Recommendation for an xmas present PC for a college kid?

College kid needs a new computer as the old one was too big and busted
(dead battery, broken hinges, etc.)

Kid wants a smaller computer.
Kid doesn't do gaming.
Kid just needs the basics (MS Office).

Any idea of a cost-effective PC?

I asked the kid to go to the college bookstore to snap a picture of the
*size* she likes and she texted me a Dell Inspiron 11 3000 (which seems to
be 13.3 inches corner to corner).

Googling for the size specs on that computer, it's about an inch thick but
I can't tell the length and width dimensions from the Dell site:
http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/produ...11-3147-laptop

She doesn't need touch display nor any fancy monitor hinges (just the KISS
basics).

What inexpensive non-touch-screen non-fancy-hinges laptop would you
recommend for a non-gaming college student that is about the length and
width of that laptop?

"Hazuki Nakamura" wrote in message
news
Glued-in battery pack ? Removable battery pack ?

Holy moley. Glueed in batteries? No! No! no!
I have never not seen a removable battery in a laptop.
Are they making them like crappy iPhones now?

Well, Asus is. Maybe not all but my Asus F555L has a non-removeable
battery. It also has keyboad with grey on black keys, need lots of light to
tell what's what. I hate them.

It replaced a comparable Acer, the motherboard of which died after 3 years.
Cost to rerplace the mobo was only slightly less than a new computer. The
Acer had a removeble battery and white on black keys.

Hazuki Nakamura wrote:
College kid needs a new computer as the old one was too big and busted
(dead battery, broken hinges, etc.)

Kid wants a smaller computer.
Kid doesn't do gaming.
Kid just needs the basics (MS Office).

Any idea of a cost-effective PC?

I asked the kid to go to the college bookstore to snap a picture of the
*size* she likes and she texted me a Dell Inspiron 11 3000 (which seems to
be 13.3 inches corner to corner).

Googling for the size specs on that computer, it's about an inch thick but
I can't tell the length and width dimensions from the Dell site:
http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/produ...11-3147-laptop

She doesn't need touch display nor any fancy monitor hinges (just the KISS
basics).

What inexpensive non-touch-screen non-fancy-hinges laptop would you
recommend for a non-gaming college student that is about the length and
width of that laptop?

It's a 16:9 screen. You need to add some material for the bezel
to these dimensions. At least half an inch in each dimension
should be added. That makes the silhouette 12"x7" approx.

This is the math for the LCD panel area. Assumes square pixels.
Add the bezel estimate onto these numbers for the true outside dimension.

16 (1366)
13.3 ---------------------- 13.3 * 16/18.36 = Wide = 11.6 inch
\__ | 13.3 * 9/18.36 = Tall = 6.5 inch
\__ |
\__ | 9 (768)
\__ | Checking math...
18.36 \__ |
\__ | SQRT( 11.6^2 + 6.5^2 ) = 13.3 diag
\__|

The laptops have several storage options.

32GB eMMC (shoe-horned OS, practically no storage)
eMMC+microSD slot (user puts multimedia content on the optional microSD card and slot)
500GB hard drive (now the unit has a 2.5" hard drive bay,
can retrofit with 7mm 2.5 inch SSD drive if desired)

The more expensive Inspiron models in this case,
have a 500GB hard drive. The other specs don't really
help. Dual to quad core processor ? Who cares. Touch
screen ? Who cares. Hinges ? Well, don't take it apart.
And so on.

For throwaway junk like this, you really need user
reviews to understand how the thing will fail.
Glued-in battery pack ? Removable battery pack ?
Science has discovered the solution to broken
power jacks, and the answer is a separate PCB
for the power jack to make replacement easier.

TN panel ? IPS panel ?

The difference is, the TN looks terrible when
your head is off-axis. An IPS panel retains
image quality out to +/- 178 degree viewing angle.
There are many many variations on IPS, to dodge
patents, but they should all share the wide viewing
angle spec.

HTH,
Paul

Hazuki Nakamura said:

What inexpensive non-touch-screen non-fancy-hinges laptop would you
recommend for a non-gaming college student that is about the length and
width of that laptop?

I called Dell who told me that the reference computer was about 11.98
inches long by 7.88 inches wide, so, what I am looking for is a laptop that
is about a foot long by about 8 inches wide. (The reference laptop was 1/2
inch thick and 2.9 pounds but I don't think that matters in this case.)

The guy kept pushing the 2-in-1 touch screen PCs, but if I wanted either of
those features, I'd just buy the kid a tablet for heaven's sake. (I can't
imagine paying for a PC to pretend it's a tablet when it's not and those
things are just doomed to break anyway.)

