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  #1  
Old January 2nd 18, 07:29 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,538
Default Gaming Computer

I want a box that can handle all the latest games; the ones that demand
everything of the best.
I've been looking around now for a few weeks, but the market is so
confusing.
Money is not much of an object; well, let's say 5k GBP max.

Should I get one purpose-built? Or a new year bargain?

My gut feeling says 16GB RAM (DDR7); 500GB SSD with 2TB spinner; good
video card; i7 quad-core CPU.

Who knows better?

Ed
  #2  
Old January 2nd 18, 08:05 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,547
Default Gaming Computer

On 01/02/2018 1:29 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
I want a box that can handle all the latest games; the ones that demand
everything of the best.
I've been looking around now for a few weeks, but the market is so
confusing.
Money is not much of an object; well, let's say 5k GBP max.

Should I get one purpose-built? Or a new year bargain?

My gut feeling says 16GB RAM (DDR7); 500GB SSD with 2TB spinner; good
video card; i7 quad-core CPU.

Who knows better?

Ed


You are definitely on the right track.
CPU i7 7700K or thereabouts, Lots of choices.
Don't forget a good quality modular power supply around 750 watts and a
good CPU cooler. Air is OK, some prefer liquid.
Good IPS monitor 24 to 27 inch, I love my 27 inch.
I prefer to build mine but some buy ready made, up to you.
Keep us informed.

Happy new year Rene



  #3  
Old January 2nd 18, 08:06 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
pjp[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,038
Default Gaming Computer

In article , says...

I want a box that can handle all the latest games; the ones that demand
everything of the best.
I've been looking around now for a few weeks, but the market is so
confusing.
Money is not much of an object; well, let's say 5k GBP max.

Should I get one purpose-built? Or a new year bargain?

My gut feeling says 16GB RAM (DDR7); 500GB SSD with 2TB spinner; good
video card; i7 quad-core CPU.

Who knows better?

Ed


I'd say so long as it has latest cpu then it all comes down to video
card selected and it's driver of course SSD is great for fast loading
but even a spinner won't show any noticable lag loading items once game
started using such a rig.

That's unless you're one of those folks likes to "brag" he has fastest
unit and wants benchmarks etc. to prove it in which case why the heck
you asking here when there's much more knowledgable places devoted to
that topic?

I'd suggest criteria today seems to be have 64 bit Windows as most
"big" games I see now-a-days seem to demand that. So does using more
than 3Gb ram so it's stupid not to and a neccessity with 15Gb.

I stopped trying to keep up with pc games as it's just too expensive and
instead just bought a console and modded it I also find games aren't
really getting any better, just harder because of increased resolution
etc. I go tired of trying to play a game that I even had difficulties
getting thru the training session!! Mind you, almost 70 now
  #4  
Old January 2nd 18, 09:29 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Big Al[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,153
Default Gaming Computer

On 01/02/2018 02:29 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
I want a box that can handle all the latest games; the ones that demand
everything of the best.
I've been looking around now for a few weeks, but the market is so
confusing.
Money is not much of an object; well, let's say 5k GBP max.

Should I get one purpose-built? Or a new year bargain?

My gut feeling says 16GB RAM (DDR7); 500GB SSD with 2TB spinner; good
video card; i7 quad-core CPU.

Who knows better?

Ed

And of course the SSD is not a hard drive looking one but one of the
newer card type SSDs that plug directly into the mobo.

A friend of mine did some research, and I have no idea what he was
talking about, but there seems to be different interfaces for these
SSDs. Some go through the SATA port and some right onto the mobo. Not
sure but like a PCIe card?

Again I don't know but it's worth looking into, that or someone else
will give you better details. All I remember is he went from slow data
rates to super fast rates that exceeded and SSD HD I've seen.

Yes, good luck, if money isn't the issue, you should be able to easily
do it, it's just finding the right stuff.

  #5  
Old January 2nd 18, 09:40 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,547
Default Gaming Computer

On 01/02/2018 3:29 PM, Big Al wrote:
On 01/02/2018 02:29 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
I want a box that can handle all the latest games; the ones that
demand everything of the best.
I've been looking around now for a few weeks, but the market is so
confusing.
Money is not much of an object; well, let's say 5k GBP max.

