well you got me there. ;-)


Yeah, just havin' a bit of fun :-)

Glad you enjoyed it.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
  #33  
Old January 20th 14, 01:06 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Silver Slimer[_4_]
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Posts: 340
Default What's the deal with Win 8.1 ?

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 18:40:13 -0500, philo wrote:

On 01/19/2014 05:33 PM, Silver Slimer wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 10:39:23 -0500, philo wrote:

I thought it was supposed to bring back the option for the classic
type GUI.

Saw my first Win8.1 machine today and it looks the same as Win8


It DID bring it back, however it's not the default setting. If you want
the classic GUI to load every time you start up, just click on Desktop
and get into it. Then right-click on the taskbar and you'll be able to
set it up from within there to boot to the desktop and skip the metro UI
altogether.


Yes, it's now more to my liking . I can deal with it...but all of the
people I know hate it.


Tell them to actually give the OS a try for more than five minutes. Anyone
who has ends up liking it. It's grown on a lot of people in this newsgroup
as well as for me.

--
Silver Slimer
GNU/Linux is Communism
  #34  
Old January 20th 14, 01:08 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
BillW50
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Posts: 5,556
Default What's the deal with Win 8.1 ?

In ,
philo typed:
On 01/19/2014 04:41 PM, BillW50 wrote:
IX

snip

She got another laptop that I spent some time with.
It was a used on and I had to reload the OS.

Two weeks later her cat ****ed on it and ruined it.


Geez those dang male cats! They like to pee on everything. Although I
guess they do help the economy, as people who own them have to
replace their electronics a lot.

Hard drive was OK though.


Lucky thing. ;-)


Right now I have on my bench an HP with an intermittent power jack.

I got it free so I suppose if I screw it up it will be a good learning
experience.


Normally they are not too bad, although getting to the board to unsolder
can be. I bought two used laptops once that I got real cheap and they
worked fine on battery, but dead on AC. I gambled and hoped that all
that was wrong was having a bad DC socket. Although they also had a dock
port and I plugged them into the dock and they get power just fine that
way. So I never got around to replacing the power jacks on them.

--
Bill
Motion Computing LE1700 Tablet ('09 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo L7400 1.5GHz - 2GB RAM
Windows XP Tablet PC Edition 2005 SP2


  #35  
Old January 20th 14, 01:33 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
philo [_3_]
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Posts: 984
Default What's the deal with Win 8.1 ?

On 01/19/2014 06:06 PM, Silver Slimer wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 18:40:13 -0500, philo wrote:

On 01/19/2014 05:33 PM, Silver Slimer wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 10:39:23 -0500, philo wrote:

I thought it was supposed to bring back the option for the classic
type GUI.

Saw my first Win8.1 machine today and it looks the same as Win8

It DID bring it back, however it's not the default setting. If you want
the classic GUI to load every time you start up, just click on Desktop
and get into it. Then right-click on the taskbar and you'll be able to
set it up from within there to boot to the desktop and skip the metro UI
altogether.


Yes, it's now more to my liking . I can deal with it...but all of the
people I know hate it.


Tell them to actually give the OS a try for more than five minutes.
Anyone who has ends up liking it. It's grown on a lot of people in this
newsgroup as well as for me.




I don't know if I could possibly explain to you the types of people I
deal with.


Here is a true story I've posted befo


Years ago I built a Win98 machine for a friend of mine. She was computer
literate and had a computer in her office ever since about 1983. I
assumed I did not have to give her instructions.


A few weeks later she called me literally crying. She was going to night
school and had to copy a document onto a floppy and could not do so.


It turned out that the floppy drive icon was not in the **IDENTICAL**
place as her computer at work...and she was 100% lost.


She is not a stupid person, but she learned how to use a computer by
rote. She is not going to intuitively know how to use Win8.


I know people who have PHD's who can just barely use a computer. It's
not that they are dumb...they have a mental block that just cannot be
conquered.

One of my friends ...( PHD ) could not even figure out how to use his
keyboard even though he was an avid typist. "Where's the question mark?"
he shouted. I told him it was in the same place as it would be on a
typewriter.(Actually it was over two spaces.) He has a mental block he
cannot conquer and he eventually gave up altogether.


Believe me, when MS came up with the Win8 GUI they were not thinking.
They just do not know human psychology.






  #36  
Old January 20th 14, 01:35 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
philo [_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 984
Default What's the deal with Win 8.1 ?

