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OT Xbox & Live
Doesn't seem to be any "populated" Xbox newsgroups anymore so asking and complaining here. Don't like that, to late to complain Just got my first Xbox, never touched one before. Used, came with numerous controllers and games etc. It is a "Xbox 360 S" model. Everything works as expected. Disappointment #1 - needed a hard disk to play original Xbox games. Disappointment #2 - needed a "special" hard disk costs way more than normal, either that or try to hack specific hard disk models. Disappointment #3 - even with hard disk installed (thankfully trivially done) more than 1/2 the original Xbox games I've tried don't work. Disappointment #4 - can't install original games to the hard disk Disappointment #5 - can't seem to watch any TV, movies or listen to music without paying, e.g. there's no real free any of that? So seems to me I might as well disconnect the network cable from it as it's just a pipeline to give them money with nothing in return. I couldn't give a hoot about Xbox Live's social features or store. Sorry MS but $30 for season 3 of Dark Matter (which isn't even over yet I think) is exploitation when packaging and delivery costs are so negligent!!! Torrent is faster, cheaper and easier plus I can keep a copy to watch at any time I like in the future. Make you pricing favourable to that and I'll puchase but I refuse to be exploited so someone else can make millions. I knew there as a reason I preferred Playstations besides more broad software titles |
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#2
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OT Xbox & Live
pjp wrote:
Doesn't seem to be any "populated" Xbox newsgroups anymore so asking and complaining here. Don't like that, to late to complain Just got my first Xbox, never touched one before. Used, came with numerous controllers and games etc. It is a "Xbox 360 S" model. Everything works as expected. Disappointment #1 - needed a hard disk to play original Xbox games. Disappointment #2 - needed a "special" hard disk costs way more than normal, either that or try to hack specific hard disk models. Disappointment #3 - even with hard disk installed (thankfully trivially done) more than 1/2 the original Xbox games I've tried don't work. Disappointment #4 - can't install original games to the hard disk Disappointment #5 - can't seem to watch any TV, movies or listen to music without paying, e.g. there's no real free any of that? So seems to me I might as well disconnect the network cable from it as it's just a pipeline to give them money with nothing in return. I couldn't give a hoot about Xbox Live's social features or store. Sorry MS but $30 for season 3 of Dark Matter (which isn't even over yet I think) is exploitation when packaging and delivery costs are so negligent!!! Torrent is faster, cheaper and easier plus I can keep a copy to watch at any time I like in the future. Make you pricing favourable to that and I'll puchase but I refuse to be exploited so someone else can make millions. I knew there as a reason I preferred Playstations besides more broad software titles As a hardware guy, I can state with some authority that: "A piece of hardware, without software/content, is just a boat anchor" I bought a Tv tuner card about a week ago. OEM version. Figured the "missing IR Blaster" was the "Retail" component. Well, it was worse than that. the application to view video was missing. I fire up Win7 Pro, try to use WMC, *no guide data*. Internet sez to type in random zipcode values, to try to get guide data. It appears Microsoft switched guide data suppliers. While AFAIK, the Microsoft server distributes the guide data, it keeps dying. And apparently, without Guide Data, WMC is too stupid to just do a channel scan and identify working channels. All I wanted to do as a first step, is prove the card wasn't broken, in a sort enough time so my ability to return it was not compromised. I eventually got the little ****er running on Linux. First I did some mumbo-jumbo, card not detected. *No Error Message*. I had installed a .fw file a day before. The .fw file got erased somehow (no, I didn't erase it). Re-installed .fw file (which comes from a different place than the software!), ran w_scan from the w-scan package, and voila, channels detected. Loaded up VLC, bam, live video. (VLC makes you enter the frequency of the channel on the TV set to view.) So yet another lesson learned by me, about how crappy the TV Tuner industry is, and what boat anchors these products are, when the CD (in the box!), has nothing useful on it. A virtual Frisbee. I think the CD is put in the box, so it will be pictured on Newegg, and you'll *assume* there is software. Who knows how long I'll have to wait for guide data. Apparently the "weaning" technique Microsoft is using, turning the Guide Data on and off, has caused some users to pony up $25/year for third party Guide Data. So their strategy is sadly working. Paul |
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OT Xbox & Live
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#5
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OT Xbox & Live
In article , lid says...
