Win 8.1 ate my hamster - I think

I have a copy of Win 8.1 Pro on a HDD which is not usually the first boot
drive - so it sits around waiting for me to get Vista into a state where I
can reliably move my environment across.

I would rather be running W8 Pro 64 bit than Vista 32 bit, but time costs
money etc.

So anyway, I changed the boot disc order, fired up Win 8 (a month or so in
zombie land), and applied the outstanding updates.

I then tried to apply 8.1 from the App item from the Start menu (got me a
Start Menu from Classic Shell) and it downloaded and applied up to the
reboot.

Then after the reboot it apologised for being a total waste of space and
reverted to 8.0.

After another couple of attempts and a Fixit or two I am now in the
position that Windows Update doesn't work any more.

So - probably I should go back to a restore point before I started
tinkering, fix any Update problems from there, and then start again.

Questions:

(1) Do I need to apply all the outstanding updates before going to 8.1 or
doesn't it matter?

(2) Is there a difference between starting from the desktop and the Metro
interface?

(3) I have downloaded 8.1 several times and have a directory structure
with the files extracted and a 'setup.exe' file. Can I just run the setup
file and avoid all the downloading? If I just repeat, it recognises that
the files are there and doesn't download again, but if I run the Fixit to
try and resolve Windows Update problems it clears the history and
downloads again.

I do have 'unlimited' data and a 30Mb/sec link but still, it seems time
consuming and wasteful.

(4) Should I just wait for a month or so until MS fix the flaky upgrade
process?

I would really like to be on W8.x instead of Vista, and I have a second
system queued up for an upgrade and an HDD tied up waiting to be freed off
and reformatted but if I can't trust the 8.1 upgrade I'm stuffed for the
moment.

I assume that there aren't going to be parallel security fixes for 8.0 and
8.1 for ever?

Cheers

Dave R

P.S. this is all hauntingly familiar.
I have just dug myself out of a major hole with Vista 32 bit where Windows
Update became totally screwed for no apparent reason.

I eventually cleared it by going back to a restore point, disabling Avast,
running the Fixit from Safe Mode, running the updates and installing
Microsoft Defender instead of Avast.

I blamed Avast for fighting with Windows Update.

I am now wondering if Defender is fighting with Windows Update.

Oh, and is there a Safe Mode with W8?

On 19 Oct 2013 20:27:31 GMT, "David.WE.Roberts"
wrote:

I have a copy of Win 8.1 Pro on a HDD which is not usually the first boot
drive - so it sits around waiting for me to get Vista into a state where I
can reliably move my environment across.

I would rather be running W8 Pro 64 bit than Vista 32 bit, but time costs
money etc.

So anyway, I changed the boot disc order, fired up Win 8 (a month or so in
zombie land), and applied the outstanding updates.

I then tried to apply 8.1 from the App item from the Start menu (got me a
Start Menu from Classic Shell) and it downloaded and applied up to the
reboot.

Then after the reboot it apologised for being a total waste of space and
reverted to 8.0.

After another couple of attempts and a Fixit or two I am now in the
position that Windows Update doesn't work any more.

So - probably I should go back to a restore point before I started
tinkering, fix any Update problems from there, and then start again.

Questions:

(1) Do I need to apply all the outstanding updates before going to 8.1 or
doesn't it matter?

(2) Is there a difference between starting from the desktop and the Metro
interface?

(3) I have downloaded 8.1 several times and have a directory structure
with the files extracted and a 'setup.exe' file. Can I just run the setup
file and avoid all the downloading? If I just repeat, it recognises that
the files are there and doesn't download again, but if I run the Fixit to
try and resolve Windows Update problems it clears the history and
downloads again.

I do have 'unlimited' data and a 30Mb/sec link but still, it seems time
consuming and wasteful.

(4) Should I just wait for a month or so until MS fix the flaky upgrade
process?

I would really like to be on W8.x instead of Vista, and I have a second
system queued up for an upgrade and an HDD tied up waiting to be freed off
and reformatted but if I can't trust the 8.1 upgrade I'm stuffed for the
moment.

I assume that there aren't going to be parallel security fixes for 8.0 and
8.1 for ever?

