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Windows 8.1 user accounts, you have GOT to be kidding.



 
 
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  #46  
Old September 23rd 14, 08:26 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
. . .winston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,345
Default Windows 8.1 user accounts, you have GOT to be kidding.

Joe User wrote:
On 23/09/14 04:53, . . .winston wrote:
Joe User wrote:
On 22/09/14 00:14, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 11:28:31 +0100, Joe User wrote:

Actually I think the solution is quite simple, put a password on the
hidden admin account.

Ça va sans dire...

Does it? How many everyday uninterested users know about this I wonder.

Ads
  #47  
Old September 23rd 14, 09:10 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Joe User[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Windows 8.1 user accounts, you have GOT to be kidding.

On 23/09/14 08:26, . . .winston wrote:
Joe User wrote:
On 23/09/14 04:53, . . .winston wrote:
Joe User wrote:
On 22/09/14 00:14, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 11:28:31 +0100, Joe User wrote:

Actually I think the solution is quite simple, put a password on the
hidden admin account.

Ça va sans dire...

Does it? How many everyday uninterested users know about this I wonder.


How many uninterested users actually care.


Well quite, or to put it another way, what you don't know can't hurt you
eh?

Well that I'm afraid is a very *dangerous attitude* and is guaranteed to
expose you to all manner of nasty little spooks and goblins.

snipped irrelevant quote


and again

I'm not missing the point, I see your primary role as protecting the
organization (using 4 new Win 8.1 pcs) for which you benevolently chose
to volunteer your services. Preaching to us here is secondary and
futile especially since that charitable organization gains no additional
benefit by doing so...setup those machines properly then ask what else
you can do next


Firstly, you have no idea what my 'primary role' is nor do I have any
inclination to tell you. Suggesting you do just makes you look like an ass.

Secondly, as a long time veteran of the c.o.l.a wars I know it is
pointless trying to reason with someone who's blinkered outlook and
entrenched refusal to admit that anything could possibly be wrong with
their favorite expensive malware blinds them to the obvious and legion
failures of said product.

Actually I have a social conscious, not something you are apparently
burdened with. It concerns me that there are millions of un-knowing
innocents out there happily using something that is so insecure.

There is nothing you or your fellow conspirators can say or do to
convince me that a hidden unprotected Administrator account is anything
other than stupid at the very least, dangerous to the average user and
most disturbingly accepted as perfectly acceptable by those in a
position to do most harm.

Henceforth I will do everything I can to make as many people aware of
this issue and will suggest that we ditch the trash, install a secure OS
and sandbox the Win8.1 malware so we can use it without worrying about
who's watching.

I have you and your ilk to thank for opening my eyes.
Kudos.



--
Not confused, just ... bewildered
  #48  
Old September 23rd 14, 06:02 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Caver1
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 335
Default Windows 8.1 user accounts, you have GOT to be kidding.

On 09/22/2014 02:54 PM, Joe User wrote:
On 22/09/14 19:33, Caver1 wrote:
On 09/22/2014 12:51 PM, felmon wrote:
On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:19:46 +0100, Joe User wrote:

In circa 20 years of
installing and configuring *nix based systems I can't remember having
ever been presented with the opportunity to create any sort of
adminstrator (or sudoer) account without supplying some sort of
verifying credentials first.

I thought with the exceptions of Puppy Linux and Knoppix? I seem to
recall they run as root. but I guess one is advised against actually
installing the latter, not sure about the former.


Linux does not set up a root root account by default.


Not so, several Linux based distributions I have experience of have a
default root account with no password. A standard user is created on
install and protected with a compulsory password, this user is added to
sudoers


I realized that I stated that wrong. When you install a Linux OS the
root account is there but the user created at that time is a limited
user that can elevate himself to root. Not login as root.

When you log in as a sudoer you can enable the root account with sudo
passwd root.


