If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Rate Thread | Display Modes |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
"Bootmgr is Missing" Question
Hi, Gene.
My impression is that the boot loader resides on the System partition. Yes, the "boot" versus "system" labels are counterintuitive - and have been for a very long time, maybe longer than Microsoft has been around. But things are much clearer for me since I got the terms straightened out in my head. Now, the only time they confuse me is when some poster reverses them. To keep them straight in my mind, I memorized the line from Ed Bott and other writers: "Those unfamiliar with such terms might think it strange that we BOOT from the SYSTEM partition and keep the operating SYSTEM files in the BOOT volume." (I added the emphases.) For years, I referred to KB 314470, but Microsoft re-wrote that after WinXP and changed a lot of the language. You can still read the information he http://smallbusiness.support.microso...n-us/kb/314470, but you'll need to remember that it was written for WinXP. Post-XP, of course, we no longer use NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini, except in a dual-boot configuration, where they are retained and used ONLY when booting into a pre-Vista Windows. As the article says, "The system volume can be the same volume as the boot volume. However, this configuration is not required." This means that the SYSTEM partition MUST BE a Primary Partition, marked Active and on the device currently designated in the BIOS as the boot device; in Win7 and later this might (or might not) be the reserved partition with no "drive" letter. The BOOT volume can be any volume (primary partition or logical drive in an extended partition) on any HDD in the computer. (For my new 120 GB SSD, I created a 10 GB partition, marked it Active, and made it the System partition, assigning it Drive letter Z:. Then I let Win8 make the rest of the SSD my Boot Volume, format it, assign the letter C: and put the full C:\Windows folder tree there.) My computer is quite happy with Disk 0, Partition 1 (Drive Z as the System Partition and Disk 0, Partition 2 (Drive C as the Boot Volume. And WinXP SP3's Boot Volume is still Disk 1, Partition 3 (Drive Q, but I haven't booted into that in months. RC -- R. C. White, CPA San Marcos, TX Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010) Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3508.0205) in Win8.1 Pro "Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message ... On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 12:33:41 -0600, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 03:11:02 -0500, "...winston" wrote: Char Jackson wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 22:26:27 +0000 (UTC), Dave wrote: I'm glad all you folks can offer such helpful advice when we really know nothing about what is going on: 1. What was the original hd layout. My Dell has a small Dell utility partition, a recovery partition then the main os partition, which I later split. The machine boots to the recovery partition (marked active) What's the purpose of booting to a recovery partition? The bootloader is on the Recovery Partition which includes the instructions to load Windows. It also provides the ability to use the F8 option to recover to factory condition. Interesting, thanks. Like the OP, I also have a Dell, but the bootloader apparently wasn't on the recovery partition because I blew that partition away without causing any boot issues. My impression is that the boot loader resides on the System partition. Or do I meant the Boot partition? Probably not, but Microsoft's nomenclature is confusing in this area. It's not of any day-to-day importance to me, so I don't bother to keep it straight... Either way, not the Recovery partition. -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
Ads |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
"Bootmgr is Missing" Question
Jackson wrote:
Greetings, My friend picked up a nasty virus so he wiped the drive and tried to reinstall Win7. Now he's getting the dreaded "Bootmgr is Missing" error when trying to install Win7 again so it won't even load. I've searched that it can be repaired but I'm wondering if it can be repaired/restored from the WIN7 disc before attempting to install the OS. Can't seem to find the answer. Thanks. Just wanted to let you all know that bootrec /fixboot did the trick from the repair command prompt. Thank you all for your suggestions. You guys are great. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
"Bootmgr is Missing" Question
Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 12:33:41 -0600, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 03:11:02 -0500, "...winston" wrote: Char Jackson wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 22:26:27 +0000 (UTC), Dave wrote: I'm glad all you folks can offer such helpful advice when we really know nothing about what is going on: 1. What was the original hd layout. My Dell has a small Dell utility partition, a recovery partition then the main os partition, which I later split. The machine boots to the recovery partition (marked active) What's the purpose of booting to a recovery partition? The bootloader is on the Recovery Partition which includes the instructions to load Windows. It also provides the ability to use the F8 option to recover to factory condition. Interesting, thanks. Like the OP, I also have a Dell, but the bootloader apparently wasn't on the recovery partition because I blew that partition away without causing any boot issues. My impression is that the boot loader resides on the System partition. Or do I meant the Boot partition? Probably not, but Microsoft's nomenclature is confusing in this area. It's not of any day-to-day importance to me, so I don't bother to keep it straight... Either way, not the Recovery partition. RC covered the under-the-hood explanation. On that Dell...the Recovery Partition is also the System Partition and the Active Partition. - i.e. all the tools provided by Windows and Dell reside in the same location. -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
