If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Rate Thread | Display Modes |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
xfile wrote, On 12/2/2013 11:53 PM:
The old-guard approach is changing..but, still too many good-old-boys in the enterprise driven financial approval process to risk change (and still seen as change for the sake of change) in the big-bucks corporate world. Fully agreed. No rational manager will change perfectly working systems for the sake of change including OS upgrade not to mention for business applications and backbone systems. Look at the Windows XP's share which,still, is stubbornly taking around 30%. And that is why I mentioned "It's not going to change anytime soon, but it's "enterprises."" However, the point is that the synergy created by the server products, client OS, development tools, Office, and consumer service is falling apart and each category is being attacked heavily by competitors. When new investments on backbone systems are not bound by Windows platforms, the linkage between the back- and front-end is broken which means that it doesn't have to use client Windows as the front-end interface. So, the old mentality and approach of using business requirements to creating/forcing consumer needs will not work - for long. The PDF format afiacs is a logical one due to the ability to commonize file type and protect the distribution of proprietary information in documents. One of the best things coming out of the whole Web-based thing is that everything is moving, though gradually, to standard protocols and formats, and PDF is just one of them. And platform will become/is becoming a less important factor. Where will it end up ? Maybe your plan will prove true....but imo, your plan to 'move away' with any significant impact on market based adoption is a decade away. A decade would be an optimistic estimate And it's not my plan, sort of speaking. As they say, Rome wasn't built nor burnt in a day. Adaptation is necessary well in advance of that possible objective. It is happening just in case you didn't notice. Consumer and business are delaying their purchase/upgrade on Windows PCs. New investments on backbone systems are gradually moving away from Windows platforms especially for SMB's and some enterprises. Windows-based devices are taking a relatively small percentage of the market share. Again, the old mentality and approach of using business requirements to creating/forcing consumer needs will not work - for long. They need to create something decent to *re-attract* the market, and the current approach (e.g. Windows 8.x) isn't going to work. I don't see the XP share of 30% as stubborn, a short time ago it was hovering around about 43%. 13% is a significant drop and like other o/s when extended support ends any stubbornness rapidly dissipates. The real competition is centered on the smart devices. The enterprise and SMB environments have been slow to develop plans to permit use of smart devices. Originally it was fear of wifi, which was mostly based on some of that same good-old-boy IT power struggle/politics (protect our domain and livelihood) and completely missing the real issue of how to adapt and accommodate the inevitable use of those devices. That IT power play attempt was upset when high level business decision managers started showing up at work with iPads and other smart devices realizing that use of provided faster and more productive communication which does lend credence to the presence of competition but not necessarily adoption of same. Additionally, the majority of the user base (consumer, smb, and enterprise) has years of hands-on experience using MSFT products and weaning and retraining that entire population to something else is not economical. Consumer and business delays relative to purchase/upgrade isn't really about Windows...it's foundation has different reasons for consumers vs. business. The former - disposable income has been stagnant for quite some time, the latter - the desire to increase cash flow and reserves fearing another downturn or global recessionary phase. Though neither of these are sustainable reasons since the need and method to communication has changed - i.e. adapt or lose the ability to communicate on all fronts (home-work-everywhere) Agreed, MSFT does need to address the shortcomings of the Win8x style, but under-the-hood (push the UI aside) and its pretty much Win7 on steroids (faster, more secure, and capable of sync with multiple smart devices). Throw in the expiration of security updates for XP with its soon-to-be bigger bulls-eye vulnerability and it should be pretty obvious that MSFT is perfectly comfortable with first moving that 30% XP base to Win7 or Win8 since any delay for that population (hardware/software) is short term. Which then leaves what direction does Win8/Win X.x go. Win 8.0/8.1 is culture shock but necessary to change the model. Wherever it goes, its closer to the future model than most may realize (or even willing to admit). -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
Ads |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
On 12/3/2013 16:05, ...winston wrote:
