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Does it hurt to put a fan on an SSD?



 
 
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  #16  
Old December 29th 18, 02:07 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
William Gothberg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default Does it hurt to put a fan on an SSD?

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 00:09:51 -0000, nospam wrote:

In article , mike
wrote:

By the way, the same heat is better nonsense kicks around
every so often for mechanical hard drives as well.

it's not nonsense.

one of the best references is google's drive study, which looked at
more than 100k drives from numerous manufacturers and found that cooler
temperatures actually have a *higher* failure rate:

http://static.googleusercontent.com/....com/en//archi
ve/disk_failures.pdf
The data in this study are collected from a large number of disk
drives, deployed in several types of systems across all of Google¹s
services. More than one hundred thousand disk drives were used for
all the results presented here. The disks are a combination of serial
and parallel ATA consumer-grade hard disk drives, ranging in speed
from 5400 to 7200 rpm, and in size from 80 to 400 GB. All units in
this study were put into production in or after 2001. The population
contains several models from many of the largest disk drive
manufacturers and from at least nine different models. The data used
for this study were collected between December 2005 and August 2006
...
We first look at the correlation between average temperature during
the observation period and failure. Figure 4 shows the distribution
of drives with average temperature in increments of one degree and
the correspond- ing annualized failure rates. The figure shows that
failures do not increase when the average temperature increases. In
fact, there is a clear trend showing that lower temperatures are
associated with higher failure rates. Only at very high temperatures
is there a slight reversal of this trend.

figure 4:
http://www.storagemojo.com/wp-conten..._temp_age_dist.
png

and as for ssds, heat is even less of an issue, since there are no
moving parts.

This thread is spinning out of control.


bad pun.

Detailed data on spinning drives is not relevant.


it is when one claims heat causes mechanical drives to fail.

I read that, in a TLC drive, the difference between
stored value might be as little as 15 electrons.
That ain't much margin.


yet they're are very reliable, and there is now qlc.


I've found they're equally as unreliable as mechanical drives. And some of them are absolute ****e, like OCZ SSDs. They fail in under a year! I'm surprised the company isn't bankrupt yet.
Ads
  #17  
Old December 29th 18, 02:35 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Does it hurt to put a fan on an SSD?

In article , William Gothberg
wrote:


I read that, in a TLC drive, the difference between
stored value might be as little as 15 electrons.
That ain't much margin.


yet they're are very reliable, and there is now qlc.


I've found they're equally as unreliable as mechanical drives.


then you had duds. nothing is perfect.

ssds are *significantly* more reliable and faster than mechanical
drives.

And some of them are absolute ****e, like OCZ SSDs. They fail in
under a year! I'm surprised the company isn't bankrupt yet.


some older ocz ssds had issues, but these days they're fine.

or just stick with crucial or samsung.
  #18  
Old December 29th 18, 02:35 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Does it hurt to put a fan on an SSD?

In article , William Gothberg
wrote:

figure 4:
http://www.storagemojo.com/wp-conten..._temp_age_dist.
png


That would be
http://www.storagemojo.com/wp-conten...p_age_dist.png


nope. it would be as i posted, properly delimited with .

your version will break when quoted. that's bad.

Otherwise I get "This page isn¹t working, storagemojo.com redirected you too
many times."


then your newsreader doesn't properly handle urls. it's broken.

Don't wrap links please.


i didn't wrap anything. whatever wrapping you saw or problems you
encountered were entirely at your end, by your software.

get a better newsreader, one which complies with the relevant rfcs and
doesn't wrap or break links.

do not expect others to alter links because you choose to use ****ty
software.
  #19  
Old December 29th 18, 03:59 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,600
Default Does it hurt to put a fan on an SSD?

On 12/28/18 6:16 AM, Paul wrote:
FlashÂ*memoryÂ*isÂ*actually *annealed*Â*atÂ*highÂ*temperature.


Interesting. "Annealed" to me means heating a piece of metal and
then rapidly ramming it into cold water or oil. What is the
process used here? spraying it with CO2 or liquid N2?


  #20  
Old December 29th 18, 04:35 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Does it hurt to put a fan on an SSD?

