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#47
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An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist
Personally, I'd like to see some way to enforce the rule that OEMs have to
support the software. Or maybe lose the ability to sell OEM. As a small system builder, my customers can come in and ask me questions face-to-face, and that's fine. Or they'll call. But I also get plenty of calls from people who have bought from the big guys, and they can't get an answer. Then there are the people who sell the oem software with trinkets, and have no intention or ability to answer questions. I don't mind answering customer's questions, and even the not-yet customers -- I figure some day I will get their business. But it does irritate me that others shirk the responsibility to give the technical support they're supposed to. They aren't footing the cost for proper support, so they sell their stuff cheap, which is fine for the customer until they need help. And in the meantime, I'm providing free tech support in the hopes that I'll get work from that person in the meantime. "Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message ... "Testy" wrote in message .. . Personally I think it is time to discontinue the OEM program and have every maker include a full CD. Testy, Is that just force the OEM to provide a full white box disk OEM CD ROM; or end the whole program of OEM product requiring OEM support and actually ship a Retail CD? If the later - would the market stand the increase in cost (passed onto the consumer) for the support of all those millions and millions of OEM customers now having to come to Microsoft ? If just force the OEM CD ROM in the package with the PC - then interesting idea. -- Regards, Mike -- Mike Brannigan [Microsoft] This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these newsgroups "Testy" wrote in message .. . Personally I think it is time to discontinue the OEM program and have every maker include a full CD. Testy "David Banks" wrote in message ... Hi Whilst I read Neil's message with the obvious humour that was intended I do think it generally reflects the 'mood' of anybody who has the Windows product 'thrust upon them', particularly if it is from an OEM. All OEM support personnel that I have encountered only know the basics of the systems they are supposed to be knowledgeable of and I have never yet had a satisfactory outcome from any support line in the UK. Both Microsoft and Siemens and Comet in the UK shove you from pillar to post, how anybody without tenacity can ever get a problem fixed in the 'buck-passing' atmosphere that originates at Microsoft beats me. There are a lot of people with 'smart' answers and they will probably turn out to be right and gently 'ridicule' the originators message (as has been done in this case), but please, Microsoft, giving smart, glib answers on how stupid an enquirer is (this is the impression I get from the response by Mike) does not endear us to you. Answers like 'if you don't like it, you know what you can do' are not in my Customer Services handbook, since when has Microsoft had that view ;-))))) To suggest that we can 'go elsewhere' to the average computer buyer with little knowledge of computing is a bit 'high minded' of you and again only reflects the general perception that the public have of the organisation. I always get some smart person replying to my enquiries pointing out the obvious, I just get fed up of writing back to them with the message 'read my enquiry again, you have not answered the question I asked' A message for Neil, give it up mate, your wasting your time (and energy) but I know it feels good to 'blow off steam' every now and then. Also to suggest the use of backup is laughable, the backup program is not included on the standard XP installation!!!! I am very troubled by Mike's reply and have re-written it using my own Customer Services Handbook:- 'Dear Neil I am sorry that you are experiencing difficulties in obtaining the information you require. The Windows operating system is very complex and navigating the knowledge bases' and help files can sometimes be frustrating but please persevere. Here are the links where you will find the answers to your questions:- links blah blah blah etc. Thankyou for contacting Microsdfoft, we welcome all feedback and hope that we have gone some way to alleviating what is obviously a very frustrating problem to you. Please do not hesitate to contact us on blah blah if you have any further queries or problems.' David "Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message ... Neil, Comments inline -- Regards, Mike -- Mike Brannigan [Microsoft] This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these newsgroups "Neil Obstat" wrote in message 48.16... Hello, Microsoft. I have just wasted about an hour trying to figure out how the hell I am supposed to ask you a question about one of your filthy, worthless products. "Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message ... Neil, Comments inline -- Regards, Mike -- Mike Brannigan [Microsoft] This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these newsgroups "Neil Obstat" wrote in message 48.16... Hello, Microsoft. I have just wasted about an hour trying to figure out how the hell I am supposed to ask you a question about one of your filthy, worthless products. This is not a statement that is condusive to