Should I get one purpose-built? Or a new year bargain?

My gut feeling says 16GB RAM (DDR7); 500GB SSD with 2TB spinner; good
video card; i7 quad-core CPU.

Who knows better?

Ed

And of course the SSD is not a hard drive looking one but one of the
newer card type SSDs that plug directly into the mobo.

A friend of mine did some research, and I have no idea what he was
talking about, but there seems to be different interfaces for these
SSDs.¬* Some go through the SATA port and some right onto the mobo.¬* Not
sure but like a PCIe card?

Again I don't know but it's worth looking into, that or someone else
will give you better details.¬* All I remember is he went from slow data
rates to super fast rates that exceeded and SSD HD I've seen.

Yes, good luck, if money isn't the issue, you should be able to easily
do it, it's just finding the right stuff.


Hi AL, I think you mean MVNe -m2 drives, Yes superfast.

Rene

  #6  
Old January 2nd 18, 09:57 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Big Al[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,153
Default Gaming Computer

On 01/02/2018 04:40 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 01/02/2018 3:29 PM, Big Al wrote:
On 01/02/2018 02:29 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
I want a box that can handle all the latest games; the ones that
demand everything of the best.
I've been looking around now for a few weeks, but the market is so
confusing.
Money is not much of an object; well, let's say 5k GBP max.

Should I get one purpose-built? Or a new year bargain?

My gut feeling says 16GB RAM (DDR7); 500GB SSD with 2TB spinner; good
video card; i7 quad-core CPU.

Who knows better?

Ed

And of course the SSD is not a hard drive looking one but one of the
newer card type SSDs that plug directly into the mobo.

A friend of mine did some research, and I have no idea what he was
talking about, but there seems to be different interfaces for these
SSDs.¬* Some go through the SATA port and some right onto the mobo.
Not sure but like a PCIe card?

Again I don't know but it's worth looking into, that or someone else
will give you better details.¬* All I remember is he went from slow
data rates to super fast rates that exceeded and SSD HD I've seen.

Yes, good luck, if money isn't the issue, you should be able to easily
do it, it's just finding the right stuff.


Hi AL, I think you mean MVNe -m2 drives, Yes superfast.

Rene

Yes, from what my buddy said, he read marked improvements. And bought
one too. :-)
He's now trying to figure out what the heck the usb 3.1 port is good
for. Can't find too much hardware that demands it.
  #7  
Old January 2nd 18, 10:04 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,871
Default Gaming Computer

Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 01/02/2018 3:29 PM, Big Al wrote:
On 01/02/2018 02:29 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
I want a box that can handle all the latest games; the ones that
demand everything of the best.
I've been looking around now for a few weeks, but the market is so
confusing.
Money is not much of an object; well, let's say 5k GBP max.

Should I get one purpose-built? Or a new year bargain?

My gut feeling says 16GB RAM (DDR7); 500GB SSD with 2TB spinner; good
video card; i7 quad-core CPU.

Who knows better?

Ed

And of course the SSD is not a hard drive looking one but one of the
newer card type SSDs that plug directly into the mobo.

A friend of mine did some research, and I have no idea what he was
talking about, but there seems to be different interfaces for these
SSDs. Some go through the SATA port and some right onto the mobo.
Not sure but like a PCIe card?

Again I don't know but it's worth looking into, that or someone else
will give you better details. All I remember is he went from slow
data rates to super fast rates that exceeded and SSD HD I've seen.

Yes, good luck, if money isn't the issue, you should be able to easily
do it, it's just finding the right stuff.


Hi AL, I think you mean MVNe -m2 drives, Yes superfast.

Rene


There are SATA III SSDs.

They keep making new standards for these, but they don't stick.

*******

There are M.2 surface mount SSDs that sit on the motherboard (4GB/sec max).

