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#1
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Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100years
Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 09:03:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 19/09/2019 03.12, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 00:14:19 +0200, "Carlos E. R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 23.06, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 15:29:18 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 11.07, Eric Stevens wrote: On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 22:30:33 -0400, "Mayayana" wrote: I don't know what to think, personally. I'm not convinced that we have the capability to really know what's happening or why. But I do know that I used to play hockey on local ponds from late November to March when I was young, and in recent years the ponds rarely even freeze over. So wouldn't it make sense to just avoid actions that might contribute to global warming, just to be on the safe side? What harm is there in increasing solar and wind energy sources, It will lead to horrendously expensive and unreliable power. LOL. There is an island in Spain that has gone a month with only wind and solar power. Just an example. A second example is the Isle of Eigg, near Scotland. "Eigg generates virtually 100% of its electricity using renewable energy." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eigg Indeed. It is early days for that technology, but it shows that it is possible and that we can achieve it, with time and effort. At worst, fuel will last longer, because as sure as death exists and is inevitable, fosil fuel will one day be spent. You should read https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/...-civilization/ LOL. Already proven wrong. That's interesting. By whom? In what respect? Can you give me reference? It depends what you call "modern civilization", though. I live with 2.3 Kw. Most houses here are limited to 3.5 or 4.6. Now, what about a steel mill? A chemical refinery? An aluminium smelter? A cement plant? A paper mill? A railway system? Have you really thought about the problems of supporting such industries with solar or wind? Aluminum smelting - happens to be done mostly in the province with the most hydroelectricity supply. https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/our-natural-...um-facts/20510 "By using mostly hydroelectricity and the latest generation of technologies, Canadian aluminum producers have the lowest carbon footprint compared with the other large producers." https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/our-natural-...re-facts/20517 49.0 million tonnes of iron ore in concentrate and pellets crude steel production for 2017 was 13.6 million tonnes Canada was also a net importer of semi-finished and finished steel products, with the Canadian steel industry importing 9 million tonnes. [Likely linked to the auto pact] Electric arc furnaces allow steel to be made from 100% scrap metal feedstock. This greatly reduces the energy required to make steel, compared with primary steelmaking from ore. The increasing shift toward the use of electric arc furnaces in the manufacture of steel will support the global market for steel scrap, which is projected to reach 755 million tonnes by 2024. The chemical industries, are the usual situation. Lethargy. Turnover rate. "The readily available and relatively inexpensive sources of fossil fuels that the chemical industry has enjoyed for the last century are in part responsible for the present situation." The cement plants have people looking at them. That doesn't mean changes here will happen overnight. https://phys.org/news/2019-09-carbon...on-cement.html https://arstechnica.com/science/2019...irty-industry/ Our rail system here is still diesel/electric (diesel generation, electric traction drive to wheels). Subways or light rail are electric (an inconsequential amount). When you're hauling petroleum across the countryside with freight trains, that doesn't make a lot of sense. However, it's hard to get sufficient agreement with certain parties, to build pipelines. The paper mill could run off electricity. You can't tell what it runs on from the outside, as much of the plumes are steam. And the effluent is disgusting ("diluting it" is silly, and implies the effluent "just... disappears", which it does not). Paul |
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#2
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Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years
On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 12:30:32 -0400, Paul
wrote: Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 09:03:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 19/09/2019 03.12, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 00:14:19 +0200, "Carlos E. R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 23.06, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 15:29:18 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 11.07, Eric Stevens wrote: On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 22:30:33 -0400, "Mayayana" wrote: I don't know what to think, personally. I'm not convinced that we have the capability to really know what's happening or why. But I do know that I used to play hockey on local ponds from late November to March when I was young, and in recent years the ponds rarely even freeze over. So wouldn't it make sense to just avoid actions that might contribute to global warming, just to be on the safe side? What harm is there in increasing solar and wind energy sources, It will lead to horrendously expensive and unreliable power. LOL. There is an island in Spain that has gone a month with only wind and solar power. Just an example. A second example is the Isle of Eigg, near Scotland. "Eigg generates virtually 100% of its electricity using renewable energy." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eigg Indeed. It is early days for that technology, but it shows that it is possible and that we can achieve it, with time and effort. At worst, fuel will last longer, because as sure as death exists and is inevitable, fosil fuel will one day be spent. You should read https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/...-civilization/ LOL. Already proven wrong. That's interesting. By whom? In what respect? Can you give me reference? It depends what you call "modern civilization", though. I live with 2.3 Kw. Most houses here are limited to 3.5 or 4.6. Now, what about a steel mill? A chemical refinery? An aluminium smelter? A cement plant? A paper mill? A railway system? Have you really thought about the problems of supporting such industries with solar or wind? Aluminum smelting - happens to be done mostly in the province with the most hydroelectricity supply. https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/our-natural-...um-facts/20510 "By using mostly hydroelectricity and the latest generation of technologies, Canadian aluminum producers have the lowest carbon footprint compared with the other large producers." I asked you a general question and you answer with a specific example. :-( https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/our-natural-...re-facts/20517 49.0 million tonnes of iron ore in concentrate and pellets crude steel production for 2017 was 13.6 million tonnes Canada was also a net importer of semi-finished and finished steel products, with the Canadian steel industry importing 9 million tonnes. [Likely linked to the auto pact] Electric arc furnaces allow steel to be made from 100% scrap metal feedstock. This greatly reduces the energy required to make steel, compared with primary steelmaking from ore. The increasing shift toward the use of electric arc furnaces in the manufacture of steel will support the global market for steel scrap, which is projected to reach 755 million tonnes by 2024. I suspect you have never seen an electric arc furnace operating, particularly when they first start up with a load of scrap. You should watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6Uxh-xtU-g up to at least the first two minutes to see why they are the worst possible customer for an electrical supplier. Talk about ROUGH! Windmills and solar panels wouldn't have a chance of surviving such an electrical load. The chemical industries, are the usual situation. Lethargy. Turnover rate. "The readily available and relatively inexpensive sources of fossil fuels that the chemical industry has enjoyed for the last century are in part responsible for the present situation." Fossil fuels are not just fuels but chemical raw materials. Our prsent statndard of technology cannot do without them. The cement plants have people looking at them. That doesn't mean changes here will happen overnight. https://phys.org/news/2019-09-carbon...on-cement.html OK. Separation of the CO2 generated by the production of cement. Then what? https://arstechnica.com/science/2019...irty-industry/ "That means there are two problems to solve: the cement-making process needs to run on clean energy, and the CO2 that is released must be captured somehow. A new study led by MIT’s Leah Ellis outlines an option that could make progress on both." That states the problem. Now wait for the answers. And wait. And wait. Our rail system here is still diesel/electric (diesel generation, electric traction drive to wheels). Subways or light rail are electric (an inconsequential amount). The variability of their power draw makes trains almost as bad as arc furnaces from a supply point of view. When you're hauling petroleum across the countryside with freight trains, that doesn't make a lot of sense. However, it's hard to get sufficient agreement with certain parties, to build pipelines. Especially when steel for the pipes becomes so expensive. The paper mill could run off electricity. You can't tell what it runs on from the outside, as much of the plumes are steam. And the effluent is disgusting ("diluting it" is silly, and implies the effluent "just... disappears", which it does not). I've worked for several yars in a paper mill. They are not bad as a customer but their demand is very substantial all around the clock. People who advocate wind or solar for the supply of electricity to our society just don't understand the problems. Paul -- Eric Stevens There are two classes of people. Those who divide people into two classes and those who don't. I belong to the second class. |
#3
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Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100years