those who may to provide support (particularly if they are Microsoft staff) Internet Explorer will not save a web page with its associated graphics in certain instances. Instead, it says "The web page could not be saved to the selected location." Can you please supply which pages you are having problems with. Are you Save As. Web page complete. This creates an addtional folder below the locvation you are saving to that contains additional files (graphics etc). Ensure you have permissions to creat this addtional folder for the page you are Saving. Also try the Save As single file. This produces a MHT file with all the content embedded. On the sites I have tried this on the Save As single file produced better results (www.ibm.com was one test that worked better as single file) I have read the reason for this before, yet a search about--that's right--an hour ago turned up no results. I looked for the phrase "to the selected location." I mean, that's part of what the error message says. It uses those very words. I even checked to make sure I spelled it exactly right. Seems like that text would be present SOMEWHERE in your knowledge base, under the section for Internet Explorer 6, the program that gives me the error message. Nope. No such luck. Apparently your error messages do not coordinate with your knowledge base. That would be helpful. The text DOES exist in the Knowledgebase. If you go to the Knowledgebase at http://support.microsoft.com/ Clcik the link for Search our Technical Database (Knowledge Base) Just leave the Select your Product as the default - All Microsoft Search topics- enter "The web page could not be saved to " in to the For Solution containing and Using ... The exact phrase entered Produces one result http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=235589 Which conatins the error exactly as stated. Is it relevent to you ?? Never mind the message is, itself, not helpful. The "selecte(oops, hang on, Outlook just popped its reminder window up in my face WHILE I WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF TYPING THIS. I love when you do that, Microsoft!)d location" has nothing to do with the error. No matter where I try to save the page, no luck. I believe, from what I read before (from your knowledge base, unless I am greatly mistaken) that this has to do with an update that was released at some point for Internet Explorer. I guess my original question was, are you going to get around to fixing this at any point? I mean, I know you know the problem exists. It is a nice feature, being able to save the occasional web page, with its graphics intact and all. But it doesn't work with some pages, and I guess I'd just like to know if, having broken it, and (at one time, anyway) having acknowledged that you had broken it, you were planning on doing anything about it. Which pages are problematic and are any releated to the KB article I found. And then I tried to ask you that. I went to your support page. I went to the part where I'm supposed to get to ask you a question. But as every single technical operative at your company is more important than the Wizard of Oz, this proved completely impossible. I bought my computer from Dell. Dell's a fine company. But because I did that, you won't let me ask you about the product. You told me to go to Dell. As it were. The support for OEM products is the responsibility of the OEM. It is a DELL machine with an OEM version of Windows XP on it - it is up to Dell to provide you with support. Yes, but...Dell didn't write the offending program, did Dell? No, Dell did not. You did. You wrote it, and you broke it. So why ask Dell? Dell doesn't know what you've done. Dell are fully trained in the support of the OS and have access to technical data that Microsoft support personnel do. In addition since it is an OEM machine and OS Dell may have modified the system and as such are the only ones who can provide the required support. Dell do and can know "what we have done" Do you know, I might've liked to have tried something like Linux. Other people do still make operating systems out there, don't they? I might've liked a blank, fresh system I could put a Linux or a Unix or some such thing on, but I bought a computer from Dell and since you're the big game in town I have to buy your software with the system. Dell has a deal with you. Dell paid something for that software, maybe not retail, but something. I'm sure they're not giving it to me for nothing. So if I buy a computer from Dell--or almost anyone else--I'm not asked if I would like Windows, I have to buy Windows. But if I do buy Windows that way, I cannot get support for it. I'm beginning to feel a mite screwed, here. You can purchase a device from other vendors with other opertaing systems or non at all. You chose Dell and Dell supply Windows XP as an OEM product on PCs they ship. See comment above about OEM support. If Dell will not supply you a PC configured to your requirements (including) choice of OS then you can go elsewhere. I tried entering the Product ID, and was told to go to Dell. So I decided to improvise. I dug out a 3 year old copy of Encarta, and I installed it. It's the only software of yours I have that isn't an OEM version. Meaning it's the only thing made by you I've EVER CHOSEN to purchase. There was a rebate. It was free, after the rebate. Correct - I feel I am repeating myself - OEM product = support by OEM. Having installed