Recommendation: Do NOT install SP2 at this time.

I'm now recommending to people to HOLD OFF installing SP2 for a few months,
until the 'pioneers' who have been burned have a chance to learn how to
'pull the arrows out of their butts'.

Consider this point of view:
o Numerous people are reporting problems as SEVERE as 'the computer
won't
boot' after installing SP2.
o You are currently at SP1 and have all the incremental-fixes applied
and your
machine is working very well, right?

So, just what SPECIFICALLY do you think that SP2 is gonna do for you?
Protect
your machine better? NO! SP2 is basically just all the individual security
fixes from
the past (that you ALREADY have installed individually) rolled up into a
LARGE
package, along with some new functionality (that you probably do not need
YET).
Sure, it may APPEAR to be more secure (because after SP2, it automatically
enables its own firewall [which you MAY or WANT at all, especially if you
are
already protected by a firewall by your router/firewall/accesspoint, etc.]
And, if you DO want a firewall, you already HAVE ONE IN YOUR BASE
WINDOWS-XP system, but you just have NOT turned it on!

Bottom line: I can NOT see ANY valid reason to install SP2 at this time!

Past history has shown us that when these large 'service-pack' bundles were
released,
there were numerous SERIOUS problems for the first few months! (To be very
fair to Microsoft, they were eventually all figured out and solved. But,
not without
leaving previous carnage along the way to the pioneers who got burned.)

So, I assert that 99% of you out there are MISUNDERSTANDING if you think
you ought to install it just because it's available.

Again, past history says that there will be a 'better, bug-fixed' iteration
of SP2
a few months from now (which Microsoft will probably just SILENTLY slip
into the servers at Windows-Update without ever admitting that the earlier
ones
had some serious 'lack of oversight' errors in).

As we like to say: "I've been down this road before!"

Chill out. Wait a while. A (new improved) SP2 will still be out there a
few
months from now.

Just my opinion, and I'm sticking by it.

Dave [just an educated 'user' of Win-XP]

Help newsgroups are somewhat like a hospital.....folks tend
to only visit when an illness unfortunately occurs.

SP2 is a solid, secure release. It is a major "Critical Update"
for Windows XP and updates about 5 million lines of code,
enabling much stronger security, stability, and a tad better
performance benefit.

You may wish to view the following:

List of fixes included in Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://support.microsoft.com/default...t=windowsxpsp2

Learn About Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/preinstall.mspx

What to Know Before You Download and Install Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/s...hattoknow.mspx

I would suggest performing the following maintenance prior to
installing SP2:

Description of the Disk Cleanup Tool in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default...&Product=winxp

How to Perform Disk Error Checking in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default...&Product=winxp

After installing SP2, run the above maintenance utilities again, then perform a Defrag:

HOW TO: Analyze and Defragment a Disk in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default...&Product=winxp

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect Your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"David Cook" wrote:

| I'm now recommending to people to HOLD OFF installing SP2 for a few months,
| until the 'pioneers' who have been burned have a chance to learn how to
| 'pull the arrows out of their butts'.
|
| Consider this point of view:
| o Numerous people are reporting problems as SEVERE as 'the computer
| won't
| boot' after installing SP2.
| o You are currently at SP1 and have all the incremental-fixes applied
| and your
| machine is working very well, right?
|
| So, just what SPECIFICALLY do you think that SP2 is gonna do for you?
| Protect
| your machine better? NO! SP2 is basically just all the individual security
| fixes from
| the past (that you ALREADY have installed individually) rolled up into a
| LARGE
| package, along with some new functionality (that you probably do not need
| YET).
| Sure, it may APPEAR to be more secure (because after SP2, it automatically
| enables its own firewall [which you MAY or WANT at all, especially if you
| are
| already protected by a firewall by your router/firewall/accesspoint, etc.]
| And, if you DO want a firewall, you already HAVE ONE IN YOUR BASE
| WINDOWS-XP system, but you just have NOT turned it on!
|
| Bottom line: I can NOT see ANY valid reason to install SP2 at this time!
|
| Past history has shown us that when these large 'service-pack' bundles were
| released,
| there were numerous SERIOUS problems for the first few months! (To be very
| fair to Microsoft, they were eventually all figured out and solved. But,
| not without
| leaving previous carnage along the way to the pioneers who got burned.)
|
| So, I assert that 99% of you out there are MISUNDERSTANDING if you think
| you ought to install it just because it's available.
|
| Again, past history says that there will be a 'better, bug-fixed' iteration
| of SP2
| a few months from now (which Microsoft will probably just SILENTLY slip
| into the servers at Windows-Update without ever admitting that the earlier
| ones
| had some serious 'lack of oversight' errors in).
|
| As we like to say: "I've been down this road before!"
|
| Chill out. Wait a while. A (new improved) SP2 will still be out there a
| few
| months from now.
|
| Just my opinion, and I'm sticking by it.
|
| Dave [just an educated 'user' of Win-XP]

I couldn't agree with you more Dave--I've been around the
horn more than once with patches and fixes and "new
version this and new version that" and I am going to cool
my jets for a few months before going after sp2.
JoeMick
-----Original Message-----
I'm now recommending to people to HOLD OFF installing
SP2 for a few months,
until the 'pioneers' who have been burned have a chance
to learn how to
'pull the arrows out of their butts'.

