Win 8 Tutorial

On 12/16/2013 09:11, Meanie wrote:
My mother, who is in her 70s and still going strong, will be receiving a
new computer from me for Christmas because her current desktop is almost
as old as her.

I am somewhat familiar with Win 8 but I use the basics on my laptop.
Therefore, that's all I'll be able to show her when we set up her
system. Can anyone suggest a good tutorial she can visit to learn the
full scope of Win 8?

Thanks

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If your mother is using a computer primarily for what is called "media
consumption" or light work, you may consider giving her a tablet (of any
OS) instead of a desktop or notebook?

My mother-in-law is also in 70s and over the past 10 years or so, we
have given her at least three notebooks in different form factors,
regular, ultra, and even a netbook but she just *hates* computers.

About a month ago, my wife and sister-in-law decided to give her an
iPad, and guess what, she is sending emails to my wife now.

It doesn't have to be an iPad which is not my point, and I think that
tablets in general are more user friendly and doesn't carry the old
image of computers.

PS: I can't stop my head spinning when I read the word "Tutorial" for a
supposedly consumer friendly device. It's 2013 approaching to 2014.

On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 20:11:02 -0500, Meanie
wrote:

My mother, who is in her 70s and still going strong, will be receiving a
new computer from me for Christmas because her current desktop is almost
as old as her is.

I am somewhat familiar with Win 8 but I use the basics on my laptop.
Therefore, that's all I'll be able to show her when we set up her
system. Can anyone suggest a good tutorial she can visit to learn the
full scope of Win 8?

Thanks

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I bought a copy of the book, Microsoft Windows 8 Simplified, by Paul
McFedries, ISBN 978-1-118-13527-3, and have gotten a lot of guidance
from it. It is easy to follow and shows the windows layouts that
pertain to each question or explanation. Gordon

Kirk Bubul wrote:
On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 18:16:22 -0700, Ken1943
wrote:
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I am the same age. Install Start8 so she has a point to start from, that
she would be familiar with. She can use the new interface from the menu.

If she's used to Windows before 8, then Start8 and a few minor
tweaks will allow her to live on the Desktop rather than the
Start screen. I have Start8 on my Windows 8.1 machine and I love
it.

I recommend both an add-on, to give back the menus
a user might not have expected to go missing. As well
as a tutorial. The tutorial should at least handle
"how do I get out of this stinking tile" :-)

A user can get stuck in a tile, when the tile is
bound as the "handler" for a data type. And then,
the user will be in a situation of not having
access to their PDF tutorial, to figure out
"what thing to do to get out". Panic ensues.
And for old people, they hate hair loss :-)

Windows 8 will cause less grief, if you have
enough LCD real-estate. I'm convinced a regular
user would be much happier, using a desktop
with two LCD screens. As the behavior of
Windows 8 is a bit different that way. So
if I absolutely had to "throw a relative
into the deep end", I'd want two screens.
I'd be less likely to get that "tech
support phone call".

One screen contains your "life line", like
packing an extra coil of rope when rock climbing :-)

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.45401...50522&pid=15.1

A second example.

http://www.maximumpc.com/files/u1392...nitors-big.jpg

If you buy a Business PC with Windows 8 Pro or 8.1 Pro,
that would come with "Downgrade Rights" to Windows 7.
Which is another way to solve the problem.

Paul

On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 18:16:22 -0700, Ken1943 wrote:

I am the same age. Install Start8 so she has a point to start from, that
she would be familiar with. She can use the new interface from the menu.

I'd suggest Classic Shell, it's free! (Although I read positive comments
on Start8 as well.)

http://www.classicshell.net/downloads/

--
s|b

In article , says...

My mother, who is in her 70s and still going strong, will be receiving a
new computer from me for Christmas because her current desktop is almost
as old as her.

I am somewhat familiar with Win 8 but I use the basics on my laptop.
Therefore, that's all I'll be able to show her when we set up her
system. Can anyone suggest a good tutorial she can visit to learn the
full scope of Win 8?

Thanks

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

The video courses from Lynda.com are excellent. There are several
beginner-level courses for Windows 8 (and now one for W8.1). This might
be a good place to start:

http://www.lynda.com/Windows-tutoria...s-8-Essential-
Training/84572-2.html

(rejoin the url without spaces)

Subscription is $25 a month, on a month-by-month basis (or annual if you
want a saving).

