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Blind people - Get this!!!!!!!!!!!



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 6th 19, 08:17 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
😉 Good Guy 😉
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Posts: 1,483
Default Blind people - Get this!!!!!!!!!!!

People with serious vision problems then you need this:

*ChromeVox Classic Extension
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chromevox-classic-extensi/kgejglhpjiefppelpmljglcjbhoiplfn?hl=en*
--
With over 1,000,000 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

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  #2  
Old October 6th 19, 09:09 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Springer[_2_]
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Posts: 3,817
Default Blind people - Get this!!!!!!!!!!!

On 10/6/19 1:17 PM, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
People with serious vision problems then you need this:

*ChromeVox Classic Extension
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chromevox-classic-extensi/kgejglhpjiefppelpmljglcjbhoiplfn?hl=en*sion of windows.


Now, how do you expect a blind person to read your post?

And if they are, they are, then they don't need an extension that works
only in Chrome, do they?


--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Firefox 69.0.2
Thunderbird 60.9
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
  #3  
Old October 7th 19, 05:29 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Gene Wirchenko[_3_]
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Posts: 17
Default Blind people - Get this!!!!!!!!!!!

On Sun, 6 Oct 2019 14:09:29 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 10/6/19 1:17 PM, ? Good Guy ? wrote:
People with serious vision problems then you need this:

*ChromeVox Classic Extension
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chromevox-classic-extensi/kgejglhpjiefppelpmljglcjbhoiplfn?hl=en*sion of windows.


Now, how do you expect a blind person to read your post?


There is software for that.

And if they are, they are, then they don't need an extension that works
only in Chrome, do they?


Maybe, just maybe, blind people like to find about software that
might work even better than what they are currently using.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
  #4  
Old October 7th 19, 02:35 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
Default Blind people - Get this!!!!!!!!!!!

"Gene Wirchenko" wrote

| And if they are, they are, then they don't need an extension that works
| only in Chrome, do they?
|
| Maybe, just maybe, blind people like to find about software that
| might work even better than what they are currently using.
|

Actually the link says it's just a scripted app. They recommend
a "full screen reader", yet the screenreader must be disabled to
use the app!

I have a blind friend who uses a combination of IE and MS
Word with JAWS. Why? Because screenreader software usually
works best with MS products. For two reasons. 1) They're so
ubiquitous that it makes sense for software companies to target
them. 2) Microsoft met them halfway by creating accessibility APIs.
Their accessibility functionality is limited, but it's far better
than 3rd-party options. Unless Google and Mozilla have recently
been focusing on helping blind people, their products are not
suitable for screen readers. They're too busy focusing on
turning webpages into bloated, interactive, spyware, javascript
software.

The ARIA idea is supposed to provide more of an API for
webmasters, but that's backward. Webpages should be using
basic HTML so that screenreaders can access them. ARIA
is aimed at so-called AJAX (interactive web apps reliant on
javascript with little HTML) and requires that webmasters
write pages targetted at screen readers. AJAX webmasters are
not going to do that. They're busy trying to figure out how
to make their menu slide into view in slomo, and how to fit another
Google/Doubleclick ad in the page. Most of them don't even
know how to write HTML. They're using automated tools and
code snippets they found online. That's why so many sites
malfunction in the same ways at the same time.

Even now, many websites made for the blind don't work very
well. There's no way those people are going to study and implement
ARIA so that someone using Chrome can access their page better
using an extension. If they have any sense they're not using
AJAX in the first place. Imagine the market for extra quiet mufflers
so that quadraplegics driving Corvettes can hear their books
on tape better. (Maybe that's why ChromeVox is no longer
being updated.)

The real breakthrough here is that people could filter
out Good Guy's posts and then we wouldn't need to have
these pointless threads.


  #5  
Old October 7th 19, 05:43 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Springer[_2_]
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Posts: 3,817
Default Blind people - Get this!!!!!!!!!!!