Consider this point of view:
o Numerous people are reporting problems as SEVERE
as 'the computer
won't
boot' after installing SP2.
o You are currently at SP1 and have all the
incremental-fixes applied
and your
machine is working very well, right?

So, just what SPECIFICALLY do you think that SP2 is
gonna do for you?
Protect
your machine better? NO! SP2 is basically just all the
individual security
fixes from
the past (that you ALREADY have installed individually)
rolled up into a
LARGE
package, along with some new functionality (that you
probably do not need
YET).
Sure, it may APPEAR to be more secure (because after
SP2, it automatically
enables its own firewall [which you MAY or WANT at all,
especially if you
are
already protected by a firewall by your
router/firewall/accesspoint, etc.]
And, if you DO want a firewall, you already HAVE ONE IN
YOUR BASE
WINDOWS-XP system, but you just have NOT turned it on!

Bottom line: I can NOT see ANY valid reason to install
SP2 at this time!

Past history has shown us that when these large 'service-
pack' bundles were
released,
there were numerous SERIOUS problems for the first few
months! (To be very
fair to Microsoft, they were eventually all figured out
and solved. But,
not without
leaving previous carnage along the way to the pioneers
who got burned.)

So, I assert that 99% of you out there are
MISUNDERSTANDING if you think
you ought to install it just because it's available.

Again, past history says that there will be a 'better,
bug-fixed' iteration
of SP2
a few months from now (which Microsoft will probably
just SILENTLY slip
into the servers at Windows-Update without ever
admitting that the earlier
ones
had some serious 'lack of oversight' errors in).

As we like to say: "I've been down this road before!"

Chill out. Wait a while. A (new improved) SP2 will
still be out there a
few
months from now.

Just my opinion, and I'm sticking by it.

Dave [just an educated 'user' of Win-XP]


.

I wish I had come here before I tried installing SP2, it took me hours to get
rid of it wheni t totally de-stabilised my one month old laptop. Couldnt boot
into windows couldnt get into safe mode eventually managed to do a system
restore in safe mode but I was not happy. I thought it was the 64bit
processor at fault but sounds like SP 2 is just not quite right yet

"David Cook" wrote:

I'm now recommending to people to HOLD OFF installing SP2 for a few months,
until the 'pioneers' who have been burned have a chance to learn how to
'pull the arrows out of their butts'.

Consider this point of view:
o Numerous people are reporting problems as SEVERE as 'the computer
won't
boot' after installing SP2.
o You are currently at SP1 and have all the incremental-fixes applied
and your
machine is working very well, right?

So, just what SPECIFICALLY do you think that SP2 is gonna do for you?
Protect
your machine better? NO! SP2 is basically just all the individual security
fixes from
the past (that you ALREADY have installed individually) rolled up into a
LARGE
package, along with some new functionality (that you probably do not need
YET).
Sure, it may APPEAR to be more secure (because after SP2, it automatically
enables its own firewall [which you MAY or WANT at all, especially if you
are
already protected by a firewall by your router/firewall/accesspoint, etc.]
And, if you DO want a firewall, you already HAVE ONE IN YOUR BASE
WINDOWS-XP system, but you just have NOT turned it on!

Bottom line: I can NOT see ANY valid reason to install SP2 at this time!

Past history has shown us that when these large 'service-pack' bundles were
released,
there were numerous SERIOUS problems for the first few months! (To be very
fair to Microsoft, they were eventually all figured out and solved. But,
not without
leaving previous carnage along the way to the pioneers who got burned.)

So, I assert that 99% of you out there are MISUNDERSTANDING if you think
you ought to install it just because it's available.

Again, past history says that there will be a 'better, bug-fixed' iteration
of SP2
a few months from now (which Microsoft will probably just SILENTLY slip
into the servers at Windows-Update without ever admitting that the earlier
ones
had some serious 'lack of oversight' errors in).

As we like to say: "I've been down this road before!"

Chill out. Wait a while. A (new improved) SP2 will still be out there a
few
months from now.

Just my opinion, and I'm sticking by it.

Dave [just an educated 'user' of Win-XP]

I have also read that if there are any new patches needed
for WXP that you will need SP2 installed first before
installing the patches.
Allan
-----Original Message-----
Help newsgroups are somewhat like a hospital.....folks
tend
to only visit when an illness unfortunately occurs.

SP2 is a solid, secure release. It is a major "Critical
Update"
for Windows XP and updates about 5 million lines of code,
enabling much stronger security, stability, and a tad
better
performance benefit.

You may wish to view the following:

List of fixes included in Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-
us;811113&Product=windowsxpsp2

Learn About Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/preinstall.mspx

What to Know Before You Download and Install Windows XP
Service Pack 2
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/s...whattoknow.msp
x

I would suggest performing the following maintenance
prior to
installing SP2:

Description of the Disk Cleanup Tool in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-
us;310312&Product=winxp

How to Perform Disk Error Checking in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-
us;315265&Product=winxp

After installing SP2, run the above maintenance
utilities again, then perform a Defrag:

HOW TO: Analyze and Defragment a Disk in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-
us;305781&Product=winxp

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect Your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...rotect/default.
aspx