--

Phil, London

On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 22:03:15 +0100, "s|b" wrote:

On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 18:16:22 -0700, Ken1943 wrote:

I am the same age. Install Start8 so she has a point to start from, that
she would be familiar with. She can use the new interface from the menu.

I'd suggest Classic Shell, it's free! (Although I read positive comments
on Start8 as well.)


I've said this here before, but I'll repeat it. Yes, Classic Shell is
good. But Start8, which costs the very small amount of $4.99 more than
Classic Shell, is even better, and for such a small amount of money,
is worth it.

On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 16:57:46 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:

On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 22:03:15 +0100, "s|b" wrote:

On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 18:16:22 -0700, Ken1943 wrote:

I am the same age. Install Start8 so she has a point to start from, that
she would be familiar with. She can use the new interface from the menu.

I'd suggest Classic Shell, it's free! (Although I read positive comments
on Start8 as well.)


I've said this here before, but I'll repeat it. Yes, Classic Shell is
good. But Start8, which costs the very small amount of $4.99 more than
Classic Shell, is even better, and for such a small amount of money,
is worth it.

Translation: YOU like Start8 better.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:37:19 -0500, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

I've said this here before, but I'll repeat it. Yes, Classic Shell is
good. But Start8, which costs the very small amount of $4.99 more than
Classic Shell, is even better, and for such a small amount of money,
is worth it.

Since the days when there were various "shells" that ran on top of DOS
(including Windows), I've found them to be reliable alternatives to the
original OS *only* if one is doing fairly low-intensity tasks. The more
demanding apps, such as professional-level graphics, engineering, database
development, machine control and so forth required fairly strict adherence
to the underlying OS' operational parameters or they'd crash, sometimes
disasterously. Has this changed with Win 8.x, or are these shells truly
"transparent" to the OS?




I don't have enough experience with "professional-level graphics,
engineering, database development, machine control and so forth
required fairly strict adherence to the underlying OS' operational
parameters," so I can't answer you for sure. But I'm not aware of any
such problems with Classic Shell, Start8 or any of the other such
programs. Also, I don't think any of these would really be classified
as a "shell" in the sense in which you mean it. They do very little
besides putting back the Start Orb, and the Start Menu.

Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

I've said this here before, but I'll repeat it. Yes, Classic Shell is
good. But Start8, which costs the very small amount of $4.99 more than
Classic Shell, is even better, and for such a small amount of money,
is worth it.

Since the days when there were various "shells" that ran on top of DOS
(including Windows), I've found them to be reliable alternatives to the
original OS *only* if one is doing fairly low-intensity tasks. The more
demanding apps, such as professional-level graphics, engineering, database
development, machine control and so forth required fairly strict adherence
to the underlying OS' operational parameters or they'd crash, sometimes
disasterously. Has this changed with Win 8.x, or are these shells truly
"transparent" to the OS?
--
best regards,

Neil
a firm believer in TANSTAAFL

Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:37:19 -0500, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

I've said this here before, but I'll repeat it. Yes, Classic Shell
is good. But Start8, which costs the very small amount of $4.99
more than Classic Shell, is even better, and for such a small
amount of money, is worth it.

Since the days when there were various "shells" that ran on top of
DOS (including Windows), I've found them to be reliable alternatives
to the original OS *only* if one is doing fairly low-intensity
tasks. The more demanding apps, such as professional-level graphics,
engineering, database development, machine control and so forth
required fairly strict adherence to the underlying OS' operational
parameters or they'd crash, sometimes disasterously. Has this
changed with Win 8.x, or are these shells truly "transparent" to the
OS?




I don't have enough experience with "professional-level graphics,
engineering, database development, machine control and so forth
required fairly strict adherence to the underlying OS' operational
parameters," so I can't answer you for sure. But I'm not aware of any
such problems with Classic Shell, Start8 or any of the other such
programs. Also, I don't think any of these would really be classified
as a "shell" in the sense in which you mean it. They do very little
besides putting back the Start Orb, and the Start Menu.

How does one "put back" a feature that the native OS lacks without adding
code that runs on top of the OS?
--
best regards,

Neil

Neil Gould wrote:
Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 15:37:19 -0500, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
I've said this here before, but I'll repeat it. Yes, Classic Shell
is good. But Start8, which costs the very small amount of $4.99
more than Classic Shell, is even better, and for such a small
amount of money, is worth it.