xfile wrote, On 12/2/2013 11:53 PM: The old-guard approach is changing..but, still too many good-old-boys in the enterprise driven financial approval process to risk change (and still seen as change for the sake of change) in the big-bucks corporate world. Fully agreed. No rational manager will change perfectly working systems for the sake of change including OS upgrade not to mention for business applications and backbone systems. Look at the Windows XP's share which,still, is stubbornly taking around 30%. And that is why I mentioned "It's not going to change anytime soon, but it's "enterprises."" However, the point is that the synergy created by the server products, client OS, development tools, Office, and consumer service is falling apart and each category is being attacked heavily by competitors. When new investments on backbone systems are not bound by Windows platforms, the linkage between the back- and front-end is broken which means that it doesn't have to use client Windows as the front-end interface. So, the old mentality and approach of using business requirements to creating/forcing consumer needs will not work - for long. The PDF format afiacs is a logical one due to the ability to commonize file type and protect the distribution of proprietary information in documents. One of the best things coming out of the whole Web-based thing is that everything is moving, though gradually, to standard protocols and formats, and PDF is just one of them. And platform will become/is becoming a less important factor. Where will it end up ? Maybe your plan will prove true....but imo, your plan to 'move away' with any significant impact on market based adoption is a decade away. A decade would be an optimistic estimate And it's not my plan, sort of speaking. As they say, Rome wasn't built nor burnt in a day. Adaptation is necessary well in advance of that possible objective. It is happening just in case you didn't notice. Consumer and business are delaying their purchase/upgrade on Windows PCs. New investments on backbone systems are gradually moving away from Windows platforms especially for SMB's and some enterprises. Windows-based devices are taking a relatively small percentage of the market share. Again, the old mentality and approach of using business requirements to creating/forcing consumer needs will not work - for long. They need to create something decent to *re-attract* the market, and the current approach (e.g. Windows 8.x) isn't going to work. I don't see the XP share of 30% as stubborn, a short time ago it was hovering around about 43%. 13% is a significant drop and like other o/s when extended support ends any stubbornness rapidly dissipates. The real competition is centered on the smart devices. The enterprise and SMB environments have been slow to develop plans to permit use of smart devices. Originally it was fear of wifi, which was mostly based on some of that same good-old-boy IT power struggle/politics (protect our domain and livelihood) and completely missing the real issue of how to adapt and accommodate the inevitable use of those devices. That IT power play attempt was upset when high level business decision managers started showing up at work with iPads and other smart devices realizing that use of provided faster and more productive communication which does lend credence to the presence of competition but not necessarily adoption of same. Additionally, the majority of the user base (consumer, smb, and enterprise) has years of hands-on experience using MSFT products and weaning and retraining that entire population to something else is not economical. Consumer and business delays relative to purchase/upgrade isn't really about Windows...it's foundation has different reasons for consumers vs. business. The former - disposable income has been stagnant for quite some time, the latter - the desire to increase cash flow and reserves fearing another downturn or global recessionary phase. Though neither of these are sustainable reasons since the need and method to communication has changed - i.e. adapt or lose the ability to communicate on all fronts (home-work-everywhere) Agreed, MSFT does need to address the shortcomings of the Win8x style, but under-the-hood (push the UI aside) and its pretty much Win7 on steroids (faster, more secure, and capable of sync with multiple smart devices). Throw in the expiration of security updates for XP with its soon-to-be bigger bulls-eye vulnerability and it should be pretty obvious that MSFT is perfectly comfortable with first moving that 30% XP base to Win7 or Win8 since any delay for that population (hardware/software) is short term. Which then leaves what direction does Win8/Win X.x go. Win 8.0/8.1 is culture shock but necessary to change the model. Wherever it goes, its closer to the future model than most may realize (or even willing to admit). Certain smart devices (e.g. blackberry) have been well integrated into the business environment for a while, except with this kind of scale. Although economic condition is a factor, but the real determinant factor is the combination of diminishing return of replacing computers including upgrading to a new version of Windows AND moving to Web-based applications