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#61
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Believe it or not but PC is coming back...
On 12/14/2014 12:56 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 06:53:51 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote: What is "cable" and how does it differ from a "landline"? Cable, in this context, refers to a service provider who historically delivered television programming over a cable system, rather than over the air. Toward the end of the last century, most cable TV providers upgraded their cable plants in order to be able to offer Internet access over the same physical cables as they'd been delivering TV up to that point. Soon after, the cable providers offered phone service over those cables, as well. Landline, on the other hand, typically refers to wired telephone service provided by a traditional telephone company, some of whom are now offering television programming and of course Internet access over their lines. Here in the States, most Internet access is via "cable", or in other words via the local cable company. DSL via a phone company runs a distant second. In other parts of the world, DSL is the dominant provider. The nice thing about cable here in the States is that it tends to be much faster than DSL, albeit at a somewhat higher cost. Does this "cable" somehow not exist on land, is it that oxymoron, a "wireless cable"? It's coaxial, and it may be strung on poles or buried in the ground. In my understanding, you either have "landline" or "wireless". If it has a wire, it must go across the land. The third option, which may not be available where you live, is "cable". If you live somewhere where you're required to buy POTS service in order to get DSL, well shame on your phone company, but the other thing is that VoIP phone service may not make sense in that case since you already have phone service, unless you just want free long distance or free 'in network' calling around the world. We travelled in our RV last winter to Florida; we stayed in park where there was no cable service. We had to settle for "dry" DSL which wasn't so dry because we had to take a phone. That little experience ended up costing 60.00 a month, but it was better and faster,more secure and less costly than the mobile hotspot we had. The best part was the fact that Verizon apparently "sold" our new phone number to local businesses. I must have gotten 10 calls a day congratulating us on the purchase of our new home. And, even though we were customers of Verizon in another state, we had to suffer through a credit check with someone who barely had command of the English language. We got home and cancelled our Verizon service and chose Ooma and couldn't be happier. I think the subject of this thread got lost along time ago, so I don't feel bad about asking. Has anyone here ever bought a PC from Digital Storm? D. |
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#62
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Believe it or not but PC is coming back...
On Sat, 13 Dec 2014 23:56:30 -0600, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 06:53:51 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote: What is "cable" and how does it differ from a "landline"? Cable, in this context, refers to a service provider who historically delivered television programming over a cable system, rather than over the air. Toward the end of the last century, most cable TV providers upgraded their cable plants in order to be able to offer Internet access over the same physical cables as they'd been delivering TV up to that point. Soon after, the cable providers offered phone service over those cables, as well. Landline, on the other hand, typically refers to wired telephone service provided by a traditional telephone company, some of whom are now offering television programming and of course Internet access over their lines. Here in the States, most Internet access is via "cable", or in other words via the local cable company. DSL via a phone company runs a distant second. In other parts of the world, DSL is the dominant provider. The nice thing about cable here in the States is that it tends to be much faster than DSL, albeit at a somewhat higher cost. Does this "cable" somehow not exist on land, is it that oxymoron, a "wireless cable"? It's coaxial, and it may be strung on poles or buried in the ground. So for you "landline" refers only to the PSTN, and not other forms of land line (as opposed to wireless)? In my understanding, you either have "landline" or "wireless". If it has a wire, it must go across the land. The third option, which may not be available where you live, is "cable". Indeed it is not available here, but I would think of it as a "landline" as well. If you live somewhere where you're required to buy POTS service in order to get DSL, well shame on your phone company, but the other thing is that VoIP phone service may not make sense in that case since you already have phone service, unless you just want free long distance or free 'in network' calling around the world. Skype seems to work OK for VoIP, no special adapters needed. -- Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
#63
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Believe it or not but PC is coming back...
