migrate office 365 trail to real office?

On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 08:49:11 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

Just a guess, but I suspect that his lack of professionalism here is
simply because he doesn't know enough to be truly professional.

These newsgroups long ago ceased to be the province of professional
IT people, if they ever were. So what - users are entitled to
express their views. If someone offers services to the public they
generally don't have to put up a certificate of membership of a
trade organisation to prove their competence (special exceptions
like doctors).

On 11/24/18 4:32 AM, mechanic wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 08:49:11 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

Just a guess, but I suspect that his lack of professionalism here is
simply because he doesn't know enough to be truly professional.

These newsgroups long ago ceased to be the province of professional
IT people, if they ever were. So what - users are entitled to
express their views. If someone offers services to the public they
generally don't have to put up a certificate of membership of a
trade organisation to prove their competence (special exceptions
like doctors).


I would have to disagree somewhat with you. Your correct that
newsgroups are crowded with posers and antisocials, not to mention
the occupational tech evangelist and fan boi. And lonely
people who think any attention is good attention.

This is why everyone is moving towards moderated forums. I
personally do not find forums very useful as I only look at
them when I need something, although I try to answer a question
or two to also contribute as much as I get.

Moderated mailing list linked to forums are my favorite and I
am on a number of them.

As for newsgroups ceasing to be good sources of information,
I do have to disagree with you. Have you ever had to post
over on M$'s forums? Some M$ employee gives you a long
winded blow off question that does not help you with your
problem. (Vanguard is long winded, but he actually answers
things.) Then they write you seeking compliments. (I got
mysteriously banned for two weeks after I honestly answered
what I thought of their service.)

I have had many a real stumper of a problem solved on these
newsgroups. If you disagree with me, just look at Paul's
and Vanguard's various answers. Both are very, very
knowledgeable and neither withholds information.

Newsgroups greatest advantage is that you can talk freely and
openly about a problem without fear of censorship. Sometimes
you have to call a spade a spade to accurately describe a
problem. (M$'s forums will censor you if you use certain
keywords. Chuckle. "M$" and "obnoxious" are not censored.)
Sometimes you have to get straight to the point.

And newsgroups are a great way to share information with others.
(You will see me occasionally posting a tip as do others.)

For a newsgroup to work well, you just adjust your black list.
Then it gets very powerful.

-T

On Sat, 24 Nov 2018 14:47:35 -0800, T wrote:

Have you ever had to post
over on M$'s forums? Some M$ employee gives you a long
winded blow off question that does not help you with your
problem.


No, Microsoft forums almost never have any Microsoft employees there.
Thee are some Microsoft contractors (not really employees), mostly
from India, but they are in the great minority. Almost all the
questions are answered by skilled users of the particular Microsoft
software the forum is about, helping each other if and when they can.
They are not Microsoft employees (not even those with "Microsoft MVP"
(Most Valuable Professional) behind their names; that's an honorary
title for having provided consistently helpful advice).

However, I'll grant you that those Microsoft contractors usually do a
very poor job of answering questions. They are often not particularly
skilled in what the question is about, and because English is usually
a second language for them, they often misunderstand the question, and
are often unable to answer in clear English. And they often simply
provide incorrect answers.

As far as I'm concerned, the forums would be a much better place for
people to get help if Microsoft would drop those contractors
completely. Microsoft could save money on the contractors and make the
forums a better place for help. I've said that to several Microsoft
employees, and they all agreed with me, but none of them was high up
enough on the totem pole to get it done. So it remains the same.

And another aside about the Microsoft forums: the web site is poorly
done, in my opinion. It could be greatly improved, and I've made
several suggestions to Microsoft employees about what to improve.
Alas, my suggestions have all been ignored.

On 24/11/2018 23:34, Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2018 14:47:35 -0800, T wrote:

Have you ever had to post
over on M$'s forums? Some M$ employee gives you a long
winded blow off question that does not help you with your
problem.