William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 00:09:51 -0000, nospam wrote:

In article , mike
wrote:

By the way, the same heat is better nonsense kicks around
every so often for mechanical hard drives as well.

it's not nonsense.

one of the best references is google's drive study, which looked at
more than 100k drives from numerous manufacturers and found that
cooler
temperatures actually have a *higher* failure rate:


http://static.googleusercontent.com/....com/en//archi
ve/disk_failures.pdf
The data in this study are collected from a large number of disk
drives, deployed in several types of systems across all of Google¹s
services. More than one hundred thousand disk drives were used for
all the results presented here. The disks are a combination of
serial
and parallel ATA consumer-grade hard disk drives, ranging in speed
from 5400 to 7200 rpm, and in size from 80 to 400 GB. All units in
this study were put into production in or after 2001. The
population
contains several models from many of the largest disk drive
manufacturers and from at least nine different models. The data
used
for this study were collected between December 2005 and August 2006
...
We first look at the correlation between average temperature during
the observation period and failure. Figure 4 shows the distribution
of drives with average temperature in increments of one degree and
the correspond- ing annualized failure rates. The figure shows that
failures do not increase when the average temperature increases. In
fact, there is a clear trend showing that lower temperatures are
associated with higher failure rates. Only at very high
temperatures
is there a slight reversal of this trend.

figure 4:

http://www.storagemojo.com/wp-conten..._temp_age_dist.

png

and as for ssds, heat is even less of an issue, since there are no
moving parts.

This thread is spinning out of control.


bad pun.

Detailed data on spinning drives is not relevant.


it is when one claims heat causes mechanical drives to fail.

I read that, in a TLC drive, the difference between
stored value might be as little as 15 electrons.
That ain't much margin.


yet they're are very reliable, and there is now qlc.


I've found they're equally as unreliable as mechanical drives. And some
of them are absolute ****e, like OCZ SSDs. They fail in under a year!
I'm surprised the company isn't bankrupt yet.


You know there are two OCZ companies, right ?

The original company, the one that made the drives
with bad firmware, or made drives with different
flash while using the same SKU, they're gone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OCZ

It looks like they were toasted around the end of 2013 or so.

Part of OCZ was bought by Toshiba (TAEC?), so today you're likely
to find Toshiba Flash inside. I don't know what the
design characteristics are like.

More than one company in the past had trouble with
SSD firmware code quality (I think Intel had to re-write
some Sandforce code once). As writing code for the
multicore processor inside the SSD is tough to get
right. You have to design the device so that it
suffers no data loss on a power failure. Which
should be easy to do with journaling. You'd need to
implement an atomic write scheme. The drive has to
re-write and re-arrange data in the background,
to pack small 4KB writes into more efficient
units of storage. Since the drive maps virtual LBAs
to physical LBAs, it's also not a matter of "just
writing contiguous chunks of Flash". Even when you're
not seeking all over the place, inside, the drive is
seeking all over the place. When you write a file to
a flash drive, it can be "sprayed all over the place"
in terms of physical storage locations. You really
need the mapping table, when doing data recovery.

In the past, some SSD drives could run all night,
doing busy work internally, and cleaning up after
a 4KB-random-write-test. Then by the next day,
the write performance level would have returned to
the normal speed again. In 2018, we have TRIM
available to offer hints to the drive, and
measurably take the pressure off the optimization
procedures inside.

Enterprise drives have a Supercap inside for
energy storage. On loss of power, the drive
runs off the Supercap for a few seconds, which
enhances the survival capabilities of the drive
and gives the drive a way to properly clean up
before doing a controlled shutdown. While some
consumer drives have the solder pads for the
Supercap, no Supercap is provided. The power
converter associated with the Supercap is
also missing.

Even without offering an opinion on current "reliability",
the failure characteristics have to be, by design,
"abrupt". If you lose a critical data structure
inside the drive, it can brick instantly. For this
reason, I still recommend more frequent backups.

By comparison, for my hard drives here, you can
watch day by day, as a drive slips into trouble.
And if your spider sense is working for you, do
something about the HDD loss of performance
(make a backup) before it is too late. With the
abrupt failure case on an SSD, that's not possible,
so all we can do to protect against those, is
more frequent (incremental) backups.

Back in the original OCZ days, I think they had
a patent on abrupt failures.

