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#31
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Utilities question
On 03/22/2015 05:13 AM, FredW wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 14:01:24 -0700, T wrote: Do you have a view on the effectiveness of CCleaner from Piriform? https://www.piriform.com More trouble than it is worth. I have seen it do more harm than good. When I find it installed, I remove it as part of my junkware clean up. Piriform's unbearably ssssslllloooowww Defraggler seems to be a good product. (There are alternatives.) Do you really compare CCleaner with Defraggler, software with totally different purposes? CCleaner is a very good cleaner, probably the best available. https://www.piriform.com/ccleaner/builds (but use only the cleaner function.) Considering CCleaner as junkware is stupid. Defraggler is one of many programs to defrag a hard drive. You must be clueless when you think they can be compared. Hi Fred, Wow! Is my technical writing that bad? I was not comparing the functionality of the two programs. I was comments on two programs authored by Piriform. One I thought was good; one I thought wasn't. They hit with one and missed with the other. Have I removed the misunderstanding? -T |
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#32
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Utilities question
On 03/22/2015 06:15 AM, FredW wrote:
I am very sorry, but someone who calls CCleaner junkware (to be cleaned up) is clueless to me. Read what I said real closely. I was not calling it junkware. I was just saying I removed it when I removed junkware. |
#33
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Utilities question
On 03/22/2015 06:46 AM, Mayayana wrote:
| I am very sorry, but someone who calls CCleaner junkware (to be cleaned | up) is clueless to me. | I find it mysterious that CCleaner has such a devoted following. The same fervor is displayed every time it's mentioned. Several people have expressed an opinion that such utilities are mostly snake oil, without any disagrement voiced. Yet with the mention of CCleaner the fan club gets angry. On their website they claim to clean up junk files: OK, but Windows can do that.... Delete browser history: Browsers can do that.... Clean the Registry: Risky business that provides no benefit. The logic for Registry cleaners simply doesn't hold water. That topic has been discussed many times before. And that list of functions sounds to me like a dozen other similar "PC tune-up" programs. They all provide the same function: They're equivalent to waxing your car and hanging a new perfumed paper pine tree from the rear view mirror. It won't help your car to run better, but it does provide a sense of having cleaned up and improved one's car. And the benefit is in reverse proportion to one's understanding of cars. The less one knows about mechanics, and the more one projects an animistic personality onto one's car, the better those rituals seem to work and the more one's car seems to appreciate the effort. Great point |
#34
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Utilities question
On 03/22/2015 03:26 PM, Mayayana wrote:
| As I said befo use ONLY the cleaner function of CCleaner. | | Did you ever look or try? I looked today, as I described above. I've never tried it. I didn't see anything listed that made sense, so I see no point in trying it. I don't need a utility to clean files or browser history or Registry settings. (Maybe the latter is not included in what you call "ONLY the cleaner", but you didn't explain that, so I don't know.) | The Slim and the Portable version do not contain crapware. I don't suspect it of containing crapware. I suspect it of being crapware. On the bright side, cleaning temp files and browser history is unlikely to do any harm. I have seen it do more harm than good |
#35
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Utilities question
On 03/22/2015 04:26 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 23:02:19 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote: Declaring CCleaner to be "crapware" is rather akin to thinking you don't need to eat your vegetables. *Please* don't make me eat the broccoli! Hi Gene, That is okay. I will not make you eat broccoli. You are totally safe with me. Really. Absolutely. You are completely safe. You can T r u s t me. Really. -T Now to force feed Gene some asparagus wrapped in kale! Hey, I only said he was safe from broccoli! :-) |
#36
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Utilities question
On 03/22/2015 04:37 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 16:26:00 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch" wrote: On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 23:02:19 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote: Declaring CCleaner to be "crapware" is rather akin to thinking you don't need to eat your vegetables. *Please* don't make me eat the broccoli! I wonder how most broccoli haters, who survive a bout with colon cancer, feel about that most maligned of vegetables after they pay the medical bills? Hi Stormin', There is a certain segment of the population that can smell one of the compounds in broccoli. From what I have heard from one of them, the smell is so revolting, they can't even be in the same room. For the rest of us, three words: broccoli cheese soup! (I make a total comfort food Primal Broccoli Cheese Soup.) -T |