In message , Steve Hayes
writes: On Sat, 13 Dec 2014 23:56:30 -0600, Char Jackson wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 06:53:51 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote: What is "cable" and how does it differ from a "landline"? In the structure of the cable; cable, at least traditionally, was/is coaxial, whereas "landline" is twisted pair. Yes, I know, it could be argued that the twisted pair is also a cable; however, in this context, the term cable tends to be used to refer to the ... Cable, in this context, refers to a service provider who historically delivered television programming over a cable system, rather than over the .... TV, and thus coaxial, only. The question "have you got cable" usually referred to TV provision via that method. [] Landline, on the other hand, typically refers to wired telephone service provided by a traditional telephone company, some of whom are now offering television programming and of course Internet access over their lines. Is the actual term "landline" fairly recent in becoming common, in the USA and/or Canada? I'd say it wasn't in common use in the UK until recently, where it has in the last few years come to be used when talking about telephone service, to distinguish it from what we call mobile 'phone service (more commonly called "cellular" in leftpondia, I think). Here in the States, most Internet access is via "cable", or in other words via the local cable company. DSL via a phone company runs a distant second. In other parts of the world, DSL is the dominant provider. In the UK, that's certainly the case, especially in even moderately rural areas: "cable TV" had a much lower degree of penetration here. (We tend to call DSL ADSL, or at least in the trade we do; the general public just call it "broadband".) The degree of TV distribution by special cables _is_ still increasing, though still quite slowly; nowadays, of course, it _is_ usually combined with an internet option. With the growth of TV over IP, the distinction between TV-via-cable and TV-via-internet is disappearing, of course. The nice thing about cable here in the States is that it tends to be much faster than DSL, albeit at a somewhat higher cost. Does this "cable" somehow not exist on land, is it that oxymoron, a "wireless cable"? It's coaxial, and it may be strung on poles or buried in the ground. So for you "landline" refers only to the PSTN, and not other forms of land line (as opposed to wireless)? I think you're in quite a small minority in using the term "land line" (with the space) at all; and yes, whether you like it or not, words change (FWIW I don't like it either, but fighting it is pretty pointless), and "landline" is indeed usually used to refer only to twisted-pair PSTN lines. In my understanding, you either have "landline" or "wireless". If it has a wire, it must go across the land. Yes, but if it's not twisted pair, it's not usually referred to as "landline". So in _my_ understanding, you have landline (PSTN), cable (originally coax, now including fibre), wireless, or satellite. Yes, the cable is a line running over (or under) land, and the PSTN could be referred to as a cable, but in this particular context, the terms mean what they do, not what their roots say they do. The third option, which may not be available where you live, is "cable". Indeed it is not available here, but I would think of it as a "landline" as well. I think you might find few others think that way. If you live somewhere where you're required to buy POTS service in order to get DSL, well shame on your phone company, but the other thing is that VoIP Well, sort of, though you would expect them to maintain the line, wouldn't you? OK, it could be argued - and IMO it _should_ be that way - that the maintenance component (what "line rental", a common term in the UK, really should mean, but doesn't) should be displayed and charged separately from the POTS aspect; presumably, however, the POTS provision is a sufficiently small extra part that it would cost more in admin. to list and charge for it separately than could be saved. phone service may not make sense in that case since you already have phone service, unless you just want free long distance or free 'in network' calling around the world. Skype seems to work OK for VoIP, no special adapters needed. The computer - or smartphone - on which you are running Skype is the adapter in this case. You can't just connect a plain 'phone (handset plus dial) to a line and Skype through it. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf The reason for the oil shortage: nobody remembered to check the oil levels. Our oil is located in the North Sea but our dip-sticks are located in Westminster. (or Texas and Washington etc. - adjust as necessary!) |
#64
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Believe it or not but PC is coming back...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 14:45:53 +0200, Steve Hayes
wrote: It's coaxial, and it may be strung on poles or buried in the ground. So for you "landline" refers only to the PSTN, and not other forms of land line (as opposed to wireless)? That's the traditional definition, yes. -- Char Jackson |