including office and business applications. In general, we are going back to the "thin client" era for which we are not going to need more and more horsepower for client computers, and smart devices (not necessarily with a touch screen) are just part of the thin client movement. And as I mentioned, when everything is gradually moving to Web-based, protocols and formats are going to be standardized, platform is less an issue (i.e. you can use Office 365 Web on PC, Mac, and Linux) and training for back-end systems or front-end interface are not going to be as difficult as the days when people were bound by proprietary standards, protocols, and formats. Whatever direction the company may go, the days of platform war - once you are committed to a platform, you are bound by it, is quickly going away. That means they can quick thinking about their leverage power (forcing people to upgrade) and better have a brand new start. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
Per Wolf Kirchmeir:
With such a machine plus a simple (== cheap) smart phone you'd have everything you need: a client as thin or thick as you like, and connectivity to anything and everything. Those things have been calling out to me too - as a replacement for my 10.1" Android tablet. Two issues so far: - Battery life. I have no clue as to how competitive the Surface devices are with my Samsung tablet battery-life-wise. - On/Off. The Android device has two "Off" states. Hit the power button once, and the screen just goes blank. Hit and hold, and you get an option for total shutdown. Coming back from the blank screen is almost instantaneous: hit the button, swipe the screen, and you're good to go. And my device will go over 12 hours in the "Screen Off" state with only about 1 percent loss of battery - although that's after rooting it and cleaning out some stuff that I don't want running 24-7. I can't fund such an option on the Surface devices. Maybe it's there and I'm not seeing it... but so far it looks like the only options are shutdown, sleep, and hibernate - all of which take vastly too long for convenient intermittent use. -- Pete Cresswell --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
On 12/3/13 1:05 AM, ...winston wrote:
xfile wrote, On 12/2/2013 11:53 PM: The old-guard approach is changing..but, still too many good-old-boys in the enterprise driven financial approval process to risk change (and still seen as change for the sake of change) in the big-bucks corporate world. Fully agreed. No rational manager will change perfectly working systems for the sake of change including OS upgrade not to mention for business applications and backbone systems. Look at the Windows XP's share which,still, is stubbornly taking around 30%. And that is why I mentioned "It's not going to change anytime soon, but it's "enterprises."" However, the point is that the synergy created by the server products, client OS, development tools, Office, and consumer service is falling apart and each category is being attacked heavily by competitors. When new investments on backbone systems are not bound by Windows platforms, the linkage between the back- and front-end is broken which means that it doesn't have to use client Windows as the front-end interface. So, the old mentality and approach of using business requirements to creating/forcing consumer needs will not work - for long. The PDF format afiacs is a logical one due to the ability to commonize file type and protect the distribution of proprietary information in documents. One of the best things coming out of the whole Web-based thing is that everything is moving, though gradually, to standard protocols and formats, and PDF is just one of them. And platform will become/is becoming a less important factor. Where will it end up ? Maybe your plan will prove true....but imo, your plan to 'move away' with any significant impact on market based adoption is a decade away. A decade would be an optimistic estimate And it's not my plan, sort of speaking. As they say, Rome wasn't built nor burnt in a day. Adaptation is necessary well in advance of that possible objective. It is happening just in case you didn't notice. Consumer and business are delaying their purchase/upgrade on Windows PCs. New investments on backbone systems are gradually moving away from Windows platforms especially for SMB's and some enterprises. Windows-based devices are taking a relatively small percentage of the market share. Again, the old mentality and approach of using business requirements to creating/forcing consumer needs will not work - for long. They need to create something decent to *re-attract* the market, and the current approach (e.g. Windows 8.x) isn't going to work. I don't see the XP share of 30% as stubborn, a short time ago it was hovering around about 43%. 