Encarta 2000, I got the Product ID from that. At this point, I just sort of wanted to ask if your company had any sense of responsibility whatsoever for what you have wrought on the world, you great jolly megalith, you. I want you to have to read my words, because I have to look at yours every damn day. Generally in some sort of error dialog. Or occasionally on a soothing screen painted all in deepest blue. Went back. Chose "Encarta" for product instead of "Internet Explorer" (wait, no, that wasn't an option on the list--I mean instead of "Windows XP"). Typed in the Product ID. Was told (drumroll, please)...you don't offer support IN THIS COUNTRY for that Product ID. But...I bought it in this country. Checked that I had typed it in correctly. I had. Checked once again. Yep. Cleaned my glasses. Hmm...still says "in this country." Okay. Did you purchase your copy of Encarta in the country where you reside ? Was it a grey import ? If you have a USA Encarta and are in the USA then we may have a problem (please note the use of USA is just an example,as you do not state where you are.) I could bore you with all the details of what I tried then. I went through every support option you offer. Hey, for $245 I can call you on the phone! That's pretty sweet. I could pay $245 to hear you tell me to go to Dell for support on a product YOU wrote and published. Cool. Yes - we wrote it and supplied it to Dell to OEM onto their machines and possibly modify or augment. They then trained the support personnel to provide the necessary support on the product. They also have routes back into us for issues they cannot resolve and also to raise bugs etc should that be needed. But I'll skip right to the part where I went to one of your "communities" for support. That's where I found a really neat-o looking page full of bright, shiny graphics. Looked a lot like an advertisement. Like most of your products do, these days. Did I see any place for me to submit a question for the consideration of the "community?" I bet you can figure out the answer to that. Do you mean here http://support.microsoft.com/newsgroups/default.aspx or http://www.microsoft.com/communities/default.mspx Both result in Web based access to these newsgroups. I mean, there was a little bit of information on your newsgroups. Ninety trillion dollars you must've spent on that bloated, script-ridden, cookie- filled web page, and you send people to the newsgroups. Yessir, doesn't get much more modern than a newsgroup. What would you prefer? This is the most ubiquitous form of peer to peer support community that the technical community operate in. Of course, fewer and fewer people are familiar with the technology and etiquette required to use newsgroups. But then, those ignorant, easily discouraged peons don't deserve technical help, do they? They only shelled out money for your software, or for a computer which came with mandatorily-installed copies of some of your software. We offer technical support as detailed for retail customers. OEMs provide support for their OEM supplied products. There is no technology required - we offer a Web interface; as well as advice on setting up real newsreader programs. Also on the "communities" page was a link called "Windows XP Support Center," which lead right back to where I had started from an hour before. Elegant. Yes - since some people arrive at the communities via other routes and then may want to search the knowledgebase or access other support services. The web is not a linear construct people enter from various directions. And hey, look--there's also a forthcoming article being hyped! "Coming Next Week: Award-winning computer journalist Ed Bott explains how to use the Backup utility in Windows XP and third-party back up tools to protect essential data." Well, that would have been useful before last week, when the partition table on my main data drive decided to go south and take out a year's worth of projects for school and some nice, irreplaceable personal information. So, I guess thanks for that, too. I mean, I hadn't even planned on mentioning that to you. You're busy, and you don't need me bothering you with my little problems. If you have lost a significant amount of important data because you made no effort to protect it through the use of appropriate software (backup or otherwise) - then this is not our fault. (Windows has been kind enough to inform me ever since that the drive "is not formatted," which is not strictly accurate, but that's okay because I'm smart enough to figure out the real problem myself. I like knowing I can make my computer's life a little easier.) ok Of course, while you may not need me bugging you with questions, you certainly do need me to submit a quart of blood and 35 stellar references just so I can get to the point of typing in a Product ID you won't support...in this country. I had to create a stinking Hotmail account just so I'd have a lousy Passport ID so I could even take a look at the useless support page that wound up helping me not one whit. (A Passport ID which is now linked to my user account on this computer. Super. Thanks for that.) That, of course, involved trudging through 15 pages of "which of these newsletters would you like to subscribe to" and "please tell us all your hobbies." So I can get an email account. (But not one with "Microsoft" or "Bill Gates" in the name--I guess I could use that to screw people, and that job's been filled already. That, or else my name is really William Gates, although surely there could only be one in the whole world. Let's hope, anyway.) But, the delay of wading through those forms aside, I'm glad you've taken such a profound interest in me as a person that you would have me click inside little square boxes in order that you may learn about the intricacies that make up my fascinating and variegated life. You really do care! Yes - we do. Or else you're the devil, and you're trying to steal my very soul. Have I mentioned lately how much I hate you, Microsoft? Neil Obstat --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003 |