That user has the privilege to elevate to root but does not login as
root. That user logs in as a limited user and then at sometime that user
can elevate himself as root. To elevate to root the command is either
The command for elevating as root in Ubuntu, as I don't know Redhat
distros, can be either sudo su, gksu with command following, sudo with
command following, then enter password when prompted.

You can only
elevate to root temporarily. You can set up a root account and run as
root but that is not recommended. Only the user set up on installation
has the ability to be elevated to root.


Incorrect, any account can be added to sudoers



Why didn't you quote the whole statement as I did say you can give a
user root privileges.
Any user can be added to sudoers but you have to be root to create a new
user with sudo privileges. Then as root you can limit what privileges
that user has when elevated to root.
http://www.wallpaperama.com/forums/h...root-t314.html
You can create a user that runs as root permanently but that is not
recommended. That can only be done after installation not during.
As far as creating/giving a user root privileges Linux is no different
than Windows in that you have to be root/Admin to be able to do so.
The main difference is that Windows creates the first user as Admin
where Linux creates that user as a limited user with elevation privileges.

--
Caver1
  #49  
Old September 23rd 14, 06:25 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
steve[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Windows 8.1 user accounts, you have GOT to be kidding.

On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 09:10:40 +0100, Joe User wrote:

On 23/09/14 08:26, . . .winston wrote:
Joe User wrote:
On 23/09/14 04:53, . . .winston wrote:
Joe User wrote:
On 22/09/14 00:14, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 11:28:31 +0100, Joe User wrote:

Actually I think the solution is quite simple, put a password on the
hidden admin account.

Ça va sans dire...

Does it? How many everyday uninterested users know about this I wonder.


How many uninterested users actually care.

Well quite, or to put it another way, what you don't know can't hurt you
eh?

Well that I'm afraid is a very *dangerous attitude* and is guaranteed to
expose you to all manner of nasty little spooks and goblins.

snipped irrelevant quote


and again

I'm not missing the point, I see your primary role as protecting the
organization (using 4 new Win 8.1 pcs) for which you benevolently chose
to volunteer your services. Preaching to us here is secondary and
futile especially since that charitable organization gains no additional
benefit by doing so...setup those machines properly then ask what else
you can do next


Firstly, you have no idea what my 'primary role' is nor do I have any
inclination to tell you. Suggesting you do just makes you look like an ass.

Secondly, as a long time veteran of the c.o.l.a wars I know it is
pointless trying to reason with someone who's blinkered outlook and
entrenched refusal to admit that anything could possibly be wrong with
their favorite expensive malware blinds them to the obvious and legion
failures of said product.

Actually I have a social conscious, not something you are apparently
burdened with. It concerns me that there are millions of un-knowing
innocents out there happily using something that is so insecure.

There is nothing you or your fellow conspirators can say or do to
convince me that a hidden unprotected Administrator account is anything
other than stupid at the very least, dangerous to the average user and
most disturbingly accepted as perfectly acceptable by those in a
position to do most harm.

Henceforth I will do everything I can to make as many people aware of
this issue and will suggest that we ditch the trash, install a secure OS
and sandbox the Win8.1 malware so we can use it without worrying about
who's watching.

I have you and your ilk to thank for opening my eyes.
Kudos.



Bugger off Lindroid troll
  #50  
Old September 23rd 14, 06:39 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Joe User[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Windows 8.1 user accounts, you have GOT to be kidding.

On 23/09/14 18:02, Caver1 wrote:
On 09/22/2014 02:54 PM, Joe User wrote:
On 22/09/14 19:33, Caver1 wrote:
On 09/22/2014 12:51 PM, felmon wrote:
On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:19:46 +0100, Joe User wrote:


snip

Not so, several Linux based distributions I have experience of have a
default root account with no password. A standard user is created on
install and protected with a compulsory password, this user is added to
sudoers


I realized that I stated that wrong. When you install a Linux OS the
root account is there but the user created at that time is a limited
user that can elevate himself to root. Not login as root.


This isn't a Linux group is it so I'm not sure this is the correct place
for this discussion. I suggest you read the relevant man pages as you
seem a little confused about a number of commands and their exact semantics.

snip

You can create a user that runs as root permanently but that is not
recommended. That can only be done after installation not during.