#37
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Utilities question
Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 23:02:19 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote: On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 18:26:55 -0400, "Mayayana" wrote: | As I said befo use ONLY the cleaner function of CCleaner. | | Did you ever look or try? I looked today, as I described above. I've never tried it. I didn't see anything listed that made sense, so I see no point in trying it. I don't need a utility to clean files or browser history or Registry settings. (Maybe the latter is not included in what you call "ONLY the cleaner", but you didn't explain that, so I don't know.) | The Slim and the Portable version do not contain crapware. I don't suspect it of containing crapware. I suspect it of being crapware. On the bright side, cleaning temp files and browser history is unlikely to do any harm. CCleaner's ability to easily and automatically compact the database of each browser we use makes the utility invaluable. Browser database? I'm not sure what that is, but for a moment I thought you mean to say browser cache, but then I remembered that there's no benefit to clearing (or cleaning) browser cache, so that can't be it, either. By scheduling CCleaner to run automatically, every night, on each Windows workstation in my business domain, I have dramatically reduced the amount of computer related complaints from our employees. It might be interesting to silently disable the CCleaner scan on a segment of the computers and compare the results. I suspect you'd see no difference. Declaring CCleaner to be "crapware" is rather akin to thinking you don't need to eat your vegetables. I don't think CCleaner is crapware, but I don't use it myself. I see no need for it. As an example, Firefox uses places.sqlite file. Mine is currently 55,775,232 bytes. That is not the browser cache. On some website, I ran into a "schema" diagram for the Firefox database system. It uses multiple files and the files are interrelated. And they're used for control. As part of supercookies, one of the exploits of those databases, is to jam a large number of visited links into the database, as a means to store cookie-like information. At least one of the databases has a limit defined, and an LRU policy. And that prevents the file from becoming infinite. To do maintenance on those files, you get a copy of sqlite3.exe, and read up on the VACUUM option. But there are warnings that using such an option is not without risks. And "vacuuming" is also discussed in the Firefox bugtracker system, where the staff discuss how they can squeeze in a "vacuum" once in a while, without the user noticing. At least one of those efforts failed, and the design changes to the browser were backed out. The operation was too intrusive. The other useful option for sqlite3.exe is DUMP, which allows you to get a text file with database entries listed in it. That can give you some idea what's stored in each file. That stuff is entirely separate from any cache folders. There is one database file, which records DOM stuff, and is also a supercookie candidate. That file grows when you visit Flash-equipped sites. (webappsstore.sqlite) I've been deleting that one on a regular basis, since I discovered it in Seamonkey. (Since it's not linked to the other files, you can delete that one.) The file on my Firefox cannot grow, because there is no Flash plugin. But since Seamonkey has the Flash plugin, I dump the webappsstore.sqlite every once in a while. Paul |
#38
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Utilities question
T wrote in :
On 03/22/2015 04:37 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote: On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 16:26:00 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch" wrote: On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 23:02:19 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote: Declaring CCleaner to be "crapware" is rather akin to thinking you don't need to eat your vegetables. *Please* don't make me eat the broccoli! I wonder how most broccoli haters, who survive a bout with colon cancer, feel about that most maligned of vegetables after they pay the medical bills? Hi Stormin', There is a certain segment of the population that can smell one of the compounds in broccoli. From what I have heard from one of them, the smell is so revolting, they can't even be in the same room. For the rest of us, three words: broccoli cheese soup! (I make a total comfort food Primal Broccoli Cheese Soup.) -T Ah! A fellow traveler! I happen to like broccoli tremendously, but as far as the negative aspect, I would say the exact same thing about myself. Except with me, the negative aspect is *asparagus*. Asparagus is one of Nature's practical jokes, and a lot of people haven't caught on yet. I know it is because of a certain gene some people have (or don't have) that affects their tastebuds so that they either consider asparagus a succulent, delicious vegetable, or a vegetable that tastes like a wet diaper (that's the category I'm in). Tony |
#39
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Utilities question
On 22 Mar 2015, T wrote in alt.windows7.general:
I have seen it do more harm than good I've seen penicillin do more harm than good. I've seen the Bible do more harm than good. I've seen apples do more harm than good. I've seen cute little puppy dogs do more harm than good. What's your point? |
