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Cloning a 2.5" IDE/PATA Laptop Hard drive



 
 
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  #31  
Old November 12th 17, 12:37 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default Cloning a 2.5" IDE/PATA Laptop Hard drive

wrote:
On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 03:06:11 -0500, Paul wrote:

For the EXE, double-click it, stick a blank floppy in the
floppy drive, and there should be a winimage screen...

https://s8.postimg.org/7xor5c1id/click_that_EXE.gif


Ok, I clicked on it on my lastop and I got that same view. There is no
floppy drive on that laptop though. I do have an external USB floppy
drive, I wonder if that will work? (First I got to find that thing).

Actually the only computer that has a floppy drive is my Windows 98
machine. I hope this EXE will run on Win98.

I could also plug a floppy drive into my XP desktop. It has the
connector for a floppy on the motherboard. Come to think of it, that
tower has space to install a floppy drive. I should just put one in
there permanently.

I can see one problem though. That tower dont have the mini-molex plug
that the floppy drive needs. Looks like another trip to ebay is needed.
(What is the correct name for that plug adaptor?)


How is that possible ?

You'd need a pretty new power supply, to not have the floppy connector.
Or maybe a very old one.

"Molex 4-pin LP4 & Floppy Drive 4-pin SP4 Female Adapter Converter Y Cable"

The closest I could find to a classical one, is a Molex that goes
to two SP4 connectors.

https://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-Go.../dp/B0002J1KW6

Normally, you'd buy a Molex that goes to another Molex plus a Floppy SP4.
And I'm not seeing any of those for sale.

*******

This site has pictures of power connectors if you need them.
Might take a while to load on your dialup connection.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psucon...onnectors.html

*******

I would check to make sure one of the wire looms isn't all wound
up in an elastic and hiding the floppy power connection.

Paul
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  #33  
Old November 12th 17, 02:14 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
No_Name
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Posts: 177
Default Cloning a 2.5" IDE/PATA Laptop Hard drive

On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 06:37:23 -0500, Paul wrote:


How is that possible ?

You'd need a pretty new power supply, to not have the floppy connector.
Or maybe a very old one.

"Molex 4-pin LP4 & Floppy Drive 4-pin SP4 Female Adapter Converter Y Cable"

The closest I could find to a classical one, is a Molex that goes
to two SP4 connectors.

https://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-Go.../dp/B0002J1KW6

Normally, you'd buy a Molex that goes to another Molex plus a Floppy SP4.
And I'm not seeing any of those for sale.

*******

This site has pictures of power connectors if you need them.
Might take a while to load on your dialup connection.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psucon...onnectors.html

*******

I would check to make sure one of the wire looms isn't all wound
up in an elastic and hiding the floppy power connection.

Paul


You're right. It was well hidden. That computer came with one of those
mini card readers. For SD, MMC, whatever they are all called....
I think that thing was put where a floppy drive would go. That thing had
4 slots, and was using 4 drive letters, sandwiched in between hard
drives and CD. That annoyed the **** out of me, so I unplugged it almost
as soon as I bought the computer. (The only mini cards I use are SD from
my camera, and I have a USB adaptor for that).

Anyhow, the power plug for a floppy drive was crammed above that stupid
mini card thing. Since I dont plan ot ever use that thing, I may remove
it and put my floppy drive in that slot.

By the way, it's been a long time since I installed a floppy drive. The
cable is straight on one end and has a set of twisted wires on the other
end. Am I correct that the twisted end goes to the floppy drive? (Or
will it work either way)?


  #34  
Old November 12th 17, 02:47 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
No_Name
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Posts: 177
Default Cloning a 2.5" IDE/PATA Laptop Hard drive

On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 12:42:19 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

If you have two connectors, you can almost certainly have four (E)IDE
drives: each IDE cable can support two devices, either master and slave
(determined by the position - usually absence or presence - of a link on
the drives themselves), or cable select. (Master/slave is the commonest
in my experience.)


There is only one IDE connector on the motherbd. One of them goes to the
CD drive. There are two SATA connectors too. Those go to the hard
drives. But I plan to clone two IDE drives by unplugging the SATA
drives. Thats why I cant plug in two IDE drives and a CD drive.