"Bootmgr is Missing" Question
On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 22:15:07 -0500, "...winston"
wrote: Gene E. Bloch wrote: On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 12:33:41 -0600, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 03:11:02 -0500, "...winston" wrote: Char Jackson wrote: On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 22:26:27 +0000 (UTC), Dave wrote: I'm glad all you folks can offer such helpful advice when we really know nothing about what is going on: 1. What was the original hd layout. My Dell has a small Dell utility partition, a recovery partition then the main os partition, which I later split. The machine boots to the recovery partition (marked active) What's the purpose of booting to a recovery partition? The bootloader is on the Recovery Partition which includes the instructions to load Windows. It also provides the ability to use the F8 option to recover to factory condition. Interesting, thanks. Like the OP, I also have a Dell, but the bootloader apparently wasn't on the recovery partition because I blew that partition away without causing any boot issues. My impression is that the boot loader resides on the System partition. Or do I meant the Boot partition? Probably not, but Microsoft's nomenclature is confusing in this area. It's not of any day-to-day importance to me, so I don't bother to keep it straight... Either way, not the Recovery partition. RC covered the under-the-hood explanation. On that Dell...the Recovery Partition is also the System Partition and the Active Partition. - i.e. all the tools provided by Windows and Dell reside in the same location. On my Dell, the Recovery partition was just the Recovery partition. The Boot/System partition is separate. On the other guy's Dell, if the Recovery partition is also the System partition, why would a person say they boot to the Recovery partition? I'd say they boot to the System partition. -- Char Jackson |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
"Boomer is Missing" Question
"R. C. White" wrote in message news:iK6dnU3Sg Just like "the good old days" when there was only one disk with only one partition. EVERYTHING was in Drive C: (letters A: and B: were reserved for floppy disks). But then we learned how to use multiple disks and to create multiple partitions on each disk and... And it has been getting more complex ever since. ;} I recall (quite some time ago) an 'early Windows 7 adopter' educating me on the purpose, differences and nomenclature involved in the System and Boot volumes. Now we've even more variation as hardware has evolved to support EFI, UEFI with GPT. - System Partition, MSR (Microsoft Reserved), Boot Partition and with the option for a Recovery Partition for Windows RE. RE throws in some more variation since its tools can be installed in the System, Boot (Windows), or a separate Recovery Partition provided sufficient free hard drive space is present in the desired location. If RE is installed in the System Partition then additional constraints come into play (located before all user partitions, sufficient space for the RE tools. When installed on its own partition those same requirements change. -- ....Winston p.s. Thanks for that earlier education! |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
"Bootmgr is Missing" Question
Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 22:15:07 -0500, "...winston" On that Dell...the Recovery Partition is also the System Partition and the Active Partition. - i.e. all the tools provided by Windows and Dell reside in the same location. On my Dell, the Recovery partition was just the Recovery partition. The Boot/System partition is separate. On the other guy's Dell, if the Recovery partition is also the System partition, why would a person say they boot to the Recovery partition? I'd say they boot to the System partition. That would be accurate...though I'd probably allow some flexibility to conformance if the person's intent at the time was to use the Recovery partition for recovery of one sort or another. Especially if guiding someone via 'how to' it would seem appropriate to instruct them to boot to the Recovery Partition. With respect to your Dell and being able to blow away the Recovery Partition - I've seen both configurations. Recovery in the System and Recovery stand-alone. With the advent of GPT it becomes even more complex (confusing) the builder can place Windows RE (Recovery) tools on the System, Boot, or the Recovery Partition. -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
"Bootmgr is Missing" Question
"R. C. White" wrote in message
... Hi, Winston. Just like "the good old days" when there was only one disk with only one partition. EVERYTHING was in Drive C: (letters A: and B: were reserved for floppy disks). But then we learned how to use multiple disks and to create multiple partitions on each disk and... And it has been getting more complex ever since. ;} I recall (quite some time ago) an 'early Windows 7 adopter' educating me on the purpose, differences and nomenclature involved in the System and Boot volumes. Now we've even more variation as hardware has evolved to support EFI, UEFI with GPT. - System Partition, MSR (Microsoft Reserved), Boot Partition and with the option for a Recovery Partition for Windows RE. RE throws in some more variation since its tools can be installed in the System, Boot (Windows), or a separate Recovery Partition provided sufficient free hard drive space is present in the desired location. If RE is installed in the System Partition then additional constraints come into play (located before all user partitions, sufficient space for the RE tools. When installed on its own partition those same requirements change. p.s. RC, thanks for that earlier education...it's come in quite handy since then. p.p.s. Ignore that other post...missed my spell checker changing the subject - 'Bootmgr to Boomer' g -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
"Bootmgr is Missing" Question
Hi, Winston.