pjp wrote: In article , lid says... pjp wrote: Doesn't seem to be any "populated" Xbox newsgroups anymore so asking and complaining here. Don't like that, to late to complain Just got my first Xbox, never touched one before. Used, came with numerous controllers and games etc. It is a "Xbox 360 S" model. Everything works as expected. Disappointment #1 - needed a hard disk to play original Xbox games. Disappointment #2 - needed a "special" hard disk costs way more than normal, either that or try to hack specific hard disk models. Disappointment #3 - even with hard disk installed (thankfully trivially done) more than 1/2 the original Xbox games I've tried don't work. Disappointment #4 - can't install original games to the hard disk Disappointment #5 - can't seem to watch any TV, movies or listen to music without paying, e.g. there's no real free any of that? So seems to me I might as well disconnect the network cable from it as it's just a pipeline to give them money with nothing in return. I couldn't give a hoot about Xbox Live's social features or store. Sorry MS but $30 for season 3 of Dark Matter (which isn't even over yet I think) is exploitation when packaging and delivery costs are so negligent!!! Torrent is faster, cheaper and easier plus I can keep a copy to watch at any time I like in the future. Make you pricing favourable to that and I'll puchase but I refuse to be exploited so someone else can make millions. I knew there as a reason I preferred Playstations besides more broad software titles As a hardware guy, I can state with some authority that: "A piece of hardware, without software/content, is just a boat anchor" I bought a Tv tuner card about a week ago. OEM version. Figured the "missing IR Blaster" was the "Retail" component. Well, it was worse than that. the application to view video was missing. I fire up Win7 Pro, try to use WMC, *no guide data*. Internet sez to type in random zipcode values, to try to get guide data. It appears Microsoft switched guide data suppliers. While AFAIK, the Microsoft server distributes the guide data, it keeps dying. You don't mention country you're in. Canada, USA or ? I know nothing about DTC and until I had problems nothing about NTSC either I assume if I ever want to record from older equipment uses compsite video I'll first have to run it thru a modulator to get an ATSC analog channel 3 and rescan so it finds old Channel 3 and proceed from there. Both WinTV and WMC seem to discard channels it knows even when you tell it to when simply rescanning for "new" channels. That's seem to be chancy once/if everything is working. I run mine off an attenna in my attic with a 30Db booster attached to it. Mind you I'm 100Km from stations so I always figured I'm kinda lucky to get anything. Only reason I believe it works so well is because I'm on high ground, people in valley below get nada Occasionally one of the channels drops out for a bit. Think it's from airport lies almost inline to station and something they startup causes it under right weather conditions. I use a one into four splitter to feed three digital tuners for analog tvs plus this usb tv tuner card. I don't know what to tell you about what to try. The hacks I mentioned don't seem all that pertinenet to you. My model is a Happauge 950Q btw. |
#6
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OT Xbox & Live (now video capture)
In message , pjp
writes: [] You don't mention country you're in. Canada, USA or ? I know nothing about DTC and until I had problems nothing about NTSC either I assume if I ever want to record from older equipment uses compsite video I'll first have to run it thru a modulator to get an ATSC analog channel 3 and rescan so it finds old Channel 3 and proceed from there. Both WinTV and WMC seem to discard channels it knows even when you tell it to when simply rescanning for "new" channels. That's seem to be chancy once/if everything is working. [] Older TV cards/sticks that _have_ an analogue tuner _usually_ (not always) have a baseband input socket on them (maybe less so in the case of the sticks). More modern ones, from the digital age, often don't have any analogue circuitry at all (well, baseband video; obviously the tuner is analogue in some sense), so even using a modulator won't help. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf To give you some indication, opinion polls suggest that people who passionately hate or love country [music] are utterly indifferent to Marmite. - Eddie Mair, Radio Times 11-17 February 2012 |
#7
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OT Xbox & Live (now video capture)