On 01/19/2014 06:08 PM, BillW50 wrote:
In n

Normally they are not too bad, although getting to the board to unsolder
can be. I bought two used laptops once that I got real cheap and they
worked fine on battery, but dead on AC. I gambled and hoped that all
that was wrong was having a bad DC socket. Although they also had a dock
port and I plugged them into the dock and they get power just fine that
way. So I never got around to replacing the power jacks on them.



Well, I have a few less things to worry about.

For the last few days I've been giving away my older machines on Craig's
List and just now killed my ad.

My basement is empty (other than maybe 30 machine or so).


Kind of echoey down there!
  #37  
Old January 20th 14, 02:55 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Silver Slimer[_4_]
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Posts: 340
Default What's the deal with Win 8.1 ?

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 19:33:51 -0500, philo wrote:

I don't know if I could possibly explain to you the types of people I
deal with.

Here is a true story I've posted befo

Years ago I built a Win98 machine for a friend of mine. She was computer
literate and had a computer in her office ever since about 1983. I
assumed I did not have to give her instructions.

A few weeks later she called me literally crying. She was going to night
school and had to copy a document onto a floppy and could not do so.

It turned out that the floppy drive icon was not in the **IDENTICAL**
place as her computer at work...and she was 100% lost.


The truth is that people, in their youth, tend to explore a lot more than
adults do. If a kid can't find something on the computer, he will keep
looking until he finds it and remember how he got there. If an adult can't
find what they're looking for, especially if they're over 30, they won't
bother looking because complaining about the product is so much easier.
Mentally, we become very lazy with time.

She is not a stupid person, but she learned how to use a computer by
rote. She is not going to intuitively know how to use Win8.


She's not stupid but she is definitely very lazy.

I know people who have PHD's who can just barely use a computer. It's
not that they are dumb...they have a mental block that just cannot be
conquered.

One of my friends ...( PHD ) could not even figure out how to use his
keyboard even though he was an avid typist. "Where's the question mark?"
he shouted. I told him it was in the same place as it would be on a
typewriter.(Actually it was over two spaces.) He has a mental block he
cannot conquer and he eventually gave up altogether.


PhDs are smart in their own field but that doesn't translate to them being
smart in general. I knew a girl who had the highest grades in high school
and got scholarships to do a Bachelor's and a Master's in whatever place
she wanted on Earth. Smartest cookie I could ever have imagined but she
returned to Montreal (from studying in Germany) to work a menial job in a
bank and eventually become a housewife. It's extremely disappointed
considering how brilliant she was in her field.

Believe me, when MS came up with the Win8 GUI they were not thinking.
They just do not know human psychology.


Windows 98 wasn't very bad in terms of interface. The My Computer icon was
very accessible and made it easy for even the dumbest individual to find
the icon representing a floppy drive. The Start button was also a very
intuitive idea. I wouldn't blame Microsoft for making an unintuitive
product when the reality is that it's literally impossible to cater to
what everyone considers intuitive.

--
Silver Slimer
GNU/Linux is Communism
  #38  
Old January 20th 14, 03:14 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Silver Slimer[_4_]
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Posts: 340
Default What's the deal with Win 8.1 ?

On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 03:49:40 -0500, Zaghadka wrote:

I find the broad mouse movements required to navigate it to be somewhat
less than potable. I do use it to check weather and news though.


I only use the Windows 8-specific apps for the purpose of checking my
email (the application has improved) and checking the weather. Otherwise,
those apps are repulsive to me.

It was always and is now a workable start option. Even in vanilla Win 8.
Just the corners, and especially the close app gesture, were a bit
inscrutible. I force fed myself the new menu system on a side-use account
so I could help support Win 8 users. It's not horrible, it's just not as
good as the old system, IMHO.


I went into Windows 8 knowing what to expect and I had a lot of experience
with Gnome 3 under GNU/Linux so I was used to the idea of hot corners.
Now, it's become second-nature and I kind of like navigating to the right
of the screen to access the Control Panel. It's become extremely intuitive.

But when you have to look up "How do I close an app?" And you could never
possibly guess. Something's very wrong with the UI system.


It definitely is a drawback. Once you figure it out, it's easy but I admit
that they could have made that one better.

Modern feels bolted on to me. But at least the start page applets are a
hell of a lot more security-wise than gadgets were.