On 10/7/19 7:35 AM, Mayayana wrote:
"Gene Wirchenko" wrote

| And if they are, they are, then they don't need an extension that works
| only in Chrome, do they?
|
| Maybe, just maybe, blind people like to find about software that
| might work even better than what they are currently using.
|

Actually the link says it's just a scripted app. They recommend
a "full screen reader", yet the screenreader must be disabled to
use the app!

I have a blind friend who uses a combination of IE and MS
Word with JAWS.


Has your friend compared the current JAWS with the current Narrator?

snip


--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Firefox 69.0.2
Thunderbird 60.9
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
  #6  
Old October 7th 19, 07:56 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
Default Blind people - Get this!!!!!!!!!!!

"Ken Springer" wrote

| I have a blind friend who uses a combination of IE and MS
| Word with JAWS.
|
| Has your friend compared the current JAWS with the current Narrator?
|

I haven't seen him for awhile and don't know what
Narrator is, so I don't know. I'd be surprised if he's
updated recently. I think he managed to get his most
recent version by tutoring and thus qualifying for a
teacher's discount.


  #7  
Old October 7th 19, 08:33 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Springer[_2_]
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Posts: 3,817
Default Blind people - Get this!!!!!!!!!!!

On 10/7/19 12:56 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Ken Springer" wrote

| I have a blind friend who uses a combination of IE and MS
| Word with JAWS.
|
| Has your friend compared the current JAWS with the current Narrator?
|

I haven't seen him for awhile and don't know what
Narrator is, so I don't know. I'd be surprised if he's
updated recently. I think he managed to get his most
recent version by tutoring and thus qualifying for a
teacher's discount.


Narrator is Microsoft's screen reader that comes with Windows for some
time. I've just started comparing it to Jaws.

On a Mac, it's called Voice Over. Freedom Scientific does not provide a
Mac version of Jaws, so I've not played with it, as of yet.



--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Firefox 69.0.2
Thunderbird 60.9
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
  #8  
Old October 7th 19, 09:59 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
Default Blind people - Get this!!!!!!!!!!!

"Ken Springer" wrote

| Narrator is Microsoft's screen reader that comes with Windows for some
| time. I've just started comparing it to Jaws.
|

Ah. I didn't know about that. I wonder if they've expanded
the accessibility API in Win10. JAWS has been the Cadillac
in the past, as I understand it. But crazy expensive because
it could only work well via numerous hacks and still had limited
usefulness on any webpage of software GUI with funny business.
Webpage dropdown selectors, software with "skin"... lots of
things would leave JAWS barely useful.


  #9  
Old October 7th 19, 10:47 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Springer[_2_]
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Posts: 3,817
Default Blind people - Get this!!!!!!!!!!!

On 10/7/19 2:59 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Ken Springer" wrote

| Narrator is Microsoft's screen reader that comes with Windows for some
| time. I've just started comparing it to Jaws.
|

Ah. I didn't know about that. I wonder if they've expanded
the accessibility API in Win10. JAWS has been the Cadillac
in the past, as I understand it. But crazy expensive because
it could only work well via numerous hacks and still had limited
usefulness on any webpage of software GUI with funny business.
Webpage dropdown selectors, software with "skin"... lots of
things would leave JAWS barely useful.


Right now, the annual subscription rate for a home user, for JAWS, is
$80/year. I don't know what any of the previous rates were. So far, I
wouldn't use JAWS unless you are truly blind. On a current Mac, the
voice over also does something Braille, and if I understand that
correctly, there's some kind of monitor(s) out there that offers
physical Braille output. I have no actual idea how it works.

I tried running both Narrator and JAWS at the same time, but they talk
over each other, damned difficult to understand which program is saying
what. So at the moment I don't know if your comment about JAWS working
better with MS products is still true or not.

Either way, I have nothing but respect for the folks that can make this
idea work, and am fascinated at what their mental picture might be when
you hear what the screen reader says.

I have noticed the options for the user with visual issues has improved
tremendously in W10 from the "early days" of W10.

I would certainly recommend the person with the visual issues find
someone truly familiar with the various setting available currently, on
both Mac and Windows, before spending the additional money for possibly
little improvement. Especially for low income individuals.

