Whatever happened to FireWire?

At one time it was a strong competing standard against USB, but I
haven't seen any device using it lately.

On 04/22/2015 07:28 PM, cameo wrote:
At one time it was a strong competing standard against USB, but I
haven't seen any device using it lately.



According to Wiki, "Steve Jobs declared Firewire dead in 2008".

USB-2 had pretty much taken over well before that.


Between Thunderbolt and USB3 /3.1 Firewire is old technology

cameo wrote on 4/22/2015 8:28 PM:
At one time it was a strong competing standard against USB, but I haven't seen any device using it lately.
I bought a external enclosure that had firewire thinking it would be nice on my laptop that has a port.
But it's equal in speed to USB3.0 and unlike a 2.5" drive on usb, the firewire does not supply power. Even though I
see specs that say it will supply it. I guess it's a factor of the manufacturer of the enclosure.

So I'm not that thrilled about firewire myself.

Big_Al wrote:
cameo wrote on 4/22/2015 8:28 PM:
At one time it was a strong competing standard against USB, but I
haven't seen any device using it lately.
I bought a external enclosure that had firewire thinking it would be
nice on my laptop that has a port.
But it's equal in speed to USB3.0 and unlike a 2.5" drive on usb, the
firewire does not supply power. Even though I see specs that say it
will supply it. I guess it's a factor of the manufacturer of the
enclosure.

So I'm not that thrilled about firewire myself.


That depends on I/O connector choice.

Devices with 4 pin plugs, only have the pins
necessary for a data connection.

Devices with 6 pin plugs, the extra two pins
are for power. You need "6 pin continuity" from
source to load, to get power for free.

*******

IBM PCs aren't exactly "highly compliant" with
the powering ideas behind Firewire. The spec allows
higher voltages, like say a bus voltage of 25V (Apple),
and a peripheral could have a switching converter, to make
+12V and +5V from that to power a 3.5" drive. Instead,
PCs power the Firewire bus voltage with +12V (the most
positive voltage available on a standard ATX supply). The
Firewire bus has a current flow limit, which may not be
enough (at 12V), to power every possible load. 12V at
1.5A is a total of 18W. The Firewire spec says:

"Max. voltage 30 V
Max. current 1.5 A"

A hard drive, could draw 5V @ 1A and 12V @ 3A, within the
first ten seconds. That is 41W of power. If the Firewire bus
power actually ran at 30V @ 1.5A, that is 45W of power,
and would just be enough. Apple uses a relatively high
voltage (25V, and the 25V may have been used to run some Apple
monitors that were powered by the computer). And with
the 1.5A limit, that would fall slightly short of the
worst case for 3.5" hard drives total wattage needs.

At least one company, made bus powered hard drives
with a "boost" circuit. It would store up energy in
a capacitor, to power the drive motor during the
few seconds it draws 12V @ 3A (spinup). After spinup
is complete, even the wimpy 18W a standard PC provides
to Firewire, would be enough. More conservative
companies (like the company that made my Firewire
disk enclosure), they just used an external power
adapter. That reduces their risks as a manufacturer.
If you "don't know how to make electronics", then
you use an external off-the-shelf adapter and your
job is done.

The problem with my Firewire enclosure, is it has
a 137GB limit. I sure know how to pick-em. I can't use
any big drives in the thing. And the "firmware flash"
recipe, I tried it, and it didn't change a thing
(wrong chip rev for the fix to work).

Some camcorders have 4 pin connectors, which is a
polite way of saying "I don't need your bus power, thanks".

Paul

On Wed, 22 Apr 2015 23:26:10 -0400, Big_Al wrote:

cameo wrote on 4/22/2015 8:28 PM:
At one time it was a strong competing standard against USB, but I haven't seen any device using it lately.
I bought a external enclosure that had firewire thinking it would be nice on my laptop that has a port.
But it's equal in speed to USB3.0 and unlike a 2.5" drive on usb, the firewire does not supply power. Even though I
see specs that say it will supply it. I guess it's a factor of the manufacturer of the enclosure.

So I'm not that thrilled about firewire myself.

FireWire ports came in two varieties, a standard size port and a mini
port.

The mini port had only signal wires, no power.

Perhaps you used a connection with a mini port.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_1394

Look for the "History and development" section; there are pictures right
near the start. Look at the first drawing and at the red connectors.

You will see that my memory was inaccurate in the names of the
connectors and in the number of types, but anyway, the lack of power on
the 4-pin connector is correct.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

I still use it to transfer video from Sony Handycam to PC.

Kenny

"cameo" wrote in message ...

At one time it was a strong competing standard against USB, but I
haven't seen any device using it lately.