Cheers

Dave R

P.S. this is all hauntingly familiar.
I have just dug myself out of a major hole with Vista 32 bit where Windows
Update became totally screwed for no apparent reason.

I eventually cleared it by going back to a restore point, disabling Avast,
running the Fixit from Safe Mode, running the updates and installing
Microsoft Defender instead of Avast.

I blamed Avast for fighting with Windows Update.

I am now wondering if Defender is fighting with Windows Update.

Oh, and is there a Safe Mode with W8?

Hi David

When you say that it apologised before going back to Win 8 what was
the apology? If it was an issue with "we couldn't do something with
the sytem reserved partition" see my post just below yours.

I think that there is a safe mode with win 8 but it is not easy to get
to. From memory, you can get there if you can boot it to the login
screen and hold shift while clicking the icon to restart but I am not
sure.

Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!

"David.WE.Roberts" wrote:

I have a copy of Win 8.1 Pro on a HDD which is not usually the first boot
drive - so it sits around waiting for me to get Vista into a state where I
can reliably move my environment across.

I would rather be running W8 Pro 64 bit than Vista 32 bit, but time costs
money etc.

So anyway, I changed the boot disc order, fired up Win 8 (a month or so in
zombie land), and applied the outstanding updates.

I then tried to apply 8.1 from the App item from the Start menu (got me a
Start Menu from Classic Shell) and it downloaded and applied up to the
reboot.

Then after the reboot it apologised for being a total waste of space and
reverted to 8.0.

After another couple of attempts and a Fixit or two I am now in the
position that Windows Update doesn't work any more.

So - probably I should go back to a restore point before I started
tinkering, fix any Update problems from there, and then start again.

Questions:

(1) Do I need to apply all the outstanding updates before going to 8.1 or
doesn't it matter?

(2) Is there a difference between starting from the desktop and the Metro
interface?

(3) I have downloaded 8.1 several times and have a directory structure
with the files extracted and a 'setup.exe' file. Can I just run the setup
file and avoid all the downloading? If I just repeat, it recognises that
the files are there and doesn't download again, but if I run the Fixit to
try and resolve Windows Update problems it clears the history and
downloads again.

I do have 'unlimited' data and a 30Mb/sec link but still, it seems time
consuming and wasteful.

(4) Should I just wait for a month or so until MS fix the flaky upgrade
process?

I would really like to be on W8.x instead of Vista, and I have a second
system queued up for an upgrade and an HDD tied up waiting to be freed off
and reformatted but if I can't trust the 8.1 upgrade I'm stuffed for the
moment.

I assume that there aren't going to be parallel security fixes for 8.0 and
8.1 for ever?

Cheers

Dave R

P.S. this is all hauntingly familiar.
I have just dug myself out of a major hole with Vista 32 bit where Windows
Update became totally screwed for no apparent reason.

I eventually cleared it by going back to a restore point, disabling Avast,
running the Fixit from Safe Mode, running the updates and installing
Microsoft Defender instead of Avast.

I blamed Avast for fighting with Windows Update.

I am now wondering if Defender is fighting with Windows Update.

Oh, and is there a Safe Mode with W8?

--
The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG

Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city

Nay, Art thou decideth playeth ye simpleton games. *Some* of us know proper
manners

Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs but got fired the first day
on the job for potty mouth,

Bur-ring, i'll get this one: WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM JERK!!? We're here to help
you dickweed, ok, ok give the power cord the jiggily piggily wiggily all the
while pushing the power button repeatedly now take everything out of your
computer except the power supply and *one* stick of ram. Subscriber asks will
that ****in' work? I guaranDAMtee it. Ok get the next sucker on the phone.

Deirdre Straughan (Roxio) is a LIAR (Deirdre McFibber)

There's the employer and the employee and the FROGGER and the FROGEE, which
one are you?

Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!

El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar (I just got EL-FROG-OED!!)

All hail Chuckcar the CZAR!! Or in F-R-O-Gland Chuckcar laFROG laCZAR,
ChuckZar!!

