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Toshiba W-7 went dark



 
 
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  #196  
Old March 21st 18, 06:21 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
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Posts: 2,679
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

In message , HB writes:
[]
Rescue disks don't work. They didn't work for the other two that had this
black screen w/blinker and they'er not working now. For some reason the
Toshiba is unable to read them. Macrium will not download. I get the
installer OK, but then get an unable to download error.


Paul, any ideas?
[]
Nothing said it would boot from a DVD if no keys were pressed. ***** The
Toshiba saw the rescue CD,said "press any key to bootfrom CD or DVD."*****


If you're then pressing a key, I don't know what the problem is.
[]
4. Best case: just some of the files have been corrupted (ones that
Windows needs to be able to boot); if that's the case, we just need to
repair those files.


If we can get past the "disk read error occured" error.


Which suggests it might be worse than the best case.

1 and 2, you'd probably do on the Toshiba itself; 3 and 4 we might help
you to do on the Toshiba having booted from some sort of CD/DVD (Linux,
Windows repair disc, Macrium boot disc, ...), or we might help you to do
by taking the drive out and connecting it to something else.


That was discussed here already. The "dock" thing. I need that thing I can
plug the 2 ribbon cables into and then plug that into the USB port on this
PC.

With the dock I've shown you, you plug the drive into one of the two
slots on top of the dock; there are connectors in the bottom of the slot
which mate with the connectors on the end of the drive. You then connect
a USB lead (which comes with the dock) from the back panel of the dock
to a USB port on a (working) PC.

You get the information that all parts of the laptop except the drive are
OK; we have yet to determine whether the drive is faulty or just corrupted
(see next post). If the drive is just corrupted, then Linux may well be of
use in fixing that (though not with me giving the help).


With no help it's of no use to me. I never heard of one OS showing the
system info of another OS and fixing it, though it may be possible.


I believe it is, though I don't know enough about Linux to know the
details. Linux won't have the necessary files to repair a Windows
installation if actual Windows files are corrupted, but it can:
o interrogate the hardware of the drive to some extent
o repair things like the partition table and boot sector

The first is what we've been trying to do with fatdog's terminal and
that command that begins with s. If you enter that command, _exactly_ as
Paul specified it - so that you _don't_ get either "command not
recognised" or "wrong number of parameters" - you should get something
that, when you show it to us via a screenshot, will tell us _something_
more about the hard drive than we know now. Similarly with the fdisk
command and its subsidiaries, as detailed by I think Java Jive.
[]
I've just looked at mine, and there's no maker's name on it anywhere - it
just says "ALL IN 1 HDD Docking" on the front of it.

that. The back slot is for SATA drives. I think this is the image:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/DvYAA...eW/s-l1600.jpg


The bottom image is the one I think would work. I assume need a cable to go
from it to the healthy PC.


A cable that goes from the back of the dock to the healthy PC should
come with the dock. Check the details of the listing (or in the box if
you actually find somewhere that stocks them) to be sure you get: the
dock; a power supply; and the USB lead.
[]
https://www.ebay.com/itm/151504204416 Seems to be a US seller (I'm
assuming you're in the US).


I am.

Here's the "cable", which is cheaper:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/172256326228 - the search phrase is "USB to
SATA", and you should find even cheaper, though make sure it's one with a
power supply. You will see the connectors you want, on the ends of the
power supply (four wires) and SATA (red) cables.


The ends on the red one don't look like they are for USB ports.


No. The third image on that listing gives a clearer view. The red (SATA
data) lead goes from the smaller connector on the drive, to the top of
the big black plug with the coiled clear lead attached to it. The power
supply feeds, via the four wire (black yellow black red) adapter lead,
into the larger (SATA power) connector on the drive. The other end of
the coiled clear lead is the USB plug that goes into your working PC.
(The big black plug actually has three connectors on it: the long ones
on the sides are for use with desktop and portable IDE drives - the SATA
one is on its top, near the end furthest from the USB cable.)

Here's the housing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/112652273779 - you can't see
the connectors, but be assured they're on the back of the circuit board
you can see in the second picture. Search for "external housing" or
similar.


What is the housing for? The HD from the Toshiba is inclosed with 2 ribbon
cables.


