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#16
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
In article , Tony Cooper
wrote: On Windows XP, I use Irfanview thumbnail-selected batch mode to JPG lossless flip JPEG files and then Irfanview batch mode to shrink JPEG files and then add a canvas and then I use Paint.NET to add captions inside the canvas. That works fine, especially since Paint.NET is one of the best freebie editors on Windows for texting correctly (there are a zillion ways that other editors make texting hard) paint.net does not text, nor does any other image editor. for that, you need a dedicated text messaging app. You could not figure out that a native speaker of a language other the English meant "...for adding text (to an image)"? that's called annotating, not texting. texting has a well defined meaning which is not the same as annotating. Yes. It's obvious he made an error in the choice of his words. What is also obvious is that there was no need to point it out. there was. I agree, there was a need to point it out. The need was to satisfy your child like urge to comment. As you have so often said, "it was "picking on words." He doesn't like it when his are picked on, but jumps in to pick on the word's of others when the wrong one is chosen. says the person who jumps on the words of others, particularly me, going so far to intentionally lie and twist what i say solely to argue and criticize it, just as you are doing here. when others make 'an obvious error', you give them a free pass and then criticize me for doing what you normally do. you're a hypocrite, among other things. |
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#17
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
In message , Tony Cooper
writes: [] He doesn't like it when his are picked on, but jumps in to pick on the word's of others when the wrong one is chosen. WORD'S? (Sorry, couldn't resist.) I would seriously doubt if anyone was confused by the OP's error. I suspect you're right. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf If you're playing a killer monster, be very quiet. - Anthony Hopkins, RT 2016/10/22-28 |
#18
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
In message , Mayayana
writes: [] try saving to JPG and see what you get. If all of your saves are to JPG then you're not dealing with the same image each time, even if you set JPG compression at "100". (Or 0, depending on the software.) JPG always loses data with each save. I've long suspected it to be as you say, but if that _is_ the case, what does the 100% (or 0) actually _mean_? -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf If you're playing a killer monster, be very quiet. - Anthony Hopkins, RT 2016/10/22-28 |
#19
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
On 2017-02-16 00:03:01 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
said: In message , Mayayana writes: [] try saving to JPG and see what you get. If all of your saves are to JPG then you're not dealing with the same image each time, even if you set JPG compression at "100". (Or 0, depending on the software.) JPG always loses data with each save. I've long suspected it to be as you say, but if that _is_ the case, what does the 100% (or 0) actually _mean_? It means that the compression algorithm of whatever software is in use will not apply additional compression beyond the lossyness to be found with each save/resave. Unfortunately, JPEG being what it is, is always going to be subject to a degree of data and IQ loss on each save/resave. Using a 100% or 0% (depending on software) compression setting will still result in data loss, and will more than likely have very visible JPEG compression artifacts present. Do that enough times and add in resizing, the degradation in the JPEG will be unacceptable to all but the least critical eye, even if the file size might have grown. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#20
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
In message 20170215163740260-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck
writes: On 2017-02-16 00:03:01 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" said: In message , Mayayana writes: [] try saving to JPG and see what you get. If all of your saves are to JPG then you're not dealing with the same image each time, even if you set JPG compression at "100". (Or 0, depending on the software.) JPG always loses data with each save. I've long suspected it to be as you say, but if that _is_ the case, what does the 100% (or 0) actually _mean_? It means that the compression algorithm of whatever software is in use will not apply additional compression beyond the lossyness to be found with each save/resave. Unfortunately, JPEG being what it is, is always going to be subject to a degree of data and IQ loss on each save/resave. Using a 100% or 0% (depending on software) compression setting will still result in data loss, and will more than likely have very visible JPEG compression artifacts present. Do that enough times and add in resizing, the degradation in the JPEG will be unacceptable to all but the least critical eye, even if the file size might have grown. So are you saying there are two different _sorts_ of data compression applied when you save a JPEG? -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Science fiction is escape into reality - Arthur C Clarke |
#21
