win 10 on 10 year old hardware

Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-08-16 01:27, Peter Jason wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 23:00:45 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Peter Jason wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 11:58:29 -0400, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2017-08-15 10:37, Paul wrote:
Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-08-14 23:11, Peter Jason wrote:
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 22:47:07 -0400, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2017-08-14 19:31, Peter Jason wrote:
[...]
My hardware is 10year old and works OK.

My booting problem such as you describe was caused by the BIOS
battery
terminals being tarnished over time and needed a good clean.
The
little battery needs its surface polished too.
That's a sign of the battery is dying: at full voltage, the
current can
cut through a fair amount of dirt and oxidation.
My old one is working fine after the good clean.
Of course, because you've reduced the surface resistance
considerably.
But you'll have to clean it again fairly soon. If I were you I'd
make
sure I knew what battery to get when a good clean doesn't work
any more.

Good luck,

Surface resistance ?

The battery provides 0 to 10uA of current.
How much surface resistance do you need to drop 0.6V ?
Well, that's been my experience. Clean a button battery, it will work
for a while longer, the quit again. Sometimes a second cleanup will
work, too. But if a cleanup revitalsies the battery, I think it's
on its
last legs.

[snip the usual technical and interesting :-) stuff. You really do
go to
great lengths to educate us. Thanks.]

My car alarm key-chain gadget has two tiny 1616 disk batteries, and
these need a clean every so often because the alarm canceling function
becomes sluggish over time. They're in my pocket all the time.

The peak power (pulse) could be larger on a thing like that.
It is "high" power for short periods, so the average power
isn't that bad.

They even make key-fob flashlights that run on CRxxxx batteries,
and that wouldn't exactly be low current.

As for the cleaning bit, once you start cleaning, you'll be
cleaning forever. Until you replace one or both contact
surfaces in the thing that doesn't work properly.

Paul

I will be. The model is obsolete and came with the car. I have to
keep it going until the car is sold.

???? I was under the impression that the dealer can replace any fob.

Actually, surprisingly, no. Here's an example of being put through hell.

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/lost-car-key-co...lars-1.3448713

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...-van-1.4244915

A dealer could cut a regular key for you, but anything
else, who knows what evil lurks.

Paul

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 11:12:17 -0400, Paul wrote:

Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-08-16 01:27, Peter Jason wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 23:00:45 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Peter Jason wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 11:58:29 -0400, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2017-08-15 10:37, Paul wrote:
Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-08-14 23:11, Peter Jason wrote:
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 22:47:07 -0400, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2017-08-14 19:31, Peter Jason wrote:
[...]
My hardware is 10year old and works OK.

My booting problem such as you describe was caused by the BIOS
battery
terminals being tarnished over time and needed a good clean.
The
little battery needs its surface polished too.
That's a sign of the battery is dying: at full voltage, the
current can
cut through a fair amount of dirt and oxidation.
My old one is working fine after the good clean.
Of course, because you've reduced the surface resistance
considerably.
But you'll have to clean it again fairly soon. If I were you I'd
make
sure I knew what battery to get when a good clean doesn't work
any more.

Good luck,

Surface resistance ?

The battery provides 0 to 10uA of current.
How much surface resistance do you need to drop 0.6V ?
Well, that's been my experience. Clean a button battery, it will work
for a while longer, the quit again. Sometimes a second cleanup will
work, too. But if a cleanup revitalsies the battery, I think it's
on its
last legs.

[snip the usual technical and interesting :-) stuff. You really do
go to
great lengths to educate us. Thanks.]

My car alarm key-chain gadget has two tiny 1616 disk batteries, and
these need a clean every so often because the alarm canceling function
becomes sluggish over time. They're in my pocket all the time.

The peak power (pulse) could be larger on a thing like that.
It is "high" power for short periods, so the average power
isn't that bad.

They even make key-fob flashlights that run on CRxxxx batteries,
and that wouldn't exactly be low current.

As for the cleaning bit, once you start cleaning, you'll be
cleaning forever. Until you replace one or both contact
surfaces in the thing that doesn't work properly.

Paul

I will be. The model is obsolete and came with the car. I have to
keep it going until the car is sold.

???? I was under the impression that the dealer can replace any fob.

Actually, surprisingly, no. Here's an example of being put through hell.

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/lost-car-key-co...lars-1.3448713

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...-van-1.4244915

A dealer could cut a regular key for you, but anything
else, who knows what evil lurks.

"The imported 15-year-old hybrid Toyota van was not intended for the
North American market and Toyota Canada told the Higgens shipping it to
Japan was their only option."

That's what's known as an edge case, or corner case. For vehicles sold
in North America that are intended for the North American market, I
wouldn't expect to run into a problem like that.

On 08/16/2017 12:53 AM, Lucifer Morningstar wrote:

[snip]

You must be a very patient guy ;-)

I had a PC running XP with 96 MB RAM.