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , pjp writes: [] You don't mention country you're in. Canada, USA or ? I know nothing about DTC and until I had problems nothing about NTSC either I assume if I ever want to record from older equipment uses compsite video I'll first have to run it thru a modulator to get an ATSC analog channel 3 and rescan so it finds old Channel 3 and proceed from there. Both WinTV and WMC seem to discard channels it knows even when you tell it to when simply rescanning for "new" channels. That's seem to be chancy once/if everything is working. [] Older TV cards/sticks that _have_ an analogue tuner _usually_ (not always) have a baseband input socket on them (maybe less so in the case of the sticks). More modern ones, from the digital age, often don't have any analogue circuitry at all (well, baseband video; obviously the tuner is analogue in some sense), so even using a modulator won't help. Well, this is a Hybrid card, with a little of everything. In Canada, we no longer have Analog NTSC. And Media Center insists on scanning the analog anyway. https://s28.postimg.org/s7vjr8nb1/Hybrid.jpg For over the air, we have ATSC (8VSB etc). Canada has taken a step backwards, by dismantling a lot of transmitters and repeaters. This means that Digital TV is only available in major population centers or near the US border. When you look at how many "regional" configurations there are, there aren't many that need to be supported. Of course the way they figure out Guide Data would make your eyes water, but that's a different issue. This is supposed to be a fix for my problem, but this file is six years old, and what are the odds this still works ? ?xml version="1.0" ? MXF Assembly name="ehshell" NameSpace name="ServiceBus.UIFramework" Type name="TvSignalSetupParams" / /NameSpace /Assembly TvSignalSetupParams uid="tvss-ca" dvbtSupported="false" atscSupported="true" --- What I need for DTV OTA antenna usage qamSupported="true" autoSetupLikelyAntennaChannels="5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 ,13" autoSetupLikelyCableChannels="14,15,16,17,18,19,20 " autoSetupPositiveChannelThreshold="3" autoSetupRFChannels="3,4,2" autoSetupSupported="true" autoSetupLikelyAtscChannels="34,35,36,43,31,39,38, 32,41, 27,19,51,44,42,30,28" rfChannels="2,3,4" autoSetupLikelyQamChannels="69,71,75,78,81,84,87,9 0,93, 96,99,102,105,108,111,114,117,120" tvRatingSystem="US" / /MXF I expect right now, as a default config for WMC, it probably has atscSupported set to False, even though the damn tuner card is a Hybrid with everything except a CableCard (for encrypted QAM). I don't like to fling config files at the thing, unless I'm reasonably confident they won't make things worse. Like, if I could *edit* an existing file and just turn on that one boolean, I would be happy. However, the three MXF files I can find on C: are *encrypted*. And likely have to do with the Guide Data and protecting the Guide Data from "cannibals". Paul |
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OT Xbox & Live (now video capture)
Paul wrote:
And that's all it took. ******* EnableATSCandQAM.mxf ******* ?xml version="1.0" ? MXF Assembly name="ehshell" NameSpace name="ServiceBus.UIFramework" Type name="TvSignalSetupParams" / /NameSpace /Assembly TvSignalSetupParams uid="tvss-ca" dvbtSupported="false" atscSupported="true" qamSupported="true" autoSetupLikelyAntennaChannels="5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 ,13" autoSetupLikelyCableChannels="14,15,16,17,18,19,20 " autoSetupPositiveChannelThreshold="3" autoSetupRFChannels="3,4,2" autoSetupSupported="true" autoSetupLikelyAtscChannels="34,35,36,43,31,39,38, 32,41,27,19,51,44,42,30,28" rfChannels="2,3,4" autoSetupLikelyQamChannels="69,71,75,78,81,84,87,9 0,93,96,99,102,105,108,111,114,117,120" tvRatingSystem="US" / /MXF ******* EnableATSCandQAM.mxf ******* %windir%\ehome\loadmxf -i MXF\EnableATSCandQAM.mxf Magically, the next time I ran WMC and its setup, I had the right "flavor" of tuner (DTV) show up. Everything worked properly after that (even if I don't understand "10-foot display interfaces" all that well). https://s28.postimg.org/j1d93yi2l/setup.jpg So that's enough to get a Canadian onto OTA TV reception (which is only the digital-ATSC-type now, no NTSC analog). That file should also help a Clear-QAM user (cable TV digital, unencrypted type). ******* The situation on OTA here is pretty dire. A *government* operated TV station (TVO) announced recently they were shutting down OTA and "only broadcasting on cable TV". But strangely, the signal is still present on my rabbit ears antenna. And I found this: "TVO had previously announced a plan to decommission the transmitters, which would have resulted in an annual savings of $1 million required by TVO to meet its current financial targets." "That resulted in the government’s decision to flow an additional $1 million to TVO to ensure we can continue to operate the transmitters." So apparently that solves the problem this year. In another part of the country, you can see how the transition from analog (black circles) to digital (blue circles), now deprives the country of good coverage. The CBC used to be the