Apparently Dell doesn't have *any* Windows computers that fit the
requirements of:
a. About a foot long by about 8 inches wide (e.g., 1366x768)
b. No expensive touch screen & no expensive hinges
c. An internal hard disc drive

They have, for $250, a Dell Inspiron 11 3000 Non-Touch (which is 11.5
inches by 7.72 inches by 0.73 inches by 2.6 pounds), but it has no internal
hard disc drive!

They have, for $500, a Dell Inspiron 13 5000 (which is the right width and
length) but it's a PC playing make-believe that it's a tablet (which is
never gonna work).

So Dell is out of the picture.

All I need to get her is:
a. An inexpensive windows laptop of about 1 foot by about 8 inches
b. No fancy hinges (because they break and they cost more money)
c. No fancy screen (HD 1366x768 is just fine) because more isn't needed
d. An internal hard drive slot (500GB is fine)
e. A decent cpu (dual-core CPU at 2.5GHz is fine)
f. Decent RAM (2GB to 4GB is fine)
g. Good WiFi (802.11 ac with both 2.4 and 5GHz is mandatory)

I'll put mS Office on separately if it doesn't come with it.

Any suggestions?

Wolf K said:

Just go to Best Buy or Staples, etc, and buy one in that size and price
range. They vary hardly at all these days. BTW, very few machines are
available without touch-screens these days.

Thanks for that advice.
I had a touch screen years ago, with the flip top (IBM Thinkpad).
It sucked.

The screen smudged like you can't believe and the touch screen and flip top
was useless.

I haven't used a recent one so I'm sure they improved, but who the heck
needs a touch screen on a laptop? If you want a tablet, you buy a tablet.
The main flaw in a tablet is the lack of a keyboard and mouse (or a touch
pad).

If you want a PC, you get a PC (the main advantage is a keyboard and a
mouse or a touch pad).

As I said, I have not tried out the new ones, but I'm an old guy who has
learned that a 2-in-1 car that tries to be a motorcycle is both a terrible
car and a terrible motorcycle at the same time.

Plus it costs more.

Again, I don't have the experience with the new laptops, but why pay more
for something that is worse?

Hazuki Nakamura wrote:
Hazuki Nakamura said:

What inexpensive non-touch-screen non-fancy-hinges laptop would you
recommend for a non-gaming college student that is about the length and
width of that laptop?

I called Dell who told me that the reference computer was about 11.98
inches long by 7.88 inches wide, so, what I am looking for is a laptop that
is about a foot long by about 8 inches wide. (The reference laptop was 1/2
inch thick and 2.9 pounds but I don't think that matters in this case.)

The guy kept pushing the 2-in-1 touch screen PCs, but if I wanted either of
those features, I'd just buy the kid a tablet for heaven's sake. (I can't
imagine paying for a PC to pretend it's a tablet when it's not and those
things are just doomed to break anyway.)

Apparently Dell doesn't have *any* Windows computers that fit the
requirements of:
a. About a foot long by about 8 inches wide (e.g., 1366x768)
b. No expensive touch screen & no expensive hinges
c. An internal hard disc drive

They have, for $250, a Dell Inspiron 11 3000 Non-Touch (which is 11.5
inches by 7.72 inches by 0.73 inches by 2.6 pounds), but it has no internal
hard disc drive!

They have, for $500, a Dell Inspiron 13 5000 (which is the right width and
length) but it's a PC playing make-believe that it's a tablet (which is
never gonna work).

So Dell is out of the picture.

All I need to get her is:
a. An inexpensive windows laptop of about 1 foot by about 8 inches
b. No fancy hinges (because they break and they cost more money)
c. No fancy screen (HD 1366x768 is just fine) because more isn't needed
d. An internal hard drive slot (500GB is fine)
e. A decent cpu (dual-core CPU at 2.5GHz is fine)
f. Decent RAM (2GB to 4GB is fine)
g. Good WiFi (802.11 ac with both 2.4 and 5GHz is mandatory)

I'll put mS Office on separately if it doesn't come with it.

Any suggestions?

By working the selector knobs on Newegg, it looks like a
14" unit might have a better selection. 13.3" doesn't
seem to "encourage" the hard drive option and bay.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834314797 $429

Windows 8.1 Pro
Intel Pentium 3556U processor Dual-core 1.70 GHz
14" HD (1366 x 768) 16:9
Intel HD Graphics with Shared Memory
4 GB, DDR3L SDRAM
500 GB HDD

The processor looks like a previous generation.
Almost looks like it lacks turbo.

http://ark.intel.com/products/76621/...70-GHz?q=3556U

Paul

Paul said:

This is the math for the LCD panel area.