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16820147596

SAMSUNG 960 PRO M.2 512GB NVMe PCI-Express 3.0 x4 Internal $300

Max Sequential Read Up to 3500 MBps
Max Sequential Write Up to 2100 MBps

4KB Random Read Up to 330,000 IOPS (4KB, QD32)
Up to 14,000 IOPS (4KB, QD1)

*******

There is a PCI Express form factor SSD, which probably
still has a roughly 4GB/sec max speed. These are NVMe.

Some of these cheat, and you find an M.2 card inside sitting
on an adapter.

https://images.anandtech.com/galleri...3/IMGP3852.jpg

There is a Canadian company that makes an adapter card,
that holds 4 M.2 at the same time, all running at full rate.
So if you want crazy, you can actually have crazy at a
reasonable price. You don't have to waste motherboard
surface area on planar M.2 mounts.

The Intel ones, might have a slower sustained, but better
random access at a lower queue depth. This might matter
if you were a software developer doing builds every day on
your machine, but things like this seem to be overkill to
me for regular desktops. Still, people buy the M.2 ones
quite regularly now. This doesn't use conventional Flash,
but uses 3D X-Point. Intel is trying to find a way to
prime the pump, and pay for the factory.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12136...p-480gb-review

Paul
  #8  
Old January 2nd 18, 09:48 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,871
Default Gaming Computer

Ed Cryer wrote:
I want a box that can handle all the latest games; the ones that demand
everything of the best.
I've been looking around now for a few weeks, but the market is so
confusing.
Money is not much of an object; well, let's say 5k GBP max.

Should I get one purpose-built? Or a new year bargain?

My gut feeling says 16GB RAM (DDR7); 500GB SSD with 2TB spinner; good
video card; i7 quad-core CPU.

Who knows better?

Ed


You can start by looking at benchmarks.

Not only is there i7 now, there are a few i9 models.

This is a list I made for somebody a few days ago. LGA2066.

RAMCH PCIE AVX512
i9-7980XE (24.75M cache, 18 Cores, 36 Threads, 2.60 GHz) $1,979 4 44
i9-7960X (22M cache, 16 Cores, 32 Threads, 2.80 GHz) $1,684 4 44
i9-7940X (19.25M cache, 14 Cores, 28 Threads, 3.10 GHz) $1,387 4 44
i9-7920X (16.5M cache, 12 Cores, 24 Threads, 2.90 GHz) $1,189 4 44
i9-7900X (13.75M cache, 10 Cores, 20 Threads, 3.30 GHz) $ 989 4 44
i7-7820X (11M cache, 8 Cores, 16 Threads, 3.60 GHz) $ 589 4 28
i7-7800X (8.25M cache, 6 Cores, 12 Threads, 3.50 GHz) $ 383 4 28 Yes
i7-7740X (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 4.30 GHz) $ 339 2 16 No
i5-7640X (6M cache, 4 Cores, 4 Threads, 4.00 GHz) $ 242 2 16

The bottom two processors, seem to be LGA1151 CPUs placed into an
LGA2066 package. Weird. (Intel price list follows...)

https://s21.q4cdn.com/600692695/file...Price_List.pdf

If you're content with one video card in the box, then the PCI Express
lane issue isn't too much of a deal. You can buy the 7820X, which
has "enough" cores by any gaming stretch of the imagination, enough
lanes to get by with, and is $589.

A sample motherboard of no particular pedigree ($263) is here.

http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList...x299-ud4_e.pdf

Page 10 of that manual, shows you what happens to RAM when you
run a 7740X and only half the DIMM slots work.

Page 11 of that manual, shows which PCI Express slots are disabled
when you use a 28 lane CPU. The slot next to the CPU is
fully functional. The second slot is functional, but half-wired.
The third slot is no-connect when a 28 lane CPU is installed.
This makes the 28 lane processor definitely and for sure
good enough for a single video card system, even if one
or two slots may be disabled by that choice.

If you run a more expensive CPU, with all 44 lanes, the clock speed
starts to drop, and any game with a "boss thread", the boss thread
runs a bit slower. That's why you look at the following two links, to
find the best combination of benches.

*******

Multi-threaded benchmark. Gives an idea how fast 7ZIP will compress files.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

Single-threaded benchmark. More indicative of "desktop speed feeling".