No, Microsoft forums almost never have any Microsoft employees there.
Thee are some Microsoft contractors (not really employees), mostly
from India, but they are in the great minority. Almost all the
questions are answered by skilled users of the particular Microsoft
software the forum is about, helping each other if and when they can.
They are not Microsoft employees (not even those with "Microsoft MVP"
(Most Valuable Professional) behind their names; that's an honorary
title for having provided consistently helpful advice).

However, I'll grant you that those Microsoft contractors usually do a
very poor job of answering questions. They are often not particularly
skilled in what the question is about, and because English is usually
a second language for them, they often misunderstand the question, and
are often unable to answer in clear English. And they often simply
provide incorrect answers.

As far as I'm concerned, the forums would be a much better place for
people to get help if Microsoft would drop those contractors
completely. Microsoft could save money on the contractors and make the
forums a better place for help. I've said that to several Microsoft
employees, and they all agreed with me, but none of them was high up
enough on the totem pole to get it done. So it remains the same.

And another aside about the Microsoft forums: the web site is poorly
done, in my opinion. It could be greatly improved, and I've made
several suggestions to Microsoft employees about what to improve.
Alas, my suggestions have all been ignored.

Ken,

Does David Wolters not work for Microsoft itself?

https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview...7+Warning.tiff

D.

On 11/24/18 3:34 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2018 14:47:35 -0800, T wrote:

Have you ever had to post
over on M$'s forums? Some M$ employee gives you a long
winded blow off question that does not help you with your
problem.


No, Microsoft forums almost never have any Microsoft employees there.
Thee are some Microsoft contractors (not really employees), mostly
from India, but they are in the great minority. Almost all the
questions are answered by skilled users of the particular Microsoft
software the forum is about, helping each other if and when they can.
They are not Microsoft employees (not even those with "Microsoft MVP"
(Most Valuable Professional) behind their names; that's an honorary
title for having provided consistently helpful advice).

However, I'll grant you that those Microsoft contractors usually do a
very poor job of answering questions. They are often not particularly
skilled in what the question is about, and because English is usually
a second language for them, they often misunderstand the question, and
are often unable to answer in clear English. And they often simply
provide incorrect answers.

As far as I'm concerned, the forums would be a much better place for
people to get help if Microsoft would drop those contractors
completely. Microsoft could save money on the contractors and make the
forums a better place for help. I've said that to several Microsoft
employees, and they all agreed with me, but none of them was high up
enough on the totem pole to get it done. So it remains the same.

And another aside about the Microsoft forums: the web site is poorly
done, in my opinion. It could be greatly improved, and I've made
several suggestions to Microsoft employees about what to improve.
Alas, my suggestions have all been ignored.

That you tried is impressive.

I have on a few times gotten good luck with their forum.
Mostly not thought. The stupid, non answers I get are
probably those contractors you speak of.

Overwhelmingly, the best help I have gotten has comes from
these newsgroups. You do have to put up with some antisocial
behavior at times, but that is what your kill file filter
is for.

I wonder is M$ will ever relent and do a public mailing list
linked to a forum.

I do wish Google would get off their asses and archive these
newsgroups.

On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 01:29:43 +0000, "David B." "David
wrote:

Does David Wolters not work for Microsoft itself?

https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview...7+Warning.tiff

D.

New stalking target? Did jail not teach you anything?

On Sat, 24 Nov 2018 19:32:26 -0800, T wrote:

On 11/24/18 3:34 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2018 14:47:35 -0800, T wrote:

Have you ever had to post
over on M$'s forums? Some M$ employee gives you a long
winded blow off question that does not help you with your
problem.


No, Microsoft forums almost never have any Microsoft employees there.
Thee are some Microsoft contractors (not really employees), mostly
from India, but they are in the great minority. Almost all the
questions are answered by skilled users of the particular Microsoft
software the forum is about, helping each other if and when they can.
They are not Microsoft employees (not even those with "Microsoft MVP"
(Most Valuable Professional) behind their names; that's an honorary
title for having provided consistently helpful advice).

