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#31
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xp upgrade from 98se
JT wrote:
"Usually" being the operative word. Sorry, but I many others don't wish to gamble seven plus years of software purchases, updates, and data on "usually". What's the gamble? In the rare instances where an upgrade doesn't work, the computer is no worse off than if he'd prepared for a clean installation. The mistake that you and a few others make is the false assumption that most users have the technical ability to make such backups. It's no assumption. It takes little more intelligence to back up one's data, than it does to pound sand. You're either grossly under-estimating the intelligence of the average human, or vastly over-exaggerating the difficulty of safely using a computer. For most users, your caveat to "have backups and anything else needed to reinstall" would be virtually impossible to achieve without hands-on expert assistance. Nonsense. Are you saying that most computer users are too dim to manage a few mouse-clicks or to master the concept of click-and-drag? How, then, are they using their computers in the first place? -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once. - RAH |
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#32
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xp upgrade from 98se
"Bruce Chambers" wrote in message ... JT wrote: "Usually" being the operative word. Sorry, but I many others don't wish to gamble seven plus years of software purchases, updates, and data on "usually". What's the gamble? In the rare instances where an upgrade doesn't work, the computer is no worse off than if he'd prepared for a clean installation. I think you missed the point... although an upgrade generally does complete... that does not guarantee a 100% working or stable system. If the upgrade "hoses" the system...unless the drive was backed up... there is nothing to go back to. Unless the data itself was backed up... at that point one would have to perform a clean install *without* formatting etc to at least keep the data. In my opinion...the proper way to upgrade win98 to XP is to first back up the data...and confirm its good. Export any OE and IE data.(Netscaspe etc) Then boot with the XP cd and format the drive NTFS and do a clean install. Reinstall the apps. Import OE and IE data.(etc) Copy the data to the appropriate folders. Yes, it just may take a bit more work... but there is little room for failure. |
#33
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xp upgrade from 98se
The only advantage to formatting ntfs rather converting to ntfs later is
that the files system should run a little faster. However, even that can be rectified with a boot time defragger such as the one in Diskeeper 9 Pro and Perfect Disk which can defrag the file system in addition to the files. This whole thread is simply too esoteric. Veterans to this newsgroup are contantly encouraging users to back up their systems with all sorts of backup programs, frequently Acronis or another imaging program. It cannot be that hard to do, especially if the user has a dvd rewriter or a second hard drive. -- Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine] (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested) "philo" wrote in message ... "Bruce Chambers" wrote in message ... JT wrote: "Usually" being the operative word. Sorry, but I many others don't wish to gamble seven plus years of software purchases, updates, and data on "usually". What's the gamble? In the rare instances where an upgrade doesn't work, the computer is no worse off than if he'd prepared for a clean installation. I think you missed the point... although an upgrade generally does complete... that does not guarantee a 100% working or stable system. If the upgrade "hoses" the system...unless the drive was backed up... there is nothing to go back to. Unless the data itself was backed up... at that point one would have to perform a clean install *without* formatting etc to at least keep the data. In my opinion...the proper way to upgrade win98 to XP is to first back up the data...and confirm its good. Export any OE and IE data.(Netscaspe etc) Then boot with the XP cd and format the drive NTFS and do a clean install. Reinstall the apps. Import OE and IE data.(etc) Copy the data to the appropriate folders. Yes, it just may take a bit more work... but there is little room for failure. |
#34
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xp upgrade from 98se
philo wrote:
I think you missed the point... although an upgrade generally does complete... that does not guarantee a 100% working or stable system. Neither does a clean installation. If the upgrade "hoses" the system...unless the drive was backed up... there is nothing to go back to. Unless the data itself was backed up... Which is why one always backs up data before making any serious changes to an OS, including installing patches and service packs. -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once. - RAH |
#35
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xp upgrade from 98se