I'm sorry but this is simply incorrect. All of the distros that I am
familiar with create a root account on installation. No password is
assigned thus preventing anyone logging in as root.

To enable the root account a sudoer sets the password from the command
line, until that time the root account cannot be accessed, this is quite
different from the hidden unprotected Administrator account lurking in
the shadows of your Windows 8.1 machine.

Some distros, notably Slackware create and set the password on the Root
account during installation, you then log in as Root from the start.
Download and install Slackware if you don't believe me.

As for the rest of your reply, please read the relevant man pages.

--
Not confused, just ... bewildered
  #51  
Old September 23rd 14, 06:42 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Joe User[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Windows 8.1 user accounts, you have GOT to be kidding.

On 23/09/14 18:25, steve wrote:
On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 09:10:40 +0100, Joe User wrote:


snip

Bugger off Lindroid troll


Ha ha, very funny.
Do you know DanC?

--
Not confused, just ... bewildered
  #52  
Old September 23rd 14, 06:45 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Gene E. Bloch[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,485
Default Windows 8.1 user accounts, you have GOT to be kidding.

On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:18:06 +0100, Joe User wrote:

You are (possibly deliberately) missing the point.


You are (perhaps not deliberately) making me laugh out loud.

Well, OK, it's just a wry smile...

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
  #53  
Old September 23rd 14, 06:47 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
steve[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Windows 8.1 user accounts, you have GOT to be kidding.

On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 18:42:11 +0100, Joe User wrote:

On 23/09/14 18:25, steve wrote:
On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 09:10:40 +0100, Joe User wrote:


snip

Bugger off Lindroid troll


Ha ha, very funny.
Do you know DanC?


No I don't know him..I've seen his posts of course. I must say he is
interesting. At least I didn't call you a drooling stooge.
Now bugger off noob
  #54  
Old September 23rd 14, 06:55 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Joe User[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Windows 8.1 user accounts, you have GOT to be kidding.

On 23/09/14 18:47, steve wrote:
On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 18:42:11 +0100, Joe User wrote:

On 23/09/14 18:25, steve wrote:
On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 09:10:40 +0100, Joe User wrote:


snip

Bugger off Lindroid troll


Ha ha, very funny.
Do you know DanC?


No I don't know him..I've seen his posts of course. I must say he is
interesting. At least I didn't call you a drooling stooge.
Now bugger off noob


Never going to happen fanboi.

--
Not confused, just ... bewildered
  #55  
Old September 23rd 14, 08:36 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Good Guy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,354
Default Windows 8.1 user accounts, you have GOT to be kidding.

On 23/09/2014 18:25, steve wrote:


Bugger off Lindroid troll



You can't say such things to a linux junkies. He has been sent here to
rubbish Windows 8.1 can't you understand this? Linux junkies seems to
feel very lonely because there isn't much going on in Linux Operating
system so they come here and post completely unfounded rubbish branded
as facts and research.

It is time to let them die silently.


  #56  
Old September 23rd 14, 08:51 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Joe User[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Windows 8.1 user accounts, you have GOT to be kidding.

On 23/09/14 20:36, Good Guy wrote:
On 23/09/2014 18:25, steve wrote:


Bugger off Lindroid troll



You can't say such things to a linux junkies. He has been sent here to
rubbish Windows 8.1 can't you understand this? Linux junkies seems to
feel very lonely because there isn't much going on in Linux Operating
system so they come here and post completely unfounded rubbish branded
as facts and research.


Oh my, you really don't have a clue do you.
Some of your own 'MVPs' seem to agree with me that it isn't
"completely unfounded rubbish branded as facts and research"

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/w...4-71aa0f40397b

Do try to keep up.

--
Not confused, just ... bewildered
  #57  
Old September 23rd 14, 09:34 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
. . .winston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,345
Default Windows 8.1 user accounts, you have GOT to be kidding.