Even one Seagate hard drive had an abrupt failure
case caused by internal control structure corruption
by firmware. There is a precedent for these abrupt
failure cases, provided by the disk drive companies,
and sometimes the firmware on hard drives isn't
fully baked either. In the Seagate case in question,
it would croak roughly 30 days after you bought one.
Which suggests their test procedure stopped
at 29 days :-)

Paul
  #21  
Old December 29th 18, 04:47 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Does it hurt to put a fan on an SSD?

mike wrote:

This thread is spinning out of control.
Detailed data on spinning drives is not relevant.

I read that, in a TLC drive, the difference between
stored value might be as little as 15 electrons.
That ain't much margin.

My engineering training taught me that...
Within normal temperature ranges encountered in
inhabited spaces...
For most electronic things...
Failure rate is an exponential function of temperature.

I've taken steps to reduce the SSD temperature with a fan.
It's idling at 41C. I don't have any high write rate data
because, at this stage, I'm doing everything I can to REDUCE
writes.

I've read that SSD writes are less stressful
at slightly elevated temperatures.

I'm experimenting on the Kingston SSD, but the eventual
drive will be a Samsung 860 EVO 500GB.

The question is:
Would service life of the SSD INCREASE by a significant amount
if I let the temperature rise to 50C? 60C?


When you write at 60C, you're trading off data retention
(need to error-correct sectors on read), versus the
presumed reduction in damage on a write, and surpassing
the 3000 cycle write life. On TLC, this could result
in mushy sectors in three months time, and a reduced
read rate. On true MLC drives, this might work out for
you. But of course, MLC drives have longer write
life anyway (more than 3000 cycles).

On an Intel drive, this optimization would be academic.
Once the drive works out that each location has hit
the magic 3000 number, the drive basically shuts off
on both read and write, trapping your data inside.
You would be wasting your time with this optimization
on an Intel drive. You *have* to check the end-of-life
policy with each brand, to understand what your options
are. Some, go read-only. Some, simply operate past
their stated write life, until they brick by "natural
causes", a failure to re-write their critical data
properly. When a drive runs past computed write life,
an undetectable error could happen at any time (and
we don't know what the odds are of that happening).
I especially wouldn't recommend doing this with TLC,
because TLC is already mushy in normal usage, without
relying on the cells to work properly past 3000 or
whatever.

Some SSD storage devices (the NVMe variety), throttle
at high temperature, which prevents their temperature
regime from spinning out of control. So there does seem
to be the normal amount of interest in keeping the
peak temperature below the level that might cause
physical damage to the IC packaging (~99C rating).
You'd have to do a bit more research, to get a
figure for what the trigger temperature is
for throttling on such SSDs, as I don't have
a figure for you. I don't own any of the 2500MB/sec
stuff here :-) I'm a cheapskate.

Paul
  #22  
Old December 29th 18, 07:44 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Does it hurt to put a fan on an SSD?

T wrote:
On 12/28/18 6:16 AM, Paul wrote:
Flash memory is actually *annealed* at high temperature.


Interesting. "Annealed" to me means heating a piece of metal and
then rapidly ramming it into cold water or oil. What is the
process used here? spraying it with CO2 or liquid N2?


That's "heat treating", when you heat and plunge into
water to change the recrystallization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_treating#Quenching

"Quenching is a process of cooling a metal at a rapid rate.

This is most often done to produce a martensite transformation.

In ferrous alloys, this will often produce a harder metal,
while non-ferrous alloys will usually become softer than normal.
"

That can actually add stress, because the fine blade you made
that way, can easily snap off on you. When stress is applied
in the wrong direction. Or where the work is thinnest (when you
snap the tip off your knife while trying to open a beer bottle).

Annealing is the removal of stress.

If you visit a glass blower, he has a long narrow table
where finished glass pieces are laid. The table has
a "lid" which is an insulator (possibly fire brick
with a metal outer sheath). The lid is lowered after
you add new works on the table. The table is heated,
but not heated to the melting point of the glass
(500C ???). The works sit under that lid and
bide their time, and after maybe six hours you
can take them out.

