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#16
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New Box no sleep
Drew wrote:
On 8/20/2017 4:22 AM, VanguardLH wrote: Paul wrote: Char Jackson wrote: On Sat, 19 Aug 2017 17:30:50 -0600, Drew wrote: New computer not sleeping?, running win 10 64 pro. When I set it to sleep, The monitor shuts off, the keyboard and mouse do the same. Computer itself (desktop) stays on and fans are turning. Router also shows that the pc is sleeping After waiting a few minutes for the pc to go dark and the fans to stop (it does not) I have tried to move or click the mouse and or keyboard and nothing happens without a hard restart. Cannot seem to figure out why. I have tried for hrs digging through different settings and to no avail. I have tried power cfg -h on and -h off and still. Tried power options, usb settings and cannot seem to find what is needed. Any help would be appreciated greatly. Specs are Asus Rog Strix 270g motherboard Intel core i7 7700k 32gigs ram Nvidia turbo 1070 graphics card Is this a homebuilt computer? Are the fans plugged in where they should be? That looks like a gaming motherboard. Is there anything in the BIOS that affects sleep and/or fans? There was a time when "S1, S3, S1&S3" was a popular thing to adjust in the legacy BIOS. If that happened to be set incorrectly, a person would need to use "dumppo" to do an "override". Dumppo no longer works in Win10. Which means you won't have to learn how to use it. I noticed powercfg has an "override" option, but I haven't checked out what it can override. And I don't think that setting is in a UEFI BIOS any more. As the OS provides all the adjustments you could ever need. Both Linux or Windows can hammer the settings needed. So we should gradually wave goodbye to dumppo, in the rear view mirror. Paul Since the hardware is responsible for regulating CPU temperature *before* any OS can be loaded, and especially if no OS is loaded (drive could be missing, dead, unreachable or no OS yet installed), there must be controls in the BIOS/UEFI to have it control fan speed based on temperature sensor(s). http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/...B_20170406.pdf Notice it has fan control. While the OS can issue commands to the BIOS to regulate fan speed, the BIOS gets to override any such requests. If the BIOS is configured to always run the fans at full speed then it doesn't matter what the OS requests. The manual also mentions differentiation between PWM (pulse width modulation) and DC mode for controlling fan speed. PWM is used for 4-pin CPU fans and DC (voltage) for 3-pin CPU fans. With just 3 pins (12VDC, ground, RPM), there is no direct control of the fan's speed. Software (e.g., Speedfan) can effect PWM with some controllers by changing the duty cycle of the voltage to the fan; i.e., some percentage voltage on, the rest of the cycle with voltage off. I know that Speedfan can help effect PWM via duty cycle of power cycling but only with some controllers. Duty cycle is not linear to fan speed. That is, a 50-50 duty cycle (on half the cycle, off the other half) does not equate to half speed for the fan. The effect to average the voltage to reduce it is akin to using a series resistor to slow the fan. PWM does not alter voltage to the fan. Voltage is constant to the fan. The PWM signal tells the fan the duty cycle but the fan changes its speed, not because voltage to it was averaged to less voltage. A 3-pin DC fan will have +12 VDC line, ground line, and sense (RPM) output input. A 4-pin PWM fan will have +12 VDC and ground lines, a sense (RPM) output, and a control (PWM) input. The PWM signal works similar to duty cycling the input power but has the fan changing its speed with a constant 12 VDC line. The problem with DC fans is that duty cycle could be lowered so far that the fan was incapable of spinning, and some BIOSes would trigger a shutdown if they sensed zero RPM on the CPU fan. A good program using power duty cycle to reduce voltage should set the fan to full speed upon exit of the fan control software as a safety measure, like when unloading Speedfan (but not if you kill it via taskkill.exe or using Task Manager since the process is not shutdown to run its exit routine but instead immediately killed). While the OS can issue the same commands to the controller as can Speedfan, it has no means of making a 3-pin fan into a 4-pin fan or compensating for the wrong type of control configured in the BIOS. Could be, for a home-built, the OP installed cheaper 3-pin DC fans, the BIOS come pre-configured with PWM control, and the OS is trying to control the fan using the wrong method. Could be the BIOS is configured to always run the fan at full speed so the request from the OS gets ignored. "New computer" doesn't say if the OP bought a pre-built or bought the components and built his own. Could be the pre-built has the wrong BIOS settings for the type of fan(s) used. Could be the OP connected 4-pins to 3-pin headers