Joe User wrote:
On 23/09/14 08:26, . . .winston wrote:
Joe User wrote:
On 23/09/14 04:53, . . .winston wrote:
Joe User wrote:
On 22/09/14 00:14, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 11:28:31 +0100, Joe User wrote:

Actually I think the solution is quite simple, put a password on the
hidden admin account.

Ça va sans dire...

Does it? How many everyday uninterested users know about this I
wonder.


How many uninterested users actually care.

Well quite, or to put it another way, what you don't know can't hurt you
eh?

Well that I'm afraid is a very *dangerous attitude* and is guaranteed to
expose you to all manner of nasty little spooks and goblins.

snipped irrelevant quote


and again

I'm not missing the point, I see your primary role as protecting the
organization (using 4 new Win 8.1 pcs) for which you benevolently chose
to volunteer your services. Preaching to us here is secondary and
futile especially since that charitable organization gains no additional
benefit by doing so...setup those machines properly then ask what else
you can do next


Firstly, you have no idea what my 'primary role' is nor do I have any
inclination to tell you. Suggesting you do just makes you look like an ass.

Secondly, as a long time veteran of the c.o.l.a wars I know it is
pointless trying to reason with someone who's blinkered outlook and
entrenched refusal to admit that anything could possibly be wrong with
their favorite expensive malware blinds them to the obvious and legion
failures of said product.

Actually I have a social conscious, not something you are apparently
burdened with. It concerns me that there are millions of un-knowing
innocents out there happily using something that is so insecure.

There is nothing you or your fellow conspirators can say or do to
convince me that a hidden unprotected Administrator account is anything
other than stupid at the very least, dangerous to the average user and
most disturbingly accepted as perfectly acceptable by those in a
position to do most harm.

Henceforth I will do everything I can to make as many people aware of
this issue and will suggest that we ditch the trash, install a secure OS
and sandbox the Win8.1 malware so we can use it without worrying about
who's watching.

I have you and your ilk to thank for opening my eyes.
Kudos.





Keep in mind you presented the problem and asked what is our solution
for said problem.

qp
OK, here's the problem.

I'm a volunteer for a local charity. Recently we received a grant to
replace our aging equipment and got 4 spanky new computers running
Windows 8.1. A wide range of people have access to these machines
including the elderly, the homeless, the unemployed the disadvantaged,
dispossessed, and other groups on the outskirts of society. We have no
idea who's using the machines at any moment as I and the other
reasonably competent volunteer can't be there all the time. We *know*
someone has been trying to get into the guts of the things and now we
are beginning to understand how they might be doing it.

====== ****What is our solution?*****
/qp

Your obvious role lacking any other valid information is to resolve your
stated problem. The solution is simple - protect all admin accounts and
setup standard user accounts for any users including the elderly, the
homeless, the unemployed, the disadvantaged and other outskirts of
society to ensure no one, not even you, can compromise the users and the
service provided by the charity's computers (not yours, being just a
volunteer).

If you feel obliged to be the savior for all of mankind's Windows 8.1
computers don't be too surprised when the only person genuflecting is in
the mirror.

Who knows the charity might even receive more 8.1 computers...maybe you
can protect those admin accounts too.

What you've effectively done and sad to say is that you've used a
charitable organization's grant of '4 spanky new computers running
Windows 8.1' as a soapbox for your 'Look what I found'.

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

  #58  
Old September 24th 14, 08:17 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Joe User[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Windows 8.1 user accounts, you have GOT to be kidding.

On 23/09/14 21:34, . . .winston wrote:
Joe User wrote:
On 23/09/14 08:26, . . .winston wrote:
Joe User wrote:
On 23/09/14 04:53, . . .winston wrote:
Joe User wrote:
On 22/09/14 00:14, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 11:28:31 +0100, Joe User wrote:


snip


What you've effectively done and sad to say is that you've used a
charitable organization's grant of '4 spanky new computers running
Windows 8.1' as a soapbox for your 'Look what I found'.


You really do have a vivid imagination don't you.