broadcaster of last resort, in that if you live in the woods and stick up an antenna, the joke was "you'll always get CBC, even if you don't want it". But even that is no longer true. Vast areas of the country, won't have digital signals at all (but their population density is pretty low too). I picked this map, because it had the starkest contrast. http://www.cbc.radio-canada.ca/_file...4-tve-patl.pdf One of my broadcasters in the city here, shut down their regular transmitter and put up a *3kW* UHF transmitter. Now, if you remember the breathtaking amounts of power some analog stations used to use (250kW), you can probably see how I cannot receive a thing like that. I think the antenna is on top of an office building or something. You can see that's a good usage of a broadcaster license. A kind of "place-holder". Paul |
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OT Xbox & Live (now video capture)
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#10
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OT Xbox & Live (now video capture)
In message , pjp
writes: In article , says... In message , pjp writes: [] if I ever want to record from older equipment uses compsite video I'll first have to run it thru a modulator to get an ATSC analog channel 3 [] Older TV cards/sticks that _have_ an analogue tuner _usually_ (not always) have a baseband input socket on them (maybe less so in the case [] I would have thought any card receives old analog channel 3 would see anything sent via a tv modulater making channel 3? These Happauge USB tuners seem to have basically everything (multipule tuners) just nothing to deal with encrypted stuff (no surprise there). My point was that, for cards at least (USB sticks maybe didn't have room) that handled analogue TV transmissions, they usually had a baseband input as well: often both composite (yellow-insulator phono plug) and S-video (bit like a PS/2 keyboard or mouse connector). In other words, no need to use a TV modulator, just for the card to demodulate it again. (Incidentally, I presume from the way you're talking that "channel 3" is [was] the default for modulators in NTSC-land; in UK [and I think the rest of EU], it was channel 36, originally because that area wasn't used for broadcasting, since the frequencies were used for something else - I forget whether radio astronomy or ATC radar, I think the latter.) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf You'll need to have this fish in your ear. (First series, fit the first.) |
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OT Xbox & Live (now video capture)
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#12
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OT Xbox & Live (now video capture)
In article ,
says... In message , pjp writes: In article , says... In message , pjp writes: [] if I ever want to record from older equipment uses compsite video I'll first have to run it thru a modulator to get an ATSC analog channel 3 [] Older TV cards/sticks that _have_ an analogue tuner _usually_ (not always) have a baseband input socket on them (maybe less so in the case [] I would have thought any card receives old analog channel 3 would see anything sent via a tv modulater making channel 3? These Happauge USB tuners seem to have basically everything (multipule tuners) just nothing to deal with encrypted stuff (no surprise there). My point was that, for cards at least (USB sticks maybe didn't have room) that handled analogue TV transmissions, they usually had a baseband input as well: often both composite (yellow-insulator phono plug) and S-video (bit like a PS/2 keyboard or mouse connector). In other words, no need to use a TV modulator, just for the card to demodulate it again. (Incidentally, I presume from the way you're talking that "channel 3" is [was] the default for modulators in NTSC-land; in UK [and I think the rest of EU], it was channel 36, originally because that area wasn't used for broadcasting, since the frequencies were used for something else - I forget whether radio astronomy or ATC radar, I think the latter.) I have a couple of older TV Tuner cards have direct compsite and SVGA inputs. Problem is they are not supported in WMC nor do they tune in any digital channels just analog which don't exist where I live anymore, N.S. Canada. You are correct (I think in that yes here almost everything that puts out an old analog channel was switchable between channel 3 $ channel 4, vcrs, dvd player, gane consoles, you name it. Think I seen one or two it was channels 2 & 3 but that was uncommon. In my part of the country anything past channel 13 was never used, e.g. Halifax, N.S never has had any UHF channels which is what 14 to 69 where called. I also know you need a different attenna to pick up UHF properly over the "regular" channels 2-13 we normally received. |
#13
