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O.T. Dell 780 Problem



 
 
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  #16  
Old April 4th 18, 11:44 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

I have spare HD's but you bring up a point.


Hmmmmmm,... I believe Paul and I did create a
Rescue Media CD if that's what your referring
to. Paul is very thorough. I'll have to look
for it but I'm sure we did.

Thanks,
Robert

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  #17  
Old April 4th 18, 11:54 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

It's a good thing you helped me set up my
backup system with spare HD's and such.
Otherwise I wouldn't of had the HD. I still
have another spare 2GB Seagate HD and the WD
is the external HD for the 8500.

Still I would like to get a few more spare's
when I'm able. I do like Seagate, I've always
had good performance with them and they're quiet.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16822148834

I think you said before cases were getting hard
to find and they don't make the Star Tech cases
anymore?

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817707227



Thanks,
Robert





  #18  
Old April 4th 18, 01:50 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
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Posts: 2,679
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

In message , Mark
Twain writes:
I have spare HD's but you bring up a point.

If your HD dies, even if you have a spare HD - you won't be able to
restore a working system, unless:

you have install CDs/DVDs for both Windows and all your software. This
will take quite a while just to install it again, get Windows activated,
do all the updates, and tweak everything - Windows and all the software
- back to exactly how you like it. (Even assuming you can remember _how_
you did some of the tweaks. I know I can't!) AND, this won't actually
_use_ any of the images you have so carefully created.

OR:

You have a Macrium CD you can boot from, which will allow you to restore
from the image you have made to the new CD - no activation, updates, or
tweaks required (apart from the hopefully few since you made the image).


Hmmmmmm,... I believe Paul and I did create a
Rescue Media CD if that's what your referring
to. Paul is very thorough. I'll have to look
for it but I'm sure we did.


If that's what the Macrium CD is called. I keep mine with my backup
drive (that's why I like it being on a mini-CD; it's less likely to get
broken). Find it, and check you can boot from it! If only to familiarise
yourself with what the interface looks like _before_ you ever need it.
(Pretty similar to the in-Windows side of the software, I think.)

Thanks,
Robert

I always make my images _by_ booting from the CD. OK, you can't use the
computer _while_ you're making the image, but it doesn't take _that_
long, does it? I do it this way because 1. I don't really like imaging a
system from inside a running Windows (although I know Macrium _can_ do
that), and 2. it provides a check that the CD still works. (CDs _do_ "go
off" with age.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than
to those attending too small a degree of it. -Thomas Jefferson, 3rd US
president, architect and author (1743-1826)
  #19  
Old April 4th 18, 04:09 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
R.Wieser
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Posts: 1,302
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem - macrium

John Gilliver,

Could you tell me where you got that CD image of macrium (reflect ?) from ?

I just visited the macrium website, but it looks like all I can download is
a web-installer. Which is something I rather detest, as I like to have
offline installable versions of the software I'm using.

Also, which version of it are you using (current downloadable version is 7)
?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


  #20  
Old April 4th 18, 04:16 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Mark
Twain writes:
I have spare HD's but you bring up a point.

If your HD dies, even if you have a spare HD - you won't be able to
restore a working system, unless:

you have install CDs/DVDs for both Windows and all your software. This
will take quite a while just to install it again, get Windows activated,
do all the updates, and tweak everything - Windows and all the software
- back to exactly how you like it. (Even assuming you can remember _how_
you did some of the tweaks. I know I can't!) AND, this won't actually
_use_ any of the images you have so carefully created.

OR:

You have a Macrium CD you can boot from, which will allow you to restore
from the image you have made to the new CD - no activation, updates, or
tweaks required (apart from the hopefully few since you made the image).


His setup includes a cloned OS on the backup drive.
Amongst other things.

This allows the backup drive to be inserted into the
PC, and used to boot the machine.

That also gives the opportunity to restore from
the booted drive, to the original drive.

+--------+------------------------+
| OS | Backups | -----+
| Clone | Partition | |
+--------+------------------------+ | Restore the 8500
| in an emergency
+-------------------------------+ |
| OS | ------+
| on internal disk |
+-------------------------------+

The OS clone technique was used on a 3.5" drive,
and there is an assumption the 3.5" external in question,
"belongs" to the PC it backs up. So the 3.5" for the
8500, has the OS partition from the 8500 cloned onto it.
The Backups drive can be removed from its external casing,
and then used to boot the 8500.

Whereas, that little 2.5" drive for the 780, probably
isn't set up the same way. And you'd want the Macrium CD for
convenience in that case.