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

*******

You also have to factor in OS support. Microsoft wants your new
purchase to only run Windows 10. Microsoft will disable Windows
Update for earlier OSes, if you use Kaby Lake or Coffee Lake and
so on. And I don't know if Microsoft includes Skylake-X in the
Coffee Lake club, or in the older Skylake club.

*******

For an LGA1151 system (still usable for gaming but not over
the top like the above stuff), you have things like this.

Coffee Lake - needs the newest LGA1151 with 300 series chipset.
Won't work in your older LGA1151 motherboard.
Dual channel memory, four memory slots.

https://ark.intel.com/products/12668...up-to-4_70-GHz

The price on these is a little jacked up at the moment in the store.
Turbo goes to 4.7GHz on one or two cores perhaps. (There are
turbo-tables kicking around with the details.)

i7-8700K (12M cache, 6 Cores, 12 Threads, 3.70 GHz) $359

The kicker is, the PCI Express lanes is roughly 16, plus the
lanes off the DMI bus and Southbridge. So this is
strictly a one-video-card system. The LGA2066 gives
a bit more room for a couple cards. But really, the
LGA2066 only satisfies every wish when a 44 lane processor
is being used, and then you take a hit on clock speed.

I would think in practical situations, the 8700K would be
a good match for the 7820X. It won't 7ZIP a bunch of
files quite as quickly, but it's likely to game OK.
It's hard to imagine a game with 12 threads where the
additional threads offer that much more speed. Would
a game run faster if it could fork 16 threads ? Hmmm.

For a high end video card, they only begin to drag a bit,
when driving a 4K monitor. If that's your intention,
then you'll "need to do a bit more research" :-)
As that will really challenge your research skills
(to buy something and not have regrets later).

I budget around one month of reading assignments,
when I haven't done a build in a while, to prepare
for stuff like this. Because the Intel marketing weenies
are involved, it's easy to get burned.

You might not know, but I'm not a big fan of SLI or Crossfire.
It might sell a lot of extra video cards. It might
make the power company happy, to hit you with a higher
bill. It makes the room warm in winter. But only the
most outrageous screen needs a box full (44 lane) system
to drive it. Competition gamers might use a
1920x1080 144Hz screen for example, with 2ms TN panel.
And then the one video card is plenty for the screen
dimension at least.

Paul
  #9  
Old January 2nd 18, 10:37 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Rene Lamontagne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,547
Default Gaming Computer

On 01/02/2018 3:48 PM, Paul wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
I want a box that can handle all the latest games; the ones that
demand everything of the best.
I've been looking around now for a few weeks, but the market is so
confusing.
Money is not much of an object; well, let's say 5k GBP max.

Should I get one purpose-built? Or a new year bargain?

My gut feeling says 16GB RAM (DDR7); 500GB SSD with 2TB spinner; good
video card; i7 quad-core CPU.

Who knows better?

Ed


You can start by looking at benchmarks.

Not only is there i7 now, there are a few i9 models.

This is a list I made for somebody a few days ago. LGA2066.

¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬* ¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬* ¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬* RAMCH
PCIE¬* AVX512
i9-7980XE (24.75M cache, 18 Cores, 36 Threads, 2.60 GHz) $1,979¬* 4¬*¬*¬*¬* 44
i9-7960X (22M cache, 16 Cores, 32 Threads, 2.80 GHz)¬*¬*¬*¬* $1,684¬* 4¬*¬*¬*¬* 44
i9-7940X (19.25M cache, 14 Cores, 28 Threads, 3.10 GHz)¬* $1,387¬* 4¬*¬*¬*¬* 44
i9-7920X (16.5M cache, 12 Cores, 24 Threads, 2.90 GHz)¬*¬* $1,189¬* 4¬*¬*¬*¬* 44
i9-7900X (13.75M cache, 10 Cores, 20 Threads, 3.30 GHz)¬* $ 989¬*¬* 4¬*¬*¬*¬* 44
i7-7820X (11M cache, 8 Cores, 16 Threads, 3.60 GHz)¬*¬*¬*¬*¬* $ 589¬*¬* 4¬*¬*¬*¬* 28
i7-7800X (8.25M cache, 6 Cores, 12 Threads, 3.50 GHz)¬*¬*¬* $ 383¬*¬* 4
28¬*¬*¬* Yes
i7-7740X (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 4.30 GHz)¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬* $ 339¬*¬* 2
16¬*¬*¬* No
i5-7640X (6M cache, 4 Cores, 4 Threads, 4.00 GHz)¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬* $ 242¬*¬* 2¬*¬*¬*¬* 16