#40
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Utilities question
On 23/03/2015 5:05 am, Tony wrote:
T wrote in : On 03/22/2015 04:37 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote: On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 16:26:00 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch" wrote: On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 23:02:19 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote: Declaring CCleaner to be "crapware" is rather akin to thinking you don't need to eat your vegetables. *Please* don't make me eat the broccoli! I wonder how most broccoli haters, who survive a bout with colon cancer, feel about that most maligned of vegetables after they pay the medical bills? Hi Stormin', There is a certain segment of the population that can smell one of the compounds in broccoli. From what I have heard from one of them, the smell is so revolting, they can't even be in the same room. For the rest of us, three words: broccoli cheese soup! (I make a total comfort food Primal Broccoli Cheese Soup.) -T Ah! A fellow traveler! I happen to like broccoli tremendously, but as far as the negative aspect, I would say the exact same thing about myself. Except with me, the negative aspect is *asparagus*. Asparagus is one of Nature's practical jokes, and a lot of people haven't caught on yet. I know it is because of a certain gene some people have (or don't have) that affects their tastebuds so that they either consider asparagus a succulent, delicious vegetable, or a vegetable that tastes like a wet diaper (that's the category I'm in). Tony The same applies, of course, to the dreaded sprouts. However, there must be more than one gene involved, because I like asparagus, but hate sprouts and all those things from the same flavour group - cauliflower, broccoli, calabrese, cabbage, etc. I have taught myself to eat uncooked cabbage (cole slaw etc) and calabrese if it is cooked Italian style (flash fried in garlic butter) but the rest are out. The hatred of all things vegetable and "green" is a built in instinct with which we are born to protect the small child from poisoning - and personally, I think we should go with nature and avoid bitter green things like the plague. -- Bob Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England Be nice to your children - they pick the nursing home. |
#41
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Utilities question
| I remembered that there's no benefit to | clearing (or cleaning) browser cache, so that can't be it, either. | I don't know what basis you have for saying that. Maybe you meant benefit for the browser? On Win9x and XP I've found that one of the worst causes of a slow system is a very big IE cache. I don't know why. It seems to be some kind of effect of the generally problematic IE/Explorer tie-in. (I don't know about Vista/7, as I don't know many people using it and know even less people who use IE these days.) Additionally, cache and history can be used as tracking devices, though that's probably not a big issue. Another point worth noting is that cache is, for the most part, an outdated concept. Many sites now assemble a webpage as it's called, changing content, ads, etc in accord with information from cookies and script. Static pages are becoming less common. Even in the case of static pages, the need to cache them is long gone. Likewise with pre-fetching. They're both privacy risks, both take up space and both are irrelevant on a highspeed connection. I set my Pale Moon/FF cache limit to zero and have done for years. |
#42
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Utilities question
Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 23:02:19 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote: On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 18:26:55 -0400, "Mayayana" wrote: | As I said befo use ONLY the cleaner function of CCleaner. | | Did you ever look or try? I looked today, as I described above. I've never tried it. I didn't see anything listed that made sense, so I see no point in trying it. I don't need a utility to clean files or browser history or Registry settings. (Maybe the latter is not included in what you call "ONLY the cleaner", but you didn't explain that, so I don't know.) | The Slim and the Portable version do not contain crapware. I don't suspect it of containing crapware. I suspect it of being crapware. On the bright side, cleaning temp files and browser history is unlikely to do any harm. CCleaner's ability to easily and automatically compact the database of each browser we use makes the utility invaluable. Browser database? I'm not sure what that is, but for a moment I thought you mean to say browser cache, but then I remembered that there's no benefit to clearing (or cleaning) browser cache, so that can't be it, either. By scheduling CCleaner to run automatically, every night, on each Windows workstation in my business domain, I have dramatically reduced the amount of computer related complaints from our employees. It might be interesting to silently disable the CCleaner scan on a segment of the computers and compare the results. I suspect you'd see no difference. Declaring CCleaner to be "crapware" is rather akin to thinking you don't need to eat your vegetables. I don't think CCleaner is crapware, but I don't use it myself. I see no need for it. I've had a couple of incidents here, where a file left in the browser cache, could be "reactivated" the next time the browser ran. I don't know if the browser was checking the file for file type, trying to parse it or something. But I've had just a couple pests, that cleaning out the cache finally stopped them. I've also had an incident on Seamonkey, where something managed to attack the "startupCache.4.little" file, and the file was larger than normal at the time. And no software would normally clean that out. If you delete it, it should be regenerated. Firefox doesn't have one. Paul |