"Bruce Chambers" wrote in message ... philo wrote: I think you missed the point... although an upgrade generally does complete... that does not guarantee a 100% working or stable system. Neither does a clean installation. If the upgrade "hoses" the system...unless the drive was backed up... there is nothing to go back to. Unless the data itself was backed up... Which is why one always backs up data before making any serious changes to an OS, including installing patches and service packs. Hey guys... you've all made some great points... and though I may not agree with everyone 100%... I just wanted to say how refreshing it was to talk to everyone in an intelligent and cool manner. None of the stupid name calling and inane comments found on some of the other news groups. A real pleasure and thanks for the great discussion! |
#36
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xp upgrade from 98se
In ,
JT typed: "Ken Blake" wrote: Unlike with previous versions of Windows, an upgrade to XP replaces almost everything, and usually works very well. "Usually" being the operative word. Sorry, but I many others don't wish to gamble seven plus years of software purchases, updates, and data on "usually". I certainly don't think that you should gamble anything, and nowhere did I suggest that. However, don't assume that doing an upgrade relieves you of the need to backup your data, etc. before beginning. Before starting to upgrade, it's always prudent to recognize that things like a sudden power loss can occur in the middle of it and cause the loss of everything. For that reason you should make sure you have backups and anything else you need to reinstall if the worst happens. The mistake that you and a few others make is the false assumption that most users have the technical ability to make such backups. I think you miss the critical point entirely. Backup is essential, whether you are doing an upgrade or not. Not having a backup is *always* "gambl[ing] seven plus years of software purchases, updates, and data" and is a foolhardy thing to do. Although making backups is generally easy and well within the technical skills of most beginners I know (with a little help to get started), I make no assumptions about what technical abilities most users have. But anyone who doesn't have that ability desparately needs to acquire it. It's not hard to learn and is a far greater need than upgrading your version of Windows. For most users, your caveat to "have backups and anything else needed to reinstall" would be virtually impossible to achieve without hands-on expert assistance. Nonsense! That's not at all true in my experience. There may be an occasional person like that, but the great majority of beginners I'ved worked with have easily learned to do backups with just a little help from me. No, the safest way to effect an XP Pro upgrade is to first have someone who knows what they are doing either image the drive(s) beforehand and store the image externally or clone the drive(s) beforehand. That way, reverting back to a working Win98 system is just a matter of restoring the image or swapping drives. That's one form of backup, and it happens to be a good one for many people. It's the method I personally use. But it's not the only choice. -- Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User Please reply to the newsgroup |
#37
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xp upgrade from 98se
In ,
philo typed: "Usually works" and "almost as good" are not words in my vocabulary! Then you need to enrich your vocabulary. The point I was making when I said "usually works" was that because it "usually works," it makes sense to try that way first. If it doesn't work, you can always revert to a clean installation. Do you own a car? Does it always work or does it "usually work"? Do you refrain from using it because it only "usually works"? Is your car a Ford (substitute Chevrolet, Toyota, or whatever you have)? Why don't you have a Rolls-Royce (substitute Ferrari, Maserati, or whatever you think is the best)? Your Ford (or whatever) is only "almost as good." "Usually works" and "almost as good" are facts of life. Nothing is guaranteed to work all the time, and very few of us have the luxury of being able to always buy the best of everything. -- Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User Please reply to the newsgroup |
#38
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xp upgrade from 98se
In ,
philo typed: "Bruce Chambers" wrote in message ... JT wrote: "Usually" being the operative word. Sorry, but I many others don't wish to gamble seven plus years of software purchases, updates, and data on "usually". What's the gamble? In the rare instances where an upgrade doesn't work, the computer is no worse off than if he'd prepared for a clean installation. I think you missed the point... although an upgrade generally does complete... that does not guarantee a 100% working or stable system. If the upgrade "hoses" the system...unless the drive was backed up... there is nothing to go back to. On the contrary, I think you're the one who missed the point. Bruce's comment was in reply to JT's reply to my message recommending at least *trying* an upgrade first, but *only* after first making a backup. I said "However, don't assume that doing an upgrade relieves you of the need to backup your data, etc. before beginning. Before starting to upgrade, it's always prudent to recognize that things like a sudden power loss can occur in the middle of it and cause the loss of everything. For that reason you should make sure you have backups and anything else you need to reinstall if the worst happens." -- Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User Please reply to the newsgroup |