Overall review: meh. Same for the ribbon in Office suites. I can use them
both, but I would prefer a more usable UI.


I never liked the ribbon interface myself through my wife swears by it. As
for the start page, I completely agree with you. Metro and the Desktop
mode seems like two different operating systems. They're essentially like
that atrocity of a car called the Pontiac Aztek where the front looks like
it was designed by someone other than the guy who did the back.
--
Silver Slimer
GNU/Linux is Communism
  #39  
Old January 20th 14, 04:20 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
philo [_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 984
Default What's the deal with Win 8.1 ?

On 01/20/2014 07:55 AM, Silver Slimer wrote:


snip

The truth is that people, in their youth, tend to explore a lot more
than adults do. If a kid can't find something on the computer, he will
keep looking until he finds it and remember how he got there. If an
adult can't find what they're looking for, especially if they're over
30, they won't bother looking because complaining about the product is
so much easier. Mentally, we become very lazy with time.


Though a lot of kids catch on to technology better than adults...
there are plenty of "energetic" adults and lazy kids.



She is not a stupid person, but she learned how to use a computer by
rote. She is not going to intuitively know how to use Win8.


She's not stupid but she is definitely very lazy.



Absolutely and positively NOT the case. That woman held two jobs and
worked seven days a week...plus went to night school. If she had any
extra time at all she'd do volunteer work or travel. She had to have
every minute she was awake scheduled to do something. Bright, energetic
but totally paralyzed if there was anything changed on her computer.


Once you are afraid of something...you get blocked to the point where
you can't think any more...and it's not due to laziness.


snip


PhDs are smart in their own field but that doesn't translate to them
being smart in general. I knew a girl who had the highest grades in high
school and got scholarships to do a Bachelor's and a Master's in
whatever place she wanted on Earth. Smartest cookie I could ever have
imagined but she returned to Montreal (from studying in Germany) to work
a menial job in a bank and eventually become a housewife. It's extremely
disappointed considering how brilliant she was in her field.


Here is one for you:

One of my friends in High School was the school genius. His IQ is 155
and he went on to write drivers for HP. Yep, you have to be bright in
order to do that, but it's hardly like he turned into another Einstein.

He recently moved back to town and I was talking to him about the old
days. He told me his HS GPA was 2.00 !

He stated that he did not feel like doing anymore work that was
absolutely necessary. So that might have been laziness or it might have
just plain been genius. I don't know how easy it would be to get your
GPA to come out exactly even.


Believe me, when MS came up with the Win8 GUI they were not thinking.
They just do not know human psychology.


Windows 98 wasn't very bad in terms of interface. The My Computer icon
was very accessible and made it easy for even the dumbest individual to
find the icon representing a floppy drive. The Start button was also a
very intuitive idea. I wouldn't blame Microsoft for making an
unintuitive product when the reality is that it's literally impossible
to cater to what everyone considers intuitive.



All I can say is that MS has kept the GUI pretty much the same for 20
years. IMHO: The smart thing for MS to have done would have been to have
the default for touch screens to be Metro and the default for standard
monitors to be classic....with a very simply way to change to the other.


  #40  
Old January 20th 14, 05:08 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Silver Slimer[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 340
Default What's the deal with Win 8.1 ?

On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 10:20:37 -0500, philo wrote:

The truth is that people, in their youth, tend to explore a lot more
than adults do. If a kid can't find something on the computer, he will
keep looking until he finds it and remember how he got there. If an
adult can't find what they're looking for, especially if they're over
30, they won't bother looking because complaining about the product is
so much easier. Mentally, we become very lazy with time.


Though a lot of kids catch on to technology better than adults...
there are plenty of "energetic" adults and lazy kids.


Oh, I have no doubt about that. I was simply generalizing.

She is not a stupid person, but she learned how to use a computer by
rote. She is not going to intuitively know how to use Win8.


She's not stupid but she is definitely very lazy.



Absolutely and positively NOT the case. That woman held two jobs and
worked seven days a week...plus went to night school. If she had any
extra time at all she'd do volunteer work or travel. She had to have
every minute she was awake scheduled to do something. Bright, energetic
but totally paralyzed if there was anything changed on her computer.

Once you are afraid of something...you get blocked to the point where
you can't think any more...and it's not due to laziness.


With a packed schedule like that I can see why learning Windows was not
much of a priority for her.

Here is one for you:

One of my friends in High School was the school genius. His IQ is 155
and he went on to write drivers for HP. Yep, you have to be bright in
order to do that, but it's hardly like he turned into another Einstein.