#65
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Cable, landline, wireless and satellite
On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 12:47:18 -0500, Wolf K wrote:
On 2014-12-14 8:29 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: [...] Yes, but if it's not twisted pair, it's not usually referred to as "landline". So in _my_ understanding, you have landline (PSTN), cable (originally coax, now including fibre), wireless, or satellite. Yes, the cable is a line running over (or under) land, and the PSTN could be referred to as a cable, but in this particular context, the terms mean what they do, not what their roots say they do. [...] Usage here in Ontario, AFAIK in the RoC also: Cable: coaxial, originally used to deliver analog TV signals, now used to deliver digital signals, usually a combination of TV and internet, with phone also available. Cable was originally set up by individuals and small companies to serve communities in fringe areas, with the receiving antenna somewhere high, and the cable distributing its signal to the subscribers. When cable companies consolidated, they used a combination of cable and microwave to link the network into a single system. Landline (or land line): twisted pair, originally for analog telephone, now for digital signals. Voice and internet carried at a different frequencies, filter required at every phone plug. Voice has been digital in Canada for at least 40 years. Good local distribution of broadband signals, up to about 1.5km from a "node". I suppose this discussion now belongs in alt.usage.english, rather than here. I've now realised that some people have been using "landline" to mean something different from I mean by it, so having cleared up that confusion it becomes a matter of English usage rather than one of communications technology. In my English "landline" means signals carried overland by electrical wires, or cables, or optical fibre cables that are on the ground, under the ground, or carried above the ground on poles. As opposed to "wireless", which to me also means "cableless". To me "cable" means a multistrand wire, or miltistand optical fibres, whether coaxial, or used to support the weight of a cable car. There used to be a firm called "Cable and wireless", and the "Cable" in their name referred to messages sent via the PSTN. In my youth "cable" was quite often used as a synonym for "telegram", again sent over the PSTN, especially if it was longer than a single page, as in a press report. So I would be interested in knowing how widespread is the idea that "landline" excludes "cable", because to me "cable" is included in the more general term "landline", and the opposite of "landline" is not "cable", but "wireless" (and "wireless" includes "satellite"). Glass fibre, glass, fibre, Fibe (TM): Glass fibre cable for digital signals. Carries everything. Satellite: for digital signals, even in the analog TV age, carrying TV. Internet and phone service also available. Most people refer only to TV services with this term, e.g., see Netflix as different from "regular" TV only for choice and price. Microwave: originally used to replace buried or pole-hung wires/cables in sparsely settled areas (Canada is big ;-)), thus reducing maintenance work. Carry phone and TV. I believe they were digital from the beginning. Cell: microwave spectrum used for cellular (mobile) phones. GPS: digital satellite signals used by GPS (Satnav) devices. FWIW, in mid-northern Ontario you will see groups of towers festooned with a dozen or more antennas each. AFAICT, most people think more in terms of the devices than the means used to deliver the signals. Footnote: The first cable operators used splitters and amplifiers to share their own antenna's signals with neighbours, then all or parts of small communities. The TV networks of course were livid at this "theft" of their signals, and tried to horn in. Eventually, litigation and legislation regularised the cable business. Then the telecoms bought up the cable operators, with the result we have now: a de facto monopoly of the three major telecoms, who offer basic services at "international" rates, and charge for every add-on to the point where most households pay $100 to $200 per month for their combination TV, Internet, and cell and/or landline phones. Eg, the landline bill includes a "network access fee" and a "touch tone fee". Really. In the last 10-15 years, the telecoms have bought content providers and producers, as well as sport teams and such, so that we have the most thoroughly integrated information/entertainment system in the world. Have a good day, -- Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
#66
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Cable, landline, wireless and satellite
Steve Hayes wrote:
I would be interested in knowing how widespread is the idea that "landline" excludes "cable" When talking about voice service, I wouldn't distinguish, especially as Virgin Media (tend to?) use a "shotgun" cable so the voice circuit is delivered over twisted pair from the street cabinet. But when talking about Internet access I'd distinguish broadband over coaxial cable (DOCSIS) and broadband over twisted pair cable (ADSL/VDSL). All from a UK perspective. |