I have set up Win 2000 on an old 166 MHz Pentium PC with 128MB (maximum
for this PC). It is VERY slow but my friend wanted to play "Spider
Solitaire". It's fast enough for that after it boots.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The reward of a thing well done is to have done it." -- Ralph Waldo
Emerson

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 08/16/2017 12:53 AM, Lucifer Morningstar wrote:

[snip]

You must be a very patient guy ;-)

I had a PC running XP with 96 MB RAM.


I have set up Win 2000 on an old 166 MHz Pentium PC with 128MB (maximum
for this PC). It is VERY slow but my friend wanted to play "Spider
Solitaire". It's fast enough for that after it boots.


"after it boots" I bet you have plenty of time to not only to drink a
cup of coffee but make it as well while it is booting...

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 14:50:01 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 08/16/2017 12:53 AM, Lucifer Morningstar wrote:

[snip]

You must be a very patient guy ;-)

I had a PC running XP with 96 MB RAM.


I have set up Win 2000 on an old 166 MHz Pentium PC with 128MB (maximum
for this PC). It is VERY slow but my friend wanted to play "Spider
Solitaire". It's fast enough for that after it boots.

I had a TRS-80 with 4 K of RAM.

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 16:39:06 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little"
wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 08/16/2017 12:53 AM, Lucifer Morningstar wrote:

[snip]

You must be a very patient guy ;-)

I had a PC running XP with 96 MB RAM.


I have set up Win 2000 on an old 166 MHz Pentium PC with 128MB (maximum
for this PC). It is VERY slow but my friend wanted to play "Spider
Solitaire". It's fast enough for that after it boots.


"after it boots" I bet you have plenty of time to not only to drink a
cup of coffee but make it as well while it is booting...

I had a PC running Windows XP with 96 MB or RAM.

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 11:12:17 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-08-16 01:27, Peter Jason wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 23:00:45 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Peter Jason wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 11:58:29 -0400, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2017-08-15 10:37, Paul wrote:
Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-08-14 23:11, Peter Jason wrote:
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 22:47:07 -0400, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2017-08-14 19:31, Peter Jason wrote:
[...]
My hardware is 10year old and works OK.

My booting problem such as you describe was caused by the BIOS
battery
terminals being tarnished over time and needed a good clean.
The
little battery needs its surface polished too.
That's a sign of the battery is dying: at full voltage, the
current can
cut through a fair amount of dirt and oxidation.
My old one is working fine after the good clean.
Of course, because you've reduced the surface resistance
considerably.
But you'll have to clean it again fairly soon. If I were you I'd
make
sure I knew what battery to get when a good clean doesn't work
any more.

Good luck,

Surface resistance ?

The battery provides 0 to 10uA of current.
How much surface resistance do you need to drop 0.6V ?
Well, that's been my experience. Clean a button battery, it will work
for a while longer, the quit again. Sometimes a second cleanup will
work, too. But if a cleanup revitalsies the battery, I think it's
on its
last legs.

[snip the usual technical and interesting :-) stuff. You really do
go to
great lengths to educate us. Thanks.]

My car alarm key-chain gadget has two tiny 1616 disk batteries, and
these need a clean every so often because the alarm canceling function
becomes sluggish over time. They're in my pocket all the time.

The peak power (pulse) could be larger on a thing like that.
It is "high" power for short periods, so the average power
isn't that bad.

They even make key-fob flashlights that run on CRxxxx batteries,
and that wouldn't exactly be low current.

As for the cleaning bit, once you start cleaning, you'll be
cleaning forever. Until you replace one or both contact
surfaces in the thing that doesn't work properly.

Paul

I will be. The model is obsolete and came with the car. I have to
keep it going until the car is sold.

???? I was under the impression that the dealer can replace any fob.

Actually, surprisingly, no. Here's an example of being put through hell.

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/lost-car-key-co...lars-1.3448713

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...-van-1.4244915

A dealer could cut a regular key for you, but anything
else, who knows what evil lurks.

Paul

The firm that made the little alarms went out of business ages ago.

Lucifer Morningstar wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 16:39:06 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little"
wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 08/16/2017 12:53 AM, Lucifer Morningstar wrote:

[snip]

You must be a very patient guy ;-)

I had a PC running XP with 96 MB RAM.


I have set up Win 2000 on an old 166 MHz Pentium PC with 128MB (maximum
for this PC). It is VERY slow but my friend wanted to play "Spider
Solitaire". It's fast enough for that after it boots.


"after it boots" I bet you have plenty of time to not only to drink a
cup of coffee but make it as well while it is booting...

I had a PC running Windows XP with 96 MB or RAM.

Okay. Some folks wore hair shirts too...whatever floats your boat.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

Lucifer Morningstar wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 14:50:01 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 08/16/2017 12:53 AM, Lucifer Morningstar wrote:

[snip]

You must be a very patient guy ;-)

I had a PC running XP with 96 MB RAM.


