Is there a way to set Num Locks so that they are always on?

On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 02:07:12 +0100, Mandy Liefbowitz
wrote:

Even "Prt Screen" isn't used very much.
Does anyone use those *often*? Often enough to justify them being on
separate keys?

I use prtsc often, it's VERY handy.

One thing I use it for is capturing screens from FlightRadar24,
so I can send the screen capture to some aviation friends and
see if they know what's happening at times.

prtsc, paste into Paint, then save and send.

On 09/19/2015 06:07 PM, Mandy Liefbowitz wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 12:23:22 -0700, T wrote:

On 09/19/2015 10:56 AM, Mike Easter wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
Linea Recta
"T"

Got a customer who constantly, accidentally turn off her
num lock, they get upset by the resulting chaos.

Chaos?

Is there a way I can lock it to always on?

Couldn't you teach her how to turn numlock back on?

That was my thinking.

You're missing his point: she turns it off accidentally, so doesn't
realise she has done so and continues typing; this can be very
confusing, as your cursor can be on a line or even page other than where
you thought it was, and you don't know what (or where!) you have
typed/changed since you hit it. Knowing how to turn it back on doesn't
tell you what you've done since.

What? Aren't we talking about the working or non-working of the keypad
number keys?

Or are we talking about some kind of keypadless keyboard which has
overlap of the keypad and regular keyboard?

I think we need a better explanation of why it wouldn't be appropriate
for a user to understand the toggling of the numlock.

It seems to me that the accidental toggling of the insert key is more
confusing than losing the numlock.



Hi Mike,

I think you are not use to working with zero computer skill operators.
You have to make it as simple and stupid as possible. This one
particular employee is absolutely amazing with the customers and
knows the products like the back of her hand. She even get hugs from
customers. The only downside is her inability to pick up computer
skills. It is in EVERYONE's economic self interest to work with her.

-T

My base system is Linux. Cap Locks DRIVE ME CRAZY. I run
/home/linuxutil/DisableCaplock

Caps-Lock is not for computers it is for *typewriters* and
teleprinters and there it has its uses.
It's a legacy key.
It's only real function in this Century is to allow us to filter out
Usenet cranks. Anyone who has Caps-Lock on can immediately be
dismissed without reading more than two words.
I am actually slightly surprised keys like CL, SysReq, Break Pause
and NumLock still exist on *computer* keyboards. Even "Prt Screen"
isn't used very much.
Does anyone use those *often*? Often enough to justify them being on
separate keys?

One customer has CAP LOCKS on all the time. He uses it to enter parts
into his point of sale program, where everything (reason unknown) is
in CAPS.



#!/bin/bash
setxkbmap -layout "$(setxkbmap -print | awk -F + '/xkb_symbols/ {print
$2}')" -option ctrl:nocaps

Cool. That's a keeper. Thank you, sir.


When ever I start up/log on.

It's in your login profile?

My Xfce "Session and Startup"


When I start up my Virtual Machines, the stupid hypervisor turns
them back on.

Of *course* it does. Because you ever so *obviously* *want* Caps Lock
active. The OS knows better than you do.
Just ask Microsoft.

Actually the code I gave you makes the system ignore
the cap locks key, so you can press away as clumsy
as you like. Well, until you start a VM



Drives me only a little nuts but I instantly know
what happened.

Through long, frustrating experience?

There are words floating in the stratosphere ...

Is there no way to auto-load your little script into *all* VM start
ups?
Or are some of them Windows? Your script might not work very well in
Windows.
M.

That Num Lock utility that folks recommended seems to be ideal.
You can freeze the Cap Locks too.

In message , Mandy
Liefbowitz writes:
[]
Caps-Lock is not for computers it is for *typewriters* and
teleprinters and there it has its uses.