What that does, is if you make a T-joint in glass
tubes, the "elbows" of the joint have subjected
the glass to bending and stress. The glass wants
to "crack" on the elbow area. If you grab the
leg of the T and give it a yank, it'll snap off
on you. That's what happens when an amateur (that's
me in the lab) makes one. We make stuff for lab usage,
but because of the stress issue, our works of art
are not likely to survive long term.

You can sometimes hold the bad ones up in the
light, and see cracks already formed in the glass
where you made the (crappy) joint.

Once the T joint is laid on the heated table and
soaks for six hours, you take it out, wait for it
to cool to touch. Now, if you give the leg a yank,
it holds. The glass in the elbow has now "relaxed"
and is resistant to stress cracks. (You need a defect,
for a crack to start.)

The idea is, you want to put the item onto the table
soon after working on it, so that the misery you
put the glass through, can flow out of it again.
But you can't heat the table so hot, that the
tubes you were working on, begin to sag. If you
wait a year, and put that piece of glass on the
table, the annealing then won't help. It's too late.

We had a master glass blower to train us, and
glass obeys his every command. Our works would
suck and have thin spots or globs of gathered
glass. He could make a hundred T joints, and
they would all be exactly the same. And he could
do that without a jig, just holding glass tubes
with his hands, joining them precisely at 90
degrees if desired, and so on. He was trained in
South Africa (they have glass works). He actually
moved there specifically to train as a Master.
His father was a Master, and so is he.

The mark of a glass blower, is all the hair is burned
off the backs of their hands, from working around a
flame all day long. When you look at their hands,
you notice there's "something funny about them", but it
might take you a while to figure out the difference.

Paul
  #23  
Old December 29th 18, 11:55 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,600
Default Does it hurt to put a fan on an SSD?

On 12/28/18 10:44 PM, Paul wrote:
T wrote:
On 12/28/18 6:16 AM, Paul wrote:
Flash memory is actually *annealed* at high temperature.


Interesting.Â* "Annealed" to me means heating a piece of metal and
then rapidly ramming it into cold water or oil.Â* What is the
process used here? spraying it with CO2 or liquid N2?


That's "heat treating", when you heat and plunge into
water to change the recrystallization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_treating#Quenching

Â*Â* "Quenching is a process of cooling a metal at a rapid rate.

Â*Â*Â* This is most often done to produce a martensite transformation.

Â*Â*Â* In ferrous alloys, this will often produce a harder metal,
Â*Â*Â* while non-ferrous alloys will usually become softer than normal.
Â*Â* "

That can actually add stress, because the fine blade you made
that way, can easily snap off on you. When stress is applied
in the wrong direction. Or where the work is thinnest (when you
snap the tip off your knife while trying to open a beer bottle).

Annealing is the removal of stress.

If you visit a glass blower, he has a long narrow table
where finished glass pieces are laid. The table has
a "lid" which is an insulator (possibly fire brick
with a metal outer sheath). The lid is lowered after
you add new works on the table. The table is heated,
but not heated to the melting point of the glass
(500C ???). The works sit under that lid and
bide their time, and after maybe six hours you
can take them out.

What that does, is if you make a T-joint in glass
tubes, the "elbows" of the joint have subjected
the glass to bending and stress. The glass wants
to "crack" on the elbow area. If you grab the
leg of the T and give it a yank, it'll snap off
on you. That's what happens when an amateur (that's
me in the lab) makes one. We make stuff for lab usage,
but because of the stress issue, our works of art
are not likely to survive long term.

You can sometimes hold the bad ones up in the
light, and see cracks already formed in the glass
where you made the (crappy) joint.

Once the T joint is laid on the heated table and
soaks for six hours, you take it out, wait for it
to cool to touch. Now, if you give the leg a yank,
it holds. The glass in the elbow has now "relaxed"
and is resistant to stress cracks. (You need a defect,
for a crack to start.)

The idea is, you want to put the item onto the table
soon after working on it, so that the misery you
put the glass through, can flow out of it again.
But you can't heat the table so hot, that the
tubes you were working on, begin to sag. If you
wait a year, and put that piece of glass on the
table, the annealing then won't help. It's too late.

We had a master glass blower to train us, and
glass obeys his every command. Our works would
suck and have thin spots or globs of gathered
glass. He could make a hundred T joints, and
they would all be exactly the same. And he could
do that without a jig, just holding glass tubes
with his hands, joining them precisely at 90
degrees if desired, and so on. He was trained in
South Africa (they have glass works). He actually
moved there specifically to train as a Master.
His father was a Master, and so is he.