On 4/22/2015 8:26 PM, Big_Al wrote:
cameo wrote on 4/22/2015 8:28 PM:
At one time it was a strong competing standard against USB, but I
haven't seen any device using it lately.
I bought a external enclosure that had firewire thinking it would be
nice on my laptop that has a port.
But it's equal in speed to USB3.0 and unlike a 2.5" drive on usb, the
firewire does not supply power. Even though I see specs that say it
will supply it. I guess it's a factor of the manufacturer of the
enclosure.

So I'm not that thrilled about firewire myself.

I also bought in the late '90s an AcomData external drive, but that one
has both FireWire and USB connection capability. With hindsight, that
was a smart move. What was not so smart is that recently, when I was
recycling a bunch of old PC junk, including no longer used power cords
and adapters, I somehow recycled the 4-pin power cord and adapter for
this AcomDrive as well. Now I can't even access the data in that
external drive. I tried to buy one on ebay that supposedly is an exact
replacement, but did not work with the drive. Looks like it is
underpowered for the drive, but I'm not even sure if the pin-out is
correct. I could really bang my head for that "agressive" recycling move
I made. This is what often happens when a pack-rat decides to clean out
at last. :-(

On 04/23/2015 01:26 PM, cameo wrote:
On 4/22/2015 8:26 PM, Big_Al wrote:
cameo wrote on 4/22/2015 8:28 PM:
At one time it was a strong competing standard against USB, but I
haven't seen any device using it lately.
I bought a external enclosure that had firewire thinking it would be
nice on my laptop that has a port.
But it's equal in speed to USB3.0 and unlike a 2.5" drive on usb, the
firewire does not supply power. Even though I see specs that say it
will supply it. I guess it's a factor of the manufacturer of the
enclosure.

So I'm not that thrilled about firewire myself.

I also bought in the late '90s an AcomData external drive, but that one
has both FireWire and USB connection capability. With hindsight, that
was a smart move. What was not so smart is that recently, when I was
recycling a bunch of old PC junk, including no longer used power cords
and adapters, I somehow recycled the 4-pin power cord and adapter for
this AcomDrive as well. Now I can't even access the data in that
external drive. I tried to buy one on ebay that supposedly is an exact
replacement, but did not work with the drive. Looks like it is
underpowered for the drive, but I'm not even sure if the pin-out is
correct. I could really bang my head for that "agressive" recycling move
I made. This is what often happens when a pack-rat decides to clean out
at last. :-(




Just take the drive out of the case and install it (temporarily) inside
your computer

On 4/23/2015 12:32 PM, John wrote:
On Thu, 23 Apr 2015 11:26:57 -0700, cameo
wrote:

On 4/22/2015 8:26 PM, Big_Al wrote:
cameo wrote on 4/22/2015 8:28 PM:
At one time it was a strong competing standard against USB, but I
haven't seen any device using it lately.
I bought a external enclosure that had firewire thinking it would be
nice on my laptop that has a port.
But it's equal in speed to USB3.0 and unlike a 2.5" drive on usb, the
firewire does not supply power. Even though I see specs that say it
will supply it. I guess it's a factor of the manufacturer of the
enclosure.

So I'm not that thrilled about firewire myself.

I also bought in the late '90s an AcomData external drive, but that one
has both FireWire and USB connection capability. With hindsight, that
was a smart move. What was not so smart is that recently, when I was
recycling a bunch of old PC junk, including no longer used power cords
and adapters, I somehow recycled the 4-pin power cord and adapter for
this AcomDrive as well. Now I can't even access the data in that
external drive. I tried to buy one on ebay that supposedly is an exact
replacement, but did not work with the drive. Looks like it is
underpowered for the drive, but I'm not even sure if the pin-out is
correct. I could really bang my head for that "agressive" recycling move
I made. This is what often happens when a pack-rat decides to clean out
at last. :-(

"You only ever need it once you've recycled it and then you *really*
need it" is John's Second of Physics. It supercedes all other laws of
Physics, thermodynamics, Murphy, Finagle and John.
J.
This is why I used to be a pack-rat. Now look what happened when I
finally decided not to be one anymore.

On 4/23/2015 12:31 PM, philo wrote:
On 04/23/2015 01:26 PM, cameo wrote:
On 4/22/2015 8:26 PM, Big_Al wrote:
cameo wrote on 4/22/2015 8:28 PM:
At one time it was a strong competing standard against USB, but I
haven't seen any device using it lately.
I bought a external enclosure that had firewire thinking it would be
nice on my laptop that has a port.
But it's equal in speed to USB3.0 and unlike a 2.5" drive on usb, the
firewire does not supply power. Even though I see specs that say it
will supply it. I guess it's a factor of the manufacturer of the
enclosure.

So I'm not that thrilled about firewire myself.