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:54:40 -0500, nospam
wrote: In article , Tony Cooper wrote: On Windows XP, I use Irfanview thumbnail-selected batch mode to JPG lossless flip JPEG files and then Irfanview batch mode to shrink JPEG files and then add a canvas and then I use Paint.NET to add captions inside the canvas. That works fine, especially since Paint.NET is one of the best freebie editors on Windows for texting correctly (there are a zillion ways that other editors make texting hard) paint.net does not text, nor does any other image editor. for that, you need a dedicated text messaging app. You could not figure out that a native speaker of a language other the English meant "...for adding text (to an image)"? that's called annotating, not texting. texting has a well defined meaning which is not the same as annotating. Yes. It's obvious he made an error in the choice of his words. What is also obvious is that there was no need to point it out. there was. I agree, there was a need to point it out. The need was to satisfy your child like urge to comment. As you have so often said, "it was "picking on words." He doesn't like it when his are picked on, but jumps in to pick on the word's of others when the wrong one is chosen. says the person who jumps on the words of others, particularly me, going so far to intentionally lie and twist what i say solely to argue and criticize it, just as you are doing here. when others make 'an obvious error', you give them a free pass and then criticize me for doing what you normally do. Sure. I give non-native speakers of English a free pass*, You should know better. Try responding to the OP in Dutch. *Unless they brag about how good their English is. What lie? What was twisted? -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
#22
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:01:45 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote: In message , Tony Cooper writes: [] He doesn't like it when his are picked on, but jumps in to pick on the word's of others when the wrong one is chosen. WORD'S? (Sorry, couldn't resist.) It's a fair cop, Guv. I would seriously doubt if anyone was confused by the OP's error. I suspect you're right. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
#23
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
On 2017-02-16 01:27:07 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
said: In message 20170215163740260-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck writes: On 2017-02-16 00:03:01 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" said: In message , Mayayana writes: [] try saving to JPG and see what you get. If all of your saves are to JPG then you're not dealing with the same image each time, even if you set JPG compression at "100". (Or 0, depending on the software.) JPG always loses data with each save. I've long suspected it to be as you say, but if that _is_ the case, what does the 100% (or 0) actually _mean_? It means that the compression algorithm of whatever software is in use will not apply additional compression beyond the lossyness to be found with each save/resave. Unfortunately, JPEG being what it is, is always going to be subject to a degree of data and IQ loss on each save/resave. Using a 100% or 0% (depending on software) compression setting will still result in data loss, and will more than likely have very visible JPEG compression artifacts present. Do that enough times and add in resizing, the degradation in the JPEG will be unacceptable to all but the least critical eye, even if the file size might have grown. So are you saying there are two different _sorts_ of data compression applied when you save a JPEG? No. I am saying that whenever you save, resave, or save as a JPEG it is subject to degradation of image quality regardless of the compression settings made in the software. One might not initially detect that compression or image degradation, but it is always there and will be exbacerbated with subsequent saves/resaves/saves as. JPEG files are always lossy. Different software might express how compression is selected differently. Some software might adjust compression by setting alleged quality of the saved JPEG as a percentage of quality; i.e. 100% not meaning that there will be no compression, but just the least compression that particular software is capable of. There will always be compression, it is in the nature of JPEG files which are a lossy format. That is equally true of software which expresses compression or file save quality in other ways, as a percentage of compression, or on a quality scale of 1-10. Compression of any image file saved/resaved/saved as JPEG will always exist. The degree of compression can be adjusted, but the damage and degradation is cumulative for each subsequent JPEG save. If you want to maintain image quality through editing or adjustment start with RAW image files and work on lossless file types such as TIFF, PSD, or even PNG. Only once you are done editing/adjusting a RAW or lossless image file, should you save a JPEG for whatever purpose you had in mind. -- Regards, Savageduck |
#24
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
In article , Tony Cooper
