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#61
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Windows 7 SP1 Rollup Update
On Fri, 20 May 2016 20:45:25 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
A slightly higher proportion than of yore will be irritated because their W7/W8 computers were upgraded, but only if that stops things working Windows 10 gets all the publicity, but there's another potentially unwanted "upgrade". Many of my customers have reported that when they run a repair of Office 2013, it changes to Office 2016. In theory that's a good thing, as Office 2016 is slightly less annoying than 2013. But older add-ins that worked on Office 2013 may not work on Office 2016, and then the customer is forced to do without them or pay for upgrades of those add-ins. That's nice extra revenue for my employer, but it's unfair to the poor users who did not ask to get a new version of Office that won't support their existing add-ins. As far as I know, there's no easy way to go back. Even if you restore from backup, you still have the original problem that caused you to need a repair of Office 2013 in the first place. -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://BrownMath.com/ http://OakRoadSystems.com/ Shikata ga nai... |
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#62
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Windows 7 SP1 Rollup Update
Stan Brown wrote:
Windows 10 gets all the publicity, but there's another potentially unwanted "upgrade". Many of my customers have reported that when they run a repair of Office 2013, it changes to Office 2016. In theory that's a good thing, as Office 2016 is slightly less annoying than 2013. But older add-ins that worked on Office 2013 may not work on Office 2016, and then the customer is forced to do without them or pay for upgrades of those add-ins. Since I have never heard of a free upgrade of Office anything, you sure these customers have a paid version of Office 2016 (perhaps due to Office 365) and not a trial? Could've been some bundleware they installed with something else they intended to install. Did they actually have Office 365 and got the Office 2013 local apps that were available back then and now they let Office 365 upgrade to the newest versions (2016) of the local Office apps? The point of subscribing to Office 365 is that it will include the latest Office apps. |
#63
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Windows 7 SP1 Rollup Update
Stan Brown wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 13:49:24 -0400, Nil wrote: On 20 May 2016, Paul wrote in alt.comp.os.windows-8: It's easy to see by the feedback in this group, that with regard to MSFT and Windows Update, we've slipped to level (3). Quite right. Microsoft has lately given us MANY reasons to distrust them, and more are coming regularly. It has been a very long time since they have given us any reason to trust them, and they don't seem at all interested in doing so. I don't understand why a company whose business is to sell to consumers would go so far out of their way to alienate those very customers, but that's just what they are doing. It might result in higher "numbers" in the short run, no matter how contrived and misleading, but it can only backfire in the long run. And they keep ramping it up[. Now if you simply close the box inviting an update to Windows 10, Microsoft interprets that the same as clicking OK. And that box itself pops up after a Recommended update is installed. This was reported in RISKS Digest, reposted from "Windows 10 goes full malware"[1]: Microsoft is adding another chapter to the long[2] and sordid[3] story of its latest OS. As reported[4] by Windows Magazine, closing the upgrade permission window by clicking the familiar red x results in "approval" of the installation. Per this[5] Microsoft support document, "If you click on OK or on the red ?X?, you're all set for the upgrade and there is nothing further to do." [1] https://slashdot.org/submission/5878...-10-goes-full- malware [2] http://www.networkworld.com/article/2956574/microsoft- subnet/windows-10-privacy-spyware-settings-user-agreement.html [3] https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...30/windows-10- automatic-download-windows-7-8-pc-computers [4] http://archive.is/o2MFC [5] https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3095675 I haven't looked at this last one because it requires Javascript. There's no good reason to require Javascript to view static content, so this must be Microsoft doing something ELSE bad. That seems correct to what the dialog says, which says "scheduled" (past tense). Since the upgrade has already been scheduled, you have to take ACTION (not inaction) to unschedule the upgrade. Clicking OK or exiting the dialog using the X titlebar icon means you choose inaction. This is typical of foistware (opted in by default) bundled in with an installer that uses negatively worded prompts to opt out of the foistware. You have to carefully read the option to understand if unchecking or checking a box will result in not installing the foistware. First they opt-in, by default, their foistware so you have to *act* to opt out. Then they use negatively worded options so you have to, say, *un*check a box to opt-out. Microsoft took a clue from anti-virus