On 20/09/2019 02.33, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 12:30:32 -0400, Paul wrote: Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 09:03:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 19/09/2019 03.12, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 00:14:19 +0200, "Carlos E. R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 23.06, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 15:29:18 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 11.07, Eric Stevens wrote: On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 22:30:33 -0400, "Mayayana" wrote: I don't know what to think, personally. I'm not convinced that we have the capability to really know what's happening or why. But I do know that I used to play hockey on local ponds from late November to March when I was young, and in recent years the ponds rarely even freeze over. So wouldn't it make sense to just avoid actions that might contribute to global warming, just to be on the safe side? What harm is there in increasing solar and wind energy sources, It will lead to horrendously expensive and unreliable power. LOL. There is an island in Spain that has gone a month with only wind and solar power. Just an example. A second example is the Isle of Eigg, near Scotland. "Eigg generates virtually 100% of its electricity using renewable energy." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eigg Indeed. It is early days for that technology, but it shows that it is possible and that we can achieve it, with time and effort. At worst, fuel will last longer, because as sure as death exists and is inevitable, fosil fuel will one day be spent. You should read https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/...-civilization/ LOL. Already proven wrong. That's interesting. By whom? In what respect? Can you give me reference? It depends what you call "modern civilization", though. I live with 2.3 Kw. Most houses here are limited to 3.5 or 4.6. Now, what about a steel mill? A chemical refinery? An aluminium smelter? A cement plant? A paper mill? A railway system? Have you really thought about the problems of supporting such industries with solar or wind? Aluminum smelting - happens to be done mostly in the province with the most hydroelectricity supply. https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/our-natural-...um-facts/20510 "By using mostly hydroelectricity and the latest generation of technologies, Canadian aluminum producers have the lowest carbon footprint compared with the other large producers." I asked you a general question and you answer with a specific example. :-( Because all the problems, all the industry, can not be tackled all at once. Start somewhere with something, and continue. A step at a time. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#4
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Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 22:34:04 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
wrote: On 20/09/2019 02.33, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 12:30:32 -0400, Paul wrote: Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 09:03:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 19/09/2019 03.12, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 00:14:19 +0200, "Carlos E. R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 23.06, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 15:29:18 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 11.07, Eric Stevens wrote: On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 22:30:33 -0400, "Mayayana" wrote: I don't know what to think, personally. I'm not convinced that we have the capability to really know what's happening or why. But I do know that I used to play hockey on local ponds from late November to March when I was young, and in recent years the ponds rarely even freeze over. So wouldn't it make sense to just avoid actions that might contribute to global warming, just to be on the safe side? What harm is there in increasing solar and wind energy sources, It will lead to horrendously expensive and unreliable power. LOL. There is an island in Spain that has gone a month with only wind and solar power. Just an example. A second example is the Isle of Eigg, near Scotland. "Eigg generates virtually 100% of its electricity using renewable energy." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eigg Indeed. It is early days for that technology, but it shows that it is possible and that we can achieve it, with time and effort. At worst, fuel will last longer, because as sure as death exists and is inevitable, fosil fuel will one day be spent. You should read https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/...-civilization/ LOL. Already proven wrong. That's interesting. By whom? In what respect? Can you give me reference? It depends what you call "modern civilization", though. I live with 2.3 Kw. Most houses here are limited to 3.5 or 4.6. Now, what about a steel mill? A chemical refinery? An aluminium smelter? A cement plant? A paper mill? A railway system? Have you really thought about the problems of supporting such industries with solar or wind? Aluminum smelting - happens to be done mostly in the province with the most hydroelectricity supply. https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/our-natural-...um-facts/20510 "By using mostly hydroelectricity and the latest generation of technologies, Canadian aluminum producers have the lowest carbon footprint compared with the other large producers." I asked you a general question and you answer with a specific example. :-( Because all the problems, all the industry, can not be tackled all at once. Start somewhere with something, and continue. A step at a time. So, you have no general answer to the problems. You can only pick off occasional examples. -- Eric Stevens There are two classes of people. Those who divide people into two classes and those who don't. I belong to the second class. |
#5
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Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100years