#48
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An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist
Graham wrote:
Did you go and read the supplied info at the link I posted. It clearly states what can and cannot be done with an OEM disc. You total ****ing idiotic ****-headed pillock. You can't just post a ****ing link then tell people to go and read it. You have to quote the text and argue why it supports your position, you stupid ****ing ****. Kindergarten kids debate better than that, you ****witted ****. The earth is flat: www.flat-earth.org/ read the link. The proof is there. Get the idea, you ****ing fool? No? I figured as much. -- Kadaitcha Man: Usenet Anarchist - http://kadaitcha.kicks-ass.org:83/ Anarchy is having to put up with things that **** you off. MVP - Most Valueless Prostitute |
#49
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An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist
D.Currie wrote:
Personally, I'd like to see some way to enforce the rule that OEMs have to support the software. Or maybe lose the ability to sell OEM. There is no way to enforce this rule. It is always possible for the unethical provider to come up with a plausible excuse for non-support. As a small system builder, my customers can come in and ask me questions face-to-face, and that's fine. Or they'll call. But I also get plenty of calls from people who have bought from the big guys, and they can't get an answer. And as a result, the unethical providers are dumping their support costs on your back -- increasing their profits at your expense. Their shareholder dividends are the direct result of your altruism -- and this is a very conscious and deliberate policy on their part IMO. Then there are the people who sell the oem software with trinkets, and have no intention or ability to answer questions. See above. Another example of the same. You've just described simply a more-obvious example... I don't mind answering customer's questions, and even the not-yet customers -- I figure some day I will get their business. No. Many customers are just as unethical as the abovementioned providers. They'll rape you and leave you freezing -- pay you 5 cents on the dollar and scream with outrage at that -- and drive your business into the ground. Save your time and energy for clients who come to you straight-out looking for value and willing to pay a fair price in the first place. These are the only people worth your time and energy. But it does irritate me that others shirk the responsibility to give the technical support they're supposed to. They aren't footing the cost for proper support, so they sell their stuff cheap, which is fine for the customer until they need help. And in the meantime, I'm providing free tech support in the hopes that I'll get work from that person in the meantime. You're a fool to give these people the time of day. "Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote... "Testy" wrote... Personally I think it is time to discontinue the OEM program and have every maker include a full CD. Agreed. I am tired of this industry's inane appeals to the lowest-common-denominator cheapthink-element in our society. The braindead marketeering policies currently in effect are a *very efficient* way to ensure that *anyone* with enough brains to amass the cash to buy a PC will *surely* avoid buying one from any of the common suppliers. And now you know why we're having this slump -- and why it won't go away until we replace the airheads with engineers and start producing computers with solid performance instead of stalling and sputtering insanely unreliable junk. Best I can do for now. tm Bill |
#50
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An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist
"Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message = ... I knew you weren't talkin' about me :-) =20 You're a ****ing cockeyed, arse ****ed, pillocking, bint bred, gormless = **** brain! This bitch heaps praise on you, as her code of ethics, for you not using = the expletives that she "would assume" you'd use (in her self-honouring = mind) to the OPs complaint letter. Yet you (at/or MS) remove(s) messages = that you('d) otherwise deem offensive. This **** regularly ("regularly = being 50-100 times/day) calls others, ****wits, cretins, morons, etc. = Yet you shine through MS customer service excellence, by telling the OP = INUT, that he's ****ed into a cocked hat, AFAMSIC, by then acknowledging = a known ****'s praise on you and ignoring real customer concerns. |
#51
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An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist
I think Ted has a few issues - too bad he doesn't have anything to say from the