or used 3-pin fans (on 3- or 4-pin headers) and didn't make the BIOS settings match. Because the OP gave the make and model of the motherboard makes me suspect that he jobbed the build himself but he used the wrong type of fan or might've even got is misaligned on the header pins or he needs to change the BIOS to match the type of fans that he actually installed. VanguardLH, The computer was built by Xidax and I have not changed any setting that I know of. Maybe just maybe they have a setting wrong. Paul, I was up half the night using the powercfg -energy tool and there was about 25 different settings and or problems that needed addressing and a follow up test. Still no luck. I also noticed the ONLY way to shut the computer off is by way of power switch on the computer. Any attempt at a "software" shutdown does not work. The one I could find here, only sleep was affected. https://www.tenforums.com/software-a...onfigured.html ******* In this one, Internet Connection Sharing seems to be hosing things. With ICS, you can have two LAN connections, and the second connection is for your 192.168.1.x subnet. It allows running multiple PCs (in a serial string of machines) without a router. https://www.tenforums.com/general-su...t-how-fix.html ******* And there was nothing in the board forum. http://vip.asus.com/forum/topic.aspx... nguage=en-us ******* I can't find one that blocks shutdown. If a driver crashed, I would think the PC would reboot. Paul |
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#17
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New Box no sleep
On 20/08/2017 17:47, Drew wrote:
On 8/20/2017 10:15 AM, David B. wrote: On 20/08/2017 15:40, Drew wrote: On 8/20/2017 8:16 AM, David B. wrote: Have you tried contacting 'support' (in green box) here? https://www.xidax.com/lifetimewarranty Yes I have done that. Long time customer. They build great machines and you cannot beat their warranty. So ..... how are they going to help you, Drew? It is Sunday and I am waiting for a real person to answer. I am sure they will but as I said it is Sunday. OK - I understand! :-) -- “Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.” (Winston S. Churchill) |
#18
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New Box no sleep
On 8/20/2017 11:01 AM, Paul wrote:
Drew wrote: On 8/20/2017 4:22 AM, VanguardLH wrote: Paul wrote: Char Jackson wrote: On Sat, 19 Aug 2017 17:30:50 -0600, Drew wrote: New computer not sleeping?, running win 10 64 pro. When I set it to sleep, The monitor shuts off, the keyboard and mouse do the same. Computer itself (desktop) stays on and fans are turning. Router also shows that the pc is sleeping* After waiting a few minutes for the pc to go dark and the fans to stop (it does not) I have tried to move or click the mouse and or keyboard and nothing happens without a hard restart. Cannot seem to figure out why. I have tried for hrs digging through different settings and to no avail. I have tried power cfg -h on and -h off and still. Tried power options, usb settings and cannot seem to find what is needed. Any help would be appreciated greatly. Specs are Asus Rog Strix 270g motherboard Intel core i7 7700k 32gigs ram Nvidia turbo 1070 graphics card Is this a homebuilt computer? Are the fans plugged in where they should be? That looks like a gaming motherboard. Is there anything in the BIOS that affects sleep and/or fans? There was a time when "S1, S3, S1&S3" was a popular thing to adjust in the legacy BIOS. If that happened to be set incorrectly, a person would need to use "dumppo" to do an "override". Dumppo no longer works in Win10. Which means you won't have to learn how to use it. I noticed powercfg has an "override" option, but I haven't checked out what it can override. And I don't think that setting is in a UEFI BIOS any more. As the OS provides all the adjustments you could ever need. Both Linux or Windows can hammer the settings needed. So we should gradually wave goodbye to dumppo, in the rear view mirror. **** Paul Since the hardware is responsible for regulating CPU temperature *before* any OS can be loaded, and especially if no OS is loaded (drive could be missing, dead, unreachable or no OS yet installed), there must be controls in the BIOS/UEFI to have it control fan speed based on temperature sensor(s). http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/...B_20170406.pdf Notice it has fan control.* While the OS can issue commands to the BIOS to regulate fan speed, the BIOS gets to override any such requests.* If the BIOS is configured to always run the fans at full speed then it doesn't matter what the OS requests. The manual also mentions differentiation between PWM (pulse width modulation) and DC mode for controlling fan speed.* PWM is used for 4-pin CPU fans and DC (voltage) for 3-pin CPU fans.* With just 3 pins (12VDC, ground, RPM), there is no direct control of the fan's speed. Software (e.g., Speedfan) can effect PWM with some controllers by changing the duty cycle of the voltage to the fan; i.e., some percentage voltage on, the rest of the cycle with voltage off.