13% is a significant drop and like other o/s when extended support ends any stubbornness rapidly dissipates. Would you and xfile put some dates on those percentage numbers? Without a timeframe, the percentages become meaningless. The real competition is centered on the smart devices. The enterprise and SMB environments have been slow to develop plans to permit use of smart devices. Originally it was fear of wifi, which was mostly based on some of that same good-old-boy IT power struggle/politics (protect our domain and livelihood) and completely missing the real issue of how to adapt and accommodate the inevitable use of those devices. That IT power play attempt was upset when high level business decision managers started showing up at work with iPads and other smart devices realizing that use of provided faster and more productive communication which does lend credence to the presence of competition but not necessarily adoption of same. Additionally, the majority of the user base (consumer, smb, and enterprise) has years of hands-on experience using MSFT products and weaning and retraining that entire population to something else is not economical. I think it will become economical when businesses begin to see customers using non-MS products because consumers can no longer justify the cost for the benefits they get. And I think chances are, the smaller the business the more likely they will drop MS because their profit margins are getting smaller and smaller. Why pay for Word for generic communications when the free product does just as well, and maybe better for an individual or small company? And if the move to PDF files continues to grow for a transmittal file format, who cares which program is used? Consumer and business delays relative to purchase/upgrade isn't really about Windows...it's foundation has different reasons for consumers vs. business. The former - disposable income has been stagnant for quite some time, the latter - the desire to increase cash flow and reserves fearing another downturn or global recessionary phase. Though neither of these are sustainable reasons since the need and method to communication has changed - i.e. adapt or lose the ability to communicate on all fronts (home-work-everywhere) Agreed, MSFT does need to address the shortcomings of the Win8x style, but under-the-hood (push the UI aside) and its pretty much Win7 on steroids (faster, more secure, and capable of sync with multiple smart devices). Throw in the expiration of security updates for XP with its soon-to-be bigger bulls-eye vulnerability and it should be pretty obvious that MSFT is perfectly comfortable with first moving that 30% XP base to Win7 or Win8 since any delay for that population (hardware/software) is short term. Isn't it an assumption that XP will be seriously targeted? One thing I'd be interested in knowing is what percentage of XP users are private individuals vs. business use in large corporations. I'm relatively sure that my Neighbor the Plumber doesn't have much on his XP computer that hackers would find enticing enough to look at. Which then leaves what direction does Win8/Win X.x go. Win 8.0/8.1 is culture shock but necessary to change the model. Wherever it goes, its closer to the future model than most may realize (or even willing to admit). I've not played with 8.x hardly at all. And, at first hated the Metro/Modern/Whatever UI. Then I read somewhere it was basically the Start Menu displayed differently. So I started looking, and then it wasn't that bad, although there is/was a bunch of crap I'm not interested in. I wonder if things would have worked out a bit different if MS had simply said that. :-) -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 24.0 Thunderbird 17.0.8 |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 09:31:47 -0500, Wolf Kirchmeir
wrote: On 2013-12-03 4:41 AM, xfile wrote: [...] And as I mentioned, when everything is gradually moving to Web-based, protocols and formats are going to be standardized, platform is less an issue (i.e. you can use Office 365 Web on PC, Mac, and Linux) and training for back-end systems or front-end interface are not going to be as difficult as the days when people were bound by proprietary standards, protocols, and formats. [...] That's why I'm looking at the Surface Pro. It's a real computer, not just a "smart device". Any 3rd party Win compatible program will run on it. It needs a few tweaks to make connection to wi-fi/Bluetooth devices automagical, so that printing, external backup, streaming to large screens, linkage to smart appliances, etc, is just a couple gestures or clicks away. VPN should be standard, and as easy to set up as a user account. With such a machine plus a simple (== cheap) smart phone you'd have everything you need: a client as thin or thick as you like, and connectivity to anything and everything. "Smart devices" are of course computers. That they do so little is a marketing decision. Don't they essentially do all of the things you mentioned above? 1. connect to WiFi/Bluetooth devices 2. printing 3. external backup 4. streaming to large screens 5. linkage to smart appliances 6. VPN 7. plus a whole lot more I have a really hard time looking at my smart devices and thinking that they do so little. To me, it's amazing that they do so much! IMO, a Surface Pro built as a large smart-phone, plus the connectivity alluded to above, would be the _single_ device that does everything. That's what I want. |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
Would you and xfile put some dates on those percentage numbers?