I hate them both, With useless bogus bull**** you need at least *three*
fulltime jobs to afford either one of them

I'm a fulltime text *only* man on usenet now. The rest of the world downloads
the binary files not me i can't afford thousands of dollars a month

VBB = Volume based billing. How many bytes can we shove down your throat and
out your arse sir?

The only "fix" for the CellPig modem is a sledgehammer.

UBB = User based bullFROGGING

Colonel Debeers refuses to wrestle a black man
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3-o_dPhbGI)

Master Juba was a black man imitating a white man imitating a black man

Always do incremental backups of your data or you'll end up like the A-Holes
at DSL Reports. Justin says i made a boo-boo. Yeah boo-who.

Updates are for idiots. As long as the thing works there's no reason to turn
schizophrenic and develop a lifelong complex over such a silly issue.

You don't have to be "stinkbottomed" to post on this newsgroup

Anyone who disagrees with me gets FROG tape over their yapper

Adrian "jackpot" Lewis is a mama's boy!

Jimmy Fricke is good for the game of poker

Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions beyond
the realm of understandability

Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday

This sig file was compiled via my journeys through usenet

On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 00:21:31 +0100, Snuffin wrote:

On 19 Oct 2013 20:27:31 GMT, "David.WE.Roberts"
wrote:

I have a copy of Win 8.1 Pro on a HDD which is not usually the first
boot drive - so it sits around waiting for me to get Vista into a state
where I can reliably move my environment across.

I would rather be running W8 Pro 64 bit than Vista 32 bit, but time
costs money etc.

So anyway, I changed the boot disc order, fired up Win 8 (a month or so
in zombie land), and applied the outstanding updates.

I then tried to apply 8.1 from the App item from the Start menu (got me
a Start Menu from Classic Shell) and it downloaded and applied up to the
reboot.

Then after the reboot it apologised for being a total waste of space and
reverted to 8.0.

After another couple of attempts and a Fixit or two I am now in the
position that Windows Update doesn't work any more.

So - probably I should go back to a restore point before I started
tinkering, fix any Update problems from there, and then start again.

Questions:

(1) Do I need to apply all the outstanding updates before going to 8.1
or doesn't it matter?

(2) Is there a difference between starting from the desktop and the
Metro interface?

(3) I have downloaded 8.1 several times and have a directory structure
with the files extracted and a 'setup.exe' file. Can I just run the
setup file and avoid all the downloading? If I just repeat, it
recognises that the files are there and doesn't download again, but if I
run the Fixit to try and resolve Windows Update problems it clears the
history and downloads again.

I do have 'unlimited' data and a 30Mb/sec link but still, it seems time
consuming and wasteful.

(4) Should I just wait for a month or so until MS fix the flaky upgrade
process?

I would really like to be on W8.x instead of Vista, and I have a second
system queued up for an upgrade and an HDD tied up waiting to be freed
off and reformatted but if I can't trust the 8.1 upgrade I'm stuffed for
the moment.

I assume that there aren't going to be parallel security fixes for 8.0
and 8.1 for ever?

Cheers

Dave R

P.S. this is all hauntingly familiar.
I have just dug myself out of a major hole with Vista 32 bit where
Windows Update became totally screwed for no apparent reason.

I eventually cleared it by going back to a restore point, disabling
Avast,
running the Fixit from Safe Mode, running the updates and installing
Microsoft Defender instead of Avast.

I blamed Avast for fighting with Windows Update.

I am now wondering if Defender is fighting with Windows Update.

Oh, and is there a Safe Mode with W8?

Hi David

When you say that it apologised before going back to Win 8 what was the
apology? If it was an issue with "we couldn't do something with the
sytem reserved partition" see my post just below yours.

I think that there is a safe mode with win 8 but it is not easy to get
to. From memory, you can get there if you can boot it to the login
screen and hold shift while clicking the icon to restart but I am not
sure.

Apology was roughly 'unable to update to 8.1' with no explanation as to
why.

Didn't mention anything about a system reserved partition or anything else
vaguely useful.

Cheers

Dave R

David.WE.Roberts wrote:
On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 00:21:31 +0100, Snuffin wrote:

On 19 Oct 2013 20:27:31 GMT, "David.WE.Roberts"
wrote:

I have a copy of Win 8.1 Pro on a HDD which is not usually the first
boot drive - so it sits around waiting for me to get Vista into a state
where I can reliably move my environment across.