#39
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xp upgrade from 98se
"Ken Blake" wrote in message ... In , philo typed: "Usually works" and "almost as good" are not words in my vocabulary! Then you need to enrich your vocabulary. The point I was making when I said "usually works" was that because it "usually works," it makes sense to try that way first. If it doesn't work, you can always revert to a clean installation. As long as your important data is backed up...I have no problem with your statement Do you own a car? Does it always work or does it "usually work"? Do you refrain from using it because it only "usually works"? Is your car a Ford (substitute Chevrolet, Toyota, or whatever you have)? Why don't you have a Rolls-Royce (substitute Ferrari, Maserati, or whatever you think is the best)? Your Ford (or whatever) is only "almost as good." "Usually works" and "almost as good" are facts of life. Nothing is guaranteed to work all the time, and very few of us have the luxury of being able to always buy the best of everything. Now you may not believe this, but I do not own a car (or a TV)... however i do have a "company van" .It now has close to 90,000 miles on it and has *never* failed yet...I keep it maintained very well...better than if I owned my own car. Same with my computer systems... If one goes down for maintenance or an upgrade... I have quite a few more that can go on-line... so I am *never* without a working computer here...generally I have over a dozen ready to go on-line at any time. Also have 3 UPS systems and enough batteries to run everything for over 48 hours. Maybe I am a bit too over-cautious... I wear a belt but no suspenders...so as you can see...I am willing to take an occasional risk here are links to *some* of my backup systems www.plazaearth.com/philo/comps.jpg www.plazaearth.com/philo/batt.jpg |
#40
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xp upgrade from 98se
In ,
philo typed: "Ken Blake" wrote in message ... In , philo typed: "Usually works" and "almost as good" are not words in my vocabulary! Then you need to enrich your vocabulary. The point I was making when I said "usually works" was that because it "usually works," it makes sense to try that way first. If it doesn't work, you can always revert to a clean installation. As long as your important data is backed up...I have no problem with your statement Then it would seem that we basically agree. Having a backup was an important part of my recommendation. -- Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User Please reply to the newsgroup |
#41
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xp upgrade from 98se
"Ken Blake" wrote in message ... In , philo typed: "Ken Blake" wrote in message ... In , philo typed: "Usually works" and "almost as good" are not words in my vocabulary! Then you need to enrich your vocabulary. The point I was making when I said "usually works" was that because it "usually works," it makes sense to try that way first. If it doesn't work, you can always revert to a clean installation. As long as your important data is backed up...I have no problem with your statement Then it would seem that we basically agree. Having a backup was an important part of my recommendation. yes.. it was not all that long ago that i had an extreme phobia of computers and was just using a manual typewriter... then thanks to my girlfriend who gave me her old computer... i was bitten by the bug...and lurked (and occasionally posted) on some of the win98 groups... i got a *lot* of good advice from you (and others) and doubt if i ever thanked you so now, five years later: Thanks!!!! |
#42
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xp upgrade from 98se
In ,
philo typed: "Ken Blake" wrote in message ... In , philo typed: "Ken Blake" wrote in message ... In , philo typed: "Usually works" and "almost as good" are not words in my vocabulary! Then you need to enrich your vocabulary. The point I was making when I said "usually works" was that because it "usually works," it makes sense to try that way first. If it doesn't work, you can always revert to a clean installation. As long as your important data is backed up...I have no problem with your statement Then it would seem that we basically agree. Having a backup was an important part of my recommendation. yes.. it was not all that long ago that i had an extreme phobia of computers and was just using a manual typewriter... then thanks to my girlfriend who gave me her old computer... i was bitten by the bug...and lurked (and occasionally posted) on some of the win98 groups... i got a *lot* of good advice from you (and others) and doubt if i ever thanked you so now, five years later: Thanks!!!! Thanks very much for the kind words, and you're most welcome. |
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