The bottom two processors, seem to be LGA1151 CPUs placed into an
LGA2066 package. Weird. (Intel price list follows...)

https://s21.q4cdn.com/600692695/file...Price_List.pdf


If you're content with one video card in the box, then the PCI Express
lane issue isn't too much of a deal. You can buy the 7820X, which
has "enough" cores by any gaming stretch of the imagination, enough
lanes to get by with, and is $589.

A sample motherboard of no particular pedigree ($263) is here.

http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList...x299-ud4_e.pdf

Page 10 of that manual, shows you what happens to RAM when you
run a 7740X and only half the DIMM slots work.

Page 11 of that manual, shows which PCI Express slots are disabled
when you use a 28 lane CPU. The slot next to the CPU is
fully functional. The second slot is functional, but half-wired.
The third slot is no-connect when a 28 lane CPU is installed.
This makes the 28 lane processor definitely and for sure
good enough for a single video card system, even if one
or two slots may be disabled by that choice.

If you run a more expensive CPU, with all 44 lanes, the clock speed
starts to drop, and any game with a "boss thread", the boss thread
runs a bit slower. That's why you look at the following two links, to
find the best combination of benches.

*******

Multi-threaded benchmark. Gives an idea how fast 7ZIP will compress files.

¬*¬* https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

Single-threaded benchmark. More indicative of "desktop speed feeling".

¬*¬* https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

*******

You also have to factor in OS support. Microsoft wants your new
purchase to only run Windows 10. Microsoft will disable Windows
Update for earlier OSes, if you use Kaby Lake or Coffee Lake and
so on. And I don't know if Microsoft includes Skylake-X in the
Coffee Lake club, or in the older Skylake club.

*******

For an LGA1151 system (still usable for gaming but not over
the top like the above stuff), you have things like this.

Coffee Lake - needs the newest LGA1151 with 300 series chipset.
¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬* Won't work in your older LGA1151 motherboard.
¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬* Dual channel memory, four memory slots.

https://ark.intel.com/products/12668...up-to-4_70-GHz


The price on these is a little jacked up at the moment in the store.
Turbo goes to 4.7GHz on one or two cores perhaps. (There are
turbo-tables kicking around with the details.)

i7-8700K (12M cache, 6 Cores, 12 Threads, 3.70 GHz)¬*¬* $359

The kicker is, the PCI Express lanes is roughly 16, plus the
lanes off the DMI bus and Southbridge. So this is
strictly a one-video-card system. The LGA2066 gives
a bit more room for a couple cards. But really, the
LGA2066 only satisfies every wish when a 44 lane processor
is being used, and then you take a hit on clock speed.

I would think in practical situations, the 8700K would be
a good match for the 7820X. It won't 7ZIP a bunch of
files quite as quickly, but it's likely to game OK.
It's hard to imagine a game with 12 threads where the
additional threads offer that much more speed. Would
a game run faster if it could fork 16 threads ? Hmmm.

For a high end video card, they only begin to drag a bit,
when driving a 4K monitor. If that's your intention,
then you'll "need to do a bit more research" :-)
As that will really challenge your research skills
(to buy something and not have regrets later).

I budget around one month of reading assignments,
when I haven't done a build in a while, to prepare
for stuff like this. Because the Intel marketing weenies
are involved, it's easy to get burned.

You might not know, but I'm not a big fan of SLI or Crossfire.
It might sell a lot of extra video cards. It might
make the power company happy, to hit you with a higher
bill. It makes the room warm in winter. But only the
most outrageous screen needs a box full (44 lane) system
to drive it. Competition gamers might use a
1920x1080 144Hz screen for example, with 2ms TN panel.
And then the one video card is plenty for the screen
dimension at least.