I would rather be running W8 Pro 64 bit than Vista 32 bit, but time
costs money etc.

So anyway, I changed the boot disc order, fired up Win 8 (a month or so
in zombie land), and applied the outstanding updates.

I then tried to apply 8.1 from the App item from the Start menu (got me
a Start Menu from Classic Shell) and it downloaded and applied up to the
reboot.

Then after the reboot it apologised for being a total waste of space and
reverted to 8.0.

After another couple of attempts and a Fixit or two I am now in the
position that Windows Update doesn't work any more.

So - probably I should go back to a restore point before I started
tinkering, fix any Update problems from there, and then start again.

Questions:

(1) Do I need to apply all the outstanding updates before going to 8.1
or doesn't it matter?

(2) Is there a difference between starting from the desktop and the
Metro interface?

(3) I have downloaded 8.1 several times and have a directory structure
with the files extracted and a 'setup.exe' file. Can I just run the
setup file and avoid all the downloading? If I just repeat, it
recognises that the files are there and doesn't download again, but if I
run the Fixit to try and resolve Windows Update problems it clears the
history and downloads again.

I do have 'unlimited' data and a 30Mb/sec link but still, it seems time
consuming and wasteful.

(4) Should I just wait for a month or so until MS fix the flaky upgrade
process?

I would really like to be on W8.x instead of Vista, and I have a second
system queued up for an upgrade and an HDD tied up waiting to be freed
off and reformatted but if I can't trust the 8.1 upgrade I'm stuffed for
the moment.

I assume that there aren't going to be parallel security fixes for 8.0
and 8.1 for ever?

Cheers

Dave R

P.S. this is all hauntingly familiar.
I have just dug myself out of a major hole with Vista 32 bit where
Windows Update became totally screwed for no apparent reason.

I eventually cleared it by going back to a restore point, disabling
Avast,
running the Fixit from Safe Mode, running the updates and installing
Microsoft Defender instead of Avast.

I blamed Avast for fighting with Windows Update.

I am now wondering if Defender is fighting with Windows Update.

Oh, and is there a Safe Mode with W8?
Hi David

When you say that it apologised before going back to Win 8 what was the
apology? If it was an issue with "we couldn't do something with the
sytem reserved partition" see my post just below yours.

I think that there is a safe mode with win 8 but it is not easy to get
to. From memory, you can get there if you can boot it to the login
screen and hold shift while clicking the icon to restart but I am not
sure.

Apology was roughly 'unable to update to 8.1' with no explanation as to
why.

Didn't mention anything about a system reserved partition or anything else
vaguely useful.

Cheers

Dave R

There should be a log file somewhere, from the failed attempt. The last
third of the log, might be filled with all the steps executed to
"back out" the update. So if you do find the log file, don't just
stare at the last line. The "reason" for the failure, is buried somewhere
in the middle of the log. It's a pain, on a large Microsoft log,
to find the causative event. You think they'd put something like
this, to make it easier to find.

**********

KABOOM ---

Backing out...

**********

Also, the contents of the log, would hardly be things
I'd put as "printf"'s, if I was writing the code. I don't
understand how they can track anything down from those logs.

The funniest thing I've found in a Microsoft log, was a deliberate
mis-spelling of a word. Once that word was put into Google,
the cure was immediately obvious in the search results. This
was sheer genius on the part of the person who put the
mis-spelling in their code :-) If they'd spelled the word
correctly, I never would have found the recipe to fix the problem
in Google.

Since Win 8.1 comes from the Store, I have no idea
where the log file would be hiding. Good luck with that.
Just look for all the .log files you can find, and pick the one
with a very recent time stamp.

Paul

On Sat, 19 Oct 2013 20:27:31 +0000, David.WE.Roberts wrote:

I have a copy of Win 8.1 Pro on a HDD which is not usually the first
boot drive - so it sits around waiting for me to get Vista into a state
where I can reliably move my environment across.