Without a timeframe, the percentages become meaningless. Mine was based on memory of reading a very recent report which is around 28%-29%,but I don't have it with me. But it's easy to find other numbers, such as reported by Netmarketshare, which has a even higher percentage: 31.22% (http://netmarketshare.com/operating-...0&qpcustomd=0). IDC also released a press release for general public titled: IDC Forecasts PC Shipments to Fall by Double Digits In 2013; Volumes Are Expected To Stabilize Above 300 Million Units per Year, But With No Significant Recovery (http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS24466513) Excerpt: "The commercial market is faring notably better than the consumer market in 2013 with shipments declining by -5% year over year compared to nearly -15% for consumer." "The relative stability is due to a mix of more stable PC investment planning, a smaller impact from tablets, and to replacements of Windows XP systems before the end of support planned for 2014." "However, the long-term outlook for the two markets is not significantly different, with a small decline projected for both consumer and commercial segments in 2014 with near flat growth in the longer term." Edit: Replacement of XP from business will help but "the long-term outlook for the two markets is not significantly different, [...]". Excerpt: "Perhaps the chief concern for future PC demand is a lack of reasons to replace an older system," said Jay Chou, Senior Research Analyst, Worldwide Quarterly PC Trackers at IDC." Edit: This is what is called "diminishing return" that I mentioned, which means that there is little or no benefits for additional investments including for replacements, and it has been like this for some time. |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
On 12/3/13 7:31 AM, Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:
IMO, a Surface Pro built as a large smart-phone, plus the connectivity alluded to above, would be the_single_ device that does everything. That's what I want. Ah, yes... I can see it now... Wolf standing at the airport gate, 10" tablet to his ear, talking on the phone... ------ Just kidding! LOL -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 24.0 Thunderbird 17.0.8 |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
On 12/3/13 7:42 PM, Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:
On 2013-12-03 8:55 PM, Ken Springer wrote: On 12/3/13 7:31 AM, Wolf Kirchmeir wrote: IMO, a Surface Pro built as a large smart-phone, plus the connectivity alluded to above, would be the_single_ device that does everything. That's what I want. Ah, yes... I can see it now... Wolf standing at the airport gate, 10" tablet to his ear, talking on the phone... ------ Just kidding! LOL Sony Xperia looks good, too. ;-) I'm looking at the 7" units, but not full blown computer capable. I like screen real estate, and just using a netbook frustrates the devil out of me. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 24.0 Thunderbird 17.0.8 |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
Ken Springer wrote, On 12/3/2013 7:04 PM:
Would you and xfile put some dates on those percentage numbers? Without a timeframe, the percentages become meaningless. I've not played with 8.x hardly at all. And, at first hated the Metro/Modern/Whatever UI. Then I read somewhere it was basically the Start Menu displayed differently. So I started looking, and then it wasn't that bad, although there is/was a bunch of crap I'm not interested in. I wonder if things would have worked out a bit different if MS had simply said that. :-) Hi Ken, xfile provided a link for the ~30% XP market share The below 40% market penetration was last Dec 2012. The 43 % the prior quarter. Google or Bing should yield a variety of hits for XP Market share when searching in the Dec 2012 and Sept 2012 timeframe. My point was that a double digit drop is significant and XP (as end-of-life for product and security approaches in April 2014) will continue to see further declines. Correct, the 8x UI has a lot of unnecessary 'apps' that most will never use many of which provide a Metro UI type representation (modern UI IE mode) of the same articles found on MSFT's media (MSN) site (News, Sports, Weather, Maps, yada...) - even with all the extras, its just a simple select, rt click to unpin the item from the Modern UI Start Screen. Also of note, even the Modern UI Start Screen (which scrolls horizontally) the installed Desktop apps can be automatically positioned to appear first (left side). Likewise, if desired, one can configure it for Modern UI apps to appear first. If one chooses to have a mixture then 8.1 provides more grouping and options for rearrangement on the modern UI than 8.0. My personal approach is to configure the Modern UI with those applications (desktop) and the few apps (Modern UI) that I use most frequently in one group, a second group with application/apps that I use but not as often as the first group, and a third and