¬*¬* Paul


Also a lot of good reading at www.pcgamer.com

Rene

  #10  
Old January 2nd 18, 11:10 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,538
Default Gaming Computer

Paul wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
I want a box that can handle all the latest games; the ones that
demand everything of the best.
I've been looking around now for a few weeks, but the market is so
confusing.
Money is not much of an object; well, let's say 5k GBP max.

Should I get one purpose-built? Or a new year bargain?

My gut feeling says 16GB RAM (DDR7); 500GB SSD with 2TB spinner; good
video card; i7 quad-core CPU.

Who knows better?

Ed


You can start by looking at benchmarks.

Not only is there i7 now, there are a few i9 models.

This is a list I made for somebody a few days ago. LGA2066.

¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬* ¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬* ¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬* RAMCH
PCIE¬* AVX512
i9-7980XE (24.75M cache, 18 Cores, 36 Threads, 2.60 GHz) $1,979¬* 4¬*¬*¬*¬* 44
i9-7960X (22M cache, 16 Cores, 32 Threads, 2.80 GHz)¬*¬*¬*¬* $1,684¬* 4¬*¬*¬*¬* 44
i9-7940X (19.25M cache, 14 Cores, 28 Threads, 3.10 GHz)¬* $1,387¬* 4¬*¬*¬*¬* 44
i9-7920X (16.5M cache, 12 Cores, 24 Threads, 2.90 GHz)¬*¬* $1,189¬* 4¬*¬*¬*¬* 44
i9-7900X (13.75M cache, 10 Cores, 20 Threads, 3.30 GHz)¬* $ 989¬*¬* 4¬*¬*¬*¬* 44
i7-7820X (11M cache, 8 Cores, 16 Threads, 3.60 GHz)¬*¬*¬*¬*¬* $ 589¬*¬* 4¬*¬*¬*¬* 28
i7-7800X (8.25M cache, 6 Cores, 12 Threads, 3.50 GHz)¬*¬*¬* $ 383¬*¬* 4
28¬*¬*¬* Yes
i7-7740X (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 4.30 GHz)¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬* $ 339¬*¬* 2
16¬*¬*¬* No
i5-7640X (6M cache, 4 Cores, 4 Threads, 4.00 GHz)¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬* $ 242¬*¬* 2¬*¬*¬*¬* 16

The bottom two processors, seem to be LGA1151 CPUs placed into an
LGA2066 package. Weird. (Intel price list follows...)

https://s21.q4cdn.com/600692695/file...Price_List.pdf


If you're content with one video card in the box, then the PCI Express
lane issue isn't too much of a deal. You can buy the 7820X, which
has "enough" cores by any gaming stretch of the imagination, enough
lanes to get by with, and is $589.

A sample motherboard of no particular pedigree ($263) is here.

http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList...x299-ud4_e.pdf

Page 10 of that manual, shows you what happens to RAM when you
run a 7740X and only half the DIMM slots work.

Page 11 of that manual, shows which PCI Express slots are disabled
when you use a 28 lane CPU. The slot next to the CPU is
fully functional. The second slot is functional, but half-wired.
The third slot is no-connect when a 28 lane CPU is installed.
This makes the 28 lane processor definitely and for sure
good enough for a single video card system, even if one
or two slots may be disabled by that choice.

If you run a more expensive CPU, with all 44 lanes, the clock speed
starts to drop, and any game with a "boss thread", the boss thread
runs a bit slower. That's why you look at the following two links, to
find the best combination of benches.

*******

Multi-threaded benchmark. Gives an idea how fast 7ZIP will compress files.

¬*¬* https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

Single-threaded benchmark. More indicative of "desktop speed feeling".

¬*¬* https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

*******

You also have to factor in OS support. Microsoft wants your new
purchase to only run Windows 10. Microsoft will disable Windows
Update for earlier OSes, if you use Kaby Lake or Coffee Lake and
so on. And I don't know if Microsoft includes Skylake-X in the
Coffee Lake club, or in the older Skylake club.