other orifice in his body "Ted" """"""""""""""" wrote in message s.com... "Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message ... I knew you weren't talkin' about me :-) You're a ****ing cockeyed, arse ****ed, pillocking, bint bred, gormless **** brain! This bitch heaps praise on you, as her code of ethics, for you not using the expletives that she "would assume" you'd use (in her self-honouring mind) to the OPs complaint letter. Yet you (at/or MS) remove(s) messages that you('d) otherwise deem offensive. This **** regularly ("regularly being 50-100 times/day) calls others, ****wits, cretins, morons, etc. Yet you shine through MS customer service excellence, by telling the OP INUT, that he's ****ed into a cocked hat, AFAMSIC, by then acknowledging a known ****'s praise on you and ignoring real customer concerns. |
#52
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An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist
"Gail" wrote in message = ... I think Ted has a few issues - too bad he doesn't have anything to = say from the other orifice in his body =20 You mean, you get a better understanding of these NGs, while you = aspirate the ferocious gases released out from between the cheeks of = one's bums?=20 By the way, you're a top-posting bint too! |
#53
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An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist
Actually I was inferring that you are spouting from your bum and the result is
quite nauseating. Gee thanks for pointing out that I am a top poster -- I had not noticed that! Wow -- the observation prowness that you profess. I bow low in your presence) "Ted" """"""""""""""" wrote in message s.com... "Gail" wrote in message ... I think Ted has a few issues - too bad he doesn't have anything to say from the other orifice in his body You mean, you get a better understanding of these NGs, while you aspirate the ferocious gases released out from between the cheeks of one's bums? By the way, you're a top-posting bint too! |
#54
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An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist
"Bill Drake" wrote in message ... D.Currie wrote: Personally, I'd like to see some way to enforce the rule that OEMs have to support the software. Or maybe lose the ability to sell OEM. There is no way to enforce this rule. It is always possible for the unethical provider to come up with a plausible excuse for non-support. As a small system builder, my customers can come in and ask me questions face-to-face, and that's fine. Or they'll call. But I also get plenty of calls from people who have bought from the big guys, and they can't get an answer. And as a result, the unethical providers are dumping their support costs on your back -- increasing their profits at your expense. Their shareholder dividends are the direct result of your altruism -- and this is a very conscious and deliberate policy on their part IMO. Then there are the people who sell the oem software with trinkets, and have no intention or ability to answer questions. See above. Another example of the same. You've just described simply a more-obvious example... I don't mind answering customer's questions, and even the not-yet customers -- I figure some day I will get their business. No. Many customers are just as unethical as the abovementioned providers. They'll rape you and leave you freezing -- pay you 5 cents on the dollar and scream with outrage at that -- and drive your business into the ground. Save your time and energy for clients who come to you straight-out looking for value and willing to pay a fair price in the first place. These are the only people worth your time and energy. But it does irritate me that others shirk the responsibility to give the technical support they're supposed to. They aren't footing the cost for proper support, so they sell their stuff cheap, which is fine for the customer until they need help. And in the meantime, I'm providing free tech support in the hopes that I'll get work from that person in the meantime. You're a fool to give these people the time of day. The advice I offer on the phone costs me as little as what responding on these newsgroups does. And the ones on the phone have the potential of becoming customers. Actually I've gotten quite a few customers who've come in for service after calling, since some people, even with instruction, are skittish about doing certain things with their computer. And I have quite a number of customers who ignore their warranty and bring the computer to me for repair. Or I diagnose they problem, they get parts under warranty, and I replace them. So it's not all bad. As far as the enforceability of it, there's no way they could get all of the ones who don't provide support, but they could crack down on the most blatant offenders. And you'd think it would be easy for them to muscle companies like Dell and Gateway and the like. When people call for support and day, "Dell won't help me" they've got the evidence right there. Of course, they won't do it, but it would be nice. |
#55
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An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist
"Ted" """"""""""""""" wrote in message s.com... "Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message ... I knew you weren't talkin' about me :-) You're a ****ing cockeyed, arse ****ed, pillocking, bint bred, gormless **** brain! This one sentence clearly defines what and who YOU are. PLONK. |