I would rather be running W8 Pro 64 bit than Vista 32 bit, but time
costs money etc.

So anyway, I changed the boot disc order, fired up Win 8 (a month or so
in zombie land), and applied the outstanding updates.

I then tried to apply 8.1 from the App item from the Start menu (got me
a Start Menu from Classic Shell) and it downloaded and applied up to the
reboot.

Then after the reboot it apologised for being a total waste of space and
reverted to 8.0.
snip

I think I may have an idea about what is going wrong.
This is stirring crusty memories from when I did the first install.

I installed Windows 8 to a brand new 1TB drive, refreshed it to activate
the upgrade licence, then cloned the original Vista system across with the
intention of booting into Vista, transferring stuff to Win 8, booting into
Win 8, checking all O.K., going back to Vista to move some more stuff,
checking in Win8 and so on until I was confident that Win 8 was going
smoothly and I could retire Vista permanently.

I installed Ubuntu to get grub2 as the boot manager.

Then I discovered that Vista would not boot; apparently it isn't as
flexible as Linux in booting.

I should have cloned Vista, installed W8 as dual boot, then installed
Ubuntu and chosen to boot into Windows Boot Manager (then chosen W8 or
Vista) or booted into Ubuntu.

So, back to square one time with a (scrub disc, clone Vista, install W8,
install Ubuntu) and run out of time.

So I put back the original HDD (which was destined for another system) and
reverted to Vista.

I found that if I switched boot order of the HDDs in the BIOS I could
still boot W8 from grub2, so I updated it every couple of months and quite
quickly forgot the fine detail.

I started to remember when my attempted fixes got to trying to refresh the
W8 installation.

Booted up from the W8 DVD and it only offered Vista as a target system.

[Note: the old Vist HDD is sda/sd1, the new 1TB HDD is sdb/sd2.]

I think that for some reason Win 8 when repairing (or doing other things
such as an 8.1 upgrade) only looks at the first physical drive.

From my (possibly faulty) memories of Win2K and XP a repair from the
install disc located Windows instances on all available HDDs.

Anyway, I know a refresh worked at install time and it doesn't work now
and the major difference is the HDD configuration.

So I'm back on Vista yet again until I get time to take the system apart
and tinker with the HDD.

I may just disconnect the old HDD and see if
(1) a refresh can now see Win 8
(2) Win 8.1 will now install.

Either way, I will need to go back and re-jig the discs so I can do the
Vista-Win 8 thing until I get my stuff across and everything working O.K.

I know that with an upgrade licence I can't retain the dual boot long term
but I see no reason not to flip the systems during the upgrade process and
subsequent system acceptance testing.

Oh, and another thing (from the snipped bit) - Windows Update seems to
have fixed itself without any further aid from me.

Oh, and another thing - I went looking for a restore point and System
Restore was turned off. Don't know if I did this myself in a moment of
madness or if it is off by default. Memo to self - check other systems!

Cheers

Dave R

David.WE.Roberts wrote:
On Sat, 19 Oct 2013 20:27:31 +0000, David.WE.Roberts wrote:

I have a copy of Win 8.1 Pro on a HDD which is not usually the first
boot drive - so it sits around waiting for me to get Vista into a state
where I can reliably move my environment across.

I would rather be running W8 Pro 64 bit than Vista 32 bit, but time
costs money etc.

So anyway, I changed the boot disc order, fired up Win 8 (a month or so
in zombie land), and applied the outstanding updates.

I then tried to apply 8.1 from the App item from the Start menu (got me
a Start Menu from Classic Shell) and it downloaded and applied up to the
reboot.

Then after the reboot it apologised for being a total waste of space and
reverted to 8.0.
snip

I think I may have an idea about what is going wrong.
This is stirring crusty memories from when I did the first install.

I installed Windows 8 to a brand new 1TB drive, refreshed it to activate
the upgrade licence, then cloned the original Vista system across with the
intention of booting into Vista, transferring stuff to Win 8, booting into
Win 8, checking all O.K., going back to Vista to move some more stuff,
checking in Win8 and so on until I was confident that Win 8 was going
smoothly and I could retire Vista permanently.

I installed Ubuntu to get grub2 as the boot manager.