+---------------------------------+
| 2.5" Seagate | -----+
| | | Use a Macrium CD to
+---------------------------------+ | Restore in
| an emergency
+-------------------------------+ |
| OS (Dell 780) | ------+
| on internal disk |
+-------------------------------+

The CD also has a "boot repair" option, an option that
sometimes works when the Microsoft boot repair doesn't.
I've also used the boot repairs in this order, as the
Macrium makes enough of an improvement in the mess that
typically happens, for the Microsoft boot repair to take
over afterwards. Sometimes the Macrium by itself isn't
enough, but I like to apply the Macrium first, because
it's a better repair.

Broken -------- Macrium CD -- Let Microsoft boot
(restored) OS Boot Repair repair work during reboot
won't boot

Boot repair typically isn't required with the 8500
diagram, as to date I think the restores have been
working pretty well.

The Macrium CD is a good thing to have, and as Macrium
pesters the life out of you if you don't make one, that
"prompt" by Macrium must already have been seen. If you
change major versions of Macrium (i.e. installed 7.x.x
over 6.x.x), then the CD should be updated. I use DVDRW
discs for my Macrium, and just re-burn them as needed.

In a world filled with Ransomware, the second diagram (780)
is preferred (safer) if Ransomware has taken over the internal
disk. Ransomware usually presents a bright red screen,
telling you to pay $300 to get your files back, so
there is no mistaking you have it :-( If you're not
careful, some of the Ransomwares can spread from disk to
disk or machine to machine (wipe out your second computer
if it's networked and running), and your handling
technique has to be a *lot* better. You shouldn't
use the "8500 technique" if the internal disk has
a really nasty malware on it. Adwares are a lot
less trouble, by comparison. So the safest way
to restore, is with the CD, while for "minor"
problems, the 8500 technique is convenient and
gives you something to use a bit sooner.

Even malware experts (the people who do research
at AV companies), have had their entire computer
room destroyed. So if you make a handling mistake,
you're in good company. Even the experts get
slammed, because they're handling so much of that
stuff. And it's "easy to lose track or lose control".

Paul
  #21  
Old April 4th 18, 05:46 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

Mark Twain wrote:
It's a good thing you helped me set up my
backup system with spare HD's and such.
Otherwise I wouldn't of had the HD. I still
have another spare 2GB Seagate HD and the WD
is the external HD for the 8500.

Still I would like to get a few more spare's
when I'm able. I do like Seagate, I've always
had good performance with them and they're quiet.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16822148834

I think you said before cases were getting hard
to find and they don't make the Star Tech cases
anymore?

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817707227



Thanks,
Robert


It's possible the DM001 has gone out of production.
The seller will try and substitute something for that one, instead.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB
64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive Bare Drive $63

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16822148834

Sold and Shipped by: TDT Technology === Not Newegg

3 platters
7200RPM (no cheating)
27dBa (anything below 30 is good)
210MB/sec?
Drive introduced 2011, likely several designs hiding under same SKU
1" drive (not an SMR)
64MB cache (not an SMR) (SMR might get 128MB or 256MB cache)

If that drive really is for sale, I might buy it.

The substitute they might palm off on you would be Seagate ST2000DM006.
It matches on specs, and has a 64MB cache. But the spec sheet
mentions 55TBW (terabyte writes per year) and 2400 POH (Power On Hours per year),
implying it's not intended for a "lot of writes". The ST2000DM001
doesn't use that kind of language in the spec sheet. This is likely
to be what they might ship today (ST2000DM006).

https://www.seagate.com/www-content/...100804187c.pdf

*******

This drive is slower.

WD Blue 2TB Desktop Hard Disk Drive
5400 RPM SATA 6Gb/s 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch - WD20EZRZ $59 (on sale)

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16822235013

https://www.wdc.com/content/dam/wdc/...879-771436.pdf

147MB/sec
5400RPM (not really an OS drive, a bit slow on seek)
1" tall (likely same height as your current one)
27dBa

And I see one report of "excessive parking" for that one.
The Seagate could well do that too, but again, this isn't
information they put in the datasheet.

Summary:

ST2000DM001 - you'd be very lucky if that was actually current stock.
"Shipped by TDT Technology"
ST2000DM006 - similar to DM001, probably not SMR,
datasheet TBW spec doesn't inspire confidence, as if
it's not intended for 8760 hours per year of usage
WD20EZRZ - same noise level, likes to park

I see the same pattern on Amazon, that the ST2000DM001 are old stock
or used. I'd have to select the ST2000DM006 I guess.

And you don't like the ones I actually buy, which are noisy :-)
I have more noisy ones than quiet ones. The SSDs are pretty quiet
(and cost an arm and leg).

*******

For an enclosure, I like to see a fan.

There is a Rosewill, but the reviewers complain about how
some of the internal wiring was done.