He recently moved back to town and I was talking to him about the old
days. He told me his HS GPA was 2.00 !

He stated that he did not feel like doing anymore work that was
absolutely necessary. So that might have been laziness or it might have
just plain been genius. I don't know how easy it would be to get your
GPA to come out exactly even.


Sounds like me. By the time I got to University, I didn't perform if I
didn't like the subject. I still managed a 3.7 GPA though.

All I can say is that MS has kept the GUI pretty much the same for 20
years. IMHO: The smart thing for MS to have done would have been to have
the default for touch screens to be Metro and the default for standard
monitors to be classic....with a very simply way to change to the other.


I would have absolutely agreed to that. In fact, I'm surprised that the
installation process didn't allow users to simply choose which interface
they'd rather have. Allowing the user to select whether they would rather
have the Classic interface or the New one would have removed a lot of the
complaints people had about the operating system. People would not have
felt forced to acquaint themselves with an incredibly unintuitive product.
--
Silver Slimer
GNU/Linux is Communism
The average GNU/Linux user:
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/38314453.jpg

"That is incorrect. GNU/Linux is worse then communism because at least in
a communist country you would be paid a wage for your work. In GNU/Linux
your work helps some fat cat on wall street earn bigger dividends in his
stock portfolio because nobody had to pay for your work.

Of course, Linus is a big winner since he earns millions of dollars on the
sucker programmers free labor." - Michael Bachmann
  #41  
Old January 20th 14, 05:28 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
philo [_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 984
Default What's the deal with Win 8.1 ?

On 01/20/2014 10:08 AM, Silver Slimer wrote:

snip

Sounds like me. By the time I got to University, I didn't perform if I
didn't like the subject. I still managed a 3.7 GPA though.


I had a 3.7 also but obtained it by ADDING two semesters together.
That was in the late 60's and when the Army saw how great I was doing
highly encouraged me to join their ranks. How could I refuse such an offer.


When I got out of the Army I took my education a bit more seriously.
I used up my entire GI bill going to school and took all required course
for an EE. The problem was that after I got out of the Army I attended a
different college and when it came down to applying for my degree, a few
of the courses did not transfer.

My GI bill was used up and I needed to get a job ASAP so all I was able
to piece together was a Psychology degree.

I got a job as an electronics tech and through night school and mostly
OJT worked my way up to Senior Service Engineer. I am retired now and
still don't know ****. Oh well, it was fun and I am still young enough
to enjoy.



I would have absolutely agreed to that. In fact, I'm surprised that the
installation process didn't allow users to simply choose which interface
they'd rather have. Allowing the user to select whether they would
rather have the Classic interface or the New one would have removed a
lot of the complaints people had about the operating system. People
would not have felt forced to acquaint themselves with an incredibly
unintuitive product.




Yep, and the executives at MS are millionaires and I'm not.


OTOH: Harry S. Truman once thought it funny that all the people "who
know how to run the country are busy driving taxi cabs and cutting hair".
  #42  
Old January 20th 14, 05:45 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Silver Slimer[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 340
Default What's the deal with Win 8.1 ?

On Mon, 20 Jan 2014 11:28:52 -0500, philo wrote:

Sounds like me. By the time I got to University, I didn't perform if I
didn't like the subject. I still managed a 3.7 GPA though.


I had a 3.7 also but obtained it by ADDING two semesters together.
That was in the late 60's and when the Army saw how great I was doing
highly encouraged me to join their ranks. How could I refuse such an
offer.

When I got out of the Army I took my education a bit more seriously.
I used up my entire GI bill going to school and took all required course
for an EE. The problem was that after I got out of the Army I attended a
different college and when it came down to applying for my degree, a few
of the courses did not transfer.

My GI bill was used up and I needed to get a job ASAP so all I was able
to piece together was a Psychology degree.

I got a job as an electronics tech and through night school and mostly
OJT worked my way up to Senior Service Engineer. I am retired now and
still don't know ****. Oh well, it was fun and I am still young enough
to enjoy.


Most of my relatives (the older ones) went through the army having lived
in the Polish Communist regime. They've all become very disciplined
individuals as a result. I have no such interest and enjoy being
relatively care-free.