You take it out of the Toshiba, and put it into the housing (the ends of
the housing come off); there are two connectors on the back of the PCB
you can see at one end of the housing in the second picture which mate
with the two connectors on the drive. What you end up with looks very
like your Seagate drive, and is used in much the same way - you connect
its USB lead to a working PC (using two USB sockets at the PC end).
[]
If you had to buy an unused Windows 7 disc/licence [assuming you could
find one!], it probably _would_ not be economic compared to the cost of a
new PC. If we can find you one which you do not have to pay for - which I
think you're entitled to, having (or your aunt having) bought it with the
PC, and it's the same PC you're trying to fix - then I would say it _is_
worth it, even if you had to buy a new HD. It would _certainly_ be worth
making a Linux PC out of it, since Linux is mostly free, but like you _I_
would not really want that.


No, I don't care for it. And as far as I know her games wont play on it.


Probably not. There is something called WINE, which is a program that
runs under Linux, which makes it imitate Windows, and can run some
Windows software, but I suspect many games would not.

BTW I'm forwarding this info to myself so I have it.

At this point I'm mentally exhausted trying to figure out what's wrong with
the Toshiba. I just can't absorb any more. I wish I knew someone who enjoyed


I think we've established with a fair degree of certainty that it is
only its HD which has any problem - the rest of it is fine. What we
still have to establish is whether the HD's electronics and/or mechanics
are at fault, or whether there is just some file/folder/partition
corruption: Paul's s... command and JJ's fdisk one, run from fatdog
Linux's Terminal window, might get us closer to knowing that. (As would
accessing the drive from your working PC using a dock, "cable", or
housing, but the Linux way is easier at the moment since you don't have
a dock, "cable", or housing.)

spending hours online reading the most boring dry computer information and


Sorry if we're boring!

working on computers. I'm not that person. I would happily give them the
Toshiba to work on and keep. I had no idea what was involved in solving the
black-screen-of-death.

BTW, the new Notebook with W-10, 8 GBs RAM and a 1 TB HD was under $400 tax
included at our local WalMart store.


A new HD should be $70 or less, probably much less, especially if you go
for one of lower capacity than 1 TB. But only if you actually need one,
which we haven't established yet.

If you can't tolerate critics, don't do anything new or interesting. Jeff
Bezos
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/topics/interestingIf you can't
tolerate critics, don't do anything new or interesting. Jeff Bezos
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/topics/interesting


--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography. -Ambrose Bierce, writer
(1842-1914)
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  #197  
Old March 21st 18, 06:23 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mike Easter
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Posts: 1,064
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark (running from disc)

HB wrote:

https://postimg.org/gallery/38afbakly/


I'm looking at the 4th IM004776.jpg of the fatdog desktop and I think I
see an icon for sda1. If so, that is a positive sign that fatdog sees
something (like your hdd). I would've like to have seen sda1 & sda2 (2
parts, 1 for recovery), but there are various ways of hiding a restore
partition.

I'm not sure because when I zoom the .jpg to read the icon's letters the
pixels start coming apart.

--
Mike Easter
  #198  
Old March 21st 18, 06:30 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
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Posts: 2,679
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

In message , Patrick
writes:
On 21/03/2018 12:08, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
Here's the "cable", which is cheaper:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/172256326228 - the search phrase is "USB to
SATA", and you should find even cheaper, though make sure it's one
with a power supply. You will see the connectors you want, on the
ends of the power supply (four wires) and SATA (red) cables.


Whoops, I jumped the gun there

By the way, (in case anyone dosn't know; 2.5 HDD dosnt need a 12v
supply, it will run from the USB's 5v.


True. However, some do need more power - especially for the initial
spin-up from stationary - than a single USB socket can supply (nominally
max. 0.5 A); that's why I steer towards an external supply, or at least
one where the PC end of the USB cable has two plugs if the "cable"
_doesn't_ come with a power supply.

(The above is quite a fancy version of a "cable", being able to support
SATA and IDE, and having a power supply.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

But this can only happen if we replace the urge to blame with the urge to
learn so that it is safe for staff to admit errors and raise concerns without
the fear of being punished.
- Former MI5 boss Eliza Manningham-Buller, RT 2016/5/7-13
  #199  
Old March 21st 18, 06:34 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mike Easter
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Posts: 1,064
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark (running from disc)

Oops. typo
s/smartctrl/smartctl/

Mike Easter wrote:

The second time you used:

smartctrl -a /dev/sda return


I meant you input smartctl not 'smartctrl'

That was not an acceptable command for smartctl either (return string
bafflement) and smartctl told you so.



--
Mike Easter
  #200  
Old March 21st 18, 06:43 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark (loaded fatdog)

HB wrote:
"Patrick" wrote in message
news
On 20/03/2018 07:59, HB wrote:
There is nothing like that to be seen. It says FATDOG in the center of
the
screen with the few icons along the left hand side and bottom. I'm
looking
at it now. It's running in RAM, not from the HD.