---------------------------------------------------------
---------------------

"David Cook" wrote:

| I'm now recommending to people to HOLD OFF installing
SP2 for a few months,
| until the 'pioneers' who have been burned have a
chance to learn how to
| 'pull the arrows out of their butts'.
|
| Consider this point of view:
| o Numerous people are reporting problems as SEVERE
as 'the computer
| won't
| boot' after installing SP2.
| o You are currently at SP1 and have all the
incremental-fixes applied
| and your
| machine is working very well, right?
|
| So, just what SPECIFICALLY do you think that SP2 is
gonna do for you?
| Protect
| your machine better? NO! SP2 is basically just all
the individual security
| fixes from
| the past (that you ALREADY have installed
individually) rolled up into a
| LARGE
| package, along with some new functionality (that you
probably do not need
| YET).
| Sure, it may APPEAR to be more secure (because after
SP2, it automatically
| enables its own firewall [which you MAY or WANT at
all, especially if you
| are
| already protected by a firewall by your
router/firewall/accesspoint, etc.]
| And, if you DO want a firewall, you already HAVE ONE
IN YOUR BASE
| WINDOWS-XP system, but you just have NOT turned it on!
|
| Bottom line: I can NOT see ANY valid reason to install
SP2 at this time!
|
| Past history has shown us that when these
large 'service-pack' bundles were
| released,
| there were numerous SERIOUS problems for the first few
months! (To be very
| fair to Microsoft, they were eventually all figured
out and solved. But,
| not without
| leaving previous carnage along the way to the pioneers
who got burned.)
|
| So, I assert that 99% of you out there are
MISUNDERSTANDING if you think
| you ought to install it just because it's available.
|
| Again, past history says that there will be a 'better,
bug-fixed' iteration
| of SP2
| a few months from now (which Microsoft will probably
just SILENTLY slip
| into the servers at Windows-Update without ever
admitting that the earlier
| ones
| had some serious 'lack of oversight' errors in).
|
| As we like to say: "I've been down this road before!"
|
| Chill out. Wait a while. A (new improved) SP2 will
still be out there a
| few
| months from now.
|
| Just my opinion, and I'm sticking by it.
|
| Dave [just an educated 'user' of Win-XP]

.

Dear Dave [just an educated 'user' of Win-XP]
Microsoft is a large company with very intelligent
people. The release of SP2 wasn't just a "Lets see if
this works" service patch. This SP was developed soon
after the release of SP1 and has been developed and
tested by 3rd parties for months if not years. Yes there
is going to be issues with the SP2, however what most
people don't realize is, is that 90% of problems are due
to either their lack of knowledge, or their OEM's
configuration of drivers, and other conflicting software.
3rd party software manufactures are given all kinds of
time to test their software with the SP and work out the
bugs, but if they don't it seems the Microsoft catches
all the blame for the lack of interests of these 3rd
party companies.
So to suggest to anyone that they should not download SP2
is completely ignorant, and anyone who is looking to
download the SP2, take the time to read information on
it, and just not listen to some persons beliefs. Take a
look at the suggested before and after procedures for the
SP, this will make the download even easier. And lastly,
as far as I know the only computer manufacture that is
having any real issues with SP2 is Dell. So people I am
not knocking Dave's views, I just think he isn't as
educated as he thinks. Download SP2, if you have any
concerns check out www.support.microsoft.com/windowsxpsp2
or if you do have any ill effects of SP2 contact MS
Customer Service at 1-888-SP2-HELP.
Thanks
Chris

-----Original Message-----
I'm now recommending to people to HOLD OFF installing
SP2 for a few months,
until the 'pioneers' who have been burned have a chance
to learn how to
'pull the arrows out of their butts'.

Consider this point of view:
o Numerous people are reporting problems as SEVERE
as 'the computer
won't
boot' after installing SP2.
o You are currently at SP1 and have all the
incremental-fixes applied
and your
machine is working very well, right?

So, just what SPECIFICALLY do you think that SP2 is
gonna do for you?
Protect
your machine better? NO! SP2 is basically just all the
individual security
fixes from
the past (that you ALREADY have installed individually)
rolled up into a
LARGE
package, along with some new functionality (that you
probably do not need
YET).
Sure, it may APPEAR to be more secure (because after
SP2, it automatically
enables its own firewall [which you MAY or WANT at all,
especially if you
are
already protected by a firewall by your
router/firewall/accesspoint, etc.]
And, if you DO want a firewall, you already HAVE ONE IN
YOUR BASE
WINDOWS-XP system, but you just have NOT turned it on!

Bottom line: I can NOT see ANY valid reason to install
SP2 at this time!

Past history has shown us that when these large 'service-
pack' bundles were
released,
there were numerous SERIOUS problems for the first few
months! (To be very
fair to Microsoft, they were eventually all figured out
and solved. But,
not without
leaving previous carnage along the way to the pioneers
who got burned.)

So, I assert that 99% of you out there are
MISUNDERSTANDING if you think
you ought to install it just because it's available.

Again, past history says that there will be a 'better,
bug-fixed' iteration
of SP2
a few months from now (which Microsoft will probably
just SILENTLY slip
into the servers at Windows-Update without ever
admitting that the earlier
ones
had some serious 'lack of oversight' errors in).

As we like to say: "I've been down this road before!"

Chill out. Wait a while. A (new improved) SP2 will
still be out there a
few
months from now.

Just my opinion, and I'm sticking by it.

Dave [just an educated 'user' of Win-XP]


.

SP2 is not for 64 bit Win XP? Read up on the SP before
you download them!

