CD/R scratched and defective...can get data??

I have 5 CD/Rs that are pretty old. They contain a OEM version of 32 bit
XP MCE and drivers, and other misc software. These CDs are old. Obviously
CD-RWs if they were out were new. Forget about DVD/RWs. They're about 11
years old and damaged. Is there any good software out there that can get my
data back?

I've used something that sometimes get me by with only 4 or even 2
partial files copied. But that's not doing the job.

Bill

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 13:03:15 -0700, Bill Cunningham
wrote:

I have 5 CD/Rs that are pretty old. They contain a OEM version of 32
bit
XP MCE and drivers, and other misc software. These CDs are old. Obviously
CD-RWs if they were out were new. Forget about DVD/RWs. They're about 11
years old and damaged. Is there any good software out there that can get
my
data back?

I've used something that sometimes get me by with only 4 or even 2
partial files copied. But that's not doing the job.

Bill




Don't know about deterioration of the aluminum(?) data layer, but if he CD
is scratched you can get CD repair kits to remove the scratches following
a video on how to do it from the people who KNOW plastics:

San Leandro HQ 510 357 3755

TAP Plastics (408) 292 8685
1212 The Alameda
San Jose, CA 95125

TAP Plastics Inc (408) 265-6400
1008 Blossom Hill Rd # F
San Jose, CA 95123

TAP Plastics Inc (650) 962-8430
312 Castro St
Mtn View, CA 94041

http://www.tapplastics.com

"RobertMacy" wrote in message
newsp.xt0ie9vo2cx0wh@ajm...

Don't know about deterioration of the aluminum(?) data layer, but if he CD
is scratched you can get CD repair kits to remove the scratches following
a video on how to do it from the people who KNOW plastics:

San Leandro HQ 510 357 3755

TAP Plastics (408) 292 8685
1212 The Alameda
San Jose, CA 95125

TAP Plastics Inc (408) 265-6400
1008 Blossom Hill Rd # F
San Jose, CA 95123

TAP Plastics Inc (650) 962-8430
312 Castro St
Mtn View, CA 94041

http://www.tapplastics.com

Yes 11 yo CDs I guess could be beyond the life of the physical plastics.
I am sure since more durable plastics have been used. There seem to be some
scratches too.

Bill

Bill Cunningham wrote:
"RobertMacy" wrote in message
newsp.xt0ie9vo2cx0wh@ajm...

Don't know about deterioration of the aluminum(?) data layer, but if he CD
is scratched you can get CD repair kits to remove the scratches following
a video on how to do it from the people who KNOW plastics:

San Leandro HQ 510 357 3755

TAP Plastics (408) 292 8685
1212 The Alameda
San Jose, CA 95125

TAP Plastics Inc (408) 265-6400
1008 Blossom Hill Rd # F
San Jose, CA 95123

TAP Plastics Inc (650) 962-8430
312 Castro St
Mtn View, CA 94041

http://www.tapplastics.com

Yes 11 yo CDs I guess could be beyond the life of the physical plastics.
I am sure since more durable plastics have been used. There seem to be some
scratches too.

Bill

Scratches aren't going to hurt. Especially radial scratches. Tangential
ones might have more of an effect, but it's pretty hard to gouge the
thing in exactly the right way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cdrom

"Both Mode 1 and 2 sectors use the first 16 bytes for header information,
but differ in the remaining 2,336 bytes due to the use of error correction
bytes. Unlike an audio CD, a CD-ROM cannot rely on error concealment by
interpolation; a higher reliability of the retrieved data is required. To
achieve improved error correction and detection, Mode 1, used mostly for
digital data, adds a 32-bit cyclic redundancy check (CRC) code for
error detection, and a third layer of Reed–Solomon error correction using
a Reed-Solomon Product-like Code (RSPC). Mode 1 therefore contains 288 bytes
per sector for error detection and correction, leaving 2,048 bytes per sector
available for data."

That's 14% overhead for ECC. That's a lot for storage. And the correction
information is spread out (interleaved). Which is why random scratches
aren't as bad as you think.

What really causes media to be unreadable, is when the reflective layer
gets "eaten", and the spiral groove cannot be tracked on the media. When
that happens, zero data comes from the head, and there is nothing to
correct. The disc should really work "all or nothing", because of this.
If the spiral can be tracked, you can recover the data. if the spiral
cannot be tracked, you get nothing.

Certainly, you can have a transparent section of the media, where
the data is missing only from that area. But the spiral tracking
function is going to notice those areas floating under the head
once per revolution, and get ****ed off. And declare a loss of lock.

While you may be able to find an application that attempts to do a
"raw read" (read 2336 bytes instead of 2048, then does the math),
I don't see a reason why the end result should be any different.
Only if the drive happened to be ignoring one of the three levels
of RS protection, would such an approach help.

This is not a solution, merely an example of someone
asking this kind of question. There are likely to be
commercial applications for data recovery, but who
knows how well they work.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1...ng-read-errors

*******

Also, a random data point for you. My WinXP SP3 installer CD is
spotless - no scratches or dirt. I got two different results
when reading from it (trying to clone it). It's possible the
pressed media was designed in such a way, to prevent simple copying.
You might consider that possibility.