final group with Windows and application software utilities. I supplement the Desktop mode by using both the Quick Launch toolbar and the Windows Taskbar (the latter because it allows me to pin items to an application and/or use Jump Lists). With that approach, no matter where I am I'm just a small step away of doing anything I've previously done for years on Windows 7. What has also worked out better for me, is Win8 and Win7 networking (sharing, printing, wifi) and sharing (music, photos) is much more effective than Win7-XP or even Win7-Win7 ever was. 8.x may take some time to achieve the same comfort level but imo it is not as 'evil' and disconnected as many make or percieve it to be. -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
....winston wrote:
Ken Springer wrote, On 12/3/2013 7:04 PM: Would you and xfile put some dates on those percentage numbers? Without a timeframe, the percentages become meaningless. I've not played with 8.x hardly at all. And, at first hated the Metro/Modern/Whatever UI. Then I read somewhere it was basically the Start Menu displayed differently. So I started looking, and then it wasn't that bad, although there is/was a bunch of crap I'm not interested in. I wonder if things would have worked out a bit different if MS had simply said that. :-) Hi Ken, xfile provided a link for the ~30% XP market share The below 40% market penetration was last Dec 2012. The 43 % the prior quarter. Google or Bing should yield a variety of hits for XP Market share when searching in the Dec 2012 and Sept 2012 timeframe. My point was that a double digit drop is significant and XP (as end-of-life for product and security approaches in April 2014) will continue to see further declines. Correct, the 8x UI has a lot of unnecessary 'apps' that most will never use many of which provide a Metro UI type representation (modern UI IE mode) of the same articles found on MSFT's media (MSN) site (News, Sports, Weather, Maps, yada...) - even with all the extras, its just a simple select, rt click to unpin the item from the Modern UI Start Screen. Also of note, even the Modern UI Start Screen (which scrolls horizontally) the installed Desktop apps can be automatically positioned to appear first (left side). Likewise, if desired, one can configure it for Modern UI apps to appear first. If one chooses to have a mixture then 8.1 provides more grouping and options for rearrangement on the modern UI than 8.0. My personal approach is to configure the Modern UI with those applications (desktop) and the few apps (Modern UI) that I use most frequently in one group, a second group with application/apps that I use but not as often as the first group, and a third and final group with Windows and application software utilities. I supplement the Desktop mode by using both the Quick Launch toolbar and the Windows Taskbar (the latter because it allows me to pin items to an application and/or use Jump Lists). With that approach, no matter where I am I'm just a small step away of doing anything I've previously done for years on Windows 7. What has also worked out better for me, is Win8 and Win7 networking (sharing, printing, wifi) and sharing (music, photos) is much more effective than Win7-XP or even Win7-Win7 ever was. 8.x may take some time to achieve the same comfort level but imo it is not as 'evil' and disconnected as many make or percieve it to be. I think the experience will be visibly better, if a user is using two monitors for Win8. The Start screen then doesn't take over the entire desktop. If I was at work, and some IT guy said I had to use Windows 8, that's what I'd be asking for - another monitor. And at $100 for a cheap monitor, that's not too much to ask for. That's how much my 17 inch "backup" monitor cost me. There's just not enough room on my current desk for two monitors. Too many computers get in the way :-) (One of several ways of arranging things...) http://www.maximumpc.com/files/u1392...nitors-big.jpg ******* And Windows 8 *is* evil, until they fix Task Manager. The current Task Manager can "lose control" of the OS, and become unresponsive. That means, if you need to kill some process that is causing the computer some grief, Task Manager may not be available to help you. It starts alright, but it won't respond to input. Neither keyboard nor mouse. This is bad architecting. And almost as frustrating as me sitting in front of a Sun box and losing XWindows in the middle of the day. It's not a very good OS, when you have to use the power button on the machine to regain control. The Metro stuff could remain a distraction, if it wasn't for that. An OS is first and foremost a compute engine - if it can't compute, all that GUI goodness is for nothing. And that means Task Manager has to work, and Task Manager has to work when the OS is under pressure (memory pressure, 100% CPU, no pool left! whatever). If resources were reserved for Task Manager, if Task Manager has a higher priority than regular applications, it just might remain in control. This means Task Manager cannot be an ordinary process - it might not even be develop-able using a regular tool flow. All it takes, is one failed test case here, to **** me off. I've seen that test case. And I know Microsoft will *not* fix this. Maybe if we're lucky, they'll fix it in the next OS, whatever that is. Paul |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