This one is more expensive, and it is a "no-name" type
design. You'll need to pick up some stick-on rubber
feed for this, when laying it flat. I don't recommend
standing drives like this up on those "plastic T-feet",
because of the danger your hand will bump against it
when walking by. Even if you don't knock it over,
a bump would be bad for the drive. I like to see
a drive resting flat, to reduce the profile and
avoid hand-strikes.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA6V84AV8386

I've never knocked an enclosure off a table here yet...
but sooner or later, it's gonna happen.

I have dropped raw drives a couple times, but... onto carpet.
And, they still work, which is surely a miracle :-)

This is an example of some (absurdly large) rubber feet.
Those probably won't fall off, as there will be lots of adhesive surface.
$5.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16811993013

Good luck with your shopping,

Paul
  #22  
Old April 4th 18, 06:15 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem - macrium

R.Wieser wrote:
John Gilliver,

Could you tell me where you got that CD image of macrium (reflect ?) from ?

I just visited the macrium website, but it looks like all I can download is
a web-installer. Which is something I rather detest, as I like to have
offline installable versions of the software I'm using.

Also, which version of it are you using (current downloadable version is 7)
?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


You can always detest things.

However, in this case, the process is two steps.
And you can see some mild justification for the design.

Macrium ------ Gives a folder with ----- Double click EXE.
Stub Downloader two files. Carry to If it sees the WinPE Kit
a second PC for next to it, then it will
1) Download EXE installation if you want. install it.
2) Download WinPE Kit Installs anytime.

If you use the stub to just download the 40-60MB EXE,
then Macrium can be installed without a WinPE kit. However,
to make the bootable emergency CD, requires at least one
WinPE kit be on disc. You can host more than one copy
of WinPE within your Macrium install (but that would
be a bit unusual).

The Stub Downloader has a menu that allows selection
of a WinPE kit. I recommend a WinPE5 (win8) or WinPE10 (win10)
kit, as both of those have built-in USB3 support. I don't
know if there's really a good reason for using either of the
other WinPE kits.

The WinPE kit is "assembled" by the Stub. There are
actually a number of separate files it handles, and
it zips up the kit after it is finished processing
the items.

To some extent, that stub makes sense, because it's
a pre-processor. I think the EXE downloads from a Macrium
server, while WinPE components are coming from some
Microsoft CDN. I don't understand the business relationship
that would have to exist between Macrium and Microsoft,
like what they're paying for all those WinPE downloads,
how the downloads are counted or the like. Since Reflect
Free is downloading WinPE kits, there must have been
a metric ton of downloads of WinPE materials, which
are over 500MB of downloads for each kit.

After Macrium is installed, you can also request and
download a WinPE kit at that time. So you don't
have to select and download a WinPE right away.

Paul
  #23  
Old April 5th 18, 12:55 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

I found the Macrium Rescue Media CD we made so
all is well.

Also the Dell Data Safe CD's and a Windoes Pro
Master CD.

Thanks,
Robert
  #24  
Old April 5th 18, 01:00 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem - macrium

It's been so long I can't honestly remember what
instructions Paul gave me.

However I found this:

https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/di...g+rescue+media

http://reflect.macrium.com/help/v5/h...ironment.ht m

Hope this helps,
Robert
  #25  
Old April 5th 18, 01:03 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

Thank you for explaining how we did it.
I couldn't of done it without you and
was your idea actually.

Robert
  #26  
Old April 5th 18, 01:28 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

You were right,. not much to select from, and I
do hate the noisy WD,.. but actually the one I
have for external backups, I prefer the noise,.
it tells me it's working. So in some circumstances
the noise is OK, just not all the time.

I agree with you about the modem laying flat and
those are some weird looking feet. What I did for my
Star Tech's was cardboard stands I made out of cut out
boxes so the fan was open and clear and zip tied them
to hold them secure and labeled each one.


Robert
  #27  
Old April 5th 18, 03:06 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

Assuming I picked the ST2000DM001 and they
try to make a substitute, wouldn't they let
have to let me know beforehand by law? or
would they just ship it out?

If I can't get the ST2000DM001 you suggest
the ST2000DM006? I've never heard of SMR
before and had to look it up. Interesting.

However, given the ST2000DM006 isn't built for
extended use I wonder how long they would last?
Of course, there's not much alternative if there's
no ST2000DM001 around either and the WD aside from
noise likes 'to park', you said.

No one else besides Seagate and WD makes quality HD's?

Robert






  #28  
Old April 5th 18, 04:29 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

Mark Twain wrote:
Assuming I picked the ST2000DM001 and they
try to make a substitute, wouldn't they let
have to let me know beforehand by law? or
would they just ship it out?

If I can't get the ST2000DM001 you suggest
the ST2000DM006? I've never heard of SMR
before and had to look it up. Interesting.

However, given the ST2000DM006 isn't built for
extended use I wonder how long they would last?
Of course, there's not much alternative if there's
no ST2000DM001 around either and the WD aside from
noise likes 'to park', you said.