Wow. Thanks for the math.
I subsequently called Dell and your math is spot on correct!
So what I'm looking for is a laptop about a foot long by about 8 inches
wide, give or take.

The college kid puts it in the backpack, so portability is key although
weight isn't an issue nor is thickness.

The laptops have several storage options.
Thanks for explaining eMMC which I had not heard of (I haven't bought a
computer in years).

I see no advantage to anything less than 500GB, and I don't care the type
of hard drive (cheap SATA is just fine).

Dual to quad core processor ? Who cares.

In the olden days, when we changed the caps to change the frequency of the
processor from 4MHz (yes, mega) to 5Mhz, the processor might have mattered,
but isn't it such that nowadays, for a non-gaming computer, that the
processors are all just fine?

I'm thinking "dual core" and about 2.5 GHz.
Isn't that just fine nowadays?
I don't even know what dual core buys us but they all seem to be dual core.

Touch screen ? Who cares.
I agree with you. If you want a tablet, you get a tablet.
If you want a laptop, you get a laptop.

A laptop pretending to be a table is neither a laptop nor a tablet.
It just sucks (IMHO), although I never tested out a new one.

I had a similar IBM thinkpad contraption years ago and it sucked though.
It didn't do either job well, which is the problem with almost all 2-in-1
contraptions.

Hinges ? Well, don't take it apart.

It's not that I don't want the hinges. There's just no need to pay extra
for fancy hinges when a laptop isn't a tablet and never will be (not with
Microsoft making the operating system, anyway).

Glued-in battery pack ? Removable battery pack ?

Holy moley. Glueed in batteries? No! No! no!
I have never not seen a removable battery in a laptop.
Are they making them like crappy iPhones now?

Science has discovered the solution to broken
power jacks, and the answer is a separate PCB
for the power jack to make replacement easier.

Yup. I have had a few of those broken power jacks in the IBM thinkpads!
They break when the laptop hits something in the back since they stick out
at the back.

TN panel ? IPS panel ?

I don't even know what they mean, but this college kid just needs "a
display", so, whatever is cheap and standard will work (HD 1366x768 would
be just fine).

The difference is, the TN looks terrible when
your head is off-axis. An IPS panel retains
image quality out to +/- 178 degree viewing angle.

I don't think, for this kid, that the display matters.

There are many many variations on IPS, to dodge
patents, but they should all share the wide viewing
angle spec.

What matters to this kid is basically the following:
a. Windows & MS Office
b. About 12inches by about 8 inches
c. 500GB hard drive (or whatever it comes with that is decently sized)
d. 802.11 ac 2.4 and 5GHz WiFi

That's pretty much it.
Any suggestions?

"Hazuki Nakamura" wrote

| What inexpensive non-touch-screen non-fancy-hinges laptop would you
| recommend for a non-gaming college student that is about the length and
| width of that laptop?

I'd agree with Wolf K. Just go to Staples or
Best Buy, if she doesn't mind Windows 10. If
you want Win7 you can get it from Dell, in
the "business" sales. They've been advertising
deals recently.

Does she really need a laptop? You get a lot
more for your money, with more flexibility, with
a desktop. You could get a very powerful machine
for about $400. No reason to spend more.

I wonder why so many students feel they need
a laptop. Maybe they're just restless and can't
stand doing homework in their dorm room. But sitting
on a sofa, or on a stool at Starbucks, using something
as non-ergonomic as a laptop, is not a good solution
for someone who actually needs to do work.

On Fri, 16 Dec 2016 16:38:54 +0000 (UTC), Hazuki Nakamura
wrote:

[snip]

All I need to get her is:
a. An inexpensive windows laptop of about 1 foot by about 8 inches
b. No fancy hinges (because they break and they cost more money)
c. No fancy screen (HD 1366x768 is just fine) because more isn't needed
d. An internal hard drive slot (500GB is fine)

Why do you need an internal hard drive? What about an SSD?

e. A decent cpu (dual-core CPU at 2.5GHz is fine)
f. Decent RAM (2GB to 4GB is fine)
g. Good WiFi (802.11 ac with both 2.4 and 5GHz is mandatory)

[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Paul said:

By working the selector knobs on Newegg, it looks like a
14" unit might have a better selection. 13.3" doesn't
seem to "encourage" the hard drive option and bay.

She currently has a Dell Inspiron 15 which she says is too big (and the
hinges broke anyway and the battery is dead and it didn't have 5GHz or
802.11ac but other than those things, it's fine).