Paul

On 2/13/15 1:12 PM, RobertMacy wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 13:03:15 -0700, Bill Cunningham
wrote:

I have 5 CD/Rs that are pretty old. They contain a OEM version of 32
bit
XP MCE and drivers, and other misc software. These CDs are old. Obviously
CD-RWs if they were out were new. Forget about DVD/RWs. They're about 11
years old and damaged. Is there any good software out there that can get
my
data back?

I've used something that sometimes get me by with only 4 or even 2
partial files copied. But that's not doing the job.

Bill




Don't know about deterioration of the aluminum(?) data layer, but if he CD
is scratched you can get CD repair kits to remove the scratches following
a video on how to do it from the people who KNOW plastics:

San Leandro HQ 510 357 3755

TAP Plastics (408) 292 8685
1212 The Alameda
San Jose, CA 95125

TAP Plastics Inc (408) 265-6400
1008 Blossom Hill Rd # F
San Jose, CA 95123

TAP Plastics Inc (650) 962-8430
312 Castro St
Mtn View, CA 94041

http://www.tapplastics.com

Meguiar's auto products makes a product called Plastx that has always
worked well for me on scratched disks, using a manual disk cleaner. I
use a cheap thing from Phillips.

http://www.meguiars.com/en/automotiv...leaner-polish/

They used to make a couple aircraft windshield cleaners, #10 and #16,
but I only find #10 and #17 on their website. I don't know for sure,
but these may be the current versions of the aviation products I used.

http://www.autogeek.net/meguiars1017.html

Depending on how seriously this is to you, you could go out to your
nearest general aviation airport, and ask around for their favorite
windshield scratch removing products on general aviation products.

This is an excellent aviation product supply house...
http://www.aircraft-spruce.com/menus...dcleaners.html

The Micro-Mesh product mention on this page is just flat outstanding and
amazing, although a bit pricey. Uses special sandpaper, IIRC the finest
grit in the package is 6000 grit. G And yes, I used these kits many
years ago as an aircraft mechanic.

Also, check your upscale sound system places, for something to clean
plastic dust covers as would be found on turntables. FWIW, Best Buy is
NOT and upscale sound system place.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 33.1
Thunderbird 31.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 15:36:44 -0500, "Bill Cunningham"
wrote:


"RobertMacy" wrote in message
newsp.xt0ie9vo2cx0wh@ajm...

Don't know about deterioration of the aluminum(?) data layer, but if he CD
is scratched you can get CD repair kits to remove the scratches following
a video on how to do it from the people who KNOW plastics:

San Leandro HQ 510 357 3755

TAP Plastics (408) 292 8685
1212 The Alameda
San Jose, CA 95125

TAP Plastics Inc (408) 265-6400
1008 Blossom Hill Rd # F
San Jose, CA 95123

TAP Plastics Inc (650) 962-8430
312 Castro St
Mtn View, CA 94041

http://www.tapplastics.com

Yes 11 yo CDs I guess could be beyond the life of the physical plastics.
I am sure since more durable plastics have been used. There seem to be some
scratches too.

Bill

You sound like you've given up before you start. You asked for advice
and you should take it.

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 19:13:01 -0700, Paul wrote:

...snip...

Scratches aren't going to hurt. Especially radial scratches. Tangential
ones might have more of an effect, but it's pretty hard to gouge the
thing in exactly the right way.


exceptions abound....
On my only copy of my WinXP Pro installation disk is a single scratch.
THAT scratch is right on top of THE single most important file that's used
for, ?? so he disk no longer will load the installation.

Bill Cunningham wrote:

I have 5 CD/Rs that are pretty old. They contain a OEM version of 32 bit
XP MCE and drivers, and other misc software. These CDs are old. Obviously
CD-RWs if they were out were new. Forget about DVD/RWs. They're about 11
years old and damaged. Is there any good software out there that can get my
data back?

I've used something that sometimes get me by with only 4 or even 2
partial files copied. But that's not doing the job.

Depends on which side is scratched. The foil in which the pits are
burned (commercial pressing) or chemical phase change occurs (burner
CD/DVD drive) is the same side as you see the label. That is, under the
label is the surface layer containing the data. If that side is the one
scratched then the foil containing the data was destroyed. The foil
side is the one you want to protect most.

Commercial pressing that produces physical pits in the foil to be read
by the drive last a long time. Chemical phase change fades over time
and why permanent storage means eventual loss of data. Sometimes the
plastic formula got phucked and cloudy areas will appear. You can't fix
those as the clouding is inside the plastic layer.

If it is the opposite (non-label) and translucent side that got
scratched, there are lots of kits available for polishing or recoating
the plastic to reduce the scratches and restore the refraction of the
plastic. Scratches can be handled, not gouges. I cannot personally
recommend any scratch kits because I don't scratch my discs. They're in
the drive or in a protective wallet, not sliding around on a desk or
left in some cheap paper sleeve. Discs that travel with me are copies.

