Oh Cool! Touch Screen like features on a wireless keyboard!

Wow! Logitech K400 and K400r wireless keyboards has a touchpad on the
right of the keyboard. If this isn't strange enough, the touchpad works
like a touch screen for Windows 8. How cool is that for non-touch screen
monitors and digitizer tablets (which only work with a stylus and not
with a finger, aka digitizers stylus behaves just like a mouse)!

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8 Pro w/Media Center

"BillW50" wrote:

Wow! Logitech K400 and K400r wireless keyboards has a touchpad on the
right of the keyboard. If this isn't strange enough, the touchpad works
like a touch screen for Windows 8. How cool is that for non-touch screen
monitors and digitizer tablets (which only work with a stylus and not
with a finger, aka digitizers stylus behaves just like a mouse)!

http://www.technic3d.com/news/images...board_K400.jpg

So how is that different than keyboards that have had touchpads for many
years? Keyboard starting adding touchpads soon after laptops took off
in sales to accomodate laptop users that had both keyboard and touchpad
on the same baseplate. Sometimes the touchpad is in the middle.
Sometimes it was down in the wrist rest area. This one had is
off-center to the right (so southpaws are off-handed on the pointing
device). Instead of a mouse, or in addition to a mouse (since you can
have multiple pointing devices enabled in Windows), you can use a
touchpad. Hardly anything newsworthy there.

Hell, you can even buy touchpads as a separate input device. See:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16826104771
(Nope, not a digitizer pad. A touchpad.)

I remember using a touchpad somewhere around 12 years ago and, no, it
wasn't a digitizer tablet, either, that requires a stylus. I remember
getting a flat spot on my pointer finger. I also remember that it
wasn't as accurate as a mouse; however, when flipping around images on a
monitor, accuracy isn't important -- but for drawing it is. The
touchpad didn't replace my need for a mouse (whether right-side down for
mice or right-side up for trackballs).

Touchpads are old style input devices, just not as old as mice.

On 2/7/2013 6:48 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
"BillW50" wrote:

Wow! Logitech K400 and K400r wireless keyboards has a touchpad on the
right of the keyboard. If this isn't strange enough, the touchpad works
like a touch screen for Windows 8. How cool is that for non-touch screen
monitors and digitizer tablets (which only work with a stylus and not
with a finger, aka digitizers stylus behaves just like a mouse)!

http://www.technic3d.com/news/images...board_K400.jpg

So how is that different than keyboards that have had touchpads for many
years? Keyboard starting adding touchpads soon after laptops took off
in sales to accomodate laptop users that had both keyboard and touchpad
on the same baseplate. Sometimes the touchpad is in the middle.
Sometimes it was down in the wrist rest area. This one had is
off-center to the right (so southpaws are off-handed on the pointing
device). Instead of a mouse, or in addition to a mouse (since you can
have multiple pointing devices enabled in Windows), you can use a
touchpad. Hardly anything newsworthy there.

Hell, you can even buy touchpads as a separate input device. See:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16826104771
(Nope, not a digitizer pad. A touchpad.)

I remember using a touchpad somewhere around 12 years ago and, no, it
wasn't a digitizer tablet, either, that requires a stylus. I remember
getting a flat spot on my pointer finger. I also remember that it
wasn't as accurate as a mouse; however, when flipping around images on a
monitor, accuracy isn't important -- but for drawing it is. The
touchpad didn't replace my need for a mouse (whether right-side down for
mice or right-side up for trackballs).

Touchpads are old style input devices, just not as old as mice.

Oh man! You just don't get it! It isn't just a touchpad! It also accepts
Windows 8 touch screen gestures without a touch screen. Regular
touchpads can't do that at all. All regular touchpads can do is just the
same as a mouse can do and that is it.

This is what Windows 8 desktop (non-touch screen) users are complaining
about! They say that Metro is built mainly for touch screens. I use both
and I find either a mouse or a touch screen is fine, just different ways
to do the same thing. Now you can do all of the touch screen things from
a non-touch screen. That is what makes this device so different.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8 Pro w/Media Center

"BillW50" wrote:

Oh man! You just don't get it! It isn't just a touchpad! It also accepts
Windows 8 touch screen gestures without a touch screen. Regular
touchpads can't do that at all. All regular touchpads can do is just the
same as a mouse can do and that is it.

Ah, new criteria not specified in your original post: gestures.