#56
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An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist
In article , "D.Currie"
wrote: The advice I offer on the phone costs me as little as what responding on these newsgroups does. And the ones on the phone have the potential of becoming customers. A lot of people make this same assumption when posting to Usenet - that they are engaging in a dialogue, that only their correspondents are involved in. For every person that writes a post in Usenet, there are at least a dozen, up to several hundred, that read that post. The advice you offer here may be more valuable than advice you offer over the phone, which is very definitely a one-to-one medium. Actually I've gotten quite a few customers who've come in for service after calling, since some people, even with instruction, are skittish about doing certain things with their computer. And I have quite a number of customers who ignore their warranty and bring the computer to me for repair. Or I diagnose they problem, they get parts under warranty, and I replace them. So it's not all bad. There's a lot to be said for treating everyone nicely - it's a great way to attract new business. "I shan't buy my computer from the company that treated me like an irritation even when they were supposed to be obliged to help me; I'll buy it from the company that treated me like a valued customer even though I hadn't bought anything from them yet". Of course, there has to be some balance, otherwise you get freeloaders taking advantage of you, or even just a wealth of well-intentioned newcomers who just haven't got around to buying from you, and put you in the red as a result. As far as the enforceability of it, there's no way they could get all of the ones who don't provide support, but they could crack down on the most blatant offenders. And you'd think it would be easy for them to muscle companies like Dell and Gateway and the like. When people call for support and day, "Dell won't help me" they've got the evidence right there. Of course, the problem with that is that it takes a lot of effort to allege contract breach, and when you do, it's not generally a quick or satisfactory solution that comes out of the other side. Alun. ~~~~ |
#57
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An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist
D.Currie wrote:
"Bill Drake" wrote... D.Currie wrote: Personally, I'd like to see some way to enforce the rule that OEMs have to support the software. Or maybe lose the ability to sell OEM. There is no way to enforce this rule. It is always possible for the unethical provider to come up with a plausible excuse for non-support. As a small system builder, my customers can come in and ask me questions face-to-face, and that's fine. Or they'll call. But I also get plenty of calls from people who have bought from the big guys, and they can't get an answer. And as a result, the unethical providers are dumping their support costs on your back -- increasing their profits at your expense. Their shareholder dividends are the direct result of your altruism -- and this is a very conscious and deliberate policy on their part IMO. Then there are the people who sell the oem software with trinkets, and have no intention or ability to answer questions. See above. Another example of the same. You've just described simply a more-obvious example... I don't mind answering customer's questions, and even the not-yet customers -- I figure some day I will get their business. No. Many customers are just as unethical as the abovementioned providers. They'll rape you and leave you freezing -- pay you 5 cents on the dollar and scream with outrage at that -- and drive your business into the ground. Save your time and energy for clients who come to you straight-out looking for value and willing to pay a fair price in the first place. These are the only people worth your time and energy. But it does irritate me that others shirk the responsibility to give the technical support they're supposed to. They aren't footing the cost for proper support, so they sell their stuff cheap, which is fine for the customer until they need help. And in the meantime, I'm providing free tech support in the hopes that I'll get work from that person in the meantime. You're a fool to give these people the time of day. The advice I offer on the phone costs me as little as what responding on these newsgroups does. And the ones on the phone have the potential of becoming customers. If you are successful at this, you will find yourself spending more and more time giving "free" advice to these people. As long as you *have* free time -- this is fine. It's when you get busy and start saying things like "I can't help you now" -- that you will find there are unreasonable and loutish clients who are simply rude and demanding -- even when you are being a "nice guy". Actually I've gotten quite a few customers who've come in for service after calling, since some people, even with instruction, are skittish about doing certain things with their computer. And I have quite a number of customers who ignore their warranty and bring the computer to me for repair. Or I diagnose they problem, they get parts under warranty, and I replace them. So it's not all bad. Fine. They're paying you for this service. As far as the enforceability of it, there's no way they could get all of