No one else besides Seagate and WD makes quality HD's?

Robert


We could start with an expensive one, and look at the
review. This drive has 6x the TBW rating and is supposed
to be an 8760 hours per year product. Yet a reviewer
notes that the drive started "chirping" when it was
idle, and this (apparently) is a symptom of aggressive
head parking at idle. $130.

Seagate IronWolf Pro ST2000NE0025 2TB 7200 RPM
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16822179102

The "other" brands I could find, appeared to be around
six years old, and used. They'd apparently had the
Reallocated reset on them by the seller, so the drive
ends up rebuilding the bad sector table while
you're using it.

Really, this business is becoming worse than a used
car lot. This is why I buy my drives locally from
my one remaining "big" computer chain. The other chain
that used to give these guys competition, went
bankrupt. The drives they stock are all new, so
I don't have to worry about "e-tail rubbish".

This is the family I have my eye on, because they have
512n sectors up to the 4TB capacity mark. The high capacity
versions of these have Helium fill, whereas the low
capacity version are conventional designs (and use
more power as a result). $122 for 2TB.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...1Z4-0002-002V0

"Cons: - A bit noisy, but this is to be expected as
WD Gold is a datacenter line."

8760 hours 550TBW (10x a cheap drive) 200MB/sec 28dBa
That means it isn't noisy enough to trip the 30dBa limit.
They mix reviews for different size drives, so it's a bit
hard to figure out which drive they're reporting a noise
issue on. The drives 4TB or larger, are 36dBa.

This Purple drive, is a bit cheaper, and 180TBW per year.
Only 145MB/sec sustained transfer rate. $74

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16822231533

The NAS drive is $120. It could well be a Gold drive
with TLER added (a RAID timeout setting).

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...1Z4-0002-002R5

So price-wise, there isn't a lot of space from top to bottom.
Yes, you can find mis-priced items, like a hard drive for
$2000, but these things seem to fit within a 2:1 footprint
on price, a 10:1 TBW range, and ~200 to ~150MB/sec transfer
rate range. The irritating part, is when the expensive ones
have head-parking turned on. I used to be able to buy
a good drive, and know it wouldn't park the heads. Now,
in this PC, two of three drives park the heads. And the
drives also make the "funny sound" on shutdown, which
is the sound of an FDB motor losing pressure before
spindown is complete. WDC used to use motors (likely from Nidec)
that were supported at both top and bottom of the spindle,
they were fluid dynamic (i.e. "last forever"), and they wouldn't
make any weird noises on shutdown. The regular bearing action
would take over when the fluid pressure drops.

I tried to limit my analysis in keeping with a guess
at what price range you had in mind. At the 2TB level,
they really don't get that much more expensive if you
try one of the other families.

It's really hard to review and rate these things, because
the data sheet is a mess, the reviews are becoming close
to trash (because too many drive models are "poured" into
the same review column). This makes it hard for me to
justify a choice I might select from the lot.

And if we wander off looking at Hitachi or Toshiba drives,
there are too many resellers with old stock, for that to
be much fun when shopping. Old stock is fine if it's actually
new, less so if somebody has monkeyed with them. Like in
a used car lot, turning back the odometer. Or putting
a rubber ball into the differential to quiet it down.
Newegg has those kinds of sellers in its ranks.

Paul
  #29  
Old April 5th 18, 05:17 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem - macrium

In message , R.Wieser
writes:
John Gilliver,

Could you tell me where you got that CD image of macrium (reflect ?) from ?


From what I remember, I didn't download it, but made it from within the
(Windows) Macrium software; "make boot CD" (or similar wording) is one
of the menu options.

I just visited the macrium website, but it looks like all I can download is
a web-installer. Which is something I rather detest, as I like to have
offline installable versions of the software I'm using.

Also, which version of it are you using (current downloadable version is 7)
?

I'm using 5, because it works for me; however, see Paul's post. The bits
that go with later versions may make USB3 work, though I'm not sure if
that is Macrium itself or the supplementary bits, so they _might_ work
with 5. However, if starting anew, I'd not go for less than 6. 7
apparently has some arguably unnecessary processes (services?) that
earlier versions don't.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Capital flows toward lower costs like a river to lowest ground.
"MJ", 2015-12-05
  #30  
Old April 5th 18, 05:20 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message ,
Mark Twain writes:
I have spare HD's but you bring up a point.

If your HD dies, even if you have a spare HD - you won't be able to
restore a working system, unless:

[snip]

His setup includes a cloned OS on the backup drive.
Amongst other things.

[]
Ah, I hadn't realised he was cloning - I thought he was just imaging.
(Of course, for a laptop, cloning is only valid if it's to a 2.5"
drive!)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Capital flows toward lower costs like a river to lowest ground.
"MJ", 2015-12-05
 




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