*******

For an LGA1151 system (still usable for gaming but not over
the top like the above stuff), you have things like this.

Coffee Lake - needs the newest LGA1151 with 300 series chipset.
¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬* Won't work in your older LGA1151 motherboard.
¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬* Dual channel memory, four memory slots.

https://ark.intel.com/products/12668...up-to-4_70-GHz


The price on these is a little jacked up at the moment in the store.
Turbo goes to 4.7GHz on one or two cores perhaps. (There are
turbo-tables kicking around with the details.)

i7-8700K (12M cache, 6 Cores, 12 Threads, 3.70 GHz)¬*¬* $359

The kicker is, the PCI Express lanes is roughly 16, plus the
lanes off the DMI bus and Southbridge. So this is
strictly a one-video-card system. The LGA2066 gives
a bit more room for a couple cards. But really, the
LGA2066 only satisfies every wish when a 44 lane processor
is being used, and then you take a hit on clock speed.

I would think in practical situations, the 8700K would be
a good match for the 7820X. It won't 7ZIP a bunch of
files quite as quickly, but it's likely to game OK.
It's hard to imagine a game with 12 threads where the
additional threads offer that much more speed. Would
a game run faster if it could fork 16 threads ? Hmmm.

For a high end video card, they only begin to drag a bit,
when driving a 4K monitor. If that's your intention,
then you'll "need to do a bit more research" :-)
As that will really challenge your research skills
(to buy something and not have regrets later).

I budget around one month of reading assignments,
when I haven't done a build in a while, to prepare
for stuff like this. Because the Intel marketing weenies
are involved, it's easy to get burned.

You might not know, but I'm not a big fan of SLI or Crossfire.
It might sell a lot of extra video cards. It might
make the power company happy, to hit you with a higher
bill. It makes the room warm in winter. But only the
most outrageous screen needs a box full (44 lane) system
to drive it. Competition gamers might use a
1920x1080 144Hz screen for example, with 2ms TN panel.
And then the one video card is plenty for the screen
dimension at least.

¬*¬* Paul


The concept of two video cards in one box is new to me.
How would they operate? Or rather co-operate?
I can only think that one card would do the work, and simply use the
added RAM on the other card.

Ed
  #11  
Old January 2nd 18, 11:29 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 6,871
Default Gaming Computer

Ed Cryer wrote:

The concept of two video cards in one box is new to me.
How would they operate? Or rather co-operate?
I can only think that one card would do the work, and simply use the
added RAM on the other card.

Ed


Each video card keeps a copy of the same textures.
They can work on every second scan line, for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Link_Interface

And these guys started it as far as I know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voodoo2

Back in those days, your "regular" video card made
a VGA signal. And using short passthru cables, you cabled
the gamer cards in serially, after the regular video card.
The accelerators back then, would "lock" to the VGA video
signal, and "overlay" or remove a chunk of pixmap and
draw the game image on top of it. Apparently, with two
Voodoo cards, one would paint odd lines, the other paint
even lines. I own two of some version of those cards,
but never got mine to run properly. I only ever ran
one card at a time.

And there are other interleaving ideas besides doing it
at the scan line level.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_frame_rendering

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_CrossFireX

And that last article may be a bit dated, as there have
been attempts to fix micro-stutter.

Paul
  #12  
Old January 3rd 18, 02:37 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Diesel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 832
Default Gaming Computer

Paul news Jan 2018 23:29:47 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

Ed Cryer wrote:

The concept of two video cards in one box is new to me.
How would they operate? Or rather co-operate?
I can only think that one card would do the work, and simply use
the added RAM on the other card.

Ed


Each video card keeps a copy of the same textures.
They can work on every second scan line, for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Link_Interface

And these guys started it as far as I know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voodoo2


I had one of those paired with a diamond viper, back in the day.
It made need for speed hot pursuit look frakking sweet! Ran on an AMD
k6/2-350.


Another possible use for multiple gpu based systems is gpu/cpu based
crypto mining. but it's very hardware specific. As in, the mining app
has to support the cards you're using, or you can't do gpu mining.