  #35  
Old November 12th 17, 09:06 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default Cloning a 2.5" IDE/PATA Laptop Hard drive

wrote:
On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 06:37:23 -0500, Paul wrote:

How is that possible ?

You'd need a pretty new power supply, to not have the floppy connector.
Or maybe a very old one.

"Molex 4-pin LP4 & Floppy Drive 4-pin SP4 Female Adapter Converter Y Cable"

The closest I could find to a classical one, is a Molex that goes
to two SP4 connectors.

https://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-Go.../dp/B0002J1KW6

Normally, you'd buy a Molex that goes to another Molex plus a Floppy SP4.
And I'm not seeing any of those for sale.

*******

This site has pictures of power connectors if you need them.
Might take a while to load on your dialup connection.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psucon...onnectors.html

*******

I would check to make sure one of the wire looms isn't all wound
up in an elastic and hiding the floppy power connection.

Paul


You're right. It was well hidden. That computer came with one of those
mini card readers. For SD, MMC, whatever they are all called....
I think that thing was put where a floppy drive would go. That thing had
4 slots, and was using 4 drive letters, sandwiched in between hard
drives and CD. That annoyed the **** out of me, so I unplugged it almost
as soon as I bought the computer. (The only mini cards I use are SD from
my camera, and I have a USB adaptor for that).

Anyhow, the power plug for a floppy drive was crammed above that stupid
mini card thing. Since I dont plan ot ever use that thing, I may remove
it and put my floppy drive in that slot.

By the way, it's been a long time since I installed a floppy drive. The
cable is straight on one end and has a set of twisted wires on the other
end. Am I correct that the twisted end goes to the floppy drive? (Or
will it work either way)?


The twisted end is the floppy end. The twist is presumably for
drive selection, but maybe Wikipedia has a reference on that.

X------------------X--twist--X
mobo FloppyA

The cable has a red mark indicating pin 1.

The drive casing has a triangle marking pin 1 stamped in the metal.
You need a strong work light, and your wits about you, not to miss
these "hints printed in metal". It was the same thing when I
got my first optical drive to install, I entirely missed the
beautiful legend printed in the metal, which identified
everything.

Some drive cables have the alignment tab, but it's
quite common for installers to get it wrong, and
rotate the cable 180 degrees. If the cable is rotated
on the floppy end, the LED on the floppy will come on,
the heads will stay selected. That's how you know it's
inserted wrong on the floppy end. There is no damage
to the floppy, if it's inserted wrong. I can't say what
happens if you insert cable wrong in FloppyA and right in
FloppyB, whether messing up one of the two connectors
in a dual floppy setup, has as happy a set of symptoms.

The motherboard end, the cable should have a "blocked pin".
Using a flashlight, examine the floppy connector on the
motherboard for a missing pin. The motherboard connector
should have a dot or triangle near the pin 1 end. The
alignment (Blocked) pin should prevent the motherboard
end from being inserted incorrectly. And sometimes the
motherboard end has an alignment tab, which makes it
real easy to figure out.

There are hints. You need a lot of light. The symbols
needed, are in the general area, so keep looking for hints.

But the floppy cable is just about the worst design
in the machine, in terms of keying. As far as I'm concerned
they could have used the alignment tabs that prevent
reversal, on all the connectors.

*******

Just because a machine has one IDE (for two HDD), and
two SATA cables (for two more HDD), doesn't mean you're
limited. There are SATA to IDE and IDE to SATA dongles
of various sorts. I own an IDE to SATA, for my IDE
motherboards, so I can connect a SATA drive to them.
I don't have a SATA to IDE drive one, it's missing
from my collection. I had a great brand picked out
and everything, but no retailer in Canada carried it.
Some of the good ones, went out of production seven
years ago. But, there are still a few for sale today.
There are a number of different designs - some are
even "bidirectional" designs. And it's the usual thing,
some fit the device end, some are designed to be plugged
into the motherboard end.

I was limited to shopping in Canada, by the Customs & Excise
scam the courier companies were carrying out. No company
wants to deal with Postal Mail shipments today. They all want
to use a courier. The courier wants to slap a brokerage
fee onto the shipping, making it uneconomical for small
shipments. Over the years, Canada has not raised the
"small dollar" customs-free feature, and it's possibly
still in the $20 range. If something arrives by Post
for example, with a stated dollar value less than $20,
there's no Customs & Excise stop for that. Canada Post
just delivers that to your door.