wrote: That works fine, especially since Paint.NET is one of the best freebie editors on Windows for texting correctly (there are a zillion ways that other editors make texting hard) paint.net does not text, nor does any other image editor. for that, you need a dedicated text messaging app. You could not figure out that a native speaker of a language other the English meant "...for adding text (to an image)"? that's called annotating, not texting. texting has a well defined meaning which is not the same as annotating. Yes. It's obvious he made an error in the choice of his words. What is also obvious is that there was no need to point it out. there was. I agree, there was a need to point it out. The need was to satisfy your child like urge to comment. As you have so often said, "it was "picking on words." He doesn't like it when his are picked on, but jumps in to pick on the word's of others when the wrong one is chosen. says the person who jumps on the words of others, particularly me, going so far to intentionally lie and twist what i say solely to argue and criticize it, just as you are doing here. when others make 'an obvious error', you give them a free pass and then criticize me for doing what you normally do. Sure. I give non-native speakers of English a free pass*, You should know better. Try responding to the OP in Dutch. and in fact, i do know better. as usual, you are butting in just to attack. the person in question is a well known troll who lives in the santa cruz mountains and is a native english speaker. he regularly spoofs his address, however, his style is unmistakable and easily outed. both savageduck and myself know him quite well from other newsgroups. *Unless they brag about how good their English is. What lie? What was twisted? everything. |
#25
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
On 2017-02-16 01:48:52 +0000, Tony Cooper said:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:54:40 -0500, nospam wrote: In article , Tony Cooper wrote: On Windows XP, I use Irfanview thumbnail-selected batch mode to JPG lossless flip JPEG files and then Irfanview batch mode to shrink JPEG files and then add a canvas and then I use Paint.NET to add captions inside the canvas. That works fine, especially since Paint.NET is one of the best freebie editors on Windows for texting correctly (there are a zillion ways that other editors make texting hard) paint.net does not text, nor does any other image editor. for that, you need a dedicated text messaging app. You could not figure out that a native speaker of a language other the English meant "...for adding text (to an image)"? that's called annotating, not texting. texting has a well defined meaning which is not the same as annotating. Yes. It's obvious he made an error in the choice of his words. What is also obvious is that there was no need to point it out. there was. I agree, there was a need to point it out. The need was to satisfy your child like urge to comment. As you have so often said, "it was "picking on words." He doesn't like it when his are picked on, but jumps in to pick on the word's of others when the wrong one is chosen. says the person who jumps on the words of others, particularly me, going so far to intentionally lie and twist what i say solely to argue and criticize it, just as you are doing here. when others make 'an obvious error', you give them a free pass and then criticize me for doing what you normally do. Sure. I give non-native speakers of English a free pass*, You should know better. Try responding to the OP in Dutch. The OP is not Dutch. He lives in Santa Clara County, in the hills above San Jose, and claims to have an Ivy League education. He is a well known Nym shifter and ISP falsifier. He can be found voicing his opinion using various nyms in misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.ipad, and comp.mobile.android. Sometimes he is genuinely seeking advice and help, and I am prepared to render whatever advice and assistance I can, until the thread degrades into a troll fest. *Unless they brag about how good their English is. Without claiming Dutch nationality, he has already made that boast in other NG's, along with many other types of unsubstantiated boast. What lie? What was twisted? -- Regards, Savageduck |
#26
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
"PeterN" wrote
| Common use for method of of adding canvas, in Photoshop. | | https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/bluecorps/2015/11/12/adding-more-space-to-your-photoshop-canvas/ | I still don't really get it. It's the term itself. Does it refer to the image as a 2-D space? If I look in PSP I see resizing the canvas. It seems to mean the same as creating a new image and pasting the image onto that, which is what I would do. So when Stijn refers to "adding a canvas" does he mean that -- creating a larger background around the original image? |
#27
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
In article 2017021518133987929-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote: Sure. I give non-native speakers of English a free pass*, You should know better. Try responding to the OP in Dutch. The OP is not Dutch. He lives in Santa Clara County, in the hills above San Jose, and claims to have an Ivy League education. He is a well known Nym shifter and ISP falsifier. He can be found voicing his opinion using various nyms in misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.ipad, and comp.mobile.android. and the numerous (often irrelevant) groups to which he crossposts. Sometimes he is genuinely seeking advice and help, and I am prepared to render whatever advice and assistance I can, until the thread degrades into a troll fest. which is usually rather quickly because he ignores the advice and starts ranting. *Unless they brag about how good their English is. Without claiming Dutch nationality, he has already made that boast in other NG's, along with many other types of unsubstantiated boast. indeed he has. |