On 12/3/13 6:34 PM, xfile wrote:
Would you and xfile put some dates on those percentage numbers? Without a timeframe, the percentages become meaningless. Mine was based on memory of reading a very recent report which is around 28%-29%,but I don't have it with me. But it's easy to find other numbers, such as reported by Netmarketshare, which has a even higher percentage: 31.22% (http://netmarketshare.com/operating-...0&qpcustomd=0). Thanks, xfile. For pure curiosity reasons, it would be interesting to know how 8.x sales compare to 7 sales at this point in time from 7's introduction. What catches my eye is the percentage of Mavericks users over Mountain Lion for OS X. With the little I know of Mavericks, I haven't seen anything there that attracts me, other than the price of $0 to upgrade. Most of the features on Apple's sites, the last time I looked, related to integration with iOS devices. And I own none of them. The only things I've seen for desktop use that might interest me is tags and the tabbed finder, both of which I can do now in Mountain Lion with 3rd party software I've installed. My guess would be that my fellow Mac users are really wanting tighter integration across all the products they own. IDC also released a press release for general public titled: IDC Forecasts PC Shipments to Fall by Double Digits In 2013; Volumes Are Expected To Stabilize Above 300 Million Units per Year, But With No Significant Recovery (http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS24466513) Excerpt: "The commercial market is faring notably better than the consumer market in 2013 with shipments declining by -5% year over year compared to nearly -15% for consumer." "The relative stability is due to a mix of more stable PC investment planning, a smaller impact from tablets, and to replacements of Windows XP systems before the end of support planned for 2014." "However, the long-term outlook for the two markets is not significantly different, with a small decline projected for both consumer and commercial segments in 2014 with near flat growth in the longer term." Edit: Replacement of XP from business will help but "the long-term outlook for the two markets is not significantly different, [...]". Excerpt: "Perhaps the chief concern for future PC demand is a lack of reasons to replace an older system," said Jay Chou, Senior Research Analyst, Worldwide Quarterly PC Trackers at IDC." This is a question I've had since XP. Outside of security fixes and such, what's the attraction for the newer OSes for me? Basically, none. Personally, if I were still using Windows as my primary OS, the only feature that's come along since XP that appeals to me and my use is Libraries, and only used in a manner other than what MS describes. And, if I had a tree view in OS X, I could duplicate that library use in Mountain Lion. Edit: This is what is called "diminishing return" that I mentioned, which means that there is little or no benefits for additional investments including for replacements, and it has been like this for some time. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 24.0 Thunderbird 17.0.8 |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
On 12/3/13 8:18 PM, ...winston wrote:
Ken Springer wrote, On 12/3/2013 7:04 PM: Would you and xfile put some dates on those percentage numbers? Without a timeframe, the percentages become meaningless. I've not played with 8.x hardly at all. And, at first hated the Metro/Modern/Whatever UI. Then I read somewhere it was basically the Start Menu displayed differently. So I started looking, and then it wasn't that bad, although there is/was a bunch of crap I'm not interested in. I wonder if things would have worked out a bit different if MS had simply said that. :-) Hi Ken, xfile provided a link for the ~30% XP market share The below 40% market penetration was last Dec 2012. The 43 % the prior quarter. Google or Bing should yield a variety of hits for XP Market share when searching in the Dec 2012 and Sept 2012 timeframe. My point was that a double digit drop is significant and XP (as end-of-life for product and security approaches in April 2014) will continue to see further declines. Hi, Winston, I saw xfile's reply, thanks. But, the double digit drop is only significant if that fall continues. The only way to know that is to watch over time. Correct, the 8x UI has a lot of unnecessary 'apps' that most will never use many of which provide a Metro UI type representation (modern UI IE mode) of the same articles found on MSFT's media (MSN) site (News, Sports, Weather, Maps, yada...) - even with