The mark of a glass blower, is all the hair is burned
off the backs of their hands, from working around a
flame all day long. When you look at their hands,
you notice there's "something funny about them", but it
might take you a while to figure out the difference.

Â*Â* Paul


Thank you. I had them mixed up.

I have not heard the term "martensite" in about 40 years.

How are these memory cells annealed?


  #24  
Old December 29th 18, 12:21 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Does it hurt to put a fan on an SSD?

T wrote:


Thank you. I had them mixed up.

I have not heard the term "martensite" in about 40 years.

How are these memory cells annealed?


I didn't know this.

It looks like someone has built some.

Presumably just for bar bets and such.

https://www.extremetech.com/computin...million-cycles

"Macronix’s new memory cells contains a heating element
that can deliver a jolt of 800C (1472F) heat to the cell,
healing it and preventing wear-out"

Now that's hot!

Hotter than a self-cleaning oven.

Paul
  #25  
Old December 29th 18, 12:57 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,356
Default Does it hurt to put a fan on an SSD?

On 29/12/2018 02.35, nospam wrote:
In article , William Gothberg
wrote:

figure 4:
http://www.storagemojo.com/wp-conten..._temp_age_dist.
png


That would be
http://www.storagemojo.com/wp-conten...p_age_dist.png


nope. it would be as i posted, properly delimited with .

your version will break when quoted. that's bad.

Otherwise I get "This page isn¹t working, storagemojo.com redirected you too
many times."


then your newsreader doesn't properly handle urls. it's broken.

Don't wrap links please.


i didn't wrap anything. whatever wrapping you saw or problems you
encountered were entirely at your end, by your software.


No, the line was wrapped before we got it, so either by your software or
in transit. We can see it by looking at the raw message code.


get a better newsreader, one which complies with the relevant rfcs and
doesn't wrap or break links.


I'm not certain that there is a an RFC regarding the brackets on URLS.
It is a standard accepted by some some software and not by other.


--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #26  
Old December 29th 18, 02:36 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
William Gothberg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default Does it hurt to put a fan on an SSD?

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 01:35:41 -0000, nospam wrote:

In article , William Gothberg
wrote:


I read that, in a TLC drive, the difference between
stored value might be as little as 15 electrons.
That ain't much margin.

yet they're are very reliable, and there is now qlc.


I've found they're equally as unreliable as mechanical drives.


then you had duds. nothing is perfect.


They're as unreliable as LED lighting. New technology, not ironed out the problems yet.

ssds are *significantly* more reliable and faster than mechanical
drives.


Yeah right. Most mechanical drives I've had have lasted for 10 years plus - long enough that I just give them away as they're too small.

And some of them are absolute ****e, like OCZ SSDs. They fail in
under a year! I'm surprised the company isn't bankrupt yet.


some older ocz ssds had issues, but these days they're fine.


Some?! I bought 10 and all 10 failed, 3 of them had the replacements fail too! That's more than enough reason to never use that piece of **** company again. Bad reviews of them all over the net aswell.

or just stick with crucial or samsung.


I do now. Although I've had quite a few Crucial ones require a flash update as they just disappeared from the BIOS!
  #27  
Old December 29th 18, 02:49 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
William Gothberg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default Does it hurt to put a fan on an SSD?

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 03:35:39 -0000, Paul wrote:

William Gothberg wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 00:09:51 -0000, nospam wrote:

In article , mike
wrote:

By the way, the same heat is better nonsense kicks around
every so often for mechanical hard drives as well.

it's not nonsense.

