MS unwanted updates tonight...

....w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:

If not, then I don't consider it to be an alternative, because it's
totally different and offers no migration/import part from OE/WM.

IMAP for many email accounts has been the easiest migration route to
Windows 10 Mail client since both OE and Vista, like Windows 10, support
IMAP.

IMAP is neither needed nor easy (except is the simplest of cases).

The other optional route for email accounts was available from 2008
through the fall of 2016 for MSA(Microsoft Accounts).
That migration route was DeltaSync for Outlook.com, Hotmail, Live, and
MSn accounts in Windows Live Mail which was an installable client on XP
and Vista.
- One need not use the WLM client thereafter but the route to 'push'
your mail and contacts to Outlook.com(fka Hotmail, Live. Msn.com) was
the method MSFT provided. Whether one like the approach or not, it
'was' available and is still available today, once installed[1] since
WLM12 still has the ability to import OE and WM mail into WLM for
copy/move into any email account supporting IMAP. While not all email
accounts support IMAP, the majority do provide IMAP and POP3 support.

I went from OE to WM to WLM, so I'm aware of what they can (not) do.

The bottom line, if you really needed to migrate the options were/are
available...but to do so the underlying requirement and expectedly so
was the need for a MSA account(Outlook/Live/Hotmail/MSn.com or 3rd party
registered email address as an MSA) or the use of IMAP.

Nope, because:

[...]

3. Windows Live Mail is another choice. I also think that's a poor
choice, but it too is a choice.

See my other response. WLM is bug-ridden, bordering on unuseable.

*If* WLM would be a realistic migration path, I would still be on it.

WLM has never been everyone's cup of tea, but when migration is the
concern - it was MSFT provided route. Not using then or now[1] doesn't
negate the option being available from MSFT.

You 'overlooked' my "WLM is bug-ridden, bordering on unuseable."
comment.

Hence WLM was *not* the "MSFT provided route". WLM was not even
adapted to work correctly on Windows 8[.1]. For example not looking at
Contacts and not being backed up by File History (because the WLM Store
Folder is in the wrong place).

WLM is also broken in other areas, such as FUBARring the structure
of imported WM folders and - as I mentioned before - not removing
expired messages from the POP server.

And these are only the WLM bugs which I can somewhat easily recollect
after some three years. There are probably others which I've forgotten.

[1] WLM while no longer available for download from MSFT's servers it
can be obtained via 3rd party hosting sites.

WLM no longer being available from Microsoft is probably a good thing.

[...]

Thus stating that no migration path was/is available from MSFT would be
in error especially since the option was available for over 8 years,
more than sufficient time for OE/WM users implementation.

Was it the best and easiest route? No.
Was/Is a migration route available? Yes

A 'migration route' which ends up with a broken MUA FUBARring your
existing mail, isn't one. Period.

[Dodging each and every argument duly noted.]

You missed the point. The methods for migration was/is available. Not
perfect but available - which was the basis of your point.

I did 'miss' any point, mainly because there *was* no 'point'.

You are clearly unable to counter the arguments, 'so' you shoot the
messenger. So I repeat:

A 'migration route' which ends up with a broken MUA FUBARring your
existing mail, isn't one. Period.

Unfortunately, if still waiting for migration from a a 21 year old
application(OE) or 14 yr old(Vista WM) - it's not going to be something
provided from MSFT's end - development and resources for those programs
ended 12 yrs. ago.

Don't move the goalposts, by rewriting history! WLM was broken from
the time that WM on Vista was still a current and supported product and
that support ended only (slightly less than) *one* year ago.

But feel free to keep riding that dead horse, that saddle isn't going
anywhere.

Feel free to be a Microsoft apologist who can't be bothered by facts
or arguments and has no other 'ammunition' than denial, belittlement,
shooting the messenger, etc..

Lol...still not understanding WLM design intent.

(Not) LOL, still dodging (and probably not understanding) the
arguments.

_ = For use with syncable(Contacts, Calendar, SkyDrive) MSA accounts
- Live, Hotmail, MSn and temporarily for Outlook.com until the DeltaSync
backend server was shutdown in favor of Office365 backend functionality.

The only OE targeted users were those who were using WebDav for Hotmail
and MSn accounts. WM users were never targeted since WM didn't support
WebDav. POP3 users of Hotmail and MSN were only targeted to switch to
WebDAV.

You must really love red herrings, considering how many you throw
around.

First you blabbered about IMAP and now WebDav. That shows that you
have no clue what is and what isn't involved in importing existing local
mail.

[Rewind/repeat:]

WM users were never targeted

*If* "WM users were never targeted", then *why*, oh wise one, can WLM
import from a WM Store Folder or from a WM Export [1] [2]!?