#67
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Cable, landline, wireless and satellite
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 09:04:54 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote: Steve Hayes wrote: I would be interested in knowing how widespread is the idea that "landline" excludes "cable" When talking about voice service, I wouldn't distinguish, especially as Virgin Media (tend to?) use a "shotgun" cable so the voice circuit is delivered over twisted pair from the street cabinet. But when talking about Internet access I'd distinguish broadband over coaxial cable (DOCSIS) and broadband over twisted pair cable (ADSL/VDSL). So would I, but I'd refer to both as a "landline". But the only use I normally hear for "landline" is as opposed to "cell phone" (BrE=mobile). People say things like "I'll call you on my landline -- it's cheaper". -- Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
#68
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Cable, landline, wireless and satellite
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 08:54:47 +0200, Steve Hayes
wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 12:47:18 -0500, Wolf K wrote: On 2014-12-14 8:29 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: [...] Yes, but if it's not twisted pair, it's not usually referred to as "landline". So in _my_ understanding, you have landline (PSTN), cable (originally coax, now including fibre), wireless, or satellite. Yes, the cable is a line running over (or under) land, and the PSTN could be referred to as a cable, but in this particular context, the terms mean what they do, not what their roots say they do. [...] Usage here in Ontario, AFAIK in the RoC also: Cable: coaxial, originally used to deliver analog TV signals, now used to deliver digital signals, usually a combination of TV and internet, with phone also available. Cable was originally set up by individuals and small companies to serve communities in fringe areas, with the receiving antenna somewhere high, and the cable distributing its signal to the subscribers. When cable companies consolidated, they used a combination of cable and microwave to link the network into a single system. Landline (or land line): twisted pair, originally for analog telephone, now for digital signals. Voice and internet carried at a different frequencies, filter required at every phone plug. Voice has been digital in Canada for at least 40 years. Good local distribution of broadband signals, up to about 1.5km from a "node". I suppose this discussion now belongs in alt.usage.english, rather than here. I've now realised that some people have been using "landline" to mean something different from I mean by it, so having cleared up that confusion it becomes a matter of English usage rather than one of communications technology. In my English "landline" means signals carried overland by electrical wires, or cables, or optical fibre cables that are on the ground, under the ground, or carried above the ground on poles. As opposed to "wireless", which to me also means "cableless". To me "cable" means a multistrand wire, or miltistand optical fibres, whether coaxial, or used to support the weight of a cable car. There used to be a firm called "Cable and wireless", and the "Cable" in their name referred to messages sent via the PSTN. In my youth "cable" was quite often used as a synonym for "telegram", again sent over the PSTN, especially if it was longer than a single page, as in a press report. I think that "cable" for a message was an abbreviation of "cablegram". The OED says: cablegram, n. A message sent by submarine telegraph cable. Your use of PSTN is anachronistic! The Public Switched Telephone Network came into existence long after (electric) telegraph systems. So I would be interested in knowing how widespread is the idea that "landline" excludes "cable", because to me "cable" is included in the more general term "landline", and the opposite of "landline" is not "cable", but "wireless" (and "wireless" includes "satellite"). A lot depends on context. In the UK, on TV talent shows in which viewers vote by phone it is usual to give two sets of numbers to call. Typical wording: "If calling from a landline dial "nnn nn nn nn" plus the number of the contestant. If calling from a mobile dial "nnnnn" plus the number of the contestant." In that context "landline" means any fixed, non-mobile, phone. It could be a connection supplied by a phone company or it could be a phone service that uses the cable provided by a cable TV provider. Glass fibre, glass, fibre, Fibe (TM): Glass fibre cable for digital signals. Carries everything. Satellite: for digital signals, even in the analog TV age, carrying TV. Internet and phone service also available. Most people refer only to TV services with this term, e.g., see Netflix as different from "regular" TV only for choice and price. Microwave: originally used to replace