vendors that long ago moved to a subscriptionware-based scheme. Microsoft is taking another clue from foistware on tricking users on how to opt-out. You would think by now that users would realize that Microsoft has pushed out bad updates so users should NEVER have Automatic Updates configured to "automatically download and install". Some boobs just never learn or choose to remain ignorant. The stories about hospitals getting nailed shows that boobs are working even in IT departments. If a nurse trying to power up gear for a patient sees a Windows 10 get started (or completed) then the blame is on their IT department (or equipment supplier) for installing the updates without review or authorization or improper configuration of the equipment. Those in charge of the equipment are also responsible for preventing infection by ALL malware - and the Windows 10 upgrade has long qualified as malware since the updates commit an action or effect not wanted by the afflicted users. Too bad the anti-virus vendors haven't gotten off their lazy asses to categorize the non-Windows 7/8 updates on Windows 7/8 (i.e., all updates that have only to do with migration to Windows 10) as malware. The OS author is no longer trustworthy so their updates should be equally treated as untrustworthy. |
#64
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Windows 7 SP1 Rollup Update
Stan Brown wrote on 05/21/2016 6:57 AM:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 20:45:25 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: A slightly higher proportion than of yore will be irritated because their W7/W8 computers were upgraded, but only if that stops things working Windows 10 gets all the publicity, but there's another potentially unwanted "upgrade". Many of my customers have reported that when they run a repair of Office 2013, it changes to Office 2016. In theory that's a good thing, as Office 2016 is slightly less annoying than 2013. But older add-ins that worked on Office 2013 may not work on Office 2016, and then the customer is forced to do without them or pay for upgrades of those add-ins. That's nice extra revenue for my employer, but it's unfair to the poor users who did not ask to get a new version of Office that won't support their existing add-ins. As far as I know, there's no easy way to go back. Even if you restore from backup, you still have the original problem that caused you to need a repair of Office 2013 in the first place. If you've(or they) installed subscription ware i.e. Office 365 then by purchasing that product they've also, for an active subscription, purchased and agreed to receiving the latest version available. I.e. They did ask to be upgraded to the latest version. If the Office 2013 was the desktop client installed version then the only way to upgrade to 2016 is by user, IT, or another entity with access to the device intervention....a repair of Office 2013 desktop won't upgrade to 2016. Maybe those customers aren't aware what someone sold them. -- ...winston msft mvp windows experience |
#65
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Windows 7 SP1 Rollup Update
On Sat, 21 May 2016 10:00:24 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
Since I have never heard of a free upgrade of Office anything, you sure these customers have a paid version of Office 2016 (perhaps due to Office 365) and not a trial? Could've been some bundleware they installed with something else they intended to install. Did they actually have Office 365 and got the Office 2013 local apps that were available back then and now they let Office 365 upgrade to the newest versions (2016) of the local Office apps? The point of subscribing to Office 365 is that it will include the latest Office apps. What you say is possible, but not likely, I think. These were corporate customers, not individual home users. I didn't see their process, because they called only after the damage was done, but I and my colleagues have taken enough trouble reports of this class that I think the phenomenon must be real. -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://BrownMath.com/ http://OakRoadSystems.com/ Shikata ga nai... |
#66
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Windows 7 SP1 Rollup Update
On Sat, 21 May 2016 10:20:29 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
Too bad the anti-virus vendors haven't gotten off their lazy asses to categorize the non-Windows 7/8 updates on Windows 7/8 (i.e., all updates that have only to do with migration to Windows 10) as malware. The OS author is no longer trustworthy so their updates should be equally treated as untrustworthy. I agree with you, but I think they are afraid of Microsoft's deep pockets. Even though a suit by Microsoft against an anti-virus vendor who called GWX and Windows 10 would probably fail, the legal fees could bankrupt the smaller company. -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://BrownMath.com/ http://OakRoadSystems.com/ Shikata ga nai... |
#67
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Windows 7 SP1 Rollup Update