Yes, I was curious about your "Boomer is Missing" post. My first thought was "Boomer! Sooner!" ;^} You caught up quickly on those multiple partitions, and then zoomed on ahead into the UEFI and Win7/8 changes. After getting comfy with the WinNT4 to WinXP system, it took me a "generation" to transition to Vista's BCD system. When Win7 introduced the new partition arrangement, I didn't bother to learn it very well; I just kept using the multiple partitions on multiple drives that I had learned when I first started dual-booting with WinNT4/Windows 95 back in '98. Each of my bootable HDDs has a small (10 GB is SMALL?) primary partition as a System Partition, with the rest of the disk in an extended partition divided into multiple logical drives. These logical drives get deleted/recreated/reformatted/renamed/re-lettered from time to time. This was especially true during the years of beta-testing Vista and Win7. Since my MVP days are over, I haven't been as energetic in creating and maintaining all those drives. (I'm using only 16 drive letters now. g With 4 internal HDDs, a 3 TB USB3 external disk, booting mostly from a 120 GB SSD. Plus removable USB sticks and SD cards now and then.) My year-old mobo does have UEFI and I did have to learn enough about GPT to access the full 3 TB, but that was a one-time exercise - which I'd have to relearn to do it again. But I haven't bought a pre-configured computer in over 20 years so I have never used Microsoft's new partition scheme. All this discussion of the Recovery Partition and such (like special partitions from Dell, HP, etc.) simply goes over my head. (What's Windows RE? Recovery Environment?) When I need to know all that, I know whom to ask. ;) Happy Thanksgiving! This morning we had our first mild freeze, about 29 degrees. RC -- R. C. White, CPA San Marcos, TX Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010) Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3508.0205) in Win8.1 Pro "...winston" wrote in message ... "R. C. White" wrote in message ... Hi, Winston. Just like "the good old days" when there was only one disk with only one partition. EVERYTHING was in Drive C: (letters A: and B: were reserved for floppy disks). But then we learned how to use multiple disks and to create multiple partitions on each disk and... And it has been getting more complex ever since. ;} I recall (quite some time ago) an 'early Windows 7 adopter' educating me on the purpose, differences and nomenclature involved in the System and Boot volumes. Now we've even more variation as hardware has evolved to support EFI, UEFI with GPT. - System Partition, MSR (Microsoft Reserved), Boot Partition and with the option for a Recovery Partition for Windows RE. RE throws in some more variation since its tools can be installed in the System, Boot (Windows), or a separate Recovery Partition provided sufficient free hard drive space is present in the desired location. If RE is installed in the System Partition then additional constraints come into play (located before all user partitions, sufficient space for the RE tools. When installed on its own partition those same requirements change. p.s. RC, thanks for that earlier education...it's come in quite handy since then. p.p.s. Ignore that other post...missed my spell checker changing the subject - 'Bootmgr to Boomer' g -- ...winston |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
"Bootmgr is Missing" Question
Hi RC,
Happy Thanksgiving (belated) to you also....snow here too. I was primarily a replaceable drive user for the o/s with a second internal data drive. There were occasional forays into the multiple partitions mostly for dual/triple booting. Once I gave up XP that need dissipated rapidly. Currently I've a 1TB and 2 TB (both SATA6) in this UEFI i7-4770 Z87 Sabertooth running Win7 Pro Sp1 64-bit. The 2TB first primary partition (250GB) is empty with the balance for data and images. Everything from both drives is backed up externally. One of these days I might get around to wiping the 2TB, disconnecting the 1TB power and Sata connector and installing Win8.1 Pro using GPT to learn more about the multiple GPT installed partitions (Win RE, System, MSR, Windows, Recovery Image, etc.) http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../hh824839.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/wind.../gg463525.aspx Yes, Win RE is Windows Recovery Environment For the time being I'm comfortable with Win7 Pro on this system and Win8.1 Pro on the laptop. -- ...winston R. C. White wrote: Hi, Winston. Yes, I was curious about your "Boomer is Missing" post. My first thought was "Boomer! Sooner!" ;^} You caught up quickly on those multiple partitions, and then zoomed on ahead into the UEFI and Win7/8 changes. After getting comfy with the WinNT4 to WinXP system, it took me a "generation" to transition to Vista's BCD system. When Win7 introduced the new partition arrangement, I didn't bother to learn it very well; I just kept using the multiple partitions on multiple drives that I had learned when I first started dual-booting with WinNT4/Windows 95 back in '98. Each of my bootable HDDs has a small (10 GB is SMALL?) primary partition as a System Partition, with the rest of the disk in an extended partition divided into multiple logical drives. These logical drives get deleted/recreated/reformatted/renamed/re-lettered from time to time. This was especially true during the years of beta-testing Vista and Win7. Since my MVP days are over, I haven't been as energetic in creating and maintaining all those drives. (I'm using only 16 drive letters now. g With 4 internal HDDs, a 3 TB USB3 external disk, booting mostly from a 120 GB SSD. Plus removable USB sticks and SD cards now and then.) My year-old mobo does have UEFI and I did have to learn enough about GPT to access the full 3 TB, but that was a one-time exercise - which I'd have to relearn to do it again. But I haven't bought a pre-configured computer in over 20 years so I have never used Microsoft's new partition scheme. All this discussion of the Recovery Partition and such (like special partitions from Dell, HP, etc.) simply goes over my head. (What's Windows RE? Recovery Environment?) When I need to know all that, I know whom to ask. ;) Happy Thanksgiving! This morning we had our first mild freeze, about 29 degrees. RC |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | Rate This Thread |
|
|