However, I'll grant you that those Microsoft contractors usually do a
very poor job of answering questions. They are often not particularly
skilled in what the question is about, and because English is usually
a second language for them, they often misunderstand the question, and
are often unable to answer in clear English. And they often simply
provide incorrect answers.

As far as I'm concerned, the forums would be a much better place for
people to get help if Microsoft would drop those contractors
completely. Microsoft could save money on the contractors and make the
forums a better place for help. I've said that to several Microsoft
employees, and they all agreed with me, but none of them was high up
enough on the totem pole to get it done. So it remains the same.

And another aside about the Microsoft forums: the web site is poorly
done, in my opinion. It could be greatly improved, and I've made
several suggestions to Microsoft employees about what to improve.
Alas, my suggestions have all been ignored.

That you tried is impressive.

I have on a few times gotten good luck with their forum.
Mostly not thought. The stupid, non answers I get are
probably those contractors you speak of.

Overwhelmingly, the best help I have gotten has comes from
these newsgroups.


Then you don't have enough experience with the forums. There are
excellent people here, but despite the Microsoft contractors, there
are also excellent people there, and there is lots of good information
you can get there. If anything, because the forums are far more active
than the newsgroups, there are more excellent people there than here.

The most important thing when dealing with either a newsgroup or
web-based forum, is to hang around for a while, so you can learn whose
advice you can trust, and whose advice is useless.


You do have to put up with some antisocial
behavior at times, but that is what your kill file filter
is for.

I wonder is M$ will ever relent and do a public mailing list
linked to a forum.



You have it backwards. Microsoft *used to have* newsgroups and they
were linked to forums. Then they killed the newsgroups, and went
completely to forums. (Actually, they didn't *kill* the newsgroups,
they just withdrew their support for them. But that effectively was
almost the same as killing them. They mostly still exist, but get
little or no traffic these days.) As far as Microsoft is concerned,
the forums have replaced newsgroups; a pity, since as far as I'm
concerned, newsgroups are much better than web-based forums.

Will they ever go back to newsgroups? I strongly doubt it. Newsgroups
of all types are dying. These days only a tiny percentage of computer
users even know what they are or how to use them. In a few more years,
they will all be gone.

On 25/11/2018 15:10, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 01:29:43 +0000, "David B." "David
wrote:

Does David Wolters not work for Microsoft itself?

https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview...7+Warning.tiff


I'll check why that link didn't work later today. My apologies for that.

Here's a thread you should read. David Wolters features in it!

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...e-1579a2bf588b

The OP is a real-life neighbour of mine who asked the question at my
behest. He was surprised by the responses.

David B. wrote:
On 25/11/2018 15:10, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 01:29:43 +0000, "David B." "David
wrote:

Does David Wolters not work for Microsoft itself?

https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview...7+Warning.tiff


I'll check why that link didn't work later today. My apologies for that.

Here's a thread you should read. David Wolters features in it!

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...e-1579a2bf588b


The OP is a real-life neighbour of mine who asked the question at my
behest. He was surprised by the responses.

Were you in jail ?

I see you didn't respond to that.

Did you leave the lid on your wheely bin ajar ?
That's six months in clinky, isn't it ?

Paul

In article , David B.
wrote:


Here's a thread you should read.

more spam.

On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 06:19:04 -0500, Paul wrote:

David B. wrote:
On 25/11/2018 15:10, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 01:29:43 +0000, "David B." "David
wrote:

Does David Wolters not work for Microsoft itself?

https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview...7+Warning.tiff


I'll check why that link didn't work later today. My apologies for that.

Here's a thread you should read. David Wolters features in it!

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...e-1579a2bf588b


The OP is a real-life neighbour of mine who asked the question at my
behest. He was surprised by the responses.

Were you in jail ?

I see you didn't respond to that.

Did you leave the lid on your wheely bin ajar ?
That's six months in clinky, isn't it ?

Over in alt.computer.workshop, he says the police confiscated his
computers, so that partially explains his Usenet absence from late May
until a couple of weeks ago. Others have surmised that the quiet period
included some lockup time, but so far I haven't seen him confirm or
deny. I'm thinking it's more likely than not. When police confiscate
your computers, and your name is David Brooks (and all that that
entails), it's probably not going to end well.

