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Windows 7 SP1 Rollup Update



 
 
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  #61  
Old May 21st 16, 11:57 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Stan Brown
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Posts: 2,904
Default Windows 7 SP1 Rollup Update

On Fri, 20 May 2016 20:45:25 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
A slightly
higher proportion than of yore will be irritated because their W7/W8
computers were upgraded, but only if that stops things working


Windows 10 gets all the publicity, but there's another potentially
unwanted "upgrade". Many of my customers have reported that when they
run a repair of Office 2013, it changes to Office 2016. In theory
that's a good thing, as Office 2016 is slightly less annoying than
2013. But older add-ins that worked on Office 2013 may not work on
Office 2016, and then the customer is forced to do without them or
pay for upgrades of those add-ins.

That's nice extra revenue for my employer, but it's unfair to the
poor users who did not ask to get a new version of Office that won't
support their existing add-ins. As far as I know, there's no easy way
to go back. Even if you restore from backup, you still have the
original problem that caused you to need a repair of Office 2013 in
the first place.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...
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  #62  
Old May 21st 16, 04:00 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Posts: 10,881
Default Windows 7 SP1 Rollup Update

Stan Brown wrote:

Windows 10 gets all the publicity, but there's another potentially
unwanted "upgrade". Many of my customers have reported that when they
run a repair of Office 2013, it changes to Office 2016. In theory
that's a good thing, as Office 2016 is slightly less annoying than
2013. But older add-ins that worked on Office 2013 may not work on
Office 2016, and then the customer is forced to do without them or
pay for upgrades of those add-ins.


Since I have never heard of a free upgrade of Office anything, you sure
these customers have a paid version of Office 2016 (perhaps due to
Office 365) and not a trial? Could've been some bundleware they
installed with something else they intended to install. Did they
actually have Office 365 and got the Office 2013 local apps that were
available back then and now they let Office 365 upgrade to the newest
versions (2016) of the local Office apps? The point of subscribing to
Office 365 is that it will include the latest Office apps.
  #63  
Old May 21st 16, 04:20 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Windows 7 SP1 Rollup Update

Stan Brown wrote:

On Fri, 20 May 2016 13:49:24 -0400, Nil wrote:
On 20 May 2016, Paul wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

It's easy to see by the feedback in this
group, that with regard to MSFT and Windows Update,
we've slipped to level (3).


Quite right. Microsoft has lately given us MANY reasons to distrust
them, and more are coming regularly. It has been a very long time since
they have given us any reason to trust them, and they don't seem at all
interested in doing so.

I don't understand why a company whose business is to sell to consumers
would go so far out of their way to alienate those very customers, but
that's just what they are doing. It might result in higher "numbers" in
the short run, no matter how contrived and misleading, but it can only
backfire in the long run.


And they keep ramping it up[. Now if you simply close the box
inviting an update to Windows 10, Microsoft interprets that the same
as clicking OK. And that box itself pops up after a Recommended
update is installed.

This was reported in RISKS Digest, reposted from "Windows 10 goes
full malware"[1]: Microsoft is adding another chapter to the long[2]
and sordid[3] story of its latest OS. As reported[4] by Windows
Magazine, closing the upgrade permission window by clicking the
familiar red x results in "approval" of the installation. Per this[5]
Microsoft support document, "If you click on OK or on the red ?X?,
you're all set for the upgrade and there is nothing further to do."

[1] https://slashdot.org/submission/5878...-10-goes-full-
malware

[2] http://www.networkworld.com/article/2956574/microsoft-
subnet/windows-10-privacy-spyware-settings-user-agreement.html

[3] https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...30/windows-10-
automatic-download-windows-7-8-pc-computers

[4] http://archive.is/o2MFC

[5] https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3095675
I haven't looked at this last one because it requires Javascript.
There's no good reason to require Javascript to view static content,
so this must be Microsoft doing something ELSE bad.


That seems correct to what the dialog says, which says "scheduled" (past
tense). Since the upgrade has already been scheduled, you have to take
ACTION (not inaction) to unschedule the upgrade. Clicking OK or exiting
the dialog using the X titlebar icon means you choose inaction.

This is typical of foistware (opted in by default) bundled in with an
installer that uses negatively worded prompts to opt out of the
foistware. You have to carefully read the option to understand if
unchecking or checking a box will result in not installing the
foistware. First they opt-in, by default, their foistware so you have
to *act* to opt out. Then they use negatively worded options so you
have to, say, *un*check a box to opt-out.