* I know that Speedfan can help effect PWM via duty cycle of power cycling but only with some controllers.* Duty cycle is not linear to fan speed.* That is, a 50-50 duty cycle (on half the cycle, off the other half) does not equate to half speed for the fan.* The effect to average the voltage to reduce it is akin to using a series resistor to slow the fan. PWM does not alter voltage to the fan.* Voltage is constant to the fan. The PWM signal tells the fan the duty cycle but the fan changes its speed, not because voltage to it was averaged to less voltage. A 3-pin DC fan will have +12 VDC line, ground line, and sense (RPM) output input.* A 4-pin PWM fan will have +12 VDC and ground lines, a sense (RPM) output, and a control (PWM) input.* The PWM signal works similar to duty cycling the input power but has the fan changing its speed with a constant 12 VDC line. The problem with DC fans is that duty cycle could be lowered so far that the fan was incapable of spinning, and some BIOSes would trigger a shutdown if they sensed zero RPM on the CPU fan.* A good program using power duty cycle to reduce voltage should set the fan to full speed upon exit of the fan control software as a safety measure, like when unloading Speedfan (but not if you kill it via taskkill.exe or using Task Manager since the process is not shutdown to run its exit routine but instead immediately killed). While the OS can issue the same commands to the controller as can Speedfan, it has no means of making a 3-pin fan into a 4-pin fan or compensating for the wrong type of control configured in the BIOS. Could be, for a home-built, the OP installed cheaper 3-pin DC fans, the BIOS come pre-configured with PWM control, and the OS is trying to control the fan using the wrong method.* Could be the BIOS is configured to always run the fan at full speed so the request from the OS gets ignored. "New computer" doesn't say if the OP bought a pre-built or bought the components and built his own.* Could be the pre-built has the wrong BIOS settings for the type of fan(s) used.* Could be the OP connected 4-pins to 3-pin headers or used 3-pin fans (on 3- or 4-pin headers) and didn't make the BIOS settings match. Because the OP gave the make and model of the motherboard makes me suspect that he jobbed the build himself but he used the wrong type of fan or might've even got is misaligned on the header pins or he needs to change the BIOS to match the type of fans that he actually installed. VanguardLH, The computer was built by Xidax and I have not changed any setting that I know of. Maybe just maybe they have a setting wrong. Paul, I was up half the night using the powercfg -energy tool and there was about 25 different settings and or problems that needed addressing and a follow up test. Still no luck. I also noticed the ONLY way to shut the computer off is by way of power switch on the computer. Any attempt at a "software" shutdown does not work. The one I could find here, only sleep was affected. https://www.tenforums.com/software-a...onfigured.html ******* In this one, Internet Connection Sharing seems to be hosing things. With ICS, you can have two LAN connections, and the second connection is for your 192.168.1.x subnet. It allows running multiple PCs (in a serial string of machines) without a router. https://www.tenforums.com/general-su...t-how-fix.html ******* And there was nothing in the board forum. http://vip.asus.com/forum/topic.aspx... nguage=en-us ******* I can't find one that blocks shutdown. If a driver crashed, I would think the PC would reboot. ** Paul As always if I need help, this is the place to go.Tried every trick mentioned and I have been at this for hrs now and still no luck. Will wait for tech support I guess. It has to be a setting somewhere or assembled incorrectly. I guess since tech support is in the same building as the guy who built it they will put there heads together and figure it out. I have never had a problem with them before. (3 pc's) as well as I know friends who have purchased as well. |
#19
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New Box no sleep
"Drew" wrote
| I have never had a problem with them before. (3 pc's) as | well as I know friends who have purchased as well. I've been building my own for many years and have found that if I add a fan directly connected to power it won't turn off with sleep. In other words, the CPU fan and case fan plugged into the board turn off, but at times I've added an extra that I've attached directly to a power plug from the power supply. Those don't turn off. I don't know whether that may be your issue or not. And I don't know whether there's any configuration that can be used to override that behavior. |
#20
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New Box no sleep