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OT Xbox & Live (now video capture)
In message , pjp
writes: [] In message , pjp writes: [] if I ever want to record from older equipment uses compsite video I'll first have to run it thru a modulator to get an ATSC analog channel 3 [] I have a couple of older TV Tuner cards have direct compsite and SVGA inputs. Problem is they are not supported in WMC nor do they tune in any digital channels just analog which don't exist where I live anymore, N.S. Canada. If you have material/equipment that puts out analogue video, probably worth getting a standalone video capture device; they were common a few years ago, in a range of qualities, though I suspect they're getting harder to find now, but you should still be able to find _some_thing. (And W7-compatible.) Given that the source material's probably not _that_ high a quality, the capture hardware is probably up to the job; they're often let down by the bundled software, but it usually includes at least raw capture, so you can do that then edit in something else later. You are correct (I think in that yes here almost everything that puts out an old analog channel was switchable between channel 3 $ channel 4, vcrs, dvd player, gane consoles, you name it. Think I seen one or two it was channels 2 & 3 but that was uncommon. In my part of the country anything past channel 13 was never used, e.g. Halifax, N.S never has had any UHF channels which is what 14 to 69 where called. I also know you need a different attenna to pick up UHF properly over the "regular" channels 2-13 we normally received. Yes, VHF signals were around 50 to around 300 MHz (with regional variations), being 6 down to 1 metre; UHF 300 to 900 (again with regional variations), so 1 down to 1/3 metre. The active elements of an aerial are about half a wavelength, so aerials for low VHF are about 3 metres, whereas those for UHF are a few inches. (You place the elements at right angles to the direction to the transmitter, though the support rod that carries them points to the transmitter.) UHF ones being smaller, you can add more elements (10 to 20 is common; VHF ones tended to be between 1 and 5 elements). [More elements gives more gain (directivity).] -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf "... four Oscars, and two further nominations ... On these criteria, he's Britain's most successful film director." Powell or Pressburger? no; Richard Attenborough? no; Nick Park! |
#14
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OT Xbox & Live (now video capture)
pjp wrote:
In article , lid says... TvSignalSetupParams uid="tvss-ca" dvbtSupported="false" atscSupported="true" qamSupported="true" I assume you changed the line TvSignalSetupParams uid="tvss-ca" dvbtSupported="false" atscSupported="true" qamSupported="true" to dvbtSupported to "true"? And what exactly is that in given I don't have a %windir%\ehome\loadmxf -i MXF\EnableATSCandQAM.mxf When they went digital here (Halifax) I had to go out and buy three digital to analog converters. I get three channels (four actually but one's a duplicate) CBC, ATV and Global. Only other option I have is sat. and I refuse to ever deal with them (again) until I can buy JUST the channels I want and at a reasonable cost. As I tell them, otherwise I don't mind waiting a few hours after somethings broadcast to watch it by downloading it. According to this, DVB-T is European. All I did was make sure the "ones listed on the box", were set to True :-) The Analog doesn't seem to have a flag, and I can only guess the RFchannels entry was sort of an admission of analog. While I could include analog CH3 coming from the STB, I normally run the STB into a composite input, elsewhere. The STB has RF and composite (=BaseBand). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVB-T This is my multi-media empire. Rabbit Ears Zinwell PC#1 Antenna -- 20dB amp ---- two-way-splitter ----- STB --- WinTV_BT878 --- DScaler 50 | BB ft | PC#2 +---------------- HVR-2255 ------ Windows Media Center One of the benefits of Rabbit Ears, is they aren't too directional. My stations come in on more than one compass point, which means using a rotator if the antenna has a small beamwidth. Paul |
#15
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OT Xbox & Live (now video capture)
pjp wrote:
In article , says... In message , pjp writes: In article , says... In message , pjp writes: [] if I ever want to record from older equipment uses compsite video I'll first have to run it thru a modulator to get an ATSC analog channel 3 [] Older TV cards/sticks that _have_ an analogue tuner _usually_ (not always) have a baseband input socket on them (maybe less so in the case [] I would have thought any card receives old analog channel 3 would see anything sent via a tv modulater making channel 3? These Happauge USB tuners seem to have basically everything (multipule tuners) just nothing to deal with encrypted stuff (no surprise there). My point was that, for cards at least (USB sticks maybe didn't have room) that handled analogue TV transmissions, they usually had a baseband input as well: often both composite (yellow-insulator phono plug) and S-video (bit like a PS/2 keyboard or mouse connector). In other words, no need to use a TV modulator, just for the card to demodulate it again. (Incidentally, I presume from the way you're talking that "channel 3" is [was] the default for modulators in NTSC-land; in UK [and I think the rest of EU], it was channel 36, originally because that area wasn't used for broadcasting, since the frequencies were used for something else - I forget whether radio astronomy or ATC radar, I think the latter.) I have a couple of older TV Tuner cards have direct compsite and SVGA inputs. Problem is they are not supported in WMC nor do they tune in any digital channels just analog which don't exist where I live anymore, N.S. Canada. You are correct (I think in that yes here almost everything that puts out an old analog channel was switchable between channel 3 $ channel 4, vcrs, dvd player, gane consoles, you name it. Think I seen one or two it was channels 2 & 3 but that was uncommon. In my part of the country anything past channel 13 was never used, e.g. Halifax, N.S never has had any UHF channels which is what 14 to 69 where called. I also know you need a different attenna to pick up UHF properly over the "regular" channels 2-13 we normally received. TheSource has antennas. This one is dual band, so picks up VHF and UHF. The price has gone up on these since I first priced one (due to Canadian currency fluctuation). It actually takes some effort, to make a good dual band antenna. It's not as simple as it looks. Channel Master CM 4228HD https://www.thesource.ca/en-ca/tvs-a...enna/p/1519124 Someone simulated that in 4NEC2, and CH9 VHF, the lobe is "inverted" and shoots out the back of the antenna. Translated into English, that means the antenna cannot really do a good job on Channel 9. So the predicted VHF performance isn't completely wonderful. But that does give coverage on both bands and has some gain. You have to be careful to find the 4NEC2 analysis, and see whether that duff channel is used in your area. I'm just going from memory, that it's Channel 9. ******* I think the Canadian government lost a golden opportunity. They could have scratched VHF entirely, and put all the digital TV on UHF. This would have simplified antenna design, and meant home owners could buy cheaper antennas. ******* Some of the antennas are conceptually flawed. You cannot (effectively) mix the signals from two antennas pointing in different directions, with any sort of guarantee on phasing. I found a review, too. https://www.thesource.ca/en-ca/tvs-a...na/p/108027141 https://forum.tvfool.com/showthread.php?t=2288 "the HDB8X is a competitive 8-Bay Bow Tie when used in its "flat panel" configuration but is nearly useless for leveraging its advertised multi-direction feature. " Which means the antenna is fine, if you align both panels in a common plane of operation. But at my site here, you could not expect to point the two halves at different compass points and get "amazing gain", as the two halves will have some degree of destructive interference. Before I could buy the HDB8X, I'd need to see the VHF performance. I expect in N.S., there's probably a good deal of VHF for TV, rather than UHF. They did that, so the original transmitters could be used by some of the cheapskate stations. The channel width is still 6MHz, but the modulation is going to be different. The industry wanted around $500 million, to retrofit brand new transmitters for DTV. The government provided... $0. And what you get, is what you paid for. Not all the stations could justify doing the job properly. The government provided no money for TV stations and did not provide coupons for digital STBs. If you wanted an STB, at the time they were around $80 here. That's how you'd get a digital signal into a legacy TV set. The government was sending some kind of message, but I don't know what that message was intended to say. You can see in this article, they're nibbling away at TV frequencies. I wasn't aware it was this bad, until just reading this article now. Shocked I am, but not surprised. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_high_frequency 1983: 806-890 MHz (UHF channels 70–83) taken away from TV primarily for analog mobile telephony 2009: 698-806 MHz (UHF channels 52–69) was removed from TV (DTV) making it available for other uses. 2017: 614–698 MHz: Mobile broadband shared with TV channels 38–51 auctioned in April 2017. TV stations will relocate by 2020. So maybe it won't be that long, until they have "snacked" all the way down to VHF. And the stations betting on VHF, were actually right all along. Paul |
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