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  #31  
Old March 23rd 15, 02:08 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
T
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Posts: 4,600
Default Utilities question

On 03/22/2015 05:13 AM, FredW wrote:
On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 14:01:24 -0700, T wrote:

Do you have a view on the effectiveness of CCleaner from Piriform?

https://www.piriform.com


More trouble than it is worth. I have seen it do more harm than
good. When I find it installed, I remove it as part of my
junkware clean up.

Piriform's unbearably ssssslllloooowww Defraggler seems to
be a good product. (There are alternatives.)



Do you really compare CCleaner with Defraggler,
software with totally different purposes?

CCleaner is a very good cleaner, probably the best available.
https://www.piriform.com/ccleaner/builds
(but use only the cleaner function.)
Considering CCleaner as junkware is stupid.

Defraggler is one of many programs to defrag a hard drive.

You must be clueless when you think they can be compared.


Hi Fred,

Wow! Is my technical writing that bad?

I was not comparing the functionality of the two
programs. I was comments on two programs authored
by Piriform. One I thought was good; one I thought
wasn't. They hit with one and missed with the other.

Have I removed the misunderstanding?

-T
Ads
  #32  
Old March 23rd 15, 02:09 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
T
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Posts: 4,600
Default Utilities question

On 03/22/2015 06:15 AM, FredW wrote:
I am very sorry, but someone who calls CCleaner junkware (to be cleaned
up) is clueless to me.


Read what I said real closely. I was not calling it junkware.
I was just saying I removed it when I removed junkware.

  #33  
Old March 23rd 15, 02:10 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,600
Default Utilities question

On 03/22/2015 06:46 AM, Mayayana wrote:
| I am very sorry, but someone who calls CCleaner junkware (to be cleaned
| up) is clueless to me.
|

I find it mysterious that CCleaner has such a
devoted following. The same fervor is displayed
every time it's mentioned. Several people have
expressed an opinion that such utilities are mostly
snake oil, without any disagrement voiced. Yet
with the mention of CCleaner the fan club gets
angry.

On their website they claim to clean up junk files:
OK, but Windows can do that.... Delete browser
history: Browsers can do that.... Clean the Registry:
Risky business that provides no benefit. The logic
for Registry cleaners simply doesn't hold water. That
topic has been discussed many times before. And that
list of functions sounds to me like a dozen other similar
"PC tune-up" programs. They all provide the same
function: They're equivalent to waxing your car and
hanging a new perfumed paper pine tree from the
rear view mirror. It won't help your car to run better,
but it does provide a sense of having cleaned up and
improved one's car. And the benefit is in reverse
proportion to one's understanding of cars. The less
one knows about mechanics, and the more one projects
an animistic personality onto one's car, the better those
rituals seem to work and the more one's car seems to
appreciate the effort.



Great point
  #34  
Old March 23rd 15, 02:11 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
T
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Posts: 4,600
Default Utilities question

On 03/22/2015 03:26 PM, Mayayana wrote:
| As I said befo use ONLY the cleaner function of CCleaner.
|
| Did you ever look or try?

I looked today, as I described above. I've never
tried it. I didn't see anything listed that made sense,
so I see no point in trying it. I don't need a utility
to clean files or browser history or Registry settings.
(Maybe the latter is not included in what you call
"ONLY the cleaner", but you didn't explain that, so
I don't know.)

| The Slim and the Portable version do not contain crapware.

I don't suspect it of containing crapware.
I suspect it of being crapware. On the bright
side, cleaning temp files and browser history
is unlikely to do any harm.


I have seen it do more harm than good


  #35  
Old March 23rd 15, 02:14 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,600
Default Utilities question

On 03/22/2015 04:26 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 23:02:19 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:

Declaring CCleaner to be "crapware" is rather akin to thinking you don't need to
eat your vegetables.


*Please* don't make me eat the broccoli!


Hi Gene,

That is okay. I will not make you eat broccoli. You
are totally safe with me. Really. Absolutely. You
are completely safe. You can T r u s t me.

Really.

-T

Now to force feed Gene some asparagus wrapped in kale!
Hey, I only said he was safe from broccoli!

:-)
  #36  
Old March 23rd 15, 02:45 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
T
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Posts: 4,600
Default Utilities question

On 03/22/2015 04:37 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 16:26:00 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 23:02:19 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:

Declaring CCleaner to be "crapware" is rather akin to thinking you don't need to
eat your vegetables.


*Please* don't make me eat the broccoli!


I wonder how most broccoli haters, who survive a bout with colon cancer, feel
about that most maligned of vegetables after they pay the medical bills?