Microsoft took a clue from anti-virus vendors that long ago moved to a
subscriptionware-based scheme. Microsoft is taking another clue from
foistware on tricking users on how to opt-out.

You would think by now that users would realize that Microsoft has
pushed out bad updates so users should NEVER have Automatic Updates
configured to "automatically download and install". Some boobs just
never learn or choose to remain ignorant. The stories about hospitals
getting nailed shows that boobs are working even in IT departments. If
a nurse trying to power up gear for a patient sees a Windows 10 get
started (or completed) then the blame is on their IT department (or
equipment supplier) for installing the updates without review or
authorization or improper configuration of the equipment. Those in
charge of the equipment are also responsible for preventing infection by
ALL malware - and the Windows 10 upgrade has long qualified as malware
since the updates commit an action or effect not wanted by the afflicted
users.

Too bad the anti-virus vendors haven't gotten off their lazy asses to
categorize the non-Windows 7/8 updates on Windows 7/8 (i.e., all updates
that have only to do with migration to Windows 10) as malware. The OS
author is no longer trustworthy so their updates should be equally
treated as untrustworthy.
  #64  
Old May 21st 16, 06:55 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8
. . .winston[_3_]
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Posts: 335
Default Windows 7 SP1 Rollup Update

Stan Brown wrote on 05/21/2016 6:57 AM:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 20:45:25 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
A slightly
higher proportion than of yore will be irritated because their W7/W8
computers were upgraded, but only if that stops things working


Windows 10 gets all the publicity, but there's another potentially
unwanted "upgrade". Many of my customers have reported that when they
run a repair of Office 2013, it changes to Office 2016. In theory
that's a good thing, as Office 2016 is slightly less annoying than
2013. But older add-ins that worked on Office 2013 may not work on
Office 2016, and then the customer is forced to do without them or
pay for upgrades of those add-ins.

That's nice extra revenue for my employer, but it's unfair to the
poor users who did not ask to get a new version of Office that won't
support their existing add-ins. As far as I know, there's no easy way
to go back. Even if you restore from backup, you still have the
original problem that caused you to need a repair of Office 2013 in
the first place.

If you've(or they) installed subscription ware i.e. Office 365 then by
purchasing that product they've also, for an active subscription,
purchased and agreed to receiving the latest version available.

I.e. They did ask to be upgraded to the latest version.


If the Office 2013 was the desktop client installed version then the
only way to upgrade to 2016 is by user, IT, or another entity with
access to the device intervention....a repair of Office 2013 desktop
won't upgrade to 2016.

Maybe those customers aren't aware what someone sold them.



--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience
  #65  
Old May 22nd 16, 02:53 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Stan Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,904
Default Windows 7 SP1 Rollup Update

On Sat, 21 May 2016 10:00:24 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
Since I have never heard of a free upgrade of Office anything, you sure
these customers have a paid version of Office 2016 (perhaps due to
Office 365) and not a trial? Could've been some bundleware they
installed with something else they intended to install. Did they
actually have Office 365 and got the Office 2013 local apps that were
available back then and now they let Office 365 upgrade to the newest
versions (2016) of the local Office apps? The point of subscribing to
Office 365 is that it will include the latest Office apps.


What you say is possible, but not likely, I think. These were
corporate customers, not individual home users. I didn't see their
process, because they called only after the damage was done, but I
and my colleagues have taken enough trouble reports of this class
that I think the phenomenon must be real.


--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...
  #66  
Old May 22nd 16, 02:55 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Stan Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,904
Default Windows 7 SP1 Rollup Update

On Sat, 21 May 2016 10:20:29 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
Too bad the anti-virus vendors haven't gotten off their lazy asses to
categorize the non-Windows 7/8 updates on Windows 7/8 (i.e., all updates
that have only to do with migration to Windows 10) as malware. The OS
author is no longer trustworthy so their updates should be equally
treated as untrustworthy.


I agree with you, but I think they are afraid of Microsoft's deep
pockets. Even though a suit by Microsoft against an anti-virus vendor
who called GWX and Windows 10 would probably fail, the legal fees
could bankrupt the smaller company.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...
  #67  
Old May 22nd 16, 06:01 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8
. . .winston[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 335
Default Windows 7 SP1 Rollup Update

Stan Brown wrote on 05/21/2016 9:53 PM:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 10:00:24 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
Since I have never heard of a free upgrade of Office anything, you sure
these customers have a paid version of Office 2016 (perhaps due to
Office 365) and not a trial? Could've been some bundleware they
installed with something else they intended to install. Did they
actually have Office 365 and got the Office 2013 local apps that were
available back then and now they let Office 365 upgrade to the newest
versions (2016) of the local Office apps? The point of subscribing to
Office 365 is that it will include the latest Office apps.