That would be the software (SetPoint) to interpret the gestures, not
native functionality in the hardware (touchpad). Are you saying that
this keyboard -- with NO SOFTWARE INSTALLED for it -- will support
gestures?

http://logitech-en-ap.custhelp.com/a...RWlpbA%3D% 3D

Point and move the cursor
Since when hasn't a touchpad performed this? The touchpad *is* a
pointing device. Always has been.

Mouse click
Yep, touchpads do that, too. You can tap once for single-click or tap
twice for double-click. The software even affords a sticky mode where
you can tap and then drag without having to keep your finger on the
touchpad (tap+drag, move finger, lift finger, move finger again, and
repeat to get the object moved over, tap again to release the sticky
drag).

Scroll: Scroll up and down with 2 fingers.
In the past, I've only needed 1 finger with other touchpads (or the
older software for them). Usually they reserve a side, like the right
side, of the touchpad for a special-use area to do scrolling. They have
a sticky mode, too. Looks like this software uses a fat finger or maybe
a double-point imprint to activate scroll mode.

Those are features added by their software (SetPoint). It is not native
hardware functionality to directly control the Windows 8 GUI. Since
these "gestures" (which are pre-existing touchpad functionality) are
performed by SetPoint then they would be available on all of their
products that have a touchpad and support SetPoint.

So far, I don't see these "gestures" as anything that hasn't been
available before with touchpads.

On 2/7/2013 9:01 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
"BillW50" wrote:

Oh man! You just don't get it! It isn't just a touchpad! It also accepts
Windows 8 touch screen gestures without a touch screen. Regular
touchpads can't do that at all. All regular touchpads can do is just the
same as a mouse can do and that is it.

Ah, new criteria not specified in your original post: gestures.

That would be the software (SetPoint) to interpret the gestures, not
native functionality in the hardware (touchpad). Are you saying that
this keyboard -- with NO SOFTWARE INSTALLED for it -- will support
gestures?

http://logitech-en-ap.custhelp.com/a...RWlpbA%3D% 3D

Point and move the cursor
Since when hasn't a touchpad performed this? The touchpad *is* a
pointing device. Always has been.

Mouse click
Yep, touchpads do that, too. You can tap once for single-click or tap
twice for double-click. The software even affords a sticky mode where
you can tap and then drag without having to keep your finger on the
touchpad (tap+drag, move finger, lift finger, move finger again, and
repeat to get the object moved over, tap again to release the sticky
drag).

Scroll: Scroll up and down with 2 fingers.
In the past, I've only needed 1 finger with other touchpads (or the
older software for them). Usually they reserve a side, like the right
side, of the touchpad for a special-use area to do scrolling. They have
a sticky mode, too. Looks like this software uses a fat finger or maybe
a double-point imprint to activate scroll mode.

Those are features added by their software (SetPoint). It is not native
hardware functionality to directly control the Windows 8 GUI. Since
these "gestures" (which are pre-existing touchpad functionality) are
performed by SetPoint then they would be available on all of their
products that have a touchpad and support SetPoint.

So far, I don't see these "gestures" as anything that hasn't been
available before with touchpads.

Ah... good thing you ran into me then! ;-) And no gestures isn't a new
criteria. As I mentioned touch screen features on a touchpad. Guess what
those are called? Gestures.

And what is that about nothing special about the hardware and it is all
done through software? Oh that would be nice, but so far no dice. I have
over 20 touchpads here with Logitech's software called SetPoint. And
still no special support for Windows 8 Metro gestures, for example.

Another reason why it isn't just the software is to take a look at the
difference between the K400 and the K400r. Both use the same software,
yet there is a big difference in gesture support.

Logitech FAQ
http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/...ail/a_id/39601

K400 Gestures
- Left Click (Tap-to-Click)
- Double-tap-and-drag
- Vertical Scroll

K400r Gestures
- Left Click (Tap-to-Click)
- Double-tap-and-drag
- Right Click
- Vertical Scroll
- Horizontal Scroll
- Zoom
- Windows 8 Edge gestures

One of my favorite keyboards for the past few years is the Visento V1.
They have Windows 7 and Media Center support and also has a touchpad.
The touchpad supports:

Multi-point finger gesture with 7 touch-sensitive operations
Features included:
- Left Click (Tap-to-Click)
- Double-tap-and-drag
- Middle Click (tap two fingers)
- Right Click (tap three fingers)
- Vertical Scroll (drag two fingers)
- Zoom (spread two fingers)

And there is no software for the Visento V1. It is all done through the
hardware. All Windows needs is the stock generic keyboard and mouse
drivers and that is it.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8 Pro w/Media Center

"BillW50" wrote:

On 2/7/2013 9:01 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
"BillW50" wrote:

Oh man! You just don't get it! It isn't just a touchpad! It also accepts
Windows 8 touch screen gestures without a touch screen. Regular
touchpads can't do that at all. All regular touchpads can do is just the
same as a mouse can do and that is it.