-----Original Message-----
I wish I had come here before I tried installing SP2, it
took me hours to get
rid of it wheni t totally de-stabilised my one month old
laptop. Couldnt boot
into windows couldnt get into safe mode eventually
managed to do a system
restore in safe mode but I was not happy. I thought it
was the 64bit
processor at fault but sounds like SP 2 is just not
quite right yet

"David Cook" wrote:

I'm now recommending to people to HOLD OFF installing
SP2 for a few months,
until the 'pioneers' who have been burned have a
chance to learn how to
'pull the arrows out of their butts'.

Consider this point of view:
o Numerous people are reporting problems as SEVERE
as 'the computer
won't
boot' after installing SP2.
o You are currently at SP1 and have all the
incremental-fixes applied
and your
machine is working very well, right?

So, just what SPECIFICALLY do you think that SP2 is
gonna do for you?
Protect
your machine better? NO! SP2 is basically just all
the individual security
fixes from
the past (that you ALREADY have installed
individually) rolled up into a
LARGE
package, along with some new functionality (that you
probably do not need
YET).
Sure, it may APPEAR to be more secure (because after
SP2, it automatically
enables its own firewall [which you MAY or WANT at
all, especially if you
are
already protected by a firewall by your
router/firewall/accesspoint, etc.]
And, if you DO want a firewall, you already HAVE ONE
IN YOUR BASE
WINDOWS-XP system, but you just have NOT turned it on!

Bottom line: I can NOT see ANY valid reason to install
SP2 at this time!

Past history has shown us that when these
large 'service-pack' bundles were
released,
there were numerous SERIOUS problems for the first few
months! (To be very
fair to Microsoft, they were eventually all figured
out and solved. But,
not without
leaving previous carnage along the way to the pioneers
who got burned.)

So, I assert that 99% of you out there are
MISUNDERSTANDING if you think
you ought to install it just because it's available.

Again, past history says that there will be a 'better,
bug-fixed' iteration
of SP2
a few months from now (which Microsoft will probably
just SILENTLY slip
into the servers at Windows-Update without ever
admitting that the earlier
ones
had some serious 'lack of oversight' errors in).

As we like to say: "I've been down this road before!"

Chill out. Wait a while. A (new improved) SP2 will
still be out there a
few
months from now.

Just my opinion, and I'm sticking by it.

Dave [just an educated 'user' of Win-XP]



.

Well Carey, you may say it is much more secure and all
the nice things you want to attribute to it but if you
were one of us that is experiencing the problems the shoe
would be on the other foot and right now it would appear
that we are in two different worlds--the real world and
the "make believe microsoft world"--I don't buy the BS
that sp2 is what it's played up to be and I am here to
tell YOU that there are definite bugs in it that need
work and I am recommending that people wait until
microsoft fixes the damn thing.
-----Original Message-----
Help newsgroups are somewhat like a hospital.....folks
tend
to only visit when an illness unfortunately occurs.

SP2 is a solid, secure release. It is a major "Critical
Update"
for Windows XP and updates about 5 million lines of code,
enabling much stronger security, stability, and a tad
better
performance benefit.

You may wish to view the following:

List of fixes included in Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-
us;811113&Product=windowsxpsp2

Learn About Windows XP Service Pack 2
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/sp2/preinstall.mspx

What to Know Before You Download and Install Windows XP
Service Pack 2
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/s...whattoknow.msp
x

I would suggest performing the following maintenance
prior to
installing SP2:

Description of the Disk Cleanup Tool in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-
us;310312&Product=winxp

How to Perform Disk Error Checking in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-
us;315265&Product=winxp

After installing SP2, run the above maintenance
utilities again, then perform a Defrag:

HOW TO: Analyze and Defragment a Disk in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-
us;305781&Product=winxp

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect Your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...rotect/default.
aspx

---------------------------------------------------------
---------------------

"David Cook" wrote:

| I'm now recommending to people to HOLD OFF installing
SP2 for a few months,
| until the 'pioneers' who have been burned have a
chance to learn how to
| 'pull the arrows out of their butts'.
|
| Consider this point of view:
| o Numerous people are reporting problems as SEVERE
as 'the computer
| won't
| boot' after installing SP2.
| o You are currently at SP1 and have all the
incremental-fixes applied
| and your
| machine is working very well, right?
|
| So, just what SPECIFICALLY do you think that SP2 is
gonna do for you?
| Protect
| your machine better? NO! SP2 is basically just all
the individual security
| fixes from
| the past (that you ALREADY have installed
individually) rolled up into a
| LARGE
| package, along with some new functionality (that you
probably do not need
| YET).
| Sure, it may APPEAR to be more secure (because after
SP2, it automatically
| enables its own firewall [which you MAY or WANT at
all, especially if you
| are
| already protected by a firewall by your
router/firewall/accesspoint, etc.]
| And, if you DO want a firewall, you already HAVE ONE
IN YOUR BASE
| WINDOWS-XP system, but you just have NOT turned it on!
|
| Bottom line: I can NOT see ANY valid reason to install
SP2 at this time!
|
| Past history has shown us that when these
large 'service-pack' bundles were
| released,
| there were numerous SERIOUS problems for the first few
months! (To be very
| fair to Microsoft, they were eventually all figured
out and solved. But,
| not without
| leaving previous carnage along the way to the pioneers
who got burned.)
|
| So, I assert that 99% of you out there are
MISUNDERSTANDING if you think
| you ought to install it just because it's available.
|
| Again, past history says that there will be a 'better,
bug-fixed' iteration
| of SP2
| a few months from now (which Microsoft will probably
just SILENTLY slip
| into the servers at Windows-Update without ever
admitting that the earlier
| ones
| had some serious 'lack of oversight' errors in).
|
| As we like to say: "I've been down this road before!"
|
| Chill out. Wait a while. A (new improved) SP2 will
still be out there a
| few
| months from now.
|
| Just my opinion, and I'm sticking by it.
|
| Dave [just an educated 'user' of Win-XP]

.