Stan Brown wrote on 05/21/2016 9:53 PM:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 10:00:24 -0500, VanguardLH wrote: Since I have never heard of a free upgrade of Office anything, you sure these customers have a paid version of Office 2016 (perhaps due to Office 365) and not a trial? Could've been some bundleware they installed with something else they intended to install. Did they actually have Office 365 and got the Office 2013 local apps that were available back then and now they let Office 365 upgrade to the newest versions (2016) of the local Office apps? The point of subscribing to Office 365 is that it will include the latest Office apps. What you say is possible, but not likely, I think. These were corporate customers, not individual home users. I didn't see their process, because they called only after the damage was done, but I and my colleagues have taken enough trouble reports of this class that I think the phenomenon must be real. No other way for it to happen (i.e. completely likely) Office 2013 doesn't have the code to do it, WU doesn't deploy an upgrade update for Office, 2016 is available as stand-alone in full version ware(Msi) or as part of Office 365(Click to Run) The only routes - Office 365 (2013) was installed and updated to Office 2016 per the subscription agreement - Office 2013 MSI was installed and and end-user/IT admin installed 2016 CTR side by side - Office 2013 MSI was installed and Office 2016 MSI was purchased and installed. -- ...winston msft mvp windows experience |
#68
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Windows 7 SP1 Rollup Update
| Too bad the anti-virus vendors haven't gotten off their lazy asses to
| categorize the non-Windows 7/8 updates on Windows 7/8 (i.e., all updates | that have only to do with migration to Windows 10) as malware. | I agree with you, but I think they are afraid of Microsoft's deep | pockets. Even though a suit by Microsoft against an anti-virus vendor | who called GWX and Windows 10 would probably fail, the legal fees | could bankrupt the smaller company. | That, and the fact that most people would think the AV company was nuts. Even most people here don't regard the telemetry updates as spyware. And most people here are still allowing Windows Update. People have become so passive that only a complete, overnight transformation of their computer, into something they don't recognize, warrants their attention. And that's among the tech-literate crowd. The discussion here sounds like what one hears with Facebook changes: "Facebook had better be careful because if I ever get 10 times more angry than I am now... well... I might just stop using the Facebook account that I don't pay for!" (Of course they won't, because their whole life revolves around Facebook contacts, and Emperor Zuck knows that.) Most of the general public would probably just be very confused by AV software calling Windows Update malware. |
#69
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Windows 7 SP1 Rollup Update
Paul wrote on 05/19/2016 2:51 AM:
. . .winston wrote: Probably a good idea to install IE11g after the Rollup - sorry, should have mentioned that earlier https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/down...7-details.aspx For the slowness with Win7 WU....two updates have proven to be helpful, if not installed. Windows Update Client for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2: March 2016 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3138612 Security update for Windows Kernel-Mode Drivers: May 10, 2016 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3153199 Install, in the order shown above(IE11, WU Client, Kernel update). I tried IE11, plus the Cumulative Update, and the delay is 84 minutes. The point is, the rollup by itself, isn't making Windows 7 reinstallation any easier. There is still an 84 minute delay. What's the difference between rollup 84 minute delay Review a smaller number of updates versus 84 minute delay review all updates It's still freaking annoying. The installation time is shorter - the rollup method is faster than slogging through updates one at a time. But the 84 minute delay fouls up any idea of a workflow for anyone doing this. Paul W7 Pro SP1 clean install, , MBR, blank 500 GB SATA drive, 50 Mbps internet connection, i7-4770 CPU Asus Sabertooth Z87 mobo Install Win7 Sp1 Logon, one account created local admin user Disable Windows Update (Never Check) Installed MSE and updated defs Stopped the Windows Update Service Install the March 2016 Windows Update client https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3138612 Install the April Servicing Stack Update (pre-req for the Rollup below) https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3020369 Install the April and May 2016 Windows 7 Rollup https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3125574 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3156417 Installed IE11 Installed the following KB3153199 KB3145739 KB3078601 KB3087039 KB3109094 Disabled the Device Installation settings for the pc('Never install driver software from Windows Update) Enabled the Windows Update Service Ran Windows Update manually - waited for WU to finish finding the balance of updates (37 minutes) Install the balance of Recommended and Optional updates (except Win10 upgrade apps - 3035583, 2952664 and 3123862 and ignored[which was a surprise with devices hardware updates disabled - the Intel Graphic adapter] (52 minutes) -- ...winston msft mvp windows experience |
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