the ones who don't provide support, but they could crack down on the most blatant offenders. And you'd think it would be easy for them to muscle companies like Dell and Gateway and the like. When people call for support and day, "Dell won't help me" they've got the evidence right there. Of course, they won't do it, but it would be nice. I noticed you didn't quote the further paragraphs in my previous post. Nor did you comment on that. Yet you made the above remark. I find that sad. The "Of course, they won't do it" is *intimately" tied into the whole airhead marketing-mentality avoidance-of-responsibility mindset that dumps marketeer-created problems into other people's laps. And your high-minded "noble" attitude to the problem is part of the reason this silly nonsense continues. Marketeers need to be ground up, spit out and pounded into the ground for turning this business into a circus that only a fool could love. Best I can do for now. tm Bill |
#58
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An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist
With a mouth like yours you should not only be banned from this newsgroup
but from The internet as a whole.!!! idiot "Mister Charlie" wrote in message ... "Ted" """"""""""""""" wrote in message s.com... "Mike Brannigan [MSFT]" wrote in message ... I knew you weren't talkin' about me :-) You're a ****ing cockeyed, arse ****ed, pillocking, bint bred, gormless **** brain! This one sentence clearly defines what and who YOU are. PLONK. |
#59
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An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist
"Alun Jones [MS MVP]" wrote in message . .. In article , "D.Currie" wrote: The advice I offer on the phone costs me as little as what responding on these newsgroups does. And the ones on the phone have the potential of becoming customers. A lot of people make this same assumption when posting to Usenet - that they are engaging in a dialogue, that only their correspondents are involved in. For every person that writes a post in Usenet, there are at least a dozen, up to several hundred, that read that post. The advice you offer here may be more valuable than advice you offer over the phone, which is very definitely a one-to-one medium. I wasn't commenting on how many people get helped per message, just that helping on the newsgroup and helping on the phone "cost" me the same as far as my effort is concerned. And the only reason I said that was because someone else had called me a fool for helping people who aren't customers. The newsgroups is less likely to yield paying customers, but I do it anyway, as do many others. Actually I've gotten quite a few customers who've come in for service after calling, since some people, even with instruction, are skittish about doing certain things with their computer. And I have quite a number of customers who ignore their warranty and bring the computer to me for repair. Or I diagnose they problem, they get parts under warranty, and I replace them. So it's not all bad. There's a lot to be said for treating everyone nicely - it's a great way to attract new business. "I shan't buy my computer from the company that treated me like an irritation even when they were supposed to be obliged to help me; I'll buy it from the company that treated me like a valued customer even though I hadn't bought anything from them yet". Of course, there has to be some balance, otherwise you get freeloaders taking advantage of you, or even just a wealth of well-intentioned newcomers who just haven't got around to buying from you, and put you in the red as a result. There's always a point where I can say that I don't have time to chat, or that the problem is not one that can be fixed easily over the phone. But there's always some lagtime in the day, and it's better to be doing something than nothing. As far as the enforceability of it, there's no way they could get all of the ones who don't provide support, but they could crack down on the most blatant offenders. And you'd think it would be easy for them to muscle companies like Dell and Gateway and the like. When people call for support and day, "Dell won't help me" they've got the evidence right there. Of course, the problem with that is that it takes a lot of effort to allege contract breach, and when you do, it's not generally a quick or satisfactory solution that comes out of the other side. Suppose so. The ones I'd really like to hang are the ones who sell supposed "full" versions of the OS, then when the customer gets it, it's OEM, it won't do an upgrade, they can't get support for MS, and they usually can't return the product. |
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An open letter to Microsoft's support personnel, should they exist