Hopefully you like egg and pie.

[More irrelevant drivel deleted.]

Moral: Limit your comments to subject matter which you actually
understand / know something about.

[1]

"Windows Live Mail Import

Import Complete

Your messages were imported in 'Windows Mail' format"

Note *'Windows Mail'*.

[2] And can import existing WM accounts (.iaf)

On 3/11/2018 3:29 AM, HB wrote:
....wiped out OE6. It's still there but will not work anymore. So now I have
a laptop I can't use for email. I don't understand why the hell MS would
give a &^%$ that someone would want to use OE.

And what really eats my lunch is these updates are FORCED on us. Our
choice was taken away.

There has to be a way to stop them, maybe in the regestry. Someone on this
group must know how to stop these updates.

I moved from OE6 to Thunderbird, years ago. Works well.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/thunderbird

Lynn

"HB" wrote in message news

"CRNG" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 09:59:43 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote in

"HB" wrote

| ....wiped out OE6.
| There has to be a way to stop them, maybe in the regestry. Someone on
this
| group must know how to stop these updates.
|

Check out ShutUP10

O&O ShutUp10 means you have full control over which comfort functions
under Windows 10 you wish to use, and you decide when the passing on
of your data goes too far. Using a very simple interface, you decide
how Windows 10 should respect your privacy by deciding which unwanted
functions should be deactivated.

O&O ShutUp10 is entirely free and does not have to be installed - it
can be simply run directly and immediately on your PC. And it will not
install or download retrospectively unwanted or unnecessary software,
like so many other programs do these days!

https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

You have to give your email address for some 15% coupon to download it, but
I never got the conformation email from them.

- snip -

On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 20:46:43 -0400, "
wrote:


"HB" wrote in message news

"CRNG" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 09:59:43 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote in

"HB" wrote

| ....wiped out OE6.
| There has to be a way to stop them, maybe in the regestry. Someone on
this
| group must know how to stop these updates.
|

Check out ShutUP10

O&O ShutUp10 means you have full control over which comfort functions
under Windows 10 you wish to use, and you decide when the passing on
of your data goes too far. Using a very simple interface, you decide
how Windows 10 should respect your privacy by deciding which unwanted
functions should be deactivated.

O&O ShutUp10 is entirely free and does not have to be installed - it
can be simply run directly and immediately on your PC. And it will not
install or download retrospectively unwanted or unnecessary software,
like so many other programs do these days!

https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

You have to give your email address for some 15% coupon to download it, but
I never got the conformation email from them.

- snip -

Use the link above. It's entirely free. You don't have to provide an
email address and there's no need for any coupons because, well, it's
entirely free.

"HB" wrote

| ....wiped out OE6. It's still there but will not work anymore. So now I
have
| a laptop I can't use for email. I don't understand why the hell MS would
| give a &^%$ that someone would want to use OE.
|

Apropos of this, watch out if you decide to try WinMail.
MS intend to open Edge for links clicked in email, regardless
of default browser:

https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/16/1...-default-links

It's generally been a good idea to avoid Microsoft
software in the past, but with Win10 the tie-ins and
lock-ins are becoming more forceful.
And to think that just a few years ago they were
in court over the monopoly strategy of just pre-installing
IE.

On 03/16/2018 01:50 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:

[snip]

I moved from OE6 to Thunderbird, years ago.Â* Works well.
Â*Â* https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/thunderbird

Lynn

When I left OE, Win 98 was the latest version.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Lots of men who would not associate with infidels for fear of
contaminating their characters are not yet out of jail." [Lemuel K.
Washburn, _Is The Bible Worth Reading And Other Essays_, 1911]

"Mark Lloyd" wrote
| On 03/16/2018 01:50 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
|
| I moved from OE6 to Thunderbird, years ago. Works well.
| https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/thunderbird
|

| When I left OE, Win 98 was the latest version.
|

I wonder why people think TB is so much better
than OE. It was designed to be a replacement. OE
lacks some things. Most notably, I can't block remote
images. (That doesn't matter for me, but I help some
people who want to enable HTML email.)

On the other hand, I can't read the source in TB
unless I save the file out. I have to set outgoing
servers in a different place from incoming servers,
which can be very confusing for inexpreienced
people. TB is extremely pushy about wanting me to
use their halfwit "wizard" to set up my accounts...

There are various small problems with each, but
essentially they're the same thing.