#43
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Utilities question
| Declaring CCleaner to be "crapware" is rather akin to thinking you
don't need to | eat your vegetables. | I've had a couple of incidents here, where a file left in | the browser cache, could be "reactivated" the next time | the browser ran. I don't know if the browser was checking | the file for file type, trying to parse it or something. | But I've had just a couple pests, that cleaning out the cache | finally stopped them. | | I've also had an incident on Seamonkey, where something | managed to attack the "startupCache.4.little" file, and | the file was larger than normal at the time. And no software | would normally clean that out. If you delete it, it should | be regenerated. Firefox doesn't have one. | Sooo... You don't eat vegetables? I'm curious whether pro-Paleo or anti-gluten is the better way to protect one's system from malware... I was once a fruitarian. Does heavy kale use and comfrey tea addiction in the 70s help against system bloat in the 10's?... What if I don't eat brocolli but do use CCleaner on the vegetarian setting? Can I then still have barbecued chicken or must I only eat lean white meat?... It's so confusing. No wonder one needs to be an engineer to understand this technology stuff. |
#44
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Utilities question
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 16:57:54 +0100, FredW
wrote: I am not much in favor of using registry cleaning. I am very much against it. It has no benefit and presents severe risks of causing problems. However the registry cleaner of CCleaner is very mild Yes, I agree. It's much better than the others. and will do no harm. But I disagree with that. The risk of harm with CCleaner's registry cleaner is less than that of others, but it is not zero. I mentioned it mainly because some people see the presence of the Registry function of CCleaner as the main reason to condemn CCleaner. Yes. |
#45
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Utilities question
On 03/23/2015 01:38 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
On 23/03/2015 5:05 am, Tony wrote: T wrote in : On 03/22/2015 04:37 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote: On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 16:26:00 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch" wrote: On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 23:02:19 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote: Declaring CCleaner to be "crapware" is rather akin to thinking you don't need to eat your vegetables. *Please* don't make me eat the broccoli! I wonder how most broccoli haters, who survive a bout with colon cancer, feel about that most maligned of vegetables after they pay the medical bills? Hi Stormin', There is a certain segment of the population that can smell one of the compounds in broccoli. From what I have heard from one of them, the smell is so revolting, they can't even be in the same room. For the rest of us, three words: broccoli cheese soup! (I make a total comfort food Primal Broccoli Cheese Soup.) -T Ah! A fellow traveler! I happen to like broccoli tremendously, but as far as the negative aspect, I would say the exact same thing about myself. Except with me, the negative aspect is *asparagus*. Asparagus is one of Nature's practical jokes, and a lot of people haven't caught on yet. I know it is because of a certain gene some people have (or don't have) that affects their tastebuds so that they either consider asparagus a succulent, delicious vegetable, or a vegetable that tastes like a wet diaper (that's the category I'm in). Tony The same applies, of course, to the dreaded sprouts. However, there must be more than one gene involved, because I like asparagus, but hate sprouts and all those things from the same flavour group - cauliflower, broccoli, calabrese, cabbage, etc. I have taught myself to eat uncooked cabbage (cole slaw etc) and calabrese if it is cooked Italian style (flash fried in garlic butter) but the rest are out. The hatred of all things vegetable and "green" is a built in instinct with which we are born to protect the small child from poisoning - and personally, I think we should go with nature and avoid bitter green things like the plague. And, our tastes change as we age. When my mom tried to feed me asparagus as kid, I literally though she was trying to kill me. It was quite frightening. Now I eat asparagus raw while I am trying to cook it (fry with olive oil and garlic powder). Broccoli is a delicacy for me (butter, cheese, onion powder). I never could get with kale. Tastes like penicillin flavored oak leaves (like medical waste). |
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