buried or pole-hung wires/cables in sparsely settled areas (Canada is big ;-)), thus reducing maintenance work. Carry phone and TV. I believe they were digital from the beginning. Cell: microwave spectrum used for cellular (mobile) phones. GPS: digital satellite signals used by GPS (Satnav) devices. FWIW, in mid-northern Ontario you will see groups of towers festooned with a dozen or more antennas each. AFAICT, most people think more in terms of the devices than the means used to deliver the signals. Footnote: The first cable operators used splitters and amplifiers to share their own antenna's signals with neighbours, then all or parts of small communities. The TV networks of course were livid at this "theft" of their signals, and tried to horn in. Eventually, litigation and legislation regularised the cable business. Then the telecoms bought up the cable operators, with the result we have now: a de facto monopoly of the three major telecoms, who offer basic services at "international" rates, and charge for every add-on to the point where most households pay $100 to $200 per month for their combination TV, Internet, and cell and/or landline phones. Eg, the landline bill includes a "network access fee" and a "touch tone fee". Really. In the last 10-15 years, the telecoms have bought content providers and producers, as well as sport teams and such, so that we have the most thoroughly integrated information/entertainment system in the world. Have a good day, -- Peter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) |
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Cable, landline, wireless and satellite
On 15/12/14 17:54, Steve Hayes wrote:
I've now realised that some people have been using "landline" to mean something different from I mean by it, so having cleared up that confusion it becomes a matter of English usage rather than one of communications technology. In my English "landline" means signals carried overland by electrical wires, or cables, or optical fibre cables that are on the ground, under the ground, or carried above the ground on poles. As opposed to "wireless", which to me also means "cableless". To me "cable" means a multistrand wire, or miltistand optical fibres, whether coaxial, or used to support the weight of a cable car. I almost agree with you, but not quite. I use "landline" to include the entire PSTN. (Which means, approximately, that part of the telephone system that does not include mobile (cell) phones.) Now (in my country, but probably also in yours) that PSTN has a variety of intercity links, including microwave links. The difference is that these are highly directional station-to-station links, as distinct from "wireless" which usually implies omnidirectional broadcasting. For international connections, the PSTN uses undersea cables in some cases, and satellite links in others. The latter are radio links, but conventionally we do not describe them as "wireless" because they are part of the PSTN. Informally, we consider them to be part of the landline network, even if they don't travel over land. There used to be a firm called "Cable and wireless", and the "Cable" in their name referred to messages sent via the PSTN. In my youth "cable" was quite often used as a synonym for "telegram", again sent over the PSTN, especially if it was longer than a single page, as in a press report. Agreed, but I think that's obsolete terminology. So I would be interested in knowing how widespread is the idea that "landline" excludes "cable", because to me "cable" is included in the more general term "landline", and the opposite of "landline" is not "cable", but "wireless" (and "wireless" includes "satellite"). In Australia "a cable" is the twisted pair or the coaxial cable or whatever that forms a wired link, and it's used that way by electrical engineers. In the context of television, however, "cable" has a much more specialised use. "Cable TV" is synonymous with "Pay TV", a set of TV stations that you don't get unless you have a paid subscription. This is in contrast with "Free-to-air TV", which is accessible to anyone who has a TV set. "Cable TV" is also called "Fox TV", because a single company has a monopoly. -- Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org |
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Cable, landline, wireless and satellite
Wolf K wrote:
On 2014-12-15 1:54 AM, Steve Hayes wrote: On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 12:47:18 -0500, Wolf wrote: On 2014-12-14 8:29 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: [...] Yes, but if it's not twisted pair, it's not usually referred to as "landline". So in_my_ understanding, you have landline (PSTN), cable (originally coax, now including fibre), wireless, or satellite. Yes, the cable is a line running over (or under) land, and the PSTN could be referred to as a cable, but in this particular context, the terms mean what they do, not what their roots say they do. [...] Usage here in Ontario, AFAIK in the RoC also: Cable: coaxial, originally used to deliver analog TV signals, now used to deliver digital signals, usually a combination of