Did you try posting your problems to newsgroups?

"didi" wrote:

I wish I had come here before I tried installing SP2, it took me hours to get
rid of it wheni t totally de-stabilised my one month old laptop. Couldnt boot
into windows couldnt get into safe mode eventually managed to do a system
restore in safe mode but I was not happy. I thought it was the 64bit
processor at fault but sounds like SP 2 is just not quite right yet

"David Cook" wrote:

I'm now recommending to people to HOLD OFF installing SP2 for a few months,
until the 'pioneers' who have been burned have a chance to learn how to
'pull the arrows out of their butts'.

Consider this point of view:
o Numerous people are reporting problems as SEVERE as 'the computer
won't
boot' after installing SP2.
o You are currently at SP1 and have all the incremental-fixes applied
and your
machine is working very well, right?

So, just what SPECIFICALLY do you think that SP2 is gonna do for you?
Protect
your machine better? NO! SP2 is basically just all the individual security
fixes from
the past (that you ALREADY have installed individually) rolled up into a
LARGE
package, along with some new functionality (that you probably do not need
YET).
Sure, it may APPEAR to be more secure (because after SP2, it automatically
enables its own firewall [which you MAY or WANT at all, especially if you
are
already protected by a firewall by your router/firewall/accesspoint, etc.]
And, if you DO want a firewall, you already HAVE ONE IN YOUR BASE
WINDOWS-XP system, but you just have NOT turned it on!

Bottom line: I can NOT see ANY valid reason to install SP2 at this time!

Past history has shown us that when these large 'service-pack' bundles were
released,
there were numerous SERIOUS problems for the first few months! (To be very
fair to Microsoft, they were eventually all figured out and solved. But,
not without
leaving previous carnage along the way to the pioneers who got burned.)

So, I assert that 99% of you out there are MISUNDERSTANDING if you think
you ought to install it just because it's available.

Again, past history says that there will be a 'better, bug-fixed' iteration
of SP2
a few months from now (which Microsoft will probably just SILENTLY slip
into the servers at Windows-Update without ever admitting that the earlier
ones
had some serious 'lack of oversight' errors in).

As we like to say: "I've been down this road before!"

Chill out. Wait a while. A (new improved) SP2 will still be out there a
few
months from now.

Just my opinion, and I'm sticking by it.

Dave [just an educated 'user' of Win-XP]

Since you have apparently not attempted to install SP2,
you have no issues with it, other than crying "wolf".
I suggest you install SP2 and if you experience an issue,
then post back with an issue-related inquiry.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect Your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/secu...t/default.aspx

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Joe Mickelson" wrote:

| Well Carey, you may say it is much more secure and all
| the nice things you want to attribute to it but if you
| were one of us that is experiencing the problems the shoe
| would be on the other foot and right now it would appear
| that we are in two different worlds--the real world and
| the "make believe microsoft world"--I don't buy the BS
| that sp2 is what it's played up to be and I am here to
| tell YOU that there are definite bugs in it that need
| work and I am recommending that people wait until
| microsoft fixes the damn thing.

joe,

do you cluck like a chicken too ??

are you and your wife waiting ten years before you make a baby ??

talk about a life changing exercise

.... so ... cluck away joe ... i went for the download on august 16th with a
dial up modem, no less

forty nine hours later (and 11 'you have been disconnected ... ' messages)

i have win xp sp2 on my own cd ... and i even installed it on my ancient
computer ...

no problems yet ... yuk ... yuk ... yuk ...

just do it joe ... microsoft will even send you a cd (free)

when did microsoft ever give something away ???

sign me

just me
"Joe Mickelson" wrote in message
...
I couldn't agree with you more Dave--I've been around the
horn more than once with patches and fixes and "new
version this and new version that" and I am going to cool
my jets for a few months before going after sp2.
JoeMick
-----Original Message-----
I'm now recommending to people to HOLD OFF installing
SP2 for a few months,
until the 'pioneers' who have been burned have a chance
to learn how to
'pull the arrows out of their butts'.

Consider this point of view:
o Numerous people are reporting problems as SEVERE
as 'the computer
won't
boot' after installing SP2.
o You are currently at SP1 and have all the
incremental-fixes applied
and your
machine is working very well, right?

So, just what SPECIFICALLY do you think that SP2 is
gonna do for you?
Protect
your machine better? NO! SP2 is basically just all the
individual security
fixes from
the past (that you ALREADY have installed individually)
rolled up into a
LARGE
package, along with some new functionality (that you
probably do not need
YET).
Sure, it may APPEAR to be more secure (because after
SP2, it automatically
enables its own firewall [which you MAY or WANT at all,
especially if you
are
already protected by a firewall by your
router/firewall/accesspoint, etc.]
And, if you DO want a firewall, you already HAVE ONE IN
YOUR BASE
WINDOWS-XP system, but you just have NOT turned it on!

Bottom line: I can NOT see ANY valid reason to install
SP2 at this time!