In the early nineties, when CD-R was introduced (so users could burn
their own chem-change discs), manufacturers of the media said it would
last 40 years. When DVD-R discs came out, manufacturers said they would
last 100 years. ISO quality disc manufacturers have documented their
media will last 50 to 200 years. The problem is many users buy
low-grade cheapy media that cracks with just a slight flex; i.e., the
cheap stuff is brittle and harder (so more likely to scratch). That's
for commercially pressed discs - the type that have physical pits burned
out of the foil. The chem-change type will still last decades but you
have to treat them well. Heat is the bane of chem-change discs and why
they fade pretty fast when left in a hot car (along with warping).

So I doubt the problem is with the foil side of the disc unless it is
physically damaged. Scratches on the other side can usually be
corrected using a polishing or coating kit. Gouges can't be corrected
as they change the refractive angle so the data on the foil or chem
layer can't be read because the laser can't touch it.

Clear side scratches: polish or coat them out. Gouges (either side) or
foil damage it: toss the disc or pay a lab to retrieve data.

"micky" wrote in message
...

You sound like you've given up before you start. You asked for advice
and you should take it.

Well I have tried a couple of things. They aren't working. I've tried
data recovery in one session and got 4 partial files copied. Tried again and
got 2 partial files copied. All I know to do is keep trying at different
recovery levels (1-4).

Bill

"Charlie+" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 15:36:44 -0500, "Bill Cunningham"

I dont think the plastic will be your limiting factor.
CDRoller is the most useful easily available recovery sw I have come
across - it has a free and limited trial, however if as you say they may
be RW (and I doubt this!) data disks then I doubt there is any useable
data left after 10 years. if they are the standard CD-R disks then if
you can see light through scratches in the coated side of the disk then
there will be some absolutely unrecoverable data and you can bin them
now (as also mentioned upthread!) To give youself the best chance in any
recovery you will have to properly re-polish the optical side of the
disk as a start (workshop stuff!).... C+

The coated side. That is the top right. There is a small place where the
plastic over coating is missing and some of the top coating is just
beginning to fade.

700MB/80 Min recordable CD. That's all the info I know about these
CD/Rs...

Bill

On 02/13/2015 02:03 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote:
I have 5 CD/Rs that are pretty old. They contain a OEM version of 32 bit
XP MCE and drivers, and other misc software. These CDs are old. Obviously
CD-RWs if they were out were new. Forget about DVD/RWs. They're about 11
years old and damaged. Is there any good software out there that can get my
data back?

I've used something that sometimes get me by with only 4 or even 2
partial files copied. But that's not doing the job.

Bill





Not worth it. Even if the cd's were recoverable you'd invest a heck of a
lot of time.

I did a quick Google search and saw a copy of Media Center on Amazon for
$40 or so...

but really I'd avoid it entirely.


Years ago a friend of mine who is a musician bought an XP Media Center
computer figuring it would be the best machine for a musician.

He then bought some studio recording software that specifically said it
would work with XP. It was not until after he purchased the product that
he found out : XP...yes. XP Media Center NO

"philo" wrote in message
...
On 02/13/2015 02:03 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote:
I have 5 CD/Rs that are pretty old. They contain a OEM version of 32
bit
XP MCE and drivers, and other misc software. These CDs are old. Obviously
CD-RWs if they were out were new. Forget about DVD/RWs. They're about 11
years old and damaged. Is there any good software out there that can get
my
data back?

I've used something that sometimes get me by with only 4 or even 2
partial files copied. But that's not doing the job.

Bill





Not worth it. Even if the cd's were recoverable you'd invest a heck of a
lot of time.

I did a quick Google search and saw a copy of Media Center on Amazon for
$40 or so...

but really I'd avoid it entirely.


Years ago a friend of mine who is a musician bought an XP Media Center
computer figuring it would be the best machine for a musician.

He then bought some studio recording software that specifically said it
would work with XP. It was not until after he purchased the product that
he found out : XP...yes. XP Media Center NO

Windows isn't worth move than $20 at most brand new out of the box. I
use it because it comes on the computer. It's ok but not worth what they
want for it.

Bill

On 02/14/2015 06:52 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote:



Not worth it. Even if the cd's were recoverable you'd invest a heck of a
lot of time.

I did a quick Google search and saw a copy of Media Center on Amazon for
$40 or so...

but really I'd avoid it entirely.


Years ago a friend of mine who is a musician bought an XP Media Center
computer figuring it would be the best machine for a musician.

He then bought some studio recording software that specifically said it
would work with XP. It was not until after he purchased the product that
he found out : XP...yes. XP Media Center NO

Windows isn't worth move than $20 at most brand new out of the box. I
use it because it comes on the computer. It's ok but not worth what they
want for it.

Bill





Checked eBay and saw XP being sold for $17

"philo" wrote in message
...

Checked eBay and saw XP being sold for $17

Windows 8.1 and after should be going for abut $20 or so.

Bill

On 02/16/2015 12:28 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote:
"philo" wrote in message
...

Checked eBay and saw XP being sold for $17

Windows 8.1 and after should be going for abut $20 or so.

Bill





The one good thing about Win8 is that it should be upgradeable to Win10...
which looks like an improvement to me.