one of the best references is google's drive study, which looked at
more than 100k drives from numerous manufacturers and found that
cooler
temperatures actually have a *higher* failure rate:


http://static.googleusercontent.com/....com/en//archi
ve/disk_failures.pdf
The data in this study are collected from a large number of disk
drives, deployed in several types of systems across all of Google¹s
services. More than one hundred thousand disk drives were used for
all the results presented here. The disks are a combination of
serial
and parallel ATA consumer-grade hard disk drives, ranging in speed
from 5400 to 7200 rpm, and in size from 80 to 400 GB. All units in
this study were put into production in or after 2001. The
population
contains several models from many of the largest disk drive
manufacturers and from at least nine different models. The data
used
for this study were collected between December 2005 and August 2006
...
We first look at the correlation between average temperature during
the observation period and failure. Figure 4 shows the distribution
of drives with average temperature in increments of one degree and
the correspond- ing annualized failure rates. The figure shows that
failures do not increase when the average temperature increases. In
fact, there is a clear trend showing that lower temperatures are
associated with higher failure rates. Only at very high
temperatures
is there a slight reversal of this trend.

figure 4:

http://www.storagemojo.com/wp-conten..._temp_age_dist.

png

and as for ssds, heat is even less of an issue, since there are no
moving parts.

This thread is spinning out of control.

bad pun.

Detailed data on spinning drives is not relevant.

it is when one claims heat causes mechanical drives to fail.

I read that, in a TLC drive, the difference between
stored value might be as little as 15 electrons.
That ain't much margin.

yet they're are very reliable, and there is now qlc.


I've found they're equally as unreliable as mechanical drives. And some
of them are absolute ****e, like OCZ SSDs. They fail in under a year!
I'm surprised the company isn't bankrupt yet.


You know there are two OCZ companies, right ?

The original company, the one that made the drives
with bad firmware, or made drives with different
flash while using the same SKU, they're gone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OCZ

It looks like they were toasted around the end of 2013 or so.

Part of OCZ was bought by Toshiba (TAEC?), so today you're likely
to find Toshiba Flash inside. I don't know what the
design characteristics are like.


That's as stupid as VW buying Skoda then still calling them Skoda. Why continue to use a severely tarnished name?

More than one company in the past had trouble with
SSD firmware code quality (I think Intel had to re-write
some Sandforce code once). As writing code for the
multicore processor inside the SSD is tough to get
right. You have to design the device so that it
suffers no data loss on a power failure. Which
should be easy to do with journaling. You'd need to
implement an atomic write scheme. The drive has to
re-write and re-arrange data in the background,
to pack small 4KB writes into more efficient
units of storage. Since the drive maps virtual LBAs
to physical LBAs, it's also not a matter of "just
writing contiguous chunks of Flash". Even when you're
not seeking all over the place, inside, the drive is
seeking all over the place. When you write a file to
a flash drive, it can be "sprayed all over the place"
in terms of physical storage locations. You really
need the mapping table, when doing data recovery.


You'd think they would have got that right in testing before selling the bloody things.

In the past, some SSD drives could run all night,
doing busy work internally, and cleaning up after
a 4KB-random-write-test. Then by the next day,
the write performance level would have returned to
the normal speed again. In 2018, we have TRIM
available to offer hints to the drive, and
measurably take the pressure off the optimization
procedures inside.


I've found that every make of SSD is rubbish if they get more than half full. They slow to about one tenth of their rated speed. So like every other dodgy piece of crap nowadays, you have to buy something twice as big or twice as powerful as you actually need.

Enterprise drives have a Supercap inside for
energy storage. On loss of power, the drive
runs off the Supercap for a few seconds, which
enhances the survival capabilities of the drive
and gives the drive a way to properly clean up
before doing a controlled shutdown. While some
consumer drives have the solder pads for the
Supercap, no Supercap is provided. The power
converter associated with the Supercap is
also missing.

Even without offering an opinion on current "reliability",
the failure characteristics have to be, by design,
"abrupt". If you lose a critical data structure
inside the drive, it can brick instantly. For this
reason, I still recommend more frequent backups.


The drives should be designed properly so if something goes wrong you lose a few files, not the entire disk. Yes I have backups, but losing 5 files is a lot easier than having to restore the whole ****ing OS drive.

By comparison, for my hard drives here, you can
watch day by day, as a drive slips into trouble.
And if your spider sense is working for you, do
something about the HDD loss of performance
(make a backup) before it is too late. With the
abrupt failure case on an SSD, that's not possible,
so all we can do to protect against those, is
more frequent (incremental) backups.

Back in the original OCZ days, I think they had
a patent on abrupt failures.