This says that the old one is 14.8" by 10.2" by 1.4" by 5.22 pounds:
https://www.cnet.com/products/dell-i...-series/specs/

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834314797 $429

Windows 8.1 Pro
Intel Pentium 3556U processor Dual-core 1.70 GHz
14" HD (1366 x 768) 16:9
Intel HD Graphics with Shared Memory
4 GB, DDR3L SDRAM
500 GB HDD

The processor looks like a previous generation.
Almost looks like it lacks turbo.

Thanks for finding that. It is amazing that it doesn't say the size, and
googling for the length and width, I don't see it yet (isn't size the most
important feature of a laptop?).

I realize 14 inches "is" a length size, but it could be any width and
thickness if I don't do the trigonometric math.

http://ark.intel.com/products/76621/...70-GHz?q=3556U

Interesting CPU web page!

Gene Wirchenko said:

Why do you need an internal hard drive? What about an SSD?

SSD is fine as long as it's internal.
Who wants to carry around a USB drive everywhere they go?

Mayayana said:

I'd agree with Wolf K. Just go to Staples or
Best Buy, if she doesn't mind Windows 10.

She currently has a Dell Inspiron 15 which is Windows 10 and she's not
technical so I'd prefer to keep her at Windows 10 (even though it sucks).

She's using Office Student 10 so I'd keep her at that too.

Mainly the Dell is too big at 5.2 pounds, 14.8" by 10.2" by 1.2".
But the battery is dead and the hinges broke and it's not 802.11ac or 5GHz
too.

Other than that, it was fine for what she needed it for.

Does she really need a laptop?

Every college kid in the USA needs a laptop.

You get a lot
more for your money, with more flexibility, with
a desktop.

Yeah. I know. But college kids need laptops.

You could get a very powerful machine
for about $400. No reason to spend more.

There is another kid, a boy, who needs a desktop "gaming" computer, so any
recommendation on that would be fine too. He's a teen in high school and
his current gaming computer is too slow (aren't they all?).

I wonder why so many students feel they need
a laptop. Maybe they're just restless and can't
stand doing homework in their dorm room.

A college kid *must* have a laptop.
It's not even a question.

They don't need a 21-meal meal plan, nor do they need a car, but they need
a laptop.

But sitting
on a sofa, or on a stool at Starbucks, using something
as non-ergonomic as a laptop, is not a good solution
for someone who actually needs to do work.

All college kids do work in tons of places, the library being one, but
dorms, starbucks, classrooms, hallways, the quad, etc., being the others.

All college kids need a laptop and that's not negotiable in this case.

Boron Elgar said:

The laptops are taken to class for notes and downloads and tho phones
are primary these days, laptops that small size really come in handy.

Yes. We went to college before the days of computers, but even we had to
have a scientific TI calculator. It was required. A laptop is required
today, and that's just not negotiable.

Remember that college kids wander a lot to each others' rooms, from
class to class, out and about, etc. Having a accommodating size laptop
means school work can be done anywhere - alone or in groups for
projects.

Yes. College kids are transients!

Me? I do like a desktop for some things, but I also have various
laptops for different uses that I carry in my bag or have
strategically placed in rooms at my house.

In college, you have to have a laptop.
Nothing else works.

Yeah, I have a tablet or two, also.

Nothing wrong with tablets, but they're different beasts altogether.

In article
Hazuki Nakamura wrote:

College kid needs a new computer as the old one was too big and busted
(dead battery, broken hinges, etc.)

Kid wants a smaller computer.
Kid doesn't do gaming.
Kid just needs the basics (MS Office).

Any idea of a cost-effective PC?

I asked the kid to go to the college bookstore to snap a picture of the
*size* she likes and she texted me a Dell Inspiron 11 3000 (which seems to
be 13.3 inches corner to corner).

Googling for the size specs on that computer, it's about an inch thick but
I can't tell the length and width dimensions from the Dell site:
http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/produ...11-3147-laptop

She doesn't need touch display nor any fancy monitor hinges (just the KISS
basics).

What inexpensive non-touch-screen non-fancy-hinges laptop would you
recommend for a non-gaming college student that is about the length and
width of that laptop?

Look for a Chromebook... She can have basic MS Office capability
online (offline capability as well).

I'd consider ASUS or Samsung.

Nomen Nescio said:

Look for a Chromebook... She can have basic MS Office capability
online (offline capability as well).

I'm not ready for dysfunctional operating systems, just yet.
Maybe in the future.

But if she's gonna go Chromebook, she may as well just go iOS or Android if
all she needs is a dysfunctional operating system.

Windows, for better or worse, does a LOT more than does Chrome or Android
or iOS.