When I was a teenager, before Couriers, all the surplus
electronics companies I used to deal with, they shipped
Postal no problem at all. I used to do my own brokerage
at the Customs & Excise building myself. Canada Post would
send the parcel to Customs, a notice card would come in
the mail, I'd head down and deal with a clerk at the
counter. No scams back in those times... Actual honest
dealing. Unheard of.

Paul
  #36  
Old November 13th 17, 07:49 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
No_Name
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Posts: 177
Default Cloning a 2.5" IDE/PATA Laptop Hard drive

On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 20:22:04 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

Ah, when you said "I need both those connectors ..." I thought you meant
on the board. I now see you mean on the (single) cable.

Yes, I can get your inclination to use a floppy - and if that works,
fine. I think you can put Macrium or Acronis on bootable USB sticks, but
that motherboard probably won't boot from USB. (You can also get SATA
CD/DVD drives - in fact, I think they're commonest these days.) Or
temporarily connect both EIDE hard drives to another computer, and use
that to do the cloning.

Hang on though: You say "There is only one IDE connector on the
motherbd. One of them goes to the CD drive." One of them? You have the
CD drive and the HD connected to the motherboard - are they both on the
same cable, going to one connector on the mobo? If they're each
connected to a separate connector on the mobo, you can connect up to
four EIDE objects - you just need cables with three connectors on them.
(One for the mobo, two for the drives.)
--


I thought I wasclear when I said THERE IS ONLY ONE IDE CONNECTOR ON THE
MOTHERBOARD. That means I can use two devices.

Yes, this computer will boot from a USB stick. I have a few sticks with
older versions of Linux that I occasionally boot up.

BUt I'll stick with Norton Ghost and a floppy. Easiest solution, and
Acronis is said to be very complicated. I prefer simple!!!


  #37  
Old November 13th 17, 07:56 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
No_Name
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Posts: 177
Default Cloning a 2.5" IDE/PATA Laptop Hard drive

On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 15:06:33 -0500, Paul wrote:

The cable has a red mark indicating pin 1.

The drive casing has a triangle marking pin 1 stamped in the metal.
You need a strong work light, and your wits about you, not to miss
these "hints printed in metal". It was the same thing when I
got my first optical drive to install, I entirely missed the
beautiful legend printed in the metal, which identified
everything.

Some drive cables have the alignment tab, but it's
quite common for installers to get it wrong, and


Both the cable and drive and mothervboard have an alignment tab. They
can only be plugged in one way. However, I could put the twisted end on
the MB side. But now I know it belongs on the drive end. Thanks.

  #40  
Old November 13th 17, 11:11 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Rodney Pont[_5_]
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Posts: 95
Default Cloning a 2.5" IDE/PATA Laptop Hard drive

On Mon, 13 Nov 2017 09:17:49 +0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Both the cable and drive and mothervboard have an alignment tab. They
can only be plugged in one way. However, I could put the twisted end on
the MB side. But now I know it belongs on the drive end. Thanks.

The twist determines which is drive A: and which drive B:; I don't
remember for sure which connector is A and which B.


The connector on the end (the one after the twist) is for drive A: (I
tink).

--
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and built in 5 years;
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  #41  
Old November 13th 17, 04:03 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
No_Name
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Posts: 177
Default Cloning a 2.5" IDE/PATA Laptop Hard drive

On Mon, 13 Nov 2017 09:17:49 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message ,
writes:
[]
Both the cable and drive and mothervboard have an alignment tab. They
can only be plugged in one way. However, I could put the twisted end on
the MB side. But now I know it belongs on the drive end. Thanks.

The twist determines which is drive A: and which drive B:; I don't
remember for sure which connector is A and which B.


The only floppy cable I have is a single. Only one connector. (not
including the MOBO end). But I do remember the double ones on some of my
real old computers. I may even have another one in one of the old
computers in the garage tbat I still have. But I see no reason for two
floppy drives these days. Back in the DOS days I had a 3.5 and 5.25
drive on the same computer. I know I'll never use a 5.25 drive again.

Anyhow, this cable is for a single floppy drive and has that twist.

I kind of wonder if I used a cable without a twist, would the ONLY drive
become B: instead of A:?