"Bill Drake" wrote in message ... D.Currie wrote: "Bill Drake" wrote... D.Currie wrote: Personally, I'd like to see some way to enforce the rule that OEMs have to support the software. Or maybe lose the ability to sell OEM. There is no way to enforce this rule. It is always possible for the unethical provider to come up with a plausible excuse for non-support. As a small system builder, my customers can come in and ask me questions face-to-face, and that's fine. Or they'll call. But I also get plenty of calls from people who have bought from the big guys, and they can't get an answer. And as a result, the unethical providers are dumping their support costs on your back -- increasing their profits at your expense. Their shareholder dividends are the direct result of your altruism -- and this is a very conscious and deliberate policy on their part IMO. Then there are the people who sell the oem software with trinkets, and have no intention or ability to answer questions. See above. Another example of the same. You've just described simply a more-obvious example... I don't mind answering customer's questions, and even the not-yet customers -- I figure some day I will get their business. No. Many customers are just as unethical as the abovementioned providers. They'll rape you and leave you freezing -- pay you 5 cents on the dollar and scream with outrage at that -- and drive your business into the ground. Save your time and energy for clients who come to you straight-out looking for value and willing to pay a fair price in the first place. These are the only people worth your time and energy. But it does irritate me that others shirk the responsibility to give the technical support they're supposed to. They aren't footing the cost for proper support, so they sell their stuff cheap, which is fine for the customer until they need help. And in the meantime, I'm providing free tech support in the hopes that I'll get work from that person in the meantime. You're a fool to give these people the time of day. The advice I offer on the phone costs me as little as what responding on these newsgroups does. And the ones on the phone have the potential of becoming customers. If you are successful at this, you will find yourself spending more and more time giving "free" advice to these people. As long as you *have* free time -- this is fine. I've owned the store for 6 years, and I've managed to work it out. Some things can't easily be solved over the phone, and some people should not stick their hands inside their computers. In six years, I've had very few people who simply waste my time, and if I have other things that need to be done, that's what I do. If it's a problem that intrigues me, or a person the I enjoy helping, it's my time to waste. It's when you get busy and start saying things like "I can't help you now" -- that you will find there are unreasonable and loutish clients who are simply rude and demanding -- even when you are being a "nice guy". I've done that. No one's gotten rude or demanding. Actually I've gotten quite a few customers who've come in for service after calling, since some people, even with instruction, are skittish about doing certain things with their computer. And I have quite a number of customers who ignore their warranty and bring the computer to me for repair. Or I diagnose they problem, they get parts under warranty, and I replace them. So it's not all bad. Fine. They're paying you for this service. And many have come to me because they called first, and I offered some simple suggestions. If it was something they couldn't do, or didn't work, they bring the work to me. It doesn't always happen, but we also get a lot of referrals from those sorts of people because we're not rude when people call with questions. As far as the enforceability of it, there's no way they could get all of the ones who don't provide support, but they could crack down on the most blatant offenders. And you'd think it would be easy for them to muscle companies like Dell and Gateway and the like. When people call for support and day, "Dell won't help me" they've got the evidence right there. Of course, they won't do it, but it would be nice. I noticed you didn't quote the further paragraphs in my previous post. Nor did you comment on that. Yet you made the above remark. I find that sad. I snipped after Mike B's header as that seemed to be a response to what he said. Why you find that sad, I don't know, as now that I've looked back on it, you snipped all of his post and responded to Testy's one line. As far as my not commenting on it, this "marketeer" thing seems to be one of your personal hotspots, which is fine. But I tend to respond to things that either I can help with or that I have a comment about because it interests and/or amuses me. I'm sure that you also pick and choose what you respond to. The "Of course, they won't do it" is *intimately" tied into the whole airhead marketing-mentality avoidance-of-responsibility mindset that dumps marketeer-created problems into other people's laps. And your high-minded "noble" attitude to the problem is part of the reason this silly nonsense continues. Oh, I doubt that I'm being noble at all. I help non-customers on the phone because I find that it's a good way to turn a percentage of them into customers. If I look at what it costs me to answers those questions vs. what it costs me for print advertising, then look at the number of customers each gets me, the "being nice to people" on the phone gets me more customers. As far as answering questions on the newsgroup, it's a great way to learn what sorts of problems other people are having on their computers, so that when I run across the same issue with a customer's computer, I have some ideas what to look for. It's certainly more interesting than memorizing the knowledge base. Marketeers need to be ground up, spit out and pounded into the ground for turning this business into a circus that only a fool could love. Well, you've already called me a fool, so there you have it. |
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