What you say is possible, but not likely, I think. These were
corporate customers, not individual home users. I didn't see their
process, because they called only after the damage was done, but I
and my colleagues have taken enough trouble reports of this class
that I think the phenomenon must be real.



No other way for it to happen (i.e. completely likely)

Office 2013 doesn't have the code to do it, WU doesn't deploy an upgrade
update for Office, 2016 is available as stand-alone in full version
ware(Msi) or as part of Office 365(Click to Run)

The only routes
- Office 365 (2013) was installed and updated to Office 2016 per the
subscription agreement
- Office 2013 MSI was installed and and end-user/IT admin installed
2016 CTR side by side
- Office 2013 MSI was installed and Office 2016 MSI was purchased and
installed.



--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience
  #68  
Old May 22nd 16, 01:18 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
Default Windows 7 SP1 Rollup Update

| Too bad the anti-virus vendors haven't gotten off their lazy asses to
| categorize the non-Windows 7/8 updates on Windows 7/8 (i.e., all updates
| that have only to do with migration to Windows 10) as malware.

| I agree with you, but I think they are afraid of Microsoft's deep
| pockets. Even though a suit by Microsoft against an anti-virus vendor
| who called GWX and Windows 10 would probably fail, the legal fees
| could bankrupt the smaller company.
|

That, and the fact that most people would think
the AV company was nuts. Even most people here
don't regard the telemetry updates as spyware. And
most people here are still allowing Windows Update.
People have become so passive that only a complete,
overnight transformation of their computer, into
something they don't recognize, warrants their
attention. And that's among the tech-literate crowd.

The discussion here sounds like what one hears with
Facebook changes: "Facebook had better be careful
because if I ever get 10 times more angry than I am
now... well... I might just stop using the Facebook
account that I don't pay for!" (Of course they won't,
because their whole life revolves around Facebook
contacts, and Emperor Zuck knows that.)

Most of the general public would probably just be very
confused by AV software calling Windows Update
malware.


  #69  
Old May 25th 16, 07:13 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-8
. . .winston[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 335
Default Windows 7 SP1 Rollup Update

Paul wrote on 05/19/2016 2:51 AM:
. . .winston wrote:

Probably a good idea to install IE11g after the Rollup
- sorry, should have mentioned that earlier
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/down...7-details.aspx



For the slowness with Win7 WU....two updates have proven to be
helpful, if not installed.

Windows Update Client for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2: March
2016
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3138612

Security update for Windows Kernel-Mode Drivers: May 10, 2016
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3153199


Install, in the order shown above(IE11, WU Client, Kernel update).


I tried IE11, plus the Cumulative Update, and the
delay is 84 minutes.

The point is, the rollup by itself, isn't making
Windows 7 reinstallation any easier. There is still
an 84 minute delay.

What's the difference between

rollup
84 minute delay
Review a smaller number of updates

versus

84 minute delay
review all updates

It's still freaking annoying. The installation time is
shorter - the rollup method is faster than slogging
through updates one at a time. But the 84 minute delay
fouls up any idea of a workflow for anyone doing this.


Paul


W7 Pro SP1 clean install, , MBR, blank 500 GB SATA drive, 50 Mbps
internet connection, i7-4770 CPU Asus Sabertooth Z87 mobo

Install Win7 Sp1
Logon, one account created local admin user
Disable Windows Update (Never Check)
Installed MSE and updated defs
Stopped the Windows Update Service
Install the March 2016 Windows Update client
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3138612
Install the April Servicing Stack Update (pre-req for the Rollup below)
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3020369
Install the April and May 2016 Windows 7 Rollup
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3125574
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3156417
Installed IE11
Installed the following
KB3153199
KB3145739
KB3078601
KB3087039
KB3109094
Disabled the Device Installation settings for the pc('Never install
driver software from Windows Update)

Enabled the Windows Update Service
Ran Windows Update manually
- waited for WU to finish finding the balance of updates (37 minutes)

Install the balance of Recommended and Optional updates (except Win10
upgrade apps - 3035583, 2952664 and 3123862 and ignored[which was a
surprise with devices hardware updates disabled - the Intel Graphic
adapter] (52 minutes)


--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience
 




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