--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
================================================== =
You can't achieve the impossible unless you attempt the absurd.
  #13  
Old January 3rd 18, 06:57 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul in Houston TX[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 820
Default Gaming Computer

Ed Cryer wrote:
I want a box that can handle all the latest games; the ones that demand everything of the
best.
I've been looking around now for a few weeks, but the market is so confusing.
Money is not much of an object; well, let's say 5k GBP max.

Should I get one purpose-built? Or a new year bargain?

My gut feeling says 16GB RAM (DDR7); 500GB SSD with 2TB spinner; good video card; i7
quad-core CPU.

Who knows better?

Ed


My old LGA 1366, 970, burned up due to over-clocking and I assembled this one
six months ago. The new one barely gets warm.
Currently Overclocked to 4.3 mhz.
Win 7 Pro. It will do everything that you want.
Total cost including monitor about $2,000.

MB: GA-Z270-GAMING 7, Socket 1151, 7 internal temp sensors,
2 external temp sensors that I stuck on the HDD,s,
8 fan headers - I am using 7 of them.

HDD's: are a pair on WD black 500 GB. A third 500 is for bi-weekly cloning and
stays unplugged until needed. Doubt if I will ever need more than 500 GB.
The MB has 2 slots for NVMe HDD's but the specs don't look that good vs. cost.

Vid: MSI Geforce GTX 1070 w/ 8 GB GDDR 5.
***NOTE: This vid card will do everything you need.
The 1080 is slightly better but not required. NO need for 2 vid cards.

CPU: i7-6700K, Sky Lake, LGA1151, unlocked,
***NOTE: due to a cabal bewteen Intel and Windows, the new Kaby Lake will
NOT support Win 7, so if you want to use Win 7 then the Intel CPU must be Sky Lake.
Supposedly there is a hack to get around this but I am not willing to try it.
Same for AMD Ryzen - Needs win 10.

RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX, 16 GB, 3600 mhz, has it's own cooling fan.

CPU cooler: Cooler Master Masterliquid PRO 120,
***NOTE: Use liquid cooling if you over-clock or seriously game.

PS: Seasonic Prime Titanium 80 Plus, 750 w.

Monitor: Samsung C24FG70FQN, Curved Screen, 144 hz,

Case: I reused my aluminum, 3/4 server size case.

  #14  
Old January 3rd 18, 06:41 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ed Cryer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,538
Default Gaming Computer

Ed Cryer wrote:
I want a box that can handle all the latest games; the ones that demand
everything of the best.
I've been looking around now for a few weeks, but the market is so
confusing.
Money is not much of an object; well, let's say 5k GBP max.

Should I get one purpose-built? Or a new year bargain?

My gut feeling says 16GB RAM (DDR7); 500GB SSD with 2TB spinner; good
video card; i7 quad-core CPU.

Who knows better?

Ed


This MSI Aegis Ti3 caught my eye;
https://goo.gl/DT5ASp
But then I found this; cheaper, but good enough, and with customer reviews;
https://goo.gl/swDdrJ

Ed

  #15  
Old January 3rd 18, 07:28 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,871
Default Gaming Computer

Ed Cryer wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:
I want a box that can handle all the latest games; the ones that
demand everything of the best.
I've been looking around now for a few weeks, but the market is so
confusing.
Money is not much of an object; well, let's say 5k GBP max.

Should I get one purpose-built? Or a new year bargain?

My gut feeling says 16GB RAM (DDR7); 500GB SSD with 2TB spinner; good
video card; i7 quad-core CPU.

Who knows better?

Ed


This MSI Aegis Ti3 caught my eye;
https://goo.gl/DT5ASp
But then I found this; cheaper, but good enough, and with customer reviews;
https://goo.gl/swDdrJ

Ed


These products definitely state "who you are"
and that "you've arrived".

*******

There are slightly more understated designs, like
this one with "less of the red lighting". This
one has a ThreadRipper, and an awesomely high price
when the box has only the "basics" in it! Lord knows
what the price would be if it was properly configured.

http://www.dell.com/en-ca/shop/cty/p.../daa51r3_f_s2e

The top ThreadRipper itself is only $950 USD.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16819113447

Paul
 




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