Past history has shown us that when these large 'service-
pack' bundles were
released,
there were numerous SERIOUS problems for the first few
months! (To be very
fair to Microsoft, they were eventually all figured out
and solved. But,
not without
leaving previous carnage along the way to the pioneers
who got burned.)

So, I assert that 99% of you out there are
MISUNDERSTANDING if you think
you ought to install it just because it's available.

Again, past history says that there will be a 'better,
bug-fixed' iteration
of SP2
a few months from now (which Microsoft will probably
just SILENTLY slip
into the servers at Windows-Update without ever
admitting that the earlier
ones
had some serious 'lack of oversight' errors in).

As we like to say: "I've been down this road before!"

Chill out. Wait a while. A (new improved) SP2 will
still be out there a
few
months from now.

Just my opinion, and I'm sticking by it.

Dave [just an educated 'user' of Win-XP]


.

Dear Chris
The computer I just installed sp2 on is almost new--maybe
three 3rd party software at best--pretty clean--bare
bones--one printer--couldn't ask for a more perfect
example to install sp2 and you would think have little if
no conflicts to interfere. Well, no disk clean, no
defrag function and that's just for starters I will be
checking to see other problems and I will uninstall sp2
and will not install it on my machine. Unlike you I live
and work in the real world. Calling people ignorant is
just another way of showing your complete lack of being
able to deal with microsoft's shortcomings---and I have
seen plenty.
First you buy the gun and then you buy the bullets--all
thank's to microsoft.

-----Original Message-----
Dear Dave [just an educated 'user' of Win-XP]
Microsoft is a large company with very intelligent
people. The release of SP2 wasn't just a "Lets see if
this works" service patch. This SP was developed soon
after the release of SP1 and has been developed and
tested by 3rd parties for months if not years. Yes there
is going to be issues with the SP2, however what most
people don't realize is, is that 90% of problems are due
to either their lack of knowledge, or their OEM's
configuration of drivers, and other conflicting
software.
3rd party software manufactures are given all kinds of
time to test their software with the SP and work out the
bugs, but if they don't it seems the Microsoft catches
all the blame for the lack of interests of these 3rd
party companies.
So to suggest to anyone that they should not download
SP2
is completely ignorant, and anyone who is looking to
download the SP2, take the time to read information on
it, and just not listen to some persons beliefs. Take a
look at the suggested before and after procedures for
the
SP, this will make the download even easier. And lastly,
as far as I know the only computer manufacture that is
having any real issues with SP2 is Dell. So people I am
not knocking Dave's views, I just think he isn't as
educated as he thinks. Download SP2, if you have any
concerns check out
www.support.microsoft.com/windowsxpsp2
or if you do have any ill effects of SP2 contact MS
Customer Service at 1-888-SP2-HELP.
Thanks
Chris

-----Original Message-----
I'm now recommending to people to HOLD OFF installing
SP2 for a few months,
until the 'pioneers' who have been burned have a chance
to learn how to
'pull the arrows out of their butts'.

Consider this point of view:
o Numerous people are reporting problems as SEVERE
as 'the computer
won't
boot' after installing SP2.
o You are currently at SP1 and have all the
incremental-fixes applied
and your
machine is working very well, right?

So, just what SPECIFICALLY do you think that SP2 is
gonna do for you?
Protect
your machine better? NO! SP2 is basically just all
the
individual security
fixes from
the past (that you ALREADY have installed individually)
rolled up into a
LARGE
package, along with some new functionality (that you
probably do not need
YET).
Sure, it may APPEAR to be more secure (because after
SP2, it automatically
enables its own firewall [which you MAY or WANT at all,
especially if you
are
already protected by a firewall by your
router/firewall/accesspoint, etc.]
And, if you DO want a firewall, you already HAVE ONE IN
YOUR BASE
WINDOWS-XP system, but you just have NOT turned it on!

Bottom line: I can NOT see ANY valid reason to install
SP2 at this time!

Past history has shown us that when these
large 'service-
pack' bundles were
released,
there were numerous SERIOUS problems for the first few
months! (To be very
fair to Microsoft, they were eventually all figured out
and solved. But,
not without
leaving previous carnage along the way to the pioneers
who got burned.)

So, I assert that 99% of you out there are
MISUNDERSTANDING if you think
you ought to install it just because it's available.

Again, past history says that there will be a 'better,
bug-fixed' iteration
of SP2
a few months from now (which Microsoft will probably
just SILENTLY slip
into the servers at Windows-Update without ever
admitting that the earlier
ones
had some serious 'lack of oversight' errors in).

As we like to say: "I've been down this road before!"

Chill out. Wait a while. A (new improved) SP2 will
still be out there a
few
months from now.

Just my opinion, and I'm sticking by it.

Dave [just an educated 'user' of Win-XP]


.

.

What problems were you seeing. May be someone who has experienced similar
problems on these newsgroups may be able to help you.

"Joe Mickelson" wrote:

Dear Chris
The computer I just installed sp2 on is almost new--maybe
three 3rd party software at best--pretty clean--bare
bones--one printer--couldn't ask for a more perfect
example to install sp2 and you would think have little if
no conflicts to interfere. Well, no disk clean, no
defrag function and that's just for starters I will be
checking to see other problems and I will uninstall sp2
and will not install it on my machine. Unlike you I live
and work in the real world. Calling people ignorant is
just another way of showing your complete lack of being
able to deal with microsoft's shortcomings---and I have
seen plenty.
First you buy the gun and then you buy the bullets--all
thank's to microsoft.