I disagree; I do occasionally use it (and I haven't used a typewriter,
let alone a teleprinter, for anything serious for some decades). I
usually emphasise _thus_, but SOMETIMES I want to type in capitals -
often when quoting things, granted. (OK, in the line above I did it by
holding down the shift key, but for longer runs of text, I do use Caps
Lock.)
It's a legacy key.

The whole layout is legacy ... (-:

It's only real function in this Century is to allow us to filter out
Usenet cranks. Anyone who has Caps-Lock on can immediately be
dismissed without reading more than two words.

I wouldn't have classed that as a "use" of the key. (Actually, I haven't
seen such cranks for a while, now you mention it, but maybe I don't
frequent the right - or wrong! - newsgroups.)

I am actually slightly surprised keys like CL, SysReq, Break Pause

I agree about SysReq and Pause/Break, which are really signalling keys -
a bit like the R key on (some) telephones; I'd also say the Insert
toggle is rarely used (by me, anyway).

and NumLock still exist on *computer* keyboards. Even "Prt Screen"
isn't used very much.

(See subsequent post.)

Does anyone use those *often*? Often enough to justify them being on
separate keys?

As for "Scroll lock", I don't think I've _ever_ used it for it's nominal
purpose! I remember some utility that gave it another function, which I
found useful for a while, but I've forgotten even what _that_ was.
Anyone here care to comment that they use it for its original use?
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

G B Shaw said: "Few people think more than two or three times a year; I have
made an international reputation for myself by thinking once or twice a week."
(quoted by "Dont Bother" [sic], 2015-8-24.)

In message , The New Other
Guy writes:
On Sun, 20 Sep 2015 02:07:12 +0100, Mandy Liefbowitz
wrote:

Even "Prt Screen" isn't used very much.
Does anyone use those *often*? Often enough to justify them being on
separate keys?

I use prtsc often, it's VERY handy.
[]
prtsc, paste into Paint, then save and send.

[]
Also Alt-PrtScr.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

G B Shaw said: "Few people think more than two or three times a year; I have
made an international reputation for myself by thinking once or twice a week."
(quoted by "Dont Bother" [sic], 2015-8-24.)

Mandy Liefbowitz wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 19:17:11 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Mike Easter writes:
What? Aren't we talking about the working or non-working of the keypad
number keys?
Yes. Try this: open a text file in any editor (such as you might be
using to post a followup to this post). Have your cursor in the middle
of the text somewhere, now type 1995 say, as if you were typing the
year. But, "accidentally" turn off num lock before you type the 1995.
You will find your cursor is miles from where it was, and there's
probably a spurious "5" somewhere unexpected too.
Okay, so, out of sheer intellectual curiosity, I tried this. My KB
has a separate numbers keypad so I wasn't sure what would happen.
With NL off: the "1" key goes to the end of the line of text. As I
was at the beginning of the new-text insert line this didn't actually
do anything. The cursor was already at the end of that line. Then the
"9" key zapped my cursor half-way up this message. Then the "8" key
moved it up another line. Then the "5" key did absolutely nothing.No
matter how often I pressed it it was a null key.
With NL *on*: I get "1985" without the quote marks. As one would
expect. This actually surprised me. I didn't know it but I have had
NumLock *ON* for *decades* on dozens of keyboards and many, many
machines.

One learns new things every day.

I haven't read this whole thread, so I'm wondering if someone told you
that the 7 key would take you to the top of your page, as the 1 key
takes you to the bottom? That's how I usually find out that I have
mistakenly unlocked my num keys, when I use the shift key and try to
move to the top or bottom of a page.
bj

T wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:
J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Linea Recta
"T"

Got a customer who constantly, accidentally turn off her
num lock, they get upset by the resulting chaos.

Chaos?

Is there a way I can lock it to always on?

Couldn't you teach her how to turn numlock back on?

That was my thinking.