Then I discovered that Vista would not boot; apparently it isn't as
flexible as Linux in booting.

I should have cloned Vista, installed W8 as dual boot, then installed
Ubuntu and chosen to boot into Windows Boot Manager (then chosen W8 or
Vista) or booted into Ubuntu.

So, back to square one time with a (scrub disc, clone Vista, install W8,
install Ubuntu) and run out of time.

So I put back the original HDD (which was destined for another system) and
reverted to Vista.

I found that if I switched boot order of the HDDs in the BIOS I could
still boot W8 from grub2, so I updated it every couple of months and quite
quickly forgot the fine detail.

I started to remember when my attempted fixes got to trying to refresh the
W8 installation.

Booted up from the W8 DVD and it only offered Vista as a target system.

[Note: the old Vist HDD is sda/sd1, the new 1TB HDD is sdb/sd2.]

I think that for some reason Win 8 when repairing (or doing other things
such as an 8.1 upgrade) only looks at the first physical drive.

From my (possibly faulty) memories of Win2K and XP a repair from the
install disc located Windows instances on all available HDDs.

Anyway, I know a refresh worked at install time and it doesn't work now
and the major difference is the HDD configuration.

So I'm back on Vista yet again until I get time to take the system apart
and tinker with the HDD.

I may just disconnect the old HDD and see if
(1) a refresh can now see Win 8
(2) Win 8.1 will now install.

Either way, I will need to go back and re-jig the discs so I can do the
Vista-Win 8 thing until I get my stuff across and everything working O.K.

I know that with an upgrade licence I can't retain the dual boot long term
but I see no reason not to flip the systems during the upgrade process and
subsequent system acceptance testing.

Oh, and another thing (from the snipped bit) - Windows Update seems to
have fixed itself without any further aid from me.

Oh, and another thing - I went looking for a restore point and System
Restore was turned off. Don't know if I did this myself in a moment of
madness or if it is off by default. Memo to self - check other systems!

Cheers

Dave R

Since you are "multibooting in style", I have a suggestion
for you.

Get yourself a USB flash stick, and put Linux on that. I
run Linux Mint (Mate version) on a USB3 stick, plugged into
a USB2 port. I used to have Ubuntu on there (with persistent
4GB bitmap storage file "casper-rw"), and now Mint takes
its place. Mint has a persistent storage file as well.
(Ubuntu Unity tile based interface, sucks. So I switched
to Mint, when the Ubuntu was out of support period.)
The file system on the USB flash is FAT32, the OS portion
is effectively read-only, and the persistent file is a
"container" for loop-mounted EXT3 file system. Your OS
changes and updates, as well as user data files, live
in the persistent file. Since the stick is FAT32, I also
use the stick to transport files between computers. A 32GB
stick has plenty of room for both.

And I use the BIOS popup boot menu, to select
it as a "separate disk". Any system modern enough to run
Windows 8, will have a function key to press at system
start, to access the popup boot menu. On my laptop,
I press F12 with the Mint flash plugged in, to boot
Mint over there.

By doing that, you can reduce your "OS load" by one.

*******

Yes, the license terms may say your Windows 8 is an
"upgrade" version with a qualifying OS, but physically,
you can continue to run the two OSes. When I installed
my Windows 8 Upgrade ($39.95), there was no qualifying OS
present, and I used the double install method. I don't
think the terms of the EULA are enforced by stop-dead
behaviors.

You can install OSes in just about any order you
want... if you're sufficiently knowledgeable about
"boot stuff". There used to be commercial boot
managers, that would manage all the OSes equally.
(I think the one I used on my first PC was called
"Boot Magic" or something. In the boot menu I had
Win98 and some flavor of FreeBSD.) I don't claim to be
an "elite boot expert", but there are a couple web
forums that specialize in boot tricks, and they
can probably provide more details.

I also had one Linux distro here, where I decided
not to use GRUB on the distro at all, and instead
GRUB was placed on a floppy diskette. You started
the boot from the floppy, then selected Linux
from the floppy menu, and the partition on one
of the disks with the Linux on it, would then boot.
You could then pop the floppy out and put it away.
If you didn't have the floppy, you couldn't boot
from that Linux. And it also didn't upset the
other Windows OSes that way. Now, the only problem
with that idea, is eventually I misplaced the floppy :-)

So there are a ton of ways to do this stuff, and
not enough hours in the day to document them all.