On 26/11/2018 11:19, Paul wrote:
David B. wrote:
On 25/11/2018 15:10, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 01:29:43 +0000, "David B." "David
wrote:

Does David Wolters not work for Microsoft itself?

https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview...7+Warning.tiff


I'll check why that link didn't work later today. My apologies for that.

Here's a thread you should read. David Wolters features in it!

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...e-1579a2bf588b


The OP is a real-life neighbour of mine who asked the question at my
behest. He was surprised by the responses.

Were you in jail ?

Nope! :-)

It was a reference to when I had had a personal visit from the police -
initiated by a Usenet poster calling himself 'Aardvark'. The date was 07
November 2012. Crime Log 130.

Fortunately for him, it wasn't a SWAT team visit or HE would have been
put back in jail again. I understand that his father spent a great deal
of time in prison when Aardvark was growing up in Northern Ireland.

I see you didn't respond to that.

I didn't. Char Jackson was trolling.

Did you leave the lid on your wheely bin ajar ?
That's six months in clinky, isn't it ?

Â*Â* Paul

I do enjoy your sense of humour, Paul. :-)

--
David B.

On 25/11/2018 01:29, David B. wrote:
On 24/11/2018 23:34, Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2018 14:47:35 -0800, T wrote:

Have you ever had to post
over on M$'s forums?Â* Some M$ employee gives you a long
winded blow off question that does not help you with your
problem.


No, Microsoft forums almost never have any Microsoft employees there.
Thee are some Microsoft contractors (not really employees), mostly
from India, but they are in the great minority. Almost all the
questions are answered by skilled users of the particular Microsoft
software the forum is about, helping each other if and when they can.
They are not Microsoft employees (not even those with "Microsoft MVP"
(Most Valuable Professional) behind their names; that's an honorary
title for having provided consistently helpful advice).

However, I'll grant you that those Microsoft contractors usually do a
very poor job of answering questions. They are often not particularly
skilled in what the question is about, and because English is usually
a second language for them, they often misunderstand the question, and
are often unable to answer in clear English. And they often simply
provide incorrect answers.

As far as I'm concerned, the forums would be a much better place for
people to get help if Microsoft would drop those contractors
completely. Microsoft could save money on the contractors and make the
forums a better place for help.Â* I've said that to several Microsoft
employees, and they all agreed with me, but none of them was high up
enough on the totem pole to get it done. So it remains the same.

And another aside about the Microsoft forums: the web site is poorly
done, in my opinion. It could be greatly improved, and I've made
several suggestions to Microsoft employees about what to improve.
Alas, my suggestions have all been ignored.

Ken,

Does David Wolters not work for Microsoft itself?

https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview...7+Warning.tiff


Reposting a link to see if it works now:-

https://www.dropbox.com/s/74rgevudcl...ning.tiff?dl=0

Another PEBCAK error I suspect! Sorry folks. :-)

On 11/25/18 7:47 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
Then you don't have enough experience with the forums. There are
excellent people here,

Never said there wasn't. My experience with them has been the rare
gem and mostly dismal. My experience with the newsgroups has
been very consistent. 95% of the time I get a working answer.
Help to have a mature kill file.

On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 23:49:29 -0800, T wrote:

On 11/25/18 7:47 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
Then you don't have enough experience with the forums. There are
excellent people here,

Never said there wasn't. My experience with them has been the rare
gem and mostly dismal. My experience with the newsgroups has
been very consistent. 95% of the time I get a working answer.
Help to have a mature kill file.



You trimmed the quotation of the paragraph you responded to, and
missed the entire point I was making. Here's the paragraph again. Note
the last sentence in particular.

"Then you don't have enough experience with the forums. There are
excellent people here, but despite the Microsoft contractors, there
are also excellent people there, and there is lots of good information
you can get there. If anything, because the forums are far more active
than the newsgroups, there are more excellent people there than here."