Freedom Scientific also sells Zoom Text, which looks to be a lot like
Windows Magnifier + Narrator on steriods. But Magnifier is such an old
idea. I'm talking Windows 3.x days when I played with it, but back then
it was part of the graphics card software, and I think some of the terms
used were Virtual Desktop and Viewport. This is OK when you're working
with a 14" CRT, but with widescreen monitors and the ability to use a
lower screen resolution, I see no reason for Magnifier. Just select a
lower resolution with the correct aspect ratio, and use the system the
same as a normal sighted person who is using a physically smaller monitor.

Freedom Scientific also has other programs, but I have no idea, at the
moment, what they do.


--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Firefox 69.0.2
Thunderbird 60.9
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
  #10  
Old October 8th 19, 01:23 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
Default Blind people - Get this!!!!!!!!!!!

"Ken Springer" wrote

| Right now, the annual subscription rate for a home user, for JAWS, is
| $80/year. I don't know what any of the previous rates were. So far, I
| wouldn't use JAWS unless you are truly blind. On a current Mac, the
| voice over also does something Braille, and if I understand that
| correctly, there's some kind of monitor(s) out there that offers
| physical Braille output. I have no actual idea how it works.
|
| I tried running both Narrator and JAWS at the same time, but they talk
| over each other, damned difficult to understand which program is saying
| what. So at the moment I don't know if your comment about JAWS working
| better with MS products is still true or not.
|

I had never heard of Narrator but it turns out it's been
pre-installed since 2000. I tried the version on XP but
it's very limited. I've written more involved software myself.
It only names the window on top and narrates key presses.
So unless it's far more involved in Win10 it's of little value.

I don't know about Narrator in Win10. What I meant about
JAWS working better with MS products was that things like
IE and MS Word have historically had better support for
accessibility than 3rd party software. For instance, the IE
DOM and browser window access programmatically allow a
webpage to be walked and described by software. That kind
of thing is available in other browsers only from within the
webpage.


  #11  
Old October 8th 19, 01:52 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Springer[_2_]
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Posts: 3,817
Default Blind people - Get this!!!!!!!!!!!

On 10/7/19 6:23 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Ken Springer" wrote

| Right now, the annual subscription rate for a home user, for JAWS, is
| $80/year. I don't know what any of the previous rates were. So far, I
| wouldn't use JAWS unless you are truly blind. On a current Mac, the
| voice over also does something Braille, and if I understand that
| correctly, there's some kind of monitor(s) out there that offers
| physical Braille output. I have no actual idea how it works.
|
| I tried running both Narrator and JAWS at the same time, but they talk
| over each other, damned difficult to understand which program is saying
| what. So at the moment I don't know if your comment about JAWS working
| better with MS products is still true or not.
|

I had never heard of Narrator but it turns out it's been
pre-installed since 2000. I tried the version on XP but
it's very limited. I've written more involved software myself.
It only names the window on top and narrates key presses.
So unless it's far more involved in Win10 it's of little value.

I don't know about Narrator in Win10. What I meant about
JAWS working better with MS products was that things like
IE and MS Word have historically had better support for
accessibility than 3rd party software. For instance, the IE
DOM and browser window access programmatically allow a
webpage to be walked and described by software. That kind
of thing is available in other browsers only from within the
webpage.


I don't know about Narrator at all before starting to experiment/test a
couple weeks ago. But it seems that these programs could become
cumbersome for fast typists. We'll see.

And we don't want to forget that IE is a dead and almost buried horse.
Now what? G


--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Firefox 69.0.2
Thunderbird 60.9
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"
  #12  
Old October 8th 19, 04:16 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
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Posts: 6,438
Default Blind people - Get this!!!!!!!!!!!

"Ken Springer" wrote

| And we don't want to forget that IE is a dead and almost buried horse.
| Now what? G
|

Yes. Good point. I don't know what happens going forward.
Edge is still basically IE in terms of rendering, with the IE-specific
stuff stripped out. But Chrome Edge will be something else. And
I very much doubt they'll let programmers get hold of the browser
window in the Win10 kiosk services interface future.


 




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