The Icons along the bottom, do you not see the Icon that looks like '_'
and is pointed to by an arrow drawn by Paul that says 'Terminal'? if you
do then click-it.


Found it - No image shows after typing in some kind of code.

https://postimg.org/gallery/38afbakly/


Your first command, it looks like you typed a capital S.

The second command, you were supposed to type

smartctl -a /dev/sda

One of your pictures shows an interesting thing. The hard drive
shows a single partition of sda1. Which would be a little
unusual for an OEM disk setup. Or for that matter, for a
Windows 7 retail install. An OEM-prepared drive would
have things like 14GB recovery partition, a System Reserved,
and a C: partition.

I take that to mean, Fatdog doesn't "see" a second partition,
meaning other partitions are damaged or the partitions are
no longer in the partition table.

Normally, I would try running "testdisk", but the interface
is pretty horrible, and one of the operations involves starting
a scan, stopping it, and *then* it presents a menu opportunity
to examine the files inside the partition.

And you definitely don't want to write a new partition table
to the disk (as testdisk would like to suggest), unless you
have evidence the new partition table bears some resemblance
to "the truth". Many times, I've used testdisk and it finds
"phantom" partitions. It requires the human operator to be
the "arbiter of good taste", and make the right decision.
If you accept and write a new MBR value which is incorrect,
it can cause immediate data destruction.

But for just displaying the existence of files in a partition,
it's a great tool to have onboard.

The "ddrescue" test can prove the drive is readable, even though
your original error report said "disk read error". A ddrescue scan
would give some idea how sick the drive was. Even the smartctl
report of Reallocated Sectors "raw data value" would be of
some assistance.

Paul
  #201  
Old March 21st 18, 06:47 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark (running from disc)

Java Jive wrote:
On 20/03/2018 11:14, Mike Easter wrote:

Later he got fatdog to boot:


Then I must apologise for sowing this thread with an even greater level
of confusion than that which caused me to miss that post!

If he gets to a command prompt, then he might care to try giving the
command (in all that follows, the precededing sudo may not be required,
it would be in Ubuntu, but I don't know about this distro that he's using):
sudo lilo --helpEnter

If he gets a page of help, rather than a terse message similar to ...
lilo not found
... then the command ...
sudo lilo -M device mbrEnter
... will fix the MBR on his hard disk. But first we would have to help
him find out what to use for device. As it's fairly recent, it's
likely to be /dev/sda, making the command ...
sudo lilo -M /dev/sda mbrEnter
... but again, I don't know the distro, so others may be able to give
better advice as to how to determine the hard disk's device designation.


In his picture of the Fatdog64 desktop, it shows the
existence of sda1. Which means the hard drive is visible.
But something is horribly wrong with the partitions
detected so far. As an OEM or even a Retail Windows 7
should have more partitions than just "sda1".

Even using

fdisk /dev/sda
p === prints the MBR partitiont able
q === quits running of fdisk command

would give some idea what the partition setup is like.

The command

disktype /dev/sda

can also give that information, as long as disktype is present.
it will show the partitions it can see/read.

Paul
  #202  
Old March 21st 18, 06:52 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark (running from disc)

HB wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message
news
Java Jive wrote:

a screenshot
But he hasn't got a GUI!

TBH with you, I have *no idea* what's on his screen.
Not a clue.


https://postimg.org/gallery/38afbakly/

The Fatdog screen comes up with the icons on the side and bottom, dog in the
center, but not that image after I type in the code in the command/terminal
window. Maybe because it runs from the DVD and is not installed on the HD.


I didn't want it on the hard drive :-)

I wanted it to:

1) Prove the machine boots.
2) Use as a platform for various, randomly picked, commands.

We now know the machine isn't a candidate for the dumpster.

it has a hard drive of questionable heritage. That's all we know.

Commands are available in FatDog64, to pick at it, pick over the carcass.

What we don't have (and don't want at the moment) is CHKDSK.

If you use CHKDSK on a "sick" hard drive, the outcome is
random. It could be a good or a bad outcome.

One of the reasons I wanted a ddrescue "scan", is to see
if the hard drive is on the verge of death or not. Or,
it's "just" some software issue that has trashed a partition.

Your Fatdog64 picture shows the drive having "sda1", which is
too few partitions for my liking, and implies a partition is
sick or has gone missing. My OEM laptop had three partitions
at least, before I messed with it.

Paul
  #203  
Old March 21st 18, 07:04 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark (running from disc)

HB wrote:

I've read what seems to be hundreds of pages and have not found the answer
to getting the Toshiba to boot.