Paul

On 2013-10-25 3:57 PM, David.WE.Roberts wrote:
On Sat, 19 Oct 2013 20:27:31 +0000, David.WE.Roberts wrote:

I have a copy of Win 8.1 Pro on a HDD which is not usually the first
boot drive - so it sits around waiting for me to get Vista into a state
where I can reliably move my environment across.

I would rather be running W8 Pro 64 bit than Vista 32 bit, but time
costs money etc.

So anyway, I changed the boot disc order, fired up Win 8 (a month or so
in zombie land), and applied the outstanding updates.

I then tried to apply 8.1 from the App item from the Start menu (got me
a Start Menu from Classic Shell) and it downloaded and applied up to the
reboot.

Then after the reboot it apologised for being a total waste of space and
reverted to 8.0.
snip

I think I may have an idea about what is going wrong.
This is stirring crusty memories from when I did the first install.

I installed Windows 8 to a brand new 1TB drive, refreshed it to activate
the upgrade licence, then cloned the original Vista system across with the
intention of booting into Vista, transferring stuff to Win 8, booting into
Win 8, checking all O.K., going back to Vista to move some more stuff,
checking in Win8 and so on until I was confident that Win 8 was going
smoothly and I could retire Vista permanently.

I installed Ubuntu to get grub2 as the boot manager.

Then I discovered that Vista would not boot; apparently it isn't as
flexible as Linux in booting.

I should have cloned Vista, installed W8 as dual boot, then installed
Ubuntu and chosen to boot into Windows Boot Manager (then chosen W8 or
Vista) or booted into Ubuntu.

So, back to square one time with a (scrub disc, clone Vista, install W8,
install Ubuntu) and run out of time.

So I put back the original HDD (which was destined for another system) and
reverted to Vista.

I found that if I switched boot order of the HDDs in the BIOS I could
still boot W8 from grub2, so I updated it every couple of months and quite
quickly forgot the fine detail.

I started to remember when my attempted fixes got to trying to refresh the
W8 installation.

Booted up from the W8 DVD and it only offered Vista as a target system.

[Note: the old Vist HDD is sda/sd1, the new 1TB HDD is sdb/sd2.]

I think that for some reason Win 8 when repairing (or doing other things
such as an 8.1 upgrade) only looks at the first physical drive.

From my (possibly faulty) memories of Win2K and XP a repair from the
install disc located Windows instances on all available HDDs.

Anyway, I know a refresh worked at install time and it doesn't work now
and the major difference is the HDD configuration.

So I'm back on Vista yet again until I get time to take the system apart
and tinker with the HDD.

I may just disconnect the old HDD and see if
(1) a refresh can now see Win 8
(2) Win 8.1 will now install.

Either way, I will need to go back and re-jig the discs so I can do the
Vista-Win 8 thing until I get my stuff across and everything working O.K.

I know that with an upgrade licence I can't retain the dual boot long term
but I see no reason not to flip the systems during the upgrade process and
subsequent system acceptance testing.

Oh, and another thing (from the snipped bit) - Windows Update seems to
have fixed itself without any further aid from me.

Oh, and another thing - I went looking for a restore point and System
Restore was turned off. Don't know if I did this myself in a moment of
madness or if it is off by default. Memo to self - check other systems!

Cheers

Dave R


Maybe you frig around too much. Grub? and Windows? .. together? LOL

I've found that mixing the two - Linux and Windows - on one computer
inevitably becomes problematic. And it is usually pointless.

I would venture that what you want is a stable working computer system.
You really only need one OS for that. If you do "testing", virtual
machines usually can handle most scenarios.

Think a bit strategically and then set up your system. Windows 8.1 will
be supported until the 2020s sometime.

WireTalk

--

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The Lord makes all things new:

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New software for Christians who've decided to get honest.

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And every man that hath this hope in
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1 John 3 : 3
--