On 8/20/2017 4:44 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Drew" wrote | I have never had a problem with them before. (3 pc's) as | well as I know friends who have purchased as well. I've been building my own for many years and have found that if I add a fan directly connected to power it won't turn off with sleep. In other words, the CPU fan and case fan plugged into the board turn off, but at times I've added an extra that I've attached directly to a power plug from the power supply. Those don't turn off. I don't know whether that may be your issue or not. And I don't know whether there's any configuration that can be used to override that behavior. I can't tell you exactly where, but somewhere in the logs you can find the wake events. Whether what they say can tell you what to fix is...maybe. I had one computer that was awakened by the lan port. I found no way to fix it. Ended up disabling the internal lan port in the BIOS and using a plug-in lan card. Worked fine since. |
#21
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New Box no sleep
On 8/20/2017 5:44 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Drew" wrote | I have never had a problem with them before. (3 pc's) as | well as I know friends who have purchased as well. I've been building my own for many years and have found that if I add a fan directly connected to power it won't turn off with sleep. In other words, the CPU fan and case fan plugged into the board turn off, but at times I've added an extra that I've attached directly to a power plug from the power supply. Those don't turn off. I don't know whether that may be your issue or not. And I don't know whether there's any configuration that can be used to override that behavior. Through trial and error I have found that when you use the (start menu) power button to (a) put the computer to sleep= monitor,keyboard,mouse= shutdown but pc stays on. cannot wake it by keyboard or mouse (b) restart= works as it should. (c)choose shutdown and all seems to be the same as sleep but pc remains on (d) using the powerbutton on pc then all shutdown including pc (lights,fans etc) I do not think it is hibernate as I have disabling and re enabling that several times. |
#22
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New Box no sleep
Drew wrote:
On 8/20/2017 5:44 PM, Mayayana wrote: "Drew" wrote | I have never had a problem with them before. (3 pc's) as | well as I know friends who have purchased as well. I've been building my own for many years and have found that if I add a fan directly connected to power it won't turn off with sleep. In other words, the CPU fan and case fan plugged into the board turn off, but at times I've added an extra that I've attached directly to a power plug from the power supply. Those don't turn off. I don't know whether that may be your issue or not. And I don't know whether there's any configuration that can be used to override that behavior. Through trial and error I have found that when you use the (start menu) power button to (a) put the computer to sleep= monitor,keyboard,mouse= shutdown but pc stays on. cannot wake it by keyboard or mouse (b) restart= works as it should. (c)choose shutdown and all seems to be the same as sleep but pc remains on (d) using the powerbutton on pc then all shutdown including pc (lights,fans etc) I do not think it is hibernate as I have disabling and re enabling that several times. Boot a Linux LiveCD and test the shutdown capability from there ? That's to eliminate a Windows issue. ******* Even their shutdowns aren't bulletproof. So I kinda hesitate to suggest that, because of all the different symptoms I've seen there. Maybe I should test this :-) OK, for the task, I'll suggest something which is non-mainstream. Burn this to a DVD, even though it's a small file. It boots a bit faster, because DVDs read faster. This is a kind of Puppy Linux distro, only it works with modern hardware. 377,487,360 bytes MD5=50720d2edc71a3336aa0935a0151b4fd http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/iso/Fatdog64-710.iso The top item in the boot menu on that works fine. You can take your hands off keyboard, and it should boot on its own after a ten second delay. You'll see "five rows of dots" while it boots. It's a "TORAM" distro and copies itself into RAM, which is what takes so long. And that's why the speed of the DVD, helps, as the boot process is mostly sequential. When the GUI desktop eventually appears (with the FatDog logo in the center), push the eject button on your optical drive tray. It might take ten or fifteen seconds to eject, but it should eject at that point. Now, go to the menu in the lower left corner, and it should have a shutdown option. It will put up two dialogs containing "stupid questions". No, you don't want to save the session, and yes, you're really sure. That sort of thing. Then, when the actual shutdown sequence happens, you'll see text, you'll see mention of "disks spinning down". And it should actually execute shutdown without any additional keyboard input from the user. HTH, Paul |
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