You're missing his point: she turns it off accidentally, so
doesn't realise she has done so and continues typing; this can be
very confusing, as your cursor can be on a line or even page
other than where you thought it was, and you don't know what (or
where!) you have typed/changed since you hit it. Knowing how to
turn it back on doesn't tell you what you've done since.

I don't buy this explanation. Let us say that 'typists' (not even
computer operators) come in 3 fundamental varieties: pure touch who are
looking at the screen (almost) all the time, not the keyboard; pure hunt
and peck who are looking at the keyboard most of the time, glancing at
the screen periodically; and blended h&p/ers who are looking up and down
from keyboard to screen and back regularly.

We know that the numlock keypad has other functions for most of its keys
when they aren't in numlock, home, up arrow, pgup, L arrow, R arrow,
end, down arrow, pgdn, ins, del.

Now we are being asked to believe that this person is NOT a touch typist
and she is not even a blended h&p/er, but instead she not only
accidentally turns the numlock off, but she NEVER periodically looks at
her screen while she is diligently keying in what she believes are
numbers from a numlocked keypad while instead she is accidentally keying
those wild functions I have listed above and she doesn't even know it.

That is an unbelievable scenario to me.

I think we need a better explanation of why it wouldn't be
appropriate for a user to understand the toggling of the numlock.

It seems to me that the accidental toggling of the insert key is
more confusing than losing the numlock.

I think you are not use to working with zero computer skill
operators. You have to make it as simple and stupid as possible. This
one particular employee is absolutely amazing with the customers and
knows the products like the back of her hand. She even get hugs from
customers. The only downside is her inability to pick up computer
skills. It is in EVERYONE's economic self interest to work with her.

To me, this isn't a computer skill issue per se. I think this
'disconnect' between this employee's 'problem' and the
manager/supervisor/IT's role in fixing a problem is related to the fixer
not understanding correctly/comprehensively what is ACTUALLY going wrong
for the employee, beyond the numlock toggle event.

The idea that the numlock needs to be locked on shows a lack of
understanding of what is happening next when/if her numlock key gets
toggled.

--
Mike Easter

On 09/20/2015 08:59 AM, Mandy Liefbowitz wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 18:00:59 -0700, T wrote:

On 09/19/2015 05:54 PM, Mandy Liefbowitz wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 12:06:39 -0700, T wrote:

On 09/19/2015 12:15 AM, Rodney Pont wrote:
On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 23:49:30 -0700, T wrote:

I am not beyond a keyboard that does the same thing. hardware
or software, I don't care.

Thank you for helping me with this,

Remove the keycap and put something under it to stop it being pressed.


:-)

Remove "Num-Lock" toggle keycap. Pour loads of superglue into the
keycap. Replace keycap carefully while holding keyboard upside down so
as to not spill juice. Wait until juice is fairly dry. Hand keyboard
back to the klutz.
As an "atom-bombing mosquitoes" level of fix it also works with those
buffoons who like the caps-lock key.
M.


Super glue a thumb tack on it?

She has long-ish fingernails and hit the num lock at the
same time she hits the 7, or so I presume

Fingernail cutters?
M.


About as much of a chance of getting her to stop wearing
perfume.

On 09/20/2015 12:12 PM, chicagofan wrote:
Mandy Liefbowitz wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 19:17:11 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Mike Easter writes:
What? Aren't we talking about the working or non-working of the keypad
number keys?
Yes. Try this: open a text file in any editor (such as you might be
using to post a followup to this post). Have your cursor in the middle
of the text somewhere, now type 1995 say, as if you were typing the
year. But, "accidentally" turn off num lock before you type the 1995.
You will find your cursor is miles from where it was, and there's
probably a spurious "5" somewhere unexpected too.
Okay, so, out of sheer intellectual curiosity, I tried this. My KB
has a separate numbers keypad so I wasn't sure what would happen.
With NL off: the "1" key goes to the end of the line of text. As I
was at the beginning of the new-text insert line this didn't actually
do anything. The cursor was already at the end of that line. Then the
"9" key zapped my cursor half-way up this message. Then the "8" key
moved it up another line. Then the "5" key did absolutely nothing.No
matter how often I pressed it it was a null key.
With NL *on*: I get "1985" without the quote marks. As one would
expect. This actually surprised me. I didn't know it but I have had
NumLock *ON* for *decades* on dozens of keyboards and many, many
machines.
One learns new things every day.
I haven't read this whole thread, so I'm wondering if someone told you
that the 7 key would take you to the top of your page, as the 1 key
takes you to the bottom? That's how I usually find out that I have
mistakenly unlocked my num keys, when I use the shift key and try to
move to the top or bottom of a page.
bj