This is true.

I hope you weren't expecting miracles.

The way USENET normally works, is we give "hints" to the
best of our ability. The poster uses their wealth of computer
experience to fill in the cracks (as it were). You, the poster,
perform the actual repair. We just comment and offer
encouragement from the bleachers.

You're not a totally naive computer user, because you've
already demonstrated the ability to upload photos of
the desktop (without being prompted). You've managed to
post to USENET. We know you have a certain level of
sophistication. You're not my mom :-)

One of our objectives here, is *not to break your stuff*.

We go out of our way, to try not to destroy your
only chance to repair a computer.

*******

When ever I'm involved in a computer issue, the
first thing I do, is a backup of the sick item.

I like to have two hard drives. One drive holds
an "image" of the sick item. The second drive is used
to hold scavenged files, if the user wants their data back
and doesn't care about the OS.

I'm not an IT guy or a Geek Squad guy.
A Geek Squad guy doesn't make a backup of your hard drive.
A Geek Squad guy just "goes for it". If CHKDSK trashes the
disk, he reinstalls the OS and charges you $200 and says
"Done". Professional repair people watch the clock. Their
flowchart for repair, is a lot more brutal than ours would
be.

One objective of getting you a Win7 DVD disc, is to
reinstall the OS, if you cannot make a repair. So
there's always a final outcome of needing to reinstall.
But before throwing in the towel that way, it would
be good to know whether the hard drive is even
healthy enough to accept an installation. You might
get half way through and have it crash for example.
Small 2.5" hard drives are available for around $50-$60
or so, if worse comes to worse. Such drives are normally
9.5mm thick. There might be some platforms which use
7mm drives (and shallow drive bay), but for the most part,
the bay should have a 9.5mm one in it now.

Paul
  #204  
Old March 21st 18, 07:57 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mike Easter
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Posts: 1,064
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark (running from disc)

Paul wrote:
Even using

Â*Â* fdisk /dev/sda
Â*Â* pÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* === prints the MBR partitiont able
Â*Â* qÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* === quits running of fdisk command

would give some idea what the partition setup is like.


I like that idea.

HB may not understand how that command structure works for fdisk.

When fdisk /dev/sda is running, it is awaiting additional commands, so
the prompt becomes

Command (m for help)

Then he inputs 'p' (no quote) as you say above, with its result, and
then the above command request returns and he inputs 'q' no quote to
quit fdisk.

--
Mike Easter
  #205  
Old March 21st 18, 08:28 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mike Easter
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Posts: 1,064
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark (running from disc)

Mike Easter wrote:
Paul wrote:
Even using

Â*Â*Â* fdisk /dev/sda
Â*Â*Â* pÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* === prints the MBR partitiont able
Â*Â*Â* qÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* === quits running of fdisk command

would give some idea what the partition setup is like.


I like that idea.


I'm trying to figure out an uncomplicated way for HB to provide
screenshot from fatdog.

Some kind of screensaver is activated when prtscr is used, because the
cursor changes and it can draw a selection around whatever. I thought
that the screensaver so activated by prtscr was xscreensaver because of
a message in the puppy forum, but I can't figure out how to use whatever
has been activated with prtscr. So far I have only been able to go back
to the default cursor with prtscr again, but nothing is in the clipboard
for mtpaint with that sequence.

Fatdog default also includes an mtpaint snapshot tool which will
faciliate a screenshot with onscreen instructions. That is found in the
graphics subsection of the menu.

--
Mike Easter
  #206  
Old March 21st 18, 08:32 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mike Easter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,064
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark (running from disc)

saying 'screensaver' when he/I means screenshot...

Mike Easter wrote:

Some kind of screensaver is activated when prtscr is used, because the
cursor changes and it can draw a selection around whatever.Â* I thought
that the screensaver so activated by prtscr was xscreensaver because of
a message in the puppy forum, but I can't figure out how to use whatever
has been activated with prtscr.Â* So far I have only been able to go back
to the default cursor with prtscr again, but nothing is in the clipboard
for mtpaint with that sequence.


Some kind of screenshot is activated when PrtScr is used because the
cursor changes and it can draw a selection; but having drawn that
selection, the cursor is still in the drawing mode, and doesn't change
with a R click.

Fatdog default also includes an mtpaint snapshot tool which will
faciliate a screenshot with onscreen instructions.Â* That is found in the
graphics subsection of the menu.