Even one Seagate hard drive had an abrupt failure
case caused by internal control structure corruption
by firmware. There is a precedent for these abrupt
failure cases, provided by the disk drive companies,
and sometimes the firmware on hard drives isn't
fully baked either. In the Seagate case in question,
it would croak roughly 30 days after you bought one.
Which suggests their test procedure stopped
at 29 days :-)


The only time I've ever had a mechanical drive fail abruptly was my own fault - I managed to connect the IDE cable backwards (it wasn't keyed for some reason), this wiped the entire thing when I booted up the machine.. Every other drive has made nasty audible clunks so I know a month in advance to replace it.
  #28  
Old December 29th 18, 02:56 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Does it hurt to put a fan on an SSD?

Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 29/12/2018 02.35, nospam wrote:
In article , William Gothberg
wrote:

figure 4:
http://www.storagemojo.com/wp-conten..._temp_age_dist.
png
That would be
http://www.storagemojo.com/wp-conten...p_age_dist.png

nope. it would be as i posted, properly delimited with .

your version will break when quoted. that's bad.

Otherwise I get "This page isn¹t working, storagemojo.com redirected you too
many times."

then your newsreader doesn't properly handle urls. it's broken.

Don't wrap links please.

i didn't wrap anything. whatever wrapping you saw or problems you
encountered were entirely at your end, by your software.


No, the line was wrapped before we got it, so either by your software or
in transit. We can see it by looking at the raw message code.


get a better newsreader, one which complies with the relevant rfcs and
doesn't wrap or break links.


I'm not certain that there is a an RFC regarding the brackets on URLS.
It is a standard accepted by some some software and not by other.


Somebody has their wrap set to 72 characters...

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi...pam.invalid%3E

Paul
  #29  
Old December 29th 18, 02:57 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
William Gothberg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default Does it hurt to put a fan on an SSD?

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 01:35:42 -0000, nospam wrote:

In article , William Gothberg
wrote:

figure 4:
http://www.storagemojo.com/wp-conten..._temp_age_dist.
png


That would be
http://www.storagemojo.com/wp-conten...p_age_dist.png


nope. it would be as i posted, properly delimited with .


You don't need . Any newsreader that actually snaps a word (or URL) in half is very badly designed. If you're going to insist on this outdated 70 characters per line ****, it shouldn't include single words (or URLs).

your version will break when quoted. that's bad.


Funny, it didn't. It's still in one piece above.

Otherwise I get "This page isn¹t working, storagemojo.com redirected you too
many times."


then your newsreader doesn't properly handle urls. it's broken.

Don't wrap links please.


i didn't wrap anything. whatever wrapping you saw or problems you
encountered were entirely at your end, by your software.


Bull****, my wrapping is turned off, I think you'll find it's your 70 char per line limit.

get a better newsreader, one which complies with the relevant rfcs and
doesn't wrap or break links.


**** the rules, use logic. As I said above, but you seem to want to break my post into several parts and repeat yourself, you do not need to wrap the URL in the first place. The is a workaround for a ****ed newsreader.

do not expect others to alter links because you choose to use ****ty
software.


Are you Rod Speed? On and on stating the same thing over and over, I get the picture.....
  #30  
Old December 29th 18, 02:58 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
William Gothberg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default Does it hurt to put a fan on an SSD?

On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 11:57:18 -0000, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 29/12/2018 02.35, nospam wrote:
In article , William Gothberg
wrote:

figure 4:
http://www.storagemojo.com/wp-conten..._temp_age_dist.
png

That would be
http://www.storagemojo.com/wp-conten...p_age_dist.png


nope. it would be as i posted, properly delimited with .

your version will break when quoted. that's bad.

Otherwise I get "This page isn¹t working, storagemojo.com redirected you too
many times."


then your newsreader doesn't properly handle urls. it's broken.

Don't wrap links please.


i didn't wrap anything. whatever wrapping you saw or problems you
encountered were entirely at your end, by your software.


No, the line was wrapped before we got it, so either by your software or
in transit. We can see it by looking at the raw message code.


get a better newsreader, one which complies with the relevant rfcs and
doesn't wrap or break links.


I'm not certain that there is a an RFC regarding the brackets on URLS.
It is a standard accepted by some some software and not by other.


And entirely unnecessary. Just don't wrap the thing in the first place! Look at my version, still intact in one piece and clickable.
 




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