turn Num Locks on

press the "7" with a long finger nail such that you also
hit the num lock key again

keep pressing keys with no idea you just tuned num lock off

On 09/20/2015 02:33 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
As for "Scroll lock"

I use it. But not for what it is intended. I toggle it
back and forth to see if the LED flashes to determine
if the Keyboard is getting power.

Got two other keys for that, if need be.

On 09/20/2015 01:51 PM, Mike Easter wrote:
T wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:
J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Linea Recta
"T"

Got a customer who constantly, accidentally turn off her
num lock, they get upset by the resulting chaos.

Chaos?

Is there a way I can lock it to always on?

Couldn't you teach her how to turn numlock back on?

That was my thinking.

You're missing his point: she turns it off accidentally, so
doesn't realise she has done so and continues typing; this can be
very confusing, as your cursor can be on a line or even page
other than where you thought it was, and you don't know what (or
where!) you have typed/changed since you hit it. Knowing how to
turn it back on doesn't tell you what you've done since.

I don't buy this explanation. Let us say that 'typists' (not even
computer operators) come in 3 fundamental varieties: pure touch who are
looking at the screen (almost) all the time, not the keyboard; pure hunt
and peck who are looking at the keyboard most of the time, glancing at
the screen periodically; and blended h&p/ers who are looking up and down
from keyboard to screen and back regularly.

We know that the numlock keypad has other functions for most of its keys
when they aren't in numlock, home, up arrow, pgup, L arrow, R arrow,
end, down arrow, pgdn, ins, del.

Now we are being asked to believe that this person is NOT a touch typist
and she is not even a blended h&p/er, but instead she not only
accidentally turns the numlock off, but she NEVER periodically looks at
her screen while she is diligently keying in what she believes are
numbers from a numlocked keypad while instead she is accidentally keying
those wild functions I have listed above and she doesn't even know it.

That is an unbelievable scenario to me.

I think we need a better explanation of why it wouldn't be
appropriate for a user to understand the toggling of the numlock.

It seems to me that the accidental toggling of the insert key is
more confusing than losing the numlock.

I think you are not use to working with zero computer skill
operators. You have to make it as simple and stupid as possible. This
one particular employee is absolutely amazing with the customers and
knows the products like the back of her hand. She even get hugs from
customers. The only downside is her inability to pick up computer
skills. It is in EVERYONE's economic self interest to work with her.

To me, this isn't a computer skill issue per se. I think this
'disconnect' between this employee's 'problem' and the
manager/supervisor/IT's role in fixing a problem is related to the fixer
not understanding correctly/comprehensively what is ACTUALLY going wrong
for the employee, beyond the numlock toggle event.

The idea that the numlock needs to be locked on shows a lack of
understanding of what is happening next when/if her numlock key gets
toggled.


It takes all types to run the world. This employees only downfall
is here inability to pick up computer skills. She knows
the product line like the back of her hand and she is wonderful
with the customers. She is a huge asset to the company.

You missed one.

4) folks with no skill who are baffled by the process
and can not learn *any* new computer skills.

It takes a lot of patience to work with #4's. The trick
is that you have to not lose your cool. And be a bit
sympathetic.