Ah, new criteria not specified in your original post: gestures.

That would be the software (SetPoint) to interpret the gestures, not
native functionality in the hardware (touchpad). Are you saying that
this keyboard -- with NO SOFTWARE INSTALLED for it -- will support
gestures?

http://logitech-en-ap.custhelp.com/a...RWlpbA%3D% 3D

Point and move the cursor
Since when hasn't a touchpad performed this? The touchpad *is* a
pointing device. Always has been.

Mouse click
Yep, touchpads do that, too. You can tap once for single-click or tap
twice for double-click. The software even affords a sticky mode where
you can tap and then drag without having to keep your finger on the
touchpad (tap+drag, move finger, lift finger, move finger again, and
repeat to get the object moved over, tap again to release the sticky
drag).

Scroll: Scroll up and down with 2 fingers.
In the past, I've only needed 1 finger with other touchpads (or the
older software for them). Usually they reserve a side, like the right
side, of the touchpad for a special-use area to do scrolling. They have
a sticky mode, too. Looks like this software uses a fat finger or maybe
a double-point imprint to activate scroll mode.

Those are features added by their software (SetPoint). It is not native
hardware functionality to directly control the Windows 8 GUI. Since
these "gestures" (which are pre-existing touchpad functionality) are
performed by SetPoint then they would be available on all of their
products that have a touchpad and support SetPoint.

So far, I don't see these "gestures" as anything that hasn't been
available before with touchpads.

Ah... good thing you ran into me then! ;-) And no gestures isn't a new
criteria. As I mentioned touch screen features on a touchpad. Guess what
those are called? Gestures.

And what is that about nothing special about the hardware and it is all
done through software? Oh that would be nice, but so far no dice. I have
over 20 touchpads here with Logitech's software called SetPoint. And
still no special support for Windows 8 Metro gestures, for example.

Another reason why it isn't just the software is to take a look at the
difference between the K400 and the K400r. Both use the same software,
yet there is a big difference in gesture support.

Logitech FAQ
http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/...ail/a_id/39601

K400 Gestures
- Left Click (Tap-to-Click)
- Double-tap-and-drag
- Vertical Scroll

K400r Gestures
- Left Click (Tap-to-Click)
- Double-tap-and-drag
- Right Click
- Vertical Scroll
- Horizontal Scroll
- Zoom
- Windows 8 Edge gestures

One of my favorite keyboards for the past few years is the Visento V1.
They have Windows 7 and Media Center support and also has a touchpad.
The touchpad supports:

Multi-point finger gesture with 7 touch-sensitive operations
Features included:
- Left Click (Tap-to-Click)
- Double-tap-and-drag
- Middle Click (tap two fingers)
- Right Click (tap three fingers)
- Vertical Scroll (drag two fingers)
- Zoom (spread two fingers)

And there is no software for the Visento V1. It is all done through the
hardware. All Windows needs is the stock generic keyboard and mouse
drivers and that is it.

I'll have to talk this over with a buddy that builds hosts for
customers. For those with Windows 8, maybe this will salve the
migration to Windows 8; however, so far, it seems most want to get rid
of the Metro UI altogether and use something like Classic Shell.

On 2/8/2013 11:11 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
"BillW50" wrote:

On 2/7/2013 9:01 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
"BillW50" wrote:

Oh man! You just don't get it! It isn't just a touchpad! It also accepts
Windows 8 touch screen gestures without a touch screen. Regular
touchpads can't do that at all. All regular touchpads can do is just the
same as a mouse can do and that is it.

Ah, new criteria not specified in your original post: gestures.

That would be the software (SetPoint) to interpret the gestures, not
native functionality in the hardware (touchpad). Are you saying that
this keyboard -- with NO SOFTWARE INSTALLED for it -- will support
gestures?

http://logitech-en-ap.custhelp.com/a...RWlpbA%3D% 3D

Point and move the cursor
Since when hasn't a touchpad performed this? The touchpad *is* a
pointing device. Always has been.

Mouse click
Yep, touchpads do that, too. You can tap once for single-click or tap
twice for double-click. The software even affords a sticky mode where
you can tap and then drag without having to keep your finger on the
touchpad (tap+drag, move finger, lift finger, move finger again, and
repeat to get the object moved over, tap again to release the sticky
drag).