Since the days when there were various "shells" that ran on top of
DOS (including Windows), I've found them to be reliable alternatives
to the original OS *only* if one is doing fairly low-intensity
tasks. The more demanding apps, such as professional-level graphics,
engineering, database development, machine control and so forth
required fairly strict adherence to the underlying OS' operational
parameters or they'd crash, sometimes disasterously. Has this
changed with Win 8.x, or are these shells truly "transparent" to the
OS?



I don't have enough experience with "professional-level graphics,
engineering, database development, machine control and so forth
required fairly strict adherence to the underlying OS' operational
parameters," so I can't answer you for sure. But I'm not aware of any
such problems with Classic Shell, Start8 or any of the other such
programs. Also, I don't think any of these would really be classified
as a "shell" in the sense in which you mean it. They do very little
besides putting back the Start Orb, and the Start Menu.

How does one "put back" a feature that the native OS lacks without adding
code that runs on top of the OS?

http://forums.mydigitallife.info/pri...8&pp=40&page=2

"How is it possible for Windows 8 to have real start menu?
Microsoft said they did remove it!

They did, but not completely. Removing start menu completely would
require rearchitecting some key Windows code base and raising
compatibility issues which they couldn't seemingly afford.

StartIsBack reuses large portion of start menu code left, but
contains a large amount of code to make as well it work as you
expect and new functions too."

To really get into a good heated argument about it, you'd need
to see a developer doc that explains exactly how it was done.

I can at least say, they're not modifying kernel files, because
those are signed and won't run if modified :-)

In a general sense, these are modifications to a Window Manager.
And the above quoted paragraph, suggests they're using hooks
still present in the Window Manager.

If they weren't doing it that way, think of all the AV programs
they would have to "battle", to make their stuff work... All
those AVs that search for heuristic behavior. Like when
Kaspersky would prevent Sysinternals programs from running
on my computer :-( If you're doing any kind of real intrusion
on a system, sooner or later, there will be reports of an AV
being triggered by the "code". How ever it is being done,
it would seem to be pretty benign.

Paul

Paul wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:
(much snipped for brevity)
How does one "put back" a feature that the native OS lacks without
adding code that runs on top of the OS?

[...] StartBack

StartIsBack reuses large portion of start menu code left, but
contains a large amount of code to make as well it work as you
expect and new functions too."

IOW, one doesn't! ;-)

To really get into a good heated argument about it, you'd need
to see a developer doc that explains exactly how it was done.

I'm not really trying to argue the point, but it seems pretty clear to me
that whether or not there may be "unexpected consequences" when using these
shells remains to be seen. Win8.x is still relatively new, and at least my
client base of users with more demanding apps has not made the transition.
I've recommended 8.1 to a few with apps that have moderate to low system
demands, as well as training to become familiar with the "new ways" of
working. After all, a Start Orb is not the most significant change they'll
have to deal with.
--
best regards,

Neil

On Thu, 19 Dec 2013 12:44:59 -0500, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

Paul wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:
(much snipped for brevity)
How does one "put back" a feature that the native OS lacks without
adding code that runs on top of the OS?

[...] StartBack

StartIsBack reuses large portion of start menu code left, but
contains a large amount of code to make as well it work as you
expect and new functions too."

IOW, one doesn't! ;-)

To really get into a good heated argument about it, you'd need
to see a developer doc that explains exactly how it was done.

I'm not really trying to argue the point, but it seems pretty clear to me
that whether or not there may be "unexpected consequences" when using these
shells remains to be seen.


There can be "unexpected consequences" of running *any* code, whether
the code "puts back" features, acts as an independent utility, or is
an application program. And regardless of for how long the code has
been running, there is always the chance that those "unexpected
consequences" just haven't shown up yet.

However, the risk of "unexpected consequences" is much lower with some
kinds of code than with others, and with all kinds of code, the risk
decreases as time goes on. So, yes, although there is still *some*
risk with Classic Shell, Start8, StartIsBack, etc., as far as I'm
concerned, the risk is clearly very small. I don't worry about it, and
I don't recommend that anyone else does either.

On 12/19/2013, Ken Blake, MVP posted:
There can be "unexpected consequences" of running *any* code, whether
the code "puts back" features, acts as an independent utility, or is
an application program.

I also have to add "or is the OS itself".

Just sayin'.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

Thank you all for your suggestions. I absorbed (wrote) all the info and
will use what deems fit based on how well she picks up on my basic show
and tell when we set up her machine.

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