T wrote:
On 09/20/2015 12:12 PM, chicagofan wrote:
Mandy Liefbowitz wrote:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 19:17:11 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Mike Easter writes:
What? Aren't we talking about the working or non-working of the
keypad
number keys?
Yes. Try this: open a text file in any editor (such as you might be
using to post a followup to this post). Have your cursor in the middle
of the text somewhere, now type 1995 say, as if you were typing the
year. But, "accidentally" turn off num lock before you type the 1995.
You will find your cursor is miles from where it was, and there's
probably a spurious "5" somewhere unexpected too.
Okay, so, out of sheer intellectual curiosity, I tried this. My KB
has a separate numbers keypad so I wasn't sure what would happen.
With NL off: the "1" key goes to the end of the line of text. As I
was at the beginning of the new-text insert line this didn't actually
do anything. The cursor was already at the end of that line. Then the
"9" key zapped my cursor half-way up this message. Then the "8" key
moved it up another line. Then the "5" key did absolutely nothing.No
matter how often I pressed it it was a null key.
With NL *on*: I get "1985" without the quote marks. As one would
expect. This actually surprised me. I didn't know it but I have had
NumLock *ON* for *decades* on dozens of keyboards and many, many
machines.
One learns new things every day.
I haven't read this whole thread, so I'm wondering if someone told you
that the 7 key would take you to the top of your page, as the 1 key
takes you to the bottom? That's how I usually find out that I have
mistakenly unlocked my num keys, when I use the shift key and try to
move to the top or bottom of a page.
bj



turn Num Locks on

press the "7" with a long finger nail such that you also
hit the num lock key again

keep pressing keys with no idea you just tuned num lock off

Sorry, I wasn't addressing the O/P problem ... and I do understand the
problem with hitting the num lock key in error, because I have a
different keyboard [for me] and the light grey ID is illegible. I don't
know if I hit it when I'm trying to hit the delete key or the backspace
key, but I hit it often enough for it to be annoying.
I'm having a hard time adjusting to the shift and differences in this
keyboard obviously.

I was just chiming in about Mandy saying she had just learned about the
9 and 8 keys, and wondered if she already knew about 7 and 1.
bj

On 09/20/2015 05:38 PM, Ken1943 wrote:
Glue the damn thing any way you like and get on with your lives.

Cured


Ken1943


On one of my old keyboards, I pried off the Cap Locks. If
you wanted Cap Locks you had to use your little finger
and dig for it. Now I just send the key map instructions not
to use it (Linux).

Part, but a small part, of the issue is how cheap keyboards
are now. Sometimes at customer sites I have to watch every
key I press (I know how to type). I love my Unicomp. It is
like the old IBM Selectric Typewriters. I am a good 50% faster
on it than on a crappy membrane keyboard.

On 09/21/2015 06:11 AM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 17:42:42 -0700, T wrote:

Hi All,

Got a customer who constantly, accidentally turn off her
num lock, they get upset by the resulting chaos.

Is there a way I can lock it to always on?

Many thanks,
-T

I have found how to turn it on at boot from the registry,
but that will not help in this situation.


Forgive me for not having read all messages in this thread. I was wondering if anyone suggested that you
either disable or remap the keys of your choice using the Sharpkeys utility?

https://sharpkeys.codeplex.com/

For example, if you don't want the Capslock key to do anything, remap it to F15 or something similar. The
same would apply for the numlock key, set the bios to automatically enable numlock and then disable or remap
the key.

This article explains the process in greater detail with a few illustrations.

http://www.howtogeek.com/194705/how-...rating-system/


Yes they did. They also recommended this really sweet,
easy to use utility called Num Locker that I think I will use:

http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/...umLocker.shtml

You can lock Cap Locks with it too.

In message , Mandy
Liefbowitz writes:
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 18:36:07 -0700, The New Other Guy
wrote:
[]
I use prtsc often, it's VERY handy.

Really?
Interesting. And thank you.