Hi Stormin',

There is a certain segment of the population that
can smell one of the compounds in broccoli. From
what I have heard from one of them, the smell is
so revolting, they can't even be in the same room.

For the rest of us, three words: broccoli
cheese soup! (I make a total comfort food Primal
Broccoli Cheese Soup.)

-T
  #37  
Old March 23rd 15, 03:06 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul
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Posts: 18,275
Default Utilities question

Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 23:02:19 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 18:26:55 -0400, "Mayayana" wrote:

| As I said befo use ONLY the cleaner function of CCleaner.
|
| Did you ever look or try?

I looked today, as I described above. I've never
tried it. I didn't see anything listed that made sense,
so I see no point in trying it. I don't need a utility
to clean files or browser history or Registry settings.
(Maybe the latter is not included in what you call
"ONLY the cleaner", but you didn't explain that, so
I don't know.)

| The Slim and the Portable version do not contain crapware.

I don't suspect it of containing crapware.
I suspect it of being crapware. On the bright
side, cleaning temp files and browser history
is unlikely to do any harm.


CCleaner's ability to easily and automatically compact the database of each
browser we use makes the utility invaluable.


Browser database? I'm not sure what that is, but for a moment I thought you
mean to say browser cache, but then I remembered that there's no benefit to
clearing (or cleaning) browser cache, so that can't be it, either.

By scheduling CCleaner to run automatically, every night, on each Windows
workstation in my business domain, I have dramatically reduced the amount of
computer related complaints from our employees.


It might be interesting to silently disable the CCleaner scan on a segment
of the computers and compare the results. I suspect you'd see no difference.

Declaring CCleaner to be "crapware" is rather akin to thinking you don't need to
eat your vegetables.


I don't think CCleaner is crapware, but I don't use it myself. I see no need
for it.


As an example, Firefox uses places.sqlite file.
Mine is currently 55,775,232 bytes.

That is not the browser cache.

On some website, I ran into a "schema" diagram for the
Firefox database system. It uses multiple files
and the files are interrelated. And they're used
for control.

As part of supercookies, one of the exploits of those
databases, is to jam a large number of visited links
into the database, as a means to store cookie-like
information. At least one of the databases has
a limit defined, and an LRU policy. And that prevents
the file from becoming infinite.

To do maintenance on those files, you get a copy
of sqlite3.exe, and read up on the VACUUM option.
But there are warnings that using such an option
is not without risks. And "vacuuming" is also discussed
in the Firefox bugtracker system, where the staff
discuss how they can squeeze in a "vacuum" once in
a while, without the user noticing. At least
one of those efforts failed, and the design changes
to the browser were backed out. The operation
was too intrusive.

The other useful option for sqlite3.exe is DUMP, which
allows you to get a text file with database entries
listed in it. That can give you some idea what's stored
in each file.

That stuff is entirely separate from any cache folders.

There is one database file, which records DOM stuff,
and is also a supercookie candidate. That file
grows when you visit Flash-equipped sites. (webappsstore.sqlite)
I've been deleting that one on a regular basis, since
I discovered it in Seamonkey. (Since it's not linked
to the other files, you can delete that one.) The file on
my Firefox cannot grow, because there is no Flash plugin.
But since Seamonkey has the Flash plugin, I dump the
webappsstore.sqlite every once in a while.

Paul
  #38  
Old March 23rd 15, 06:05 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Tony
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 92
Default Utilities question

T wrote in :

On 03/22/2015 04:37 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 16:26:00 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 23:02:19 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:

Declaring CCleaner to be "crapware" is rather akin to thinking you
don't need to eat your vegetables.

*Please* don't make me eat the broccoli!


I wonder how most broccoli haters, who survive a bout with colon
cancer, feel about that most maligned of vegetables after they pay
the medical bills?



Hi Stormin',

There is a certain segment of the population that
can smell one of the compounds in broccoli. From
what I have heard from one of them, the smell is
so revolting, they can't even be in the same room.

For the rest of us, three words: broccoli
cheese soup! (I make a total comfort food Primal
Broccoli Cheese Soup.)

-T


Ah! A fellow traveler! I happen to like broccoli tremendously, but as
far as the negative aspect, I would say the exact same thing about
myself. Except with me, the negative aspect is *asparagus*. Asparagus
is one of Nature's practical jokes, and a lot of people haven't caught on
yet. I know it is because of a certain gene some people have (or don't
have) that affects their tastebuds so that they either consider asparagus
a succulent, delicious vegetable, or a vegetable that tastes like a wet
diaper (that's the category I'm in).