TV and internet, with phone also available. Cable was originally set up by individuals and small companies to serve communities in fringe areas, with the receiving antenna somewhere high, and the cable distributing its signal to the subscribers. When cable companies consolidated, they used a combination of cable and microwave to link the network into a single system. Landline (or land line): twisted pair, originally for analog telephone, now for digital signals. Voice and internet carried at a different frequencies, filter required at every phone plug. Voice has been digital in Canada for at least 40 years. Good local distribution of broadband signals, up to about 1.5km from a "node". I suppose this discussion now belongs in alt.usage.english, rather than here. [etc] Well, it's certainly a usage issue, another example of how English develops differently in different parts of the world. Curious how technical terms vary so much. There's a thesis topic for a linguistics grad student there. ;-) Nice example: A few years ago, my cousin was surprised to hear that in N. America we used "cell" or "cell phone" for what they called a "Handy". Lord know who invented "Handy", likely an advertising slave trying to give some cachet to the new technology. German advertising and news media are riddled with (often misused) English words. "Cell, cell phone" are already obsolescent. It's now just ..... a phone. ;-) Have a good day, We have walkie-talkie and handie-talkie. The latter being a WWII handheld radio. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkie-talkie That'll give you some idea where the Handy came from. Paul |
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Cable, landline, wireless and satellite
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#72
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Cable, landline, wireless and satellite
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 22:34:51 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:
On 15/12/14 17:54, Steve Hayes wrote: I've now realised that some people have been using "landline" to mean something different from I mean by it, so having cleared up that confusion it becomes a matter of English usage rather than one of communications technology. In my English "landline" means signals carried overland by electrical wires, or cables, or optical fibre cables that are on the ground, under the ground, or carried above the ground on poles. As opposed to "wireless", which to me also means "cableless". To me "cable" means a multistrand wire, or miltistand optical fibres, whether coaxial, or used to support the weight of a cable car. I almost agree with you, but not quite. I use "landline" to include the entire PSTN. (Which means, approximately, that part of the telephone system that does not include mobile (cell) phones.) Now (in my country, but probably also in yours) that PSTN has a variety of intercity links, including microwave links. The difference is that these are highly directional station-to-station links, as distinct from "wireless" which usually implies omnidirectional broadcasting. For international connections, the PSTN uses undersea cables in some cases, and satellite links in others. The latter are radio links, but conventionally we do not describe them as "wireless" because they are part of the PSTN. Informally, we consider them to be part of the landline network, even if they don't travel over land. Agreed, but when I talk of "my landline", I'm referring to a phone that is connected by wire to the exchange, whether that wire be twisted pair or co-ax. How the exchange connects to other exchanges, whether by copper wire, optic fibre, microwave, or satellite, doesn't matter very much. It's a landline if it has a wire attached to it (or to a base if it's wireless within the house). If it's not a landline, it's a mobile/cell/satellite phone. There used to be a firm called "Cable and wireless", and the "Cable" in their name referred to messages sent via the PSTN. In my youth "cable" was quite often used as a synonym for "telegram", again sent over the PSTN, especially if it was longer than a single page, as in a press report. Agreed, but I think that's obsolete terminology. So I would be interested in knowing how widespread is the idea that "landline" excludes "cable", because to me "cable" is included in the more general term "landline", and the opposite of "landline" is not "cable", but "wireless" (and "wireless" includes "satellite"). In Australia "a cable" is the twisted pair or the coaxial cable or whatever that forms a wired link, and it's used that way by electrical engineers. In the context of television, however, "cable" has a much more specialised use. "Cable TV" is synonymous with "Pay TV", a set of TV stations that you don't get unless you have a paid subscription. This is in contrast with "Free-to-air TV", which is accessible to anyone who has a TV set. "Cable TV" is also called "Fox TV", because a single company has a monopoly. Well we have Pay-TV, but there are no cables, except between the satellite dish and the decoder, and between the decoder and the receiver. -- Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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Cable, landline, wireless and satellite