One thing I use it for is capturing screens from FlightRadar24,
[]
prtsc, paste into Paint, then save and send.

Oh. Okay. That seems like a good use for it. Thank you.
M.
[]
That _is_ it's use! (Well, in Windows. In DOS, at least in character
mode, it used to actually print the screen! [I think it still will in
some BIOSes, to a parallel port text-mode printer if one is connected -
{marginally} useful for getting BIOS screen dumps.]) Basically, it
copies a bitmap image of the screen to the clipboard. (Alt-PrtSc copies
a bitmap image of the current _window_ to the clipboard.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

G B Shaw said: "Few people think more than two or three times a year; I have
made an international reputation for myself by thinking once or twice a week."
(quoted by "Dont Bother" [sic], 2015-8-24.)

In message , Mandy
Liefbowitz writes:
[]
Have you ever tried to teach music to someone who just can *NOT*
learn how to read those funny lines and wiggles and E's and flatty
sharpy things?
Which is just about *everyone*.
Apart, obvious, from born musicians.

Not quite so. I am far from a born musician - when I got my grade III
piano by _exactly_ the pass mark, I saw the writing on the wall, i. e. I
realised I wouldn't get anywhere. (Not without a _lot_ of effort, anyway
- unlike my brother.) But I _do_ know how to interpret all those symbols
(well, except a few very esoteric ones): to me, it's just another
programming language. I just can't play for toffee!



The idea that the numlock needs to be locked on shows a lack of
understanding of what is happening next when/if her numlock key gets
toggled.


It takes all types to run the world. This employees only downfall
is here inability to pick up computer skills. She knows
the product line like the back of her hand and she is wonderful
with the customers. She is a huge asset to the company.

You missed one.

4) folks with no skill who are baffled by the process
and can not learn *any* new computer skills.

It takes a lot of patience to work with #4's. The trick
is that you have to not lose your cool. And be a bit
sympathetic.

I've met lots of folk like this. I have also met (*ME*) folk who just
can't do musical notation with any great skill, or with *any* skill.
It's not unusual for the master of a skill to look askance at some
dumb twit who just sits there with a vacant look and *utterly* refuses
to grasp even the simplest aspects of what the master finds so easy.

Indeed. Even with good intentions. I remember one lecturer when I was at
university who was quite willing to spend time giving extra classes for
those of us who found his subject difficult: the problem was, indeed,
that he didn't find it difficult, and he wasn't easily able to "come
down to our level", as it were. Or my brother teaching my mother
something technical: "I don't understand what you don't understand."
(Which sentence itself rather appealed to Mum, who was a languages
person; she often quoted it.)

Tech, and computers more so than most tech, is skill intensive. It
*IS* rocket science, so near as damnit and it *can* be difficult. Try

And the problem's become more difficult because developments - in both
hardware and software - make it _seem_ not to be.
[]
It wasn't for me. I loved maths and computers from Babbage's little
engines on to Super-Computers, but I can't play a note on any musical
instrument.

(I can pick out notes - at about a tenth or less of the nominal speed,
and with plenty of errors - on a keyboard; I've even learnt about half a
dozen chords, so I can play things like Victorian hymn tunes with a
passable effect. But, as I said, the picking out is just like
single-stepping through a piece of software, line by line; no way can I
play a tune on hearing it, like my brother can. Let alone transpose it
....)

When I see people struggling with the basic idea of typing into a
browser's address space instead of the *search* box I remember my lack
of skills in plumbing, plastering, music, mining, geology and a some
millions of languages and I sympathise.

Agreed! (Though I've bumbled through plumbing to a small extent.)

What we do isn't *easy*.
Even the easy stuff.
Mand.
Indeed; we forget that it once wasn't, even for us.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Where [other presenters] tackle the world with a box of watercolours, he
takes a spanner. - David Butcher (on Guy Martin), RT 2015/1/31-2/6