--
Mike Easter
  #207  
Old March 21st 18, 08:51 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
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Posts: 2,679
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark (running from disc)

In message , Mike Easter
writes:
Mike Easter wrote:
Paul wrote:
Even using

*** fdisk /dev/sda
*** p********************** === prints the MBR partitiont able
*** q********************** === quits running of fdisk command

would give some idea what the partition setup is like.

I like that idea.


I'm trying to figure out an uncomplicated way for HB to provide
screenshot from fatdog.


Although not ideal, I think the ones he's provided so far are just about
usable. Certainly where we know what the result should look like, as in
the s... command Paul is asking him to run (gives a dump of SMART data),
and presumably the three lines above (I don't know what the partition
table will look like, but I guess some here will).

Some kind of screensaver is activated when prtscr is used, because the

[]
Fatdog default also includes an mtpaint snapshot tool which will
faciliate a screenshot with onscreen instructions. That is found in
the graphics subsection of the menu.

I suspect that would be too complex for him at the moment.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Where [other presenters] tackle the world with a box of watercolours, he
takes a spanner. - David Butcher (on Guy Martin), RT 2015/1/31-2/6
  #208  
Old March 21st 18, 08:56 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mike Easter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,064
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark (running from disc)

Mike Easter wrote:
I'm trying to figure out an uncomplicated way for HB to provide
screenshot from fatdog.


Aha. I'm getting control of this thing.

It is better to start the screenshot from the commandline instead of PrtScr.

Then you get instructions and better/expected behavior. When started with

xscreenshot

a dialog opens to tell you to draw your selection and when the L
mousebutton is let go, the screenshot is complete and a .png of your
selection has been saved to fatdog's root directory.

That still requires HB to be able to use fatdog's browser (SeaMonkey
2.48) and to be able to use its fileselector to navigate to the .png.

Another complication is that the default mode is to save the .png in
root's directory, but that directory is not accessible from SM's file
selector. The easiest way to mitigate that is to open the filemanager
from the taskbar (which opens root's directory) and copy the .png into
the default Spot directory. SM can find it there when he wants to paste
it into postimg.org

--
Mike Easter
  #209  
Old March 21st 18, 09:11 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , HB writes:
[]
Rescue disks don't work. They didn't work for the other two that had this
black screen w/blinker and they'er not working now. For some reason the
Toshiba is unable to read them. Macrium will not download. I get the
installer OK, but then get an unable to download error.


Paul, any ideas?
[]


While ReflectDLHF.exe 7.1.2646.0 is running, it reports what is
going on in here. It there is an error, it might be noted in this file.

C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Macrium\ReflectDL\ReflectDL.log

I put a copy of my logfile here. This is text and readable
in a browser. Notice that the log doesn't show where the
files are actually coming from.

https://pastebin.com/eiqN6rFp

The download should be done in two pieces. The user
should select just the Macrium portion first. Then do the
WinPE5 or WinPE10 download as a separate step. The WinPE5 and WinPE10
are likely to work with a UEFI-only computer (not set for UEFI+CSM),
as well as offering driver support for USB3 and various NICs.

I'm going to run the download a second time, and use
Wireshark to log the source.

Source: daks4cgsf00ej.cloudfront.net (52.84.143.55) === (a Macrium rental?)

The WinPE10 is 808MB of download data. And is bigger
than the default (less useful) WinPE3 at less than 200MB.
Once it's downloaded, Macrium compresses the download
into a 432MB package.

Source: e3673.dscg.akamaiedge.net (23.34.218.252) === A Microsoft CDN ?

There's nothing too spooky looking about that.
Looks pretty normal for a "Content Distribution Network" CDN download source.
Should have worked.

Paul
  #210  
Old March 21st 18, 09:35 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mike Easter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,064
Default Toshiba W-7 went dark (running from disc)

Mike Easter wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:
I'm trying to figure out an uncomplicated way for HB to provide
screenshot from fatdog.


Aha.Â* I'm getting control of this thing.


Without the terminal, PrtScr activates xscreenshot and the cursor
changes and the left mouse can be used to make the selection. Then
ctrl-shft-PrtScr terminates the xscreenshot and by default puts the
selection .png into the root directory. Using the filemanager on the
taskbar opens that directory and the .png can be dragged into the Spot
directory which is present by default. PrtScr is xscreensaver's default
hotkey.

SeaMonkey can be used to access postimg.org and paste in the .png and
can access the Spot directory by default.

That method eliminates having to give xcreenshot any commands from the
terminal which command options can be seen with xscreenshot -h. It
requires HB to use SM to open the Spot directory which is seen in the L
pane of its file manager to give the .png to postimg.org.

--
Mike Easter
 




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