I have set up Win 2000 on an old 166 MHz Pentium PC with 128MB (maximum
for this PC). It is VERY slow but my friend wanted to play "Spider
Solitaire". It's fast enough for that after it boots.

I had a TRS-80 with 4 K of RAM.


Not running Windows.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

On 08/16/2017 03:39 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:

Yes.

"after it boots" I bet you have plenty of time to not only to drink a
cup of coffee but make it as well while it is booting...


Yes, which is why I don't use it much now.

Another reason is that W2K had this annoyance where it wants you to
change your password every month or so.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The reward of a thing well done is to have done it." -- Ralph Waldo
Emerson

On 08/16/2017 10:25 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:

[snip]

I have set up Win 2000 on an old 166 MHz Pentium PC with 128MB (maximum
for this PC). It is VERY slow but my friend wanted to play "Spider
Solitaire". It's fast enough for that after it boots.

I had a TRS-80 with 4 K of RAM.


Not running Windows.


Once I imagined an emulator running Windows on a Commodore 64 with 1
(170K) floppy drive and no hard drive. That would be really slow with a
lot of disk swaps.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The reward of a thing well done is to have done it." -- Ralph Waldo
Emerson

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 08/16/2017 03:39 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:

Yes.

"after it boots" I bet you have plenty of time to not only to drink a
cup of coffee but make it as well while it is booting...


Yes, which is why I don't use it much now.

Another reason is that W2K had this annoyance where it wants you to
change your password every month or so.


Only if you set the policy to do so. First place to check is with Local
Users and Groups

lusrmgr.msc

Users USER_ID Properties [X] Password never expires.

Other login settings in Local Security Policy. Don't remember if the
path to it in the GUI has changed since W2K. In W10 it's:

Control Panel Administration Tools Local Security Policy

or secpol.msc

I've set lockout policies there for incorrect passwords attempts on my
system for security. But if you want to force password changes after X
number of days you can change it from the default 42 days at:

Security Settings Account Policies Password Policy Maximum
password age

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

Lucifer Morningstar wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 16:39:06 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little"
wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 08/16/2017 12:53 AM, Lucifer Morningstar wrote:

[snip]

You must be a very patient guy ;-)

I had a PC running XP with 96 MB RAM.


I have set up Win 2000 on an old 166 MHz Pentium PC with 128MB (maximum
for this PC). It is VERY slow but my friend wanted to play "Spider
Solitaire". It's fast enough for that after it boots.


"after it boots" I bet you have plenty of time to not only to drink a
cup of coffee but make it as well while it is booting...

I had a PC running Windows XP with 96 MB or RAM.

Ouch. 256 MB of RAM was bad enough for me. :O
--
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Darklight wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Darklight wrote:

So i went into power options and disabled everything

including disabling hybrid boot? i.e. set the opposite to this article



http://lifehacker.com/enable-this-setting-to-make-windows-10-boot-up-faster-1743697169
Thank all for your input. When i get this pc back i will look further
into
it. The pc in question is only a test pc for a friend who is used to
laptops and has never owned a pc before, and who also wants to have a dual
monitor display. it's just to give him a taste of what it's like.

Thanks again.

Just an fyi i changed the battery and all was fine. I took it where it was
destined. Turned it on and nothing dead as a door nail would not even post.
changed the power supply and is now working perfectly.

Darklight wrote:
Darklight wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Darklight wrote:

So i went into power options and disabled everything
including disabling hybrid boot? i.e. set the opposite to this article


http://lifehacker.com/enable-this-setting-to-make-windows-10-boot-up-faster-1743697169
Thank all for your input. When i get this pc back i will look further
into
it. The pc in question is only a test pc for a friend who is used to
laptops and has never owned a pc before, and who also wants to have a dual
monitor display. it's just to give him a taste of what it's like.

Thanks again.

Just an fyi i changed the battery and all was fine. I took it where it was
destined. Turned it on and nothing dead as a door nail would not even post.
changed the power supply and is now working perfectly.

If this is a really old PSU and not under warranty any more,
you could (carefully) remove the four screws on the lid and
do a visual check for leaking caps. Then put the lid back on.
Don't go poking around in there, or drop your screwdriver
in there. (While it would normally be reasonably safe, best
not to take chances.)

In this diagram, R2 and R3 (top right) are the ones that drain
the main caps and make things safe. If R2 or R3 were to fail,
dropping a screwdriver into the innards could be dangerous.

http://www.pavouk.org/hw/en_atxps.html

I had an Antec here, that failed in storage, not under any stress
at all. The caps were leaking two years after purchase, and with
only a couple hours runtime on it (when I bought it). I like to run the
supplies for a couple hours when new and just check that the
outputs are all correct. It's not much of a test, but is
intended to avoid duff stuff later (with no return option).
I usually keep one spare PSU here, for a rainy day. In my case,
it was the caps on the +5V outputs.

Paul