#28
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:10:49 -0500, PeterN wrote:
Common use for method of of adding canvas, in Photoshop. https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/bluecorps/2015/11/12/adding-more-space-to-your-photoshop-canvas/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zhrQ1EyoTY Here is an example of an original file, and then the file with a canvas batch added automatically by Irvanview, and then that file annotated in three ways in Paint.NET (which does those three annotations better than any other free program alive that I know of). Please note I'm explaining below all the steps I do with batches of files that contain hundreds upon hundreds of files - but in this particular case, we're only working on a single file. STARTING POINT: 1,439 KB file that was 1,661x2,142 pixels. http://hips.htvapps.com/htv-prod-med...1486597218.jpg 1. This is the original 1,439KB photo that I saved from the above URL: http://i.cubeupload.com/DAZw1N.jpg a. Irfanview: File Open fname.jpg b. Irfanview: File Thumbnails c. Thumbnails: Options Select all d. Thumbnails: File JPG Lossless Operations Lossless rotation with selected files e. Irfanview: File Start batch dialog with selected files f. In the batch dialog, I set the "Options" to resize to 800x600 and to save at 80% Quality (and nothing else). I also set the "Advanced" options to add a white canvas to the bottom. If I want, I can set a trillion other options, but I won't bother explaining them here. Here is a screenshot of the Irfanview "Options": http://i.cubeupload.com/l6gNYt.jpg Here is a screenshot of the Irfanview "Advanced" options: http://i.cubeupload.com/sz8Zar.jpg 2. This is the photo after Irfanview 80% batch resized it to 800x600 & Irfanview added a white canvas to the bottom: http://i.cubeupload.com/qfcHIm.jpg It is now 149 KB. 3. This is the photo after annotating with Paint.NET: http://i.cubeupload.com/wpMEIS.jpg It is now 187 KB. 4. This is the photo re-re-sized by Irfanview at 80% Quality: http://i.cubeupload.com/tYHmt8.jpg It is now 184 KB. Hmmm... again, it didn't show the almost doubling of size I normally see. I think the starting point photo is the difference, since I normally start with my own photos from my own camera, and not with photos from the web! I need to do the test again, but with my own photos! |
#29
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:10:49 -0500, PeterN wrote:
Common use for method of of adding canvas, in Photoshop. https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/bluecorps/2015/11/12/adding-more-space-to-your-photoshop-canvas/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zhrQ1EyoTY Here is an example of an original file, and then the file with a canvas batch added automatically by Irvanview, and then that file annotated in three ways in Paint.NET (which does those three annotations better than any other free program alive that I know of). Please note I'm explaining below all the steps I do with batches of files that contain hundreds upon hundreds of files - but in this particular case, we're only working on a single file. STARTING POINT: 1,439 KB file that was 1,661x2,142 pixels. http://hips.htvapps.com/htv-prod-med...1486597218.jpg 1. This is the original 1,439KB photo that I saved from the above URL: http://i.cubeupload.com/DAZw1N.jpg a. Irfanview: File Open fname.jpg b. Irfanview: File Thumbnails c. Thumbnails: Options Select all d. Thumbnails: File JPG Lossless Operations Lossless rotation with selected files e. Irfanview: File Start batch dialog with selected files f. In the batch dialog, I set the "Options" to resize to 800x600 and to save at 80% Quality (and nothing else). I also set the "Advanced" options to add a white canvas to the bottom. If I want, I can set a trillion other options, but I won't bother explaining them here. Here is a screenshot of the Irfanview "Options": http://i.cubeupload.com/l6gNYt.jpg Here is a screenshot of the Irfanview "Advanced" options: http://i.cubeupload.com/sz8Zar.jpg 2. This is the photo after Irfanview 80% batch resized it to 800x600 & Irfanview added a white canvas to the bottom: http://i.cubeupload.com/qfcHIm.jpg It is now 149 KB. 3. This is the photo after annotating with Paint.NET: http://i.cubeupload.com/wpMEIS.jpg It is now 187 KB. 4. This is the photo re-re-sized by Irfanview at 80% Quality: http://i.cubeupload.com/tYHmt8.jpg It is now 184 KB. Hmmm... again, it didn't show the almost doubling of size I normally see. I think the starting point photo is the difference, since I normally start with my own photos from my own camera, and not with photos from the web! I need to do the test again, but with my own photos! |
#30
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 17:56:19 -0500, Mayayana wrote:
It's interesting that IV seems to have brightened the image saved, while PN didn't. Thank you for noticing that anomaly. I think it's because I have the "Auto adjust colors" option set in Irfanview by default! http://i.cubeupload.com/kB1aI5.jpg |
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