all the extras, its just a simple select, rt click to unpin the item from the Modern UI Start Screen. Also of note, even the Modern UI Start Screen (which scrolls horizontally) the installed Desktop apps can be automatically positioned to appear first (left side). Likewise, if desired, one can configure it for Modern UI apps to appear first. If one chooses to have a mixture then 8.1 provides more grouping and options for rearrangement on the modern UI than 8.0. I am of the thought MS's biggest gaffe was in not providing some type of paper instructions/education of the radical change to the opening screen. Or, at the minimum, put the Desktop tile at the upper left, and identified with much larger and contrasting text so those for whom a touchscreen interface idea was totally foreign could get to something familiar, even if it looks like a 30 year old GUI interface. My personal approach is to configure the Modern UI with those applications (desktop) and the few apps (Modern UI) that I use most frequently in one group, a second group with application/apps that I use but not as often as the first group, and a third and final group with Windows and application software utilities. I supplement the Desktop mode by using both the Quick Launch toolbar and the Windows Taskbar (the latter because it allows me to pin items to an application and/or use Jump Lists). With that approach, no matter where I am I'm just a small step away of doing anything I've previously done for years on Windows 7. I am intrigued by the ModernMix menu replacement for 8, and plan on eventually installing it on my real Win8 install. But I need to buy a 2nd copy of 8, as the one copy I have now is in a VM. What has also worked out better for me, is Win8 and Win7 networking (sharing, printing, wifi) and sharing (music, photos) is much more effective than Win7-XP or even Win7-Win7 ever was. Interestingly enough, I'm no tech by a long shot, but I've never had a problem with networking any of these systems. The only problem I had was getting things to talk to OS X. And I accidentally stumbled on to a solution, when all the Google searches and forum posts were of no help. I may have an issue if there were more than one user for any/all of these systems, but I'm the only user, so no problem. 8.x may take some time to achieve the same comfort level but imo it is not as 'evil' and disconnected as many make or percieve it to be. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 24.0 Thunderbird 17.0.8 |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message
... Per Wolf Kirchmeir: With such a machine plus a simple (== cheap) smart phone you'd have everything you need: a client as thin or thick as you like, and connectivity to anything and everything. Those things have been calling out to me too - as a replacement for my 10.1" Android tablet. I feel the same way. I'm getting ready to move from my android tablet to a Windows 8 tablet. If money as no object, I would choose a surface Pro and then allow my laptop to collect dust (I domost of my computing on my desktop). If I decide against spending that amount of money, I am leaning towards the Asus T100 tablet - it runs Windows 8, not Windows 8 RT. IT only has 2GB of RAM though and that concerns me a bit. Two issues so far: - Battery life. I have no clue as to how competitive the Surface devices are with my Samsung tablet battery-life-wise. - On/Off. The Android device has two "Off" states. Hit the power button once, and the screen just goes blank. Hit and hold, and you get an option for total shutdown. Coming back from the blank screen is almost instantaneous: hit the button, swipe the screen, and you're good to go. And my device will go over 12 hours in the "Screen Off" state with only about 1 percent loss of battery - although that's after rooting it and cleaning out some stuff that I don't want running 24-7. I can't fund such an option on the Surface devices. Maybe it's there and I'm not seeing it... but so far it looks like the only options are shutdown, sleep, and hibernate - all of which take vastly too long for convenient intermittent use. -- Pete Cresswell --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
Per PAS:
it runs Windows 8, not Windows 8 RT. RT would be a deal breaker for me too. My understanding is that it only runs apps that have been built specifically for RT. -- Pete Cresswell --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message
... Per PAS: it runs Windows 8, not Windows 8 RT. RT would be a deal breaker for me too. My understanding is that it only runs apps that have been built specifically for RT. Yes, RT only runs software designed for it and RT also does not have a desktop. The Asus T100 runs a full version of Windows 8.1 so I can install some of my desktop apps on it if I want. It also comes with MS Office Home/Student edition and an attachable keyboard. It's a good value. -- Pete Cresswell --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | Rate This Thread |
|
|