-----Original Message-----
Dear Dave [just an educated 'user' of Win-XP]
Microsoft is a large company with very intelligent
people. The release of SP2 wasn't just a "Lets see if
this works" service patch. This SP was developed soon
after the release of SP1 and has been developed and
tested by 3rd parties for months if not years. Yes there
is going to be issues with the SP2, however what most
people don't realize is, is that 90% of problems are due
to either their lack of knowledge, or their OEM's
configuration of drivers, and other conflicting
software.
3rd party software manufactures are given all kinds of
time to test their software with the SP and work out the
bugs, but if they don't it seems the Microsoft catches
all the blame for the lack of interests of these 3rd
party companies.
So to suggest to anyone that they should not download
SP2
is completely ignorant, and anyone who is looking to
download the SP2, take the time to read information on
it, and just not listen to some persons beliefs. Take a
look at the suggested before and after procedures for
the
SP, this will make the download even easier. And lastly,
as far as I know the only computer manufacture that is
having any real issues with SP2 is Dell. So people I am
not knocking Dave's views, I just think he isn't as
educated as he thinks. Download SP2, if you have any
concerns check out
www.support.microsoft.com/windowsxpsp2
or if you do have any ill effects of SP2 contact MS
Customer Service at 1-888-SP2-HELP.
Thanks
Chris

-----Original Message-----
I'm now recommending to people to HOLD OFF installing
SP2 for a few months,
until the 'pioneers' who have been burned have a chance
to learn how to
'pull the arrows out of their butts'.

Consider this point of view:
o Numerous people are reporting problems as SEVERE
as 'the computer
won't
boot' after installing SP2.
o You are currently at SP1 and have all the
incremental-fixes applied
and your
machine is working very well, right?

So, just what SPECIFICALLY do you think that SP2 is
gonna do for you?
Protect
your machine better? NO! SP2 is basically just all
the
individual security
fixes from
the past (that you ALREADY have installed individually)
rolled up into a
LARGE
package, along with some new functionality (that you
probably do not need
YET).
Sure, it may APPEAR to be more secure (because after
SP2, it automatically
enables its own firewall [which you MAY or WANT at all,
especially if you
are
already protected by a firewall by your
router/firewall/accesspoint, etc.]
And, if you DO want a firewall, you already HAVE ONE IN
YOUR BASE
WINDOWS-XP system, but you just have NOT turned it on!

Bottom line: I can NOT see ANY valid reason to install
SP2 at this time!

Past history has shown us that when these
large 'service-
pack' bundles were
released,
there were numerous SERIOUS problems for the first few
months! (To be very
fair to Microsoft, they were eventually all figured out
and solved. But,
not without
leaving previous carnage along the way to the pioneers
who got burned.)

So, I assert that 99% of you out there are
MISUNDERSTANDING if you think
you ought to install it just because it's available.

Again, past history says that there will be a 'better,
bug-fixed' iteration
of SP2
a few months from now (which Microsoft will probably
just SILENTLY slip
into the servers at Windows-Update without ever
admitting that the earlier
ones
had some serious 'lack of oversight' errors in).

As we like to say: "I've been down this road before!"

Chill out. Wait a while. A (new improved) SP2 will
still be out there a
few
months from now.

Just my opinion, and I'm sticking by it.

Dave [just an educated 'user' of Win-XP]


.

.

My experience from installing SP2 and suggestions fwiw,

1: Made sure I had all the latest drivers for my peripherals
2: Made sure I had all available updates for my software
3: Did a thorough disk cleanup
4: Did a thorough virus scan
5: Did a thorough adware scan with Ad Aware and Spybot
6: Imaged my hard drive using Powerquest Drive Image
7: Installed SP2 - stand alone network install.
8: Did a complete defrag of my system partition

System is running great, in fact somewhat more robust than before.
I have had 1 issue to date, my flight sim IL2 Forgotten Battles w/ Ace
Expansion Pack - cannot get it to run. I'll keep trying things and reading
forums and hopefully eventually find a fix or workaround, in fact, I find it
somewhat of a challenge.

Any operating system upgrade, always take care to prepare - be as well
prepared as possible, and definitely image or back up hard drive. I image
my drive on a weekly basis anyway just in case something does happen - it
usually is not if, but when. Hard drives do fail, bad clusters develop, but
certainly not because of an OS upgrade. I value my data, so I make sure i
keep an image of everything available.

There's a risk in everything. I have had hard drives fail for no apparent
reason at all. I have had expansion cards blow because of a lightning strike
creating a power surge nearby. I had a motheboard go bad once, I had taken
it out to put in a new processor, and somehow I must have fried it - I think
I bent one of the capacitors enough to screw it up.

But, I am not going to put my head in the sand and never upgrade my
software, install new software, never upgrade my computer, because of a
slight risk. In particular, if something does go wrong, I am bound and
determined to find out why, one way or the other, rather than giving up and
not doing it.

If you wait until all known and unknown bugs are fixed, then might as well
never install any updates/upgrades.


Don Burnette







David Cook wrote:
I'm now recommending to people to HOLD OFF installing SP2 for a few
months, until the 'pioneers' who have been burned have a chance to
learn how to 'pull the arrows out of their butts'.