"Wolf K" wrote

| On the other hand, I can't read the source in TB
| unless I save the file out.

| Ctrl + U
|

Doesn't do me much good. I want it on the right-click.
If I have to remember an incantation, move to the
keyboard, and lift my other hand then it's easier to
just drag it out onto the desktop - right-click -
Open with Notepad.
When I do get it from the main menu it's in what
looks like Times New Roman, with no font option.
I have all font settings I can find set to Verdana,
yet I see TNR.

To be fair, I don't use TB much so I haven't looked
through all the settings. But sometning like default
font should be very obvious and easy.

On 03/17/2018 10:30 AM, Mayayana wrote:

[snip]

On the other hand, I can't read the source in TB
unless I save the file out.

What is "save the file out"? Anyway, to view the message source, press
CTRL-U, or use the View menu, "Message Source".

I have to set outgoing
servers in a different place from incoming servers,
which can be very confusing for inexpreienced
people.

Of course I didn't STAY inexperienced too long. Anyway, that one wasn't
hard to figure out.

TB is extremely pushy about wanting me to
use their halfwit "wizard" to set up my accounts...

When they started that wizard, it would mess up for me. It had been much
easier to enter the information manually. The wizard made that a lot
harder. However, the last time I set up TB the wizard worked fine.

There are various small problems with each, but
essentially they're the same thing.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"We have at last ascertained that miracles can be perfectly understood;
that there is nothing mysterious about them; that they are simply
transparent falsehoods." -- Robert Ingersoll

Frank Slootweg wrote:
*If* "WM users were never targeted", then *why*, oh wise one, can WLM
import from a WM Store Folder or from a WM Export [1] [2]!?

Easy..backward compatibility for one single purpose. Import the mail for
move or copy to an MSA account(fka Live/Hotmail/MSn.com)
- Did you not see the request to setup an email account on first use
of WLM? Guess which one was design intent. - Live.com, Hotmail.com,
Msn.com.


Moral: Limit your comments to subject matter which you actually
understand / know something about.

The irrelevant drivel is from your position. Having had direct access
to the developers and marketing groups on the MSFT campus, email and
program group interactions for the entire life of WM and WLM(Windows
Essentials) development programs I'm absolutely positive you are out of
league when comparing understanding and knowledge of WLM, and
Microsoft's intent on 'which users were the target and of importance'[1]
- for use, integration across the Live Essential programs(Mail,
Messenger, PhotoGallery, Spaces/SkyDrive/OneDrive...), telemetry, phone
home(built in under-the-hood-code routine polling), and Cloud usage with
a MSA. The same applies today across Win10 == Microsoft Account

[1] Bottom line....Which users were the target and of importance ? It
wasn't you or anyone holding similar positions.

--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ
msft mvp 2007-2016, insider mvp 2016-2018

....w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
*If* "WM users were never targeted", then *why*, oh wise one, can WLM
import from a WM Store Folder or from a WM Export [1] [2]!?

Easy..backward compatibility

Duh!

for one single purpose. Import the mail for
move or copy to an MSA account(fka Live/Hotmail/MSn.com)

Says *you*, over and over again. Stamping feet may be cute for 3-year
olds, not so much for - presumed - adults.

Bottom line, you stated your *opinion*. We don't give a toss.

- Did you not see the request to setup an email account on first use
of WLM? Guess which one was design intent. - Live.com, Hotmail.com,
Msn.com.

If it was - in your pipe dream - "design intent", then why didn't it
*say* so? It didn't say or imply anything about Live.com, Hotmail.com or
Msn.com. It just said 'Add your email accounts'. Who would have thunk
that, a MUA asking to add email accounts!?

Moral: Limit your comments to subject matter which you actually
understand / know something about.

The irrelevant drivel is from your position. Having had direct access
to the developers and marketing groups on the MSFT campus, email and
program group interactions for the entire life of WM and WLM(Windows
Essentials) development programs I'm absolutely positive you are out of
league when comparing understanding and knowledge of WLM, and
Microsoft's intent on 'which users were the target and of importance'[1]
- for use, integration across the Live Essential programs(Mail,
Messenger, PhotoGallery, Spaces/SkyDrive/OneDrive...), telemetry, phone
home(built in under-the-hood-code routine polling), and Cloud usage with
a MSA. The same applies today across Win10 == Microsoft Account

[1] Bottom line....Which users were the target and of importance ? It
wasn't you or anyone holding similar positions.

A lot of - pompous and rather pathetic - chest-thumping, but
absolutely nothing specific, i.e. no single pointer (URL) to some
Microsoft document which confirms your drivel.

Do you *really* expect people to take your word for it, when you show
time and time again that you don't understand the subject matter and are
dodging each and every argument!?

Anyway, I'm done with this nonsense, so AFAIC, it's EOD.