I also bought in the late '90s an AcomData external drive, but that one
has both FireWire and USB connection capability. With hindsight, that
was a smart move. What was not so smart is that recently, when I was
recycling a bunch of old PC junk, including no longer used power cords
and adapters, I somehow recycled the 4-pin power cord and adapter for
this AcomDrive as well. Now I can't even access the data in that
external drive. I tried to buy one on ebay that supposedly is an exact
replacement, but did not work with the drive. Looks like it is
underpowered for the drive, but I'm not even sure if the pin-out is
correct. I could really bang my head for that "agressive" recycling move
I made. This is what often happens when a pack-rat decides to clean out
at last. :-(




Just take the drive out of the case and install it (temporarily) inside
your computer.

I don't uses desktops anymore. So I can't do it.

"cameo" wrote:
On 4/23/2015 12:31 PM, philo wrote:

Just take the drive out of the case and install it (temporarily) inside
your computer.

I don't uses desktops anymore. So I can't do it.

Assuming that the drive itself uses a standard IDE connection, for a few
bucks you can buy adapters (without a case) which let you connect a disk
drive (IDE, both 5-1/4 and 3.5" or SATA)to a USB port. I keep one both at
home and at the office; mine are by Bytecc but there are numerous other
brands.

That should work on any computer with decent USB drivers - the only computer
I've had trouble with was a Surface.

Joe

cameo wrote:
On 4/23/2015 12:31 PM, philo wrote:

Just take the drive out of the case and install it (temporarily) inside
your computer.

I don't uses desktops anymore. So I can't do it.


A desktop makes an excellent "technician computer".

Good for when repairs need to be made to some other computer
and its component parts.

Paul

On 4/23/2015 2:17 PM, Kenny wrote:
I still use it to transfer video from Sony Handycam to PC.

Kenny

"cameo" wrote in message ...
At one time it was a strong competing standard against USB, but I
haven't seen any device using it lately.

That's because the "fire" went out. G

One buss that I watched for some time was an optical version of the
HPIB/IEEE Buss. The reason was that it had a potential to eliminate
cables and provide ground loop and general isolation for test systems.

Never found out what eventually happened, as I got out of that facet of
electronics testing, and moved into logistics and systems management,
more or less until I retired.

On 4/23/2015 4:21 PM, Joe Morris wrote:
"cameo" wrote:
On 4/23/2015 12:31 PM, philo wrote:

Just take the drive out of the case and install it (temporarily) inside
your computer.

I don't uses desktops anymore. So I can't do it.

Assuming that the drive itself uses a standard IDE connection, for a few
bucks you can buy adapters (without a case) which let you connect a disk
drive (IDE, both 5-1/4 and 3.5" or SATA)to a USB port. I keep one both at
home and at the office; mine are by Bytecc but there are numerous other
brands.

That should work on any computer with decent USB drivers - the only computer
I've had trouble with was a Surface.

I almost forgot that I had one of those universal drive adapters from
NewTechnology and I tried it out on this drive after I removed it from
the case. It's an 80 GB enhanced IDE drive by Western Digital and the
NewTech kit can be hooked up to it fine. Unfortunately the drive seems
to be dead, because the PC does not detect the drive when I stick in the
USB connector.
I have a sneaky suspicion that the adapter I bought on ebay may have
fried it with possibly bad pin polarity even though it could only be
stuck in one way. It has 4 pins, 2 of them Gnd, and the other two 5V and
12V. One cannot trust those Chinese made aftermarket parts.

On Fri, 24 Apr 2015 10:39:31 -0700, cameo wrote:

On 4/23/2015 4:21 PM, Joe Morris wrote:
"cameo" wrote:
On 4/23/2015 12:31 PM, philo wrote:

Just take the drive out of the case and install it (temporarily) inside
your computer.

I don't uses desktops anymore. So I can't do it.

Assuming that the drive itself uses a standard IDE connection, for a few
bucks you can buy adapters (without a case) which let you connect a disk
drive (IDE, both 5-1/4 and 3.5" or SATA)to a USB port. I keep one both at
home and at the office; mine are by Bytecc but there are numerous other
brands.

That should work on any computer with decent USB drivers - the only computer
I've had trouble with was a Surface.

I almost forgot that I had one of those universal drive adapters from
NewTechnology and I tried it out on this drive after I removed it from
the case. It's an 80 GB enhanced IDE drive by Western Digital and the
NewTech kit can be hooked up to it fine. Unfortunately the drive seems
to be dead, because the PC does not detect the drive when I stick in the
USB connector.
I have a sneaky suspicion that the adapter I bought on ebay may have
fried it with possibly bad pin polarity even though it could only be
stuck in one way. It has 4 pins, 2 of them Gnd, and the other two 5V and
12V. One cannot trust those Chinese made aftermarket parts.

Did you provide power via an external power supply to the drive?

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)