I would have absolutely agreed to that. In fact, I'm surprised that the
installation process didn't allow users to simply choose which interface
they'd rather have. Allowing the user to select whether they would
rather have the Classic interface or the New one would have removed a
lot of the complaints people had about the operating system. People
would not have felt forced to acquaint themselves with an incredibly
unintuitive product.


Yep, and the executives at MS are millionaires and I'm not.

OTOH: Harry S. Truman once thought it funny that all the people "who
know how to run the country are busy driving taxi cabs and cutting hair".


I think they are different situations. Complaining about politicians is
something everyone does. Everyone thinks they can do better but when faced
with the exact same scenario, they're a lot more clueless than whoever
they elected or would do the exact same thing. In the case of deciding how
Windows 8 should operate, had Microsoft opted to have beta-testers and
listened to their advice, there is no way they would have shipped the
operating system the way they did. I think they sold the product for
39,99$ for a time because they KNEW that a lot of people were going to be
upset with the drastic changes. I know I was happy I hadn't paid more than
40$. Beta-testers would have insisted on what I proposed earlier with the
selection of interfaces or at the very least forced the developers to
release something closer to 8.1.

--
Silver Slimer
GNU/Linux is Communism
The average GNU/Linux user:
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/38314453.jpg

"That is incorrect. GNU/Linux is worse then communism because at least in
a communist country you would be paid a wage for your work. In GNU/Linux
your work helps some fat cat on wall street earn bigger dividends in his
stock portfolio because nobody had to pay for your work.

Of course, Linus is a big winner since he earns millions of dollars on the
sucker programmers free labor." - Michael Bachmann
  #43  
Old January 20th 14, 06:43 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
philo [_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 984
Default What's the deal with Win 8.1 ?

On 01/20/2014 10:45 AM, Silver Slimer wrote:
X

snipped but read

I think they are different situations. Complaining about politicians is
something everyone does. Everyone thinks they can do better but when
faced with the exact same scenario, they're a lot more clueless than
whoever they elected or would do the exact same thing. In the case of
deciding how Windows 8 should operate, had Microsoft opted to have
beta-testers and listened to their advice, there is no way they would
have shipped the operating system the way they did. I think they sold
the product for 39,99$ for a time because they KNEW that a lot of people
were going to be upset with the drastic changes. I know I was happy I
hadn't paid more than 40$. Beta-testers would have insisted on what I
proposed earlier with the selection of interfaces or at the very least
forced the developers to release something closer to 8.1.


I downloaded and installed the evaluation version of Win8.
I did not like the interface but there was a very simple hack to give
the Win7 GUI.

Had I been a Beta tester I would have told MS to have the user make the
decision when they got their new computer and registered it with their name.

Such as:

Windows has detected that you are using a standard monitor. Would you
like to use the Classic interface?



Something like that and with one easy to find button to toggle back and
forth if desired.


Let the user decide what they want rather than force a decision.
  #44  
Old January 21st 14, 12:08 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Gene E. Bloch[_5_]
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Posts: 1,720
Default What's the deal with Win 8.1 ?

On 1/20/2014, Silver Slimer posted:
I would have absolutely agreed to that. In fact, I'm surprised that
the installation process didn't allow users to simply choose which
interface they'd rather have. Allowing the user to select whether
they would rather have the Classic interface or the New one would
have removed a lot of the complaints people had about the operating
system. People would not have felt forced to acquaint themselves with
an incredibly unintuitive product.


OK if it *allows* users to choose the interface, but not if it
*requires* them to do so[1].

How would I, Sally Silly, new to W8, have any idea what to choose?

[1] And the installation process should make it clear - *really clear*
- how to make or revise that decision later.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
  #45  
Old January 21st 14, 12:55 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
philo [_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 984
Default What's the deal with Win 8.1 ?

On 01/20/2014 05:08 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On 1/20/2014, Silver Slimer posted:
I would have absolutely agreed to that. In fact, I'm surprised that
the installation process didn't allow users to simply choose which
interface they'd rather have. Allowing the user to select whether they
would rather have the Classic interface or the New one would have
removed a lot of the complaints people had about the operating system.
People would not have felt forced to acquaint themselves with an
incredibly unintuitive product.


OK if it *allows* users to choose the interface, but not if it
*requires* them to do so[1].

How would I, Sally Silly, new to W8, have any idea what to choose?

[1] And the installation process should make it clear - *really clear* -
how to make or revise that decision later.




Just have touch screens default to Metro

and standard screens default to classic


very simple
 




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