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 11:49:20 -0400, pjp
wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 12:47:18 -0500, Wolf K wrote: On 2014-12-14 8:29 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: [...] Yes, but if it's not twisted pair, it's not usually referred to as "landline". So in _my_ understanding, you have landline (PSTN), cable (originally coax, now including fibre), wireless, or satellite. Yes, the cable is a line running over (or under) land, and the PSTN could be referred to as a cable, but in this particular context, the terms mean what they do, not what their roots say they do. [...] Usage here in Ontario, AFAIK in the RoC also: Cable: coaxial, originally used to deliver analog TV signals, now used to deliver digital signals, usually a combination of TV and internet, with phone also available. Cable was originally set up by individuals and small companies to serve communities in fringe areas, with the receiving antenna somewhere high, and the cable distributing its signal to the subscribers. When cable companies consolidated, they used a combination of cable and microwave to link the network into a single system. Landline (or land line): twisted pair, originally for analog telephone, now for digital signals. Voice and internet carried at a different frequencies, filter required at every phone plug. Voice has been digital in Canada for at least 40 years. Good local distribution of broadband signals, up to about 1.5km from a "node". I suppose this discussion now belongs in alt.usage.english, rather than here. I've now realised that some people have been using "landline" to mean something different from I mean by it, so having cleared up that confusion it becomes a matter of English usage rather than one of communications technology. In my English "landline" means signals carried overland by electrical wires, or cables, or optical fibre cables that are on the ground, under the ground, or carried above the ground on poles. As opposed to "wireless", which to me also means "cableless". To me "cable" means a multistrand wire, or miltistand optical fibres, whether coaxial, or used to support the weight of a cable car. There used to be a firm called "Cable and wireless", and the "Cable" in their name referred to messages sent via the PSTN. In my youth "cable" was quite often used as a synonym for "telegram", again sent over the PSTN, especially if it was longer than a single page, as in a press report. So I would be interested in knowing how widespread is the idea that "landline" excludes "cable", because to me "cable" is included in the more general term Physical line into house, you're on a landline. Attenna used instead, you're wireless. Real simple. And where are you? TGhat's certtainly my usage, and I think Australian, but there are some places where it is apparently used differently. -- Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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Cable, landline, wireless and satellite
In article ,
Steve Hayes wrote: [snip discussion in another group] I suppose this discussion now belongs in alt.usage.english, rather than here. "Here" is aue. [This could be a discussion of the terms needed if we get time travel.] I've now realised that some people have been using "landline" to mean something different from I mean by it, so having cleared up that confusion it becomes a matter of English usage rather than one of communications technology. In my English "landline" means signals carried overland by electrical wires, or cables, or optical fibre cables that are on the ground, under the ground, or carried above the ground on poles. As opposed to "wireless", which to me also means "cableless". Landline for me omits "cable" which is coaxial cable (single carrier surrounded by a "shield" of braided wires). It refers to the telephone twisted pairs brought into the house by the telephone company. However, reading your discussion I now see that this is outdated probably and can be used for any wire/cable that isn't part of a wireless (OTA, supported by distribution by antennas) network. To me "cable" means a multistrand wire, or miltistand optical fibres, whether coaxial, or used to support the weight of a cable car. Me too, but context is necessary for the cable car. There used to be a firm called "Cable and wireless", and the "Cable" in their name referred to messages sent via the PSTN. In my youth "cable" was quite often used as a synonym for "telegram", again sent over the PSTN, especially if it was longer than a single page, as in a press report. PSTN? cable as telegram is ok with me, but I think of a cable as something slightly different, possibly associated with ships(?). So I would be interested in knowing how widespread is the idea that "landline" excludes "cable", because to me "cable" is included in the more general term "landline", and the opposite of "landline" is not "cable", but "wireless" (and "wireless" includes "satellite"). I exclude it, but see that technology is moving on, and the cable I thought of as only a supplier of television shows can now deliver other information. Since it is tethered to the ground, it can be a landline as well. Wireless also includes satellite, thought the method of transmission is "invisible" to my use of the word. -- charles Glass fibre, glass, fibre, Fibe (TM): Glass fibre cable for digital signals. Carries everything. Satellite: for digital signals, even in the analog TV age, carrying TV. Internet and phone service also available. Most people refer only to TV services with this term, e.g., see Netflix as different from "regular" TV only for choice and price. Microwave: originally used to replace buried or pole-hung wires/cables in sparsely settled areas (Canada is big ;-)), thus reducing maintenance work. Carry phone and TV. I believe they were digital from the beginning. Cell: microwave spectrum used for cellular (mobile) phones. GPS: digital satellite signals used by GPS (Satnav) devices. FWIW, in mid-northern Ontario you will see groups of towers festooned with a dozen or more antennas each. AFAICT, most people think more in terms of the devices than the means used to deliver the signals. Footnote: The first cable operators used splitters and amplifiers to share their own antenna's signals with neighbours, then all or parts of small communities. The TV networks of course were livid at this "theft" of their signals, and tried to horn in. Eventually, litigation and legislation regularised the cable business. Then the telecoms bought up the cable operators, with the result we have now: a de facto monopoly of the three major telecoms, who offer basic services at "international" rates, and charge for every add-on to the point where most households pay $100 to $200 per month for their combination TV, Internet, and cell and/or landline phones. Eg, the landline bill includes a "network access fee" and a "touch tone fee". Really. In the last 10-15 years, the telecoms have bought content providers and producers, as well as sport teams and such, so that we have the most thoroughly integrated information/entertainment system in the world. Have a good day, |
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Cable, landline, wireless and satellite
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 17:55:30 UTC, Charles Bishop
wrote: In article , Steve Hayes wrote: [snip discussion in another group] I suppose this discussion now belongs in alt.usage.english, rather than here. "Here" is aue. [This could be a discussion of the terms needed if we get time travel.] I've now realised that some people have been using "landline" to mean something different from I mean by it, so having cleared up that confusion it becomes a matter of English usage rather than one of communications technology. In my English "landline" means signals carried overland by electrical wires, or cables, or optical fibre cables that are on the ground, under the ground, or carried above the ground on poles. As opposed to "wireless", which to me also means "cableless". Landline for me omits "cable" which is coaxial cable (single carrier surrounded by a "shield" of braided wires). It refers to the telephone twisted pairs brought into the house by the telephone company. However, reading your discussion I now see that this is outdated probably and can be used for any wire/cable that isn't part of a wireless (OTA, supported by distribution by antennas) network. To me "cable" means a multistrand wire, or miltistand optical fibres, whether coaxial, or used to support the weight of a cable car. Me too, but context is necessary for the cable car. There used to be a firm called "Cable and wireless", and the "Cable" in their name referred to messages sent via the PSTN. In my youth "cable" was quite often used as a synonym for "telegram", again sent over the PSTN, especially if it was longer than a single page, as in a press report. PSTN? cable as telegram is ok with me, but I think of a cable as something slightly different, possibly associated with ships(?). So I would be interested in knowing how widespread is the idea that "landline" excludes "cable", because to me "cable" is included in the more general term "landline", and the opposite of "landline" is not "cable", but "wireless" (and "wireless" includes "satellite"). I exclude it, but see that technology is moving on, and the cable I thought of as only a supplier of television shows can now deliver other information. Since it is tethered to the ground, it can be a landline as well. Wireless also includes satellite, thought the method of transmission is "invisible" to my use of the word. We have Verizon FiOS, which brings TV, Internet, and telephone on a fiber to an interface box on the side of the house. On our side of that interface box we have three lines: coax, ethernet, and POTS. That last connects to five handsets, one of which is a rotary dial and three are 5 GHz cordless. I count all five as landlines. Well, they are only one line, but you know what I mean. -- John Varela |
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