--
Not confused, just ... bewildered
  #59  
Old September 24th 14, 03:17 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Caver1
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 335
Default Windows 8.1 user accounts, you have GOT to be kidding.

On 09/23/2014 01:39 PM, Joe User wrote:
On 23/09/14 18:02, Caver1 wrote:
On 09/22/2014 02:54 PM, Joe User wrote:
On 22/09/14 19:33, Caver1 wrote:
On 09/22/2014 12:51 PM, felmon wrote:
On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:19:46 +0100, Joe User wrote:


snip

Not so, several Linux based distributions I have experience of have a
default root account with no password. A standard user is created on
install and protected with a compulsory password, this user is added to
sudoers


I realized that I stated that wrong. When you install a Linux OS the
root account is there but the user created at that time is a limited
user that can elevate himself to root. Not login as root.


This isn't a Linux group is it so I'm not sure this is the correct place
for this discussion. I suggest you read the relevant man pages as you
seem a little confused about a number of commands and their exact semantics.

snip

You can create a user that runs as root permanently but that is not
recommended. That can only be done after installation not during.


I'm sorry but this is simply incorrect. All of the distros that I am
familiar with create a root account on installation. No password is
assigned thus preventing anyone logging in as root.


Redhat asks for a root password upon installation, you cannot go further
without setting the root password. Then you set up a regular user which
uses the su command using the root password to elevate to root.
Debian you can setup a root account when installing but you don't have
to. If you do you also provide a root password. If you don't then the
first normal user is set up with sudo privileges.
Ubuntu no root account only normal user with sudo privileges.
OpenSuse no root on installation.
Arch sets up root with password. Then set up a normal user, then give
sudo privileges.
Puppy is made for single user only and as it is made for live running
not install there is no need to protect the system.
Gentoo you set a root password and create a normal user. Gentoo
recommends that you give the normal user sudo rights and not use root.
Distros that are based on the above normally follow the conventions of
that which they are based on.
All Linux distros that I have looked at recommend that you do not login
as root.

To enable the root account a sudoer sets the password from the command
line, until that time the root account cannot be accessed, this is quite
different from the hidden unprotected Administrator account lurking in
the shadows of your Windows 8.1 machine.

Some distros, notably Slackware create and set the password on the Root
account during installation, you then log in as Root from the start.
Download and install Slackware if you don't believe me.


That's true. Slackware also recommends that the first thing that you do
after installation is create a non root user with sudo privileges and
login with that user and not root.

As for the rest of your reply, please read the relevant man pages.


Bye

--
Caver1
  #60  
Old September 24th 14, 04:50 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Joe User[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Windows 8.1 user accounts, you have GOT to be kidding.

On 24/09/14 15:17, Caver1 wrote:
On 09/23/2014 01:39 PM, Joe User wrote:
On 23/09/14 18:02, Caver1 wrote:
On 09/22/2014 02:54 PM, Joe User wrote:
On 22/09/14 19:33, Caver1 wrote:
On 09/22/2014 12:51 PM, felmon wrote:
On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:19:46 +0100, Joe User wrote:


oh jeez, are you still droning on about this snip

You can create a user that runs as root permanently but that is not
recommended. That can only be done after installation not during.


I'm sorry but this is simply incorrect. All of the distros that I am
familiar with create a root account on installation. No password is
assigned thus preventing anyone logging in as root.


I think this is a wind up, did you actually read what you wrote before
you posted it?

Redhat asks for a root password upon installation, you cannot go further
without setting the root password.


Because it is setting up a root account.

Then you set up a regular user
who uses the su command using the root password to elevate to root.


su stands for switch user, if there is no root account there would be
nothing to switch to would there, look, there's even a home directory.

[fool@windup ~]$ su
Password
root@windup:/home/fool# cd
root@windup:~# pwd
/root
root@windup:~#

read the man pages for su and sudo, you're still confused.

I really can't be bothered with the rest it's like talking to a brick wall



--
Not confused, just ... bewildered
 




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