Consider this point of view:
o Numerous people are reporting problems as SEVERE as 'the computer
won't
boot' after installing SP2.
o You are currently at SP1 and have all the incremental-fixes
applied and your
machine is working very well, right?

So, just what SPECIFICALLY do you think that SP2 is gonna do for you?
Protect
your machine better? NO! SP2 is basically just all the individual
security fixes from
the past (that you ALREADY have installed individually) rolled up
into a LARGE
package, along with some new functionality (that you probably do not
need YET).
Sure, it may APPEAR to be more secure (because after SP2, it
automatically enables its own firewall [which you MAY or WANT at all,
especially if you are
already protected by a firewall by your router/firewall/accesspoint,
etc.] And, if you DO want a firewall, you already HAVE ONE IN YOUR
BASE WINDOWS-XP system, but you just have NOT turned it on!

Bottom line: I can NOT see ANY valid reason to install SP2 at this
time!
Past history has shown us that when these large 'service-pack'
bundles were released,
there were numerous SERIOUS problems for the first few months! (To
be very fair to Microsoft, they were eventually all figured out and
solved. But, not without
leaving previous carnage along the way to the pioneers who got
burned.)
So, I assert that 99% of you out there are MISUNDERSTANDING if you
think you ought to install it just because it's available.

Again, past history says that there will be a 'better, bug-fixed'
iteration of SP2
a few months from now (which Microsoft will probably just SILENTLY
slip into the servers at Windows-Update without ever admitting that
the earlier ones
had some serious 'lack of oversight' errors in).

As we like to say: "I've been down this road before!"

Chill out. Wait a while. A (new improved) SP2 will still be out
there a few
months from now.

Just my opinion, and I'm sticking by it.

Dave [just an educated 'user' of Win-XP]

Your recommendations are really going to help other users.

"Don Burnette" wrote:

My experience from installing SP2 and suggestions fwiw,

1: Made sure I had all the latest drivers for my peripherals
2: Made sure I had all available updates for my software
3: Did a thorough disk cleanup
4: Did a thorough virus scan
5: Did a thorough adware scan with Ad Aware and Spybot
6: Imaged my hard drive using Powerquest Drive Image
7: Installed SP2 - stand alone network install.
8: Did a complete defrag of my system partition

System is running great, in fact somewhat more robust than before.
I have had 1 issue to date, my flight sim IL2 Forgotten Battles w/ Ace
Expansion Pack - cannot get it to run. I'll keep trying things and reading
forums and hopefully eventually find a fix or workaround, in fact, I find it
somewhat of a challenge.

Any operating system upgrade, always take care to prepare - be as well
prepared as possible, and definitely image or back up hard drive. I image
my drive on a weekly basis anyway just in case something does happen - it
usually is not if, but when. Hard drives do fail, bad clusters develop, but
certainly not because of an OS upgrade. I value my data, so I make sure i
keep an image of everything available.

There's a risk in everything. I have had hard drives fail for no apparent
reason at all. I have had expansion cards blow because of a lightning strike
creating a power surge nearby. I had a motheboard go bad once, I had taken
it out to put in a new processor, and somehow I must have fried it - I think
I bent one of the capacitors enough to screw it up.

But, I am not going to put my head in the sand and never upgrade my
software, install new software, never upgrade my computer, because of a
slight risk. In particular, if something does go wrong, I am bound and
determined to find out why, one way or the other, rather than giving up and
not doing it.

If you wait until all known and unknown bugs are fixed, then might as well
never install any updates/upgrades.


Don Burnette







David Cook wrote:
I'm now recommending to people to HOLD OFF installing SP2 for a few
months, until the 'pioneers' who have been burned have a chance to
learn how to 'pull the arrows out of their butts'.

Consider this point of view:
o Numerous people are reporting problems as SEVERE as 'the computer
won't
boot' after installing SP2.
o You are currently at SP1 and have all the incremental-fixes
applied and your
machine is working very well, right?

So, just what SPECIFICALLY do you think that SP2 is gonna do for you?
Protect
your machine better? NO! SP2 is basically just all the individual
security fixes from
the past (that you ALREADY have installed individually) rolled up
into a LARGE
package, along with some new functionality (that you probably do not
need YET).
Sure, it may APPEAR to be more secure (because after SP2, it
automatically enables its own firewall [which you MAY or WANT at all,
especially if you are
already protected by a firewall by your router/firewall/accesspoint,
etc.] And, if you DO want a firewall, you already HAVE ONE IN YOUR
BASE WINDOWS-XP system, but you just have NOT turned it on!

Bottom line: I can NOT see ANY valid reason to install SP2 at this
time!
Past history has shown us that when these large 'service-pack'
bundles were released,
there were numerous SERIOUS problems for the first few months! (To
be very fair to Microsoft, they were eventually all figured out and
solved. But, not without
leaving previous carnage along the way to the pioneers who got
burned.)
So, I assert that 99% of you out there are MISUNDERSTANDING if you
think you ought to install it just because it's available.

Again, past history says that there will be a 'better, bug-fixed'
iteration of SP2
a few months from now (which Microsoft will probably just SILENTLY
slip into the servers at Windows-Update without ever admitting that
the earlier ones
had some serious 'lack of oversight' errors in).

As we like to say: "I've been down this road before!"

Chill out. Wait a while. A (new improved) SP2 will still be out
there a few
months from now.

Just my opinion, and I'm sticking by it.

Dave [just an educated 'user' of Win-XP]