Tony
  #39  
Old March 23rd 15, 06:43 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Nil[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,731
Default Utilities question

On 22 Mar 2015, T wrote in alt.windows7.general:

I have seen it do more harm than good


I've seen penicillin do more harm than good. I've seen the Bible do
more harm than good. I've seen apples do more harm than good. I've seen
cute little puppy dogs do more harm than good.

What's your point?
  #40  
Old March 23rd 15, 09:38 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Bob Henson[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 695
Default Utilities question

On 23/03/2015 5:05 am, Tony wrote:
T wrote in :

On 03/22/2015 04:37 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 16:26:00 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 23:02:19 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:

Declaring CCleaner to be "crapware" is rather akin to thinking you
don't need to eat your vegetables.

*Please* don't make me eat the broccoli!

I wonder how most broccoli haters, who survive a bout with colon
cancer, feel about that most maligned of vegetables after they pay
the medical bills?



Hi Stormin',

There is a certain segment of the population that
can smell one of the compounds in broccoli. From
what I have heard from one of them, the smell is
so revolting, they can't even be in the same room.

For the rest of us, three words: broccoli
cheese soup! (I make a total comfort food Primal
Broccoli Cheese Soup.)

-T


Ah! A fellow traveler! I happen to like broccoli tremendously, but as
far as the negative aspect, I would say the exact same thing about
myself. Except with me, the negative aspect is *asparagus*. Asparagus
is one of Nature's practical jokes, and a lot of people haven't caught on
yet. I know it is because of a certain gene some people have (or don't
have) that affects their tastebuds so that they either consider asparagus
a succulent, delicious vegetable, or a vegetable that tastes like a wet
diaper (that's the category I'm in).

Tony


The same applies, of course, to the dreaded sprouts. However, there must
be more than one gene involved, because I like asparagus, but hate
sprouts and all those things from the same flavour group - cauliflower,
broccoli, calabrese, cabbage, etc. I have taught myself to eat uncooked
cabbage (cole slaw etc) and calabrese if it is cooked Italian style
(flash fried in garlic butter) but the rest are out. The hatred of all
things vegetable and "green" is a built in instinct with which we are
born to protect the small child from poisoning - and personally, I
think we should go with nature and avoid bitter green things like the
plague.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

Be nice to your children - they pick the nursing home.
  #41  
Old March 23rd 15, 02:04 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Utilities question


| I remembered that there's no benefit to
| clearing (or cleaning) browser cache, so that can't be it, either.
|

I don't know what basis you have for saying that.
Maybe you meant benefit for the browser?
On Win9x and XP I've found that one of the worst
causes of a slow system is a very big IE cache. I
don't know why. It seems to be some kind of effect
of the generally problematic IE/Explorer tie-in. (I
don't know about Vista/7, as I don't know many people
using it and know even less people who use IE these
days.)

Additionally, cache and history can be used as
tracking devices, though that's probably not a big
issue.

Another point worth noting is that cache is, for
the most part, an outdated concept. Many sites
now assemble a webpage as it's called, changing
content, ads, etc in accord with information from
cookies and script. Static pages are becoming less
common. Even in the case of static pages, the need
to cache them is long gone. Likewise with pre-fetching.
They're both privacy risks, both take up space and
both are irrelevant on a highspeed connection.

I set my Pale Moon/FF cache limit to zero and
have done for years.


  #42  
Old March 23rd 15, 02:43 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default Utilities question

Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 23:02:19 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 18:26:55 -0400, "Mayayana" wrote:

| As I said befo use ONLY the cleaner function of CCleaner.
|
| Did you ever look or try?

I looked today, as I described above. I've never
tried it. I didn't see anything listed that made sense,
so I see no point in trying it. I don't need a utility
to clean files or browser history or Registry settings.
(Maybe the latter is not included in what you call
"ONLY the cleaner", but you didn't explain that, so
I don't know.)

| The Slim and the Portable version do not contain crapware.

I don't suspect it of containing crapware.
I suspect it of being crapware. On the bright
side, cleaning temp files and browser history
is unlikely to do any harm.


CCleaner's ability to easily and automatically compact the database of each
browser we use makes the utility invaluable.


Browser database? I'm not sure what that is, but for a moment I thought you
mean to say browser cache, but then I remembered that there's no benefit to
clearing (or cleaning) browser cache, so that can't be it, either.

By scheduling CCleaner to run automatically, every night, on each Windows
workstation in my business domain, I have dramatically reduced the amount of
computer related complaints from our employees.


It might be interesting to silently disable the CCleaner scan on a segment
of the computers and compare the results. I suspect you'd see no difference.

Declaring CCleaner to be "crapware" is rather akin to thinking you don't need to
eat your vegetables.