Scroll: Scroll up and down with 2 fingers.
In the past, I've only needed 1 finger with other touchpads (or the
older software for them). Usually they reserve a side, like the right
side, of the touchpad for a special-use area to do scrolling. They have
a sticky mode, too. Looks like this software uses a fat finger or maybe
a double-point imprint to activate scroll mode.

Those are features added by their software (SetPoint). It is not native
hardware functionality to directly control the Windows 8 GUI. Since
these "gestures" (which are pre-existing touchpad functionality) are
performed by SetPoint then they would be available on all of their
products that have a touchpad and support SetPoint.

So far, I don't see these "gestures" as anything that hasn't been
available before with touchpads.

Ah... good thing you ran into me then! ;-) And no gestures isn't a new
criteria. As I mentioned touch screen features on a touchpad. Guess what
those are called? Gestures.

And what is that about nothing special about the hardware and it is all
done through software? Oh that would be nice, but so far no dice. I have
over 20 touchpads here with Logitech's software called SetPoint. And
still no special support for Windows 8 Metro gestures, for example.

Another reason why it isn't just the software is to take a look at the
difference between the K400 and the K400r. Both use the same software,
yet there is a big difference in gesture support.

Logitech FAQ
http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/...ail/a_id/39601

K400 Gestures
- Left Click (Tap-to-Click)
- Double-tap-and-drag
- Vertical Scroll

K400r Gestures
- Left Click (Tap-to-Click)
- Double-tap-and-drag
- Right Click
- Vertical Scroll
- Horizontal Scroll
- Zoom
- Windows 8 Edge gestures

One of my favorite keyboards for the past few years is the Visento V1.
They have Windows 7 and Media Center support and also has a touchpad.
The touchpad supports:

Multi-point finger gesture with 7 touch-sensitive operations
Features included:
- Left Click (Tap-to-Click)
- Double-tap-and-drag
- Middle Click (tap two fingers)
- Right Click (tap three fingers)
- Vertical Scroll (drag two fingers)
- Zoom (spread two fingers)

And there is no software for the Visento V1. It is all done through the
hardware. All Windows needs is the stock generic keyboard and mouse
drivers and that is it.

I'll have to talk this over with a buddy that builds hosts for
customers. For those with Windows 8, maybe this will salve the
migration to Windows 8; however, so far, it seems most want to get rid
of the Metro UI altogether and use something like Classic Shell.

Here is an update: This Logitech K400 I ordered from Newegg was billed
as a K400. But it isn't, it is a K400r. Which is bad since I already
have a K400r on order someplace else. Now I will be stuck with two K400r.

The K400r has a lot of stuff for Windows 8 only. Besides the touchpad
features as stated above, it also has keys just for Windows 8.

F1 = Show Desktop (goes straight to the desktop)
F2 = Switch applications (same as left swipe)
F3 = Search
F4 = Share
F5 = Devices
F6 = Settings

Oddly enough I tried two Gateway M465 so far, one running XP and the
other one running Windows 8 and both of them running SetPoint is
worthless. As SetPoint isn't even seeing this keyboard. Logitech says to
uninstall and reinstall SetPoint. That still doesn't do anything. But
the keyboard still functions fine without SetPoint. The only key that
doesn't work is the sleep key. Maybe you need SetPoint working right for
that feature to work.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8 Pro w/Media Center

On 2/15/2013 6:58 PM, BillW50 wrote:
On 2/8/2013 11:11 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
"BillW50" wrote:

On 2/7/2013 9:01 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
"BillW50" wrote:

Oh man! You just don't get it! It isn't just a touchpad! It also
accepts
Windows 8 touch screen gestures without a touch screen. Regular
touchpads can't do that at all. All regular touchpads can do is
just the
same as a mouse can do and that is it.

Ah, new criteria not specified in your original post: gestures.

That would be the software (SetPoint) to interpret the gestures, not
native functionality in the hardware (touchpad). Are you saying that
this keyboard -- with NO SOFTWARE INSTALLED for it -- will support
gestures?

http://logitech-en-ap.custhelp.com/a...RWlpbA%3D% 3D


Point and move the cursor
Since when hasn't a touchpad performed this? The touchpad *is* a
pointing device. Always has been.

Mouse click
Yep, touchpads do that, too. You can tap once for single-click or tap
twice for double-click. The software even affords a sticky mode where
you can tap and then drag without having to keep your finger on the
touchpad (tap+drag, move finger, lift finger, move finger again, and
repeat to get the object moved over, tap again to release the sticky
drag).