Its funny how stuff like this fades from time. I worked on lots of the
old computers with single and double floppy drives, but that was 30
years ago.... THe last time I did anything with a floppy drive was maybe
10 years ago, when I replaced a bad drive, but that was just using the
existing cables.

One thing about floppy drives, they seem to go bad even if they are not
used. I think it's all because of dust getting in them. Computers are
notorious for sucking in dust. Every year I have to vacuum out mine. And
every 3 years or so I open the power supply and blow it out with an air
compressor, cuz them fans really get filthy.
I think they should make air filters foir them!

  #42  
Old November 13th 17, 06:45 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Ant[_2_]
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Posts: 554
Default Cloning a 2.5" IDE/PATA Laptop Hard drive

Some Guy wrote:
, while using improper usenet message composition style
by unnecessarily full-quoting, wrote:


I just bought Norton Ghost 2003 on ebay for $10 shipped.


Turns out that wasn't necessary. See my previous post.


Heh. I remember that product. Too bad Symantec killed off its
consumer Ghost products and bought PowerQuest (no more DriveImage).

Back in the 90s, a person could get any commercial software on
the web, but that is no longer the case.


Um, yes, that is still pretty much the case.


I couldn't imagine trying to do it, though, on a dial-up connection.


I did, but tedious.


Back in the late 1980's and early 1990's I had a dial-up connection to a
university server (Silicon Graphics machine). From there I would do FTP
to wustl and other servers to get software.


Heh. I used to do those too. My favorite was ftp.cdrom.com for
sharewares, playable demos, and DOOM addons!
--
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Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
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  #44  
Old November 13th 17, 08:30 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Ant[_2_]
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Posts: 554
Default Cloning a 2.5" IDE/PATA Laptop Hard drive

wrote:
....
I never connect at 56k. If I get 44K I'm lucky. Most of the time I get
around 30K. There is about one mile of old copper cable coming to my
house from the pedestal along the road, and the wire coming ot the
pedestal is probably also real old. When you live in a rural area, these
old wires were only meant to be used for voice telephone.


Better than me. Mine were awful at home and college 30 minuts away.
Connections were mostly at 26400. Lucky at 31200. It didn't matter where
and how good my modems were. Average was about 3kBs for compressed datas
in downloads.

Also, I couldn't get DSL. I could get IDSL, but that was like 144 Kbs
that costed over $100 IIRC back in the 2000s. And then Excite@Home with
Adelphia came among. It sucked too until it became DOCSIS complaint and
had a complete digital makeover. :/
--
Quote of the Week: "I go out of my way to avoid stepping on ants." --Terry McGovern, daughter of Senator George and Eleanor McGovern, subject of the book "Terry by her father"
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @
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/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
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  #45  
Old November 13th 17, 10:02 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Bill in Co
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Posts: 1,927
Default Cloning a 2.5" IDE/PATA Laptop Hard drive

wrote:
On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 20:22:04 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

Ah, when you said "I need both those connectors ..." I thought you meant
on the board. I now see you mean on the (single) cable.

Yes, I can get your inclination to use a floppy - and if that works,
fine. I think you can put Macrium or Acronis on bootable USB sticks, but
that motherboard probably won't boot from USB. (You can also get SATA
CD/DVD drives - in fact, I think they're commonest these days.) Or
temporarily connect both EIDE hard drives to another computer, and use
that to do the cloning.

Hang on though: You say "There is only one IDE connector on the
motherbd. One of them goes to the CD drive." One of them? You have the
CD drive and the HD connected to the motherboard - are they both on the
same cable, going to one connector on the mobo? If they're each
connected to a separate connector on the mobo, you can connect up to
four EIDE objects - you just need cables with three connectors on them.
(One for the mobo, two for the drives.)
--


I thought I wasclear when I said THERE IS ONLY ONE IDE CONNECTOR ON THE
MOTHERBOARD. That means I can use two devices.

Yes, this computer will boot from a USB stick. I have a few sticks with
older versions of Linux that I occasionally boot up.

But I'll stick with Norton Ghost and a floppy. Easiest solution, and
Acronis is said to be very complicated. I prefer simple!!!


I found Acronis (at least the older editions) to be the easiest solution,
and had some problems with Norton, so I guess our mileage varies. YMMV.
:-)


 




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