I don't think CCleaner is crapware, but I don't use it myself. I see no need
for it.


I've had a couple of incidents here, where a file left in
the browser cache, could be "reactivated" the next time
the browser ran. I don't know if the browser was checking
the file for file type, trying to parse it or something.
But I've had just a couple pests, that cleaning out the cache
finally stopped them.

I've also had an incident on Seamonkey, where something
managed to attack the "startupCache.4.little" file, and
the file was larger than normal at the time. And no software
would normally clean that out. If you delete it, it should
be regenerated. Firefox doesn't have one.

Paul
  #43  
Old March 23rd 15, 03:37 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Utilities question

| Declaring CCleaner to be "crapware" is rather akin to thinking you
don't need to
| eat your vegetables.

| I've had a couple of incidents here, where a file left in
| the browser cache, could be "reactivated" the next time
| the browser ran. I don't know if the browser was checking
| the file for file type, trying to parse it or something.
| But I've had just a couple pests, that cleaning out the cache
| finally stopped them.
|
| I've also had an incident on Seamonkey, where something
| managed to attack the "startupCache.4.little" file, and
| the file was larger than normal at the time. And no software
| would normally clean that out. If you delete it, it should
| be regenerated. Firefox doesn't have one.
|

Sooo... You don't eat vegetables? I'm curious whether
pro-Paleo or anti-gluten is the better way to protect
one's system from malware... I was once a fruitarian.
Does heavy kale use and comfrey tea addiction in the
70s help against system bloat in the 10's?... What if I
don't eat brocolli but do use CCleaner on the vegetarian
setting? Can I then still have barbecued chicken or must
I only eat lean white meat?... It's so confusing. No wonder
one needs to be an engineer to understand this technology
stuff.


  #44  
Old March 23rd 15, 07:10 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,318
Default Utilities question

On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 16:57:54 +0100, FredW
wrote:


I am not much in favor of using registry cleaning.



I am very much against it. It has no benefit and presents severe risks
of causing problems.


However the registry cleaner of CCleaner is very mild



Yes, I agree. It's much better than the others.


and will do no harm.



But I disagree with that. The risk of harm with CCleaner's registry
cleaner is less than that of others, but it is not zero.



I mentioned it mainly because some people see the presence of the
Registry function of CCleaner as the main reason to condemn CCleaner.



Yes.

  #45  
Old March 23rd 15, 07:18 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,600
Default Utilities question

On 03/23/2015 01:38 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
On 23/03/2015 5:05 am, Tony wrote:
T wrote in :

On 03/22/2015 04:37 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 16:26:00 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 23:02:19 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:

Declaring CCleaner to be "crapware" is rather akin to thinking you
don't need to eat your vegetables.

*Please* don't make me eat the broccoli!

I wonder how most broccoli haters, who survive a bout with colon
cancer, feel about that most maligned of vegetables after they pay
the medical bills?



Hi Stormin',

There is a certain segment of the population that
can smell one of the compounds in broccoli. From
what I have heard from one of them, the smell is
so revolting, they can't even be in the same room.

For the rest of us, three words: broccoli
cheese soup! (I make a total comfort food Primal
Broccoli Cheese Soup.)

-T


Ah! A fellow traveler! I happen to like broccoli tremendously, but as
far as the negative aspect, I would say the exact same thing about
myself. Except with me, the negative aspect is *asparagus*. Asparagus
is one of Nature's practical jokes, and a lot of people haven't caught on
yet. I know it is because of a certain gene some people have (or don't
have) that affects their tastebuds so that they either consider asparagus
a succulent, delicious vegetable, or a vegetable that tastes like a wet
diaper (that's the category I'm in).

Tony


The same applies, of course, to the dreaded sprouts. However, there must
be more than one gene involved, because I like asparagus, but hate
sprouts and all those things from the same flavour group - cauliflower,
broccoli, calabrese, cabbage, etc. I have taught myself to eat uncooked
cabbage (cole slaw etc) and calabrese if it is cooked Italian style
(flash fried in garlic butter) but the rest are out. The hatred of all
things vegetable and "green" is a built in instinct with which we are
born to protect the small child from poisoning - and personally, I
think we should go with nature and avoid bitter green things like the
plague.



And, our tastes change as we age. When my mom tried to feed
me asparagus as kid, I literally though she was trying to
kill me. It was quite frightening. Now I eat asparagus raw
while I am trying to cook it (fry with olive oil and garlic
powder).

Broccoli is a delicacy for me (butter, cheese, onion powder).

I never could get with kale. Tastes like penicillin flavored
oak leaves (like medical waste).
 




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