Scroll: Scroll up and down with 2 fingers.
In the past, I've only needed 1 finger with other touchpads (or the
older software for them). Usually they reserve a side, like the right
side, of the touchpad for a special-use area to do scrolling. They have
a sticky mode, too. Looks like this software uses a fat finger or maybe
a double-point imprint to activate scroll mode.

Those are features added by their software (SetPoint). It is not native
hardware functionality to directly control the Windows 8 GUI. Since
these "gestures" (which are pre-existing touchpad functionality) are
performed by SetPoint then they would be available on all of their
products that have a touchpad and support SetPoint.

So far, I don't see these "gestures" as anything that hasn't been
available before with touchpads.

Ah... good thing you ran into me then! ;-) And no gestures isn't a new
criteria. As I mentioned touch screen features on a touchpad. Guess what
those are called? Gestures.

And what is that about nothing special about the hardware and it is all
done through software? Oh that would be nice, but so far no dice. I have
over 20 touchpads here with Logitech's software called SetPoint. And
still no special support for Windows 8 Metro gestures, for example.

Another reason why it isn't just the software is to take a look at the
difference between the K400 and the K400r. Both use the same software,
yet there is a big difference in gesture support.

Logitech FAQ
http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/...ail/a_id/39601

K400 Gestures
- Left Click (Tap-to-Click)
- Double-tap-and-drag
- Vertical Scroll

K400r Gestures
- Left Click (Tap-to-Click)
- Double-tap-and-drag
- Right Click
- Vertical Scroll
- Horizontal Scroll
- Zoom
- Windows 8 Edge gestures

One of my favorite keyboards for the past few years is the Visento V1.
They have Windows 7 and Media Center support and also has a touchpad.
The touchpad supports:

Multi-point finger gesture with 7 touch-sensitive operations
Features included:
- Left Click (Tap-to-Click)
- Double-tap-and-drag
- Middle Click (tap two fingers)
- Right Click (tap three fingers)
- Vertical Scroll (drag two fingers)
- Zoom (spread two fingers)

And there is no software for the Visento V1. It is all done through the
hardware. All Windows needs is the stock generic keyboard and mouse
drivers and that is it.

I'll have to talk this over with a buddy that builds hosts for
customers. For those with Windows 8, maybe this will salve the
migration to Windows 8; however, so far, it seems most want to get rid
of the Metro UI altogether and use something like Classic Shell.

Here is an update: This Logitech K400 I ordered from Newegg was billed
as a K400. But it isn't, it is a K400r. Which is bad since I already
have a K400r on order someplace else. Now I will be stuck with two K400r.

The K400r has a lot of stuff for Windows 8 only. Besides the touchpad
features as stated above, it also has keys just for Windows 8.

F1 = Show Desktop (goes straight to the desktop)
F2 = Switch applications (same as left swipe)
F3 = Search
F4 = Share
F5 = Devices
F6 = Settings

Oddly enough I tried two Gateway M465 so far, one running XP and the
other one running Windows 8 and both of them running SetPoint is
worthless. As SetPoint isn't even seeing this keyboard. Logitech says to
uninstall and reinstall SetPoint. That still doesn't do anything. But
the keyboard still functions fine without SetPoint. The only key that
doesn't work is the sleep key. Maybe you need SetPoint working right for
that feature to work.

ANOTHER UPDATE:

I tried other computers and the K400r wasn't found by SetPoint either.
The version which was shown by Logitech update was v6.32. That version
appears will never work with K400 or K400r. There are only version
around this one apparently won't work either.

The secret appears to be to grab v6.51 which appears only works with
Windows 8 (I didn't test if it with other Windows versions yet). But
uninstalling the old and installing the new still won't show it. But if
you un-pair it and re-pair it and then it shows just fine in SetPoint.
And yes, the Sleep key now works.

I read on Logitech website that all of their stuff uses HID. Which means
you don't need SetPoint or any drivers. Although you can't really change
much without SetPoint. So if you don't like the defaults, you probably
want to use SetPoint.

I also found out that this keyboard isn't special when it comes to
Windows 8. As Logitech has dozens of devices that can use Windows 8
special features. Also the K400r with SetPoint, also has special
features for Windows 7. Without SetPoint, it is basically only has
Windows 8 features and that is it.

--
Bill
Dell Latitude Slate Tablet 128GB SSD ('12 era) - Thunderbird v12
Intel Atom Z670 1.5GHz - 2GB - Windows 8 Professional