On 21/09/2019 04.26, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 22:34:04 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 20/09/2019 02.33, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 12:30:32 -0400, Paul wrote: Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 09:03:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 19/09/2019 03.12, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 00:14:19 +0200, "Carlos E. R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 23.06, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 15:29:18 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 11.07, Eric Stevens wrote: On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 22:30:33 -0400, "Mayayana" wrote: I don't know what to think, personally. I'm not convinced that we have the capability to really know what's happening or why. But I do know that I used to play hockey on local ponds from late November to March when I was young, and in recent years the ponds rarely even freeze over. So wouldn't it make sense to just avoid actions that might contribute to global warming, just to be on the safe side? What harm is there in increasing solar and wind energy sources, It will lead to horrendously expensive and unreliable power. LOL. There is an island in Spain that has gone a month with only wind and solar power. Just an example. A second example is the Isle of Eigg, near Scotland. "Eigg generates virtually 100% of its electricity using renewable energy." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eigg Indeed. It is early days for that technology, but it shows that it is possible and that we can achieve it, with time and effort. At worst, fuel will last longer, because as sure as death exists and is inevitable, fosil fuel will one day be spent. You should read https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/...-civilization/ LOL. Already proven wrong. That's interesting. By whom? In what respect? Can you give me reference? It depends what you call "modern civilization", though. I live with 2.3 Kw. Most houses here are limited to 3.5 or 4.6. Now, what about a steel mill? A chemical refinery? An aluminium smelter? A cement plant? A paper mill? A railway system? Have you really thought about the problems of supporting such industries with solar or wind? Aluminum smelting - happens to be done mostly in the province with the most hydroelectricity supply. https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/our-natural-...um-facts/20510 "By using mostly hydroelectricity and the latest generation of technologies, Canadian aluminum producers have the lowest carbon footprint compared with the other large producers." I asked you a general question and you answer with a specific example. :-( Because all the problems, all the industry, can not be tackled all at once. Start somewhere with something, and continue. A step at a time. So, you have no general answer to the problems. You can only pick off occasional examples. And you refuse to solve a part of the problem just because it does not solve it all. Instead of doing what we can NOW. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#6
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Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years
"Carlos E.R." wrote
| So, you have no general answer to the problems. You can only pick off | occasional examples. | | | And you refuse to solve a part of the problem just because it does not | solve it all. Instead of doing what we can NOW. | That's a bit harsh. He intends to help by having meetings in official offices, primarlily located in the back areas of diners, at local bars, at donut shop counters, and in fraternal organizations known as Rotary Club or VFW. There the experts will discuss the issue in highly technical language until all participants are, as the saying goes, "red in the face". Acting on such a complex issue would likely be reckless at this point, until we have full reports from the committees set up at Ed's Bar and Grill and from the special task force meeting at Masonic Temples and Knights of Colombus halls across the land. We need to let the experts do their work. |
#7
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Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over thelast 100 years
Eric Stevens wrote:
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 22:34:04 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 20/09/2019 02.33, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 12:30:32 -0400, Paul wrote: Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 09:03:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 19/09/2019 03.12, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 00:14:19 +0200, "Carlos E. R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 23.06, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 15:29:18 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 11.07, Eric Stevens wrote: On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 22:30:33 -0400, "Mayayana" wrote: I don't know what to think, personally. I'm not convinced that we have the capability to really know what's happening or why. But I do know that I used to play hockey on local ponds from late November to March when I was young, and in recent years the ponds rarely even freeze over. So wouldn't it make sense to just avoid actions that might contribute to global warming, just to be on the safe side? What harm is there in increasing solar and wind energy sources, It will lead to horrendously expensive and unreliable power. LOL. There is an island in Spain that has gone a month with only wind and solar power. Just an example. A second example is the Isle of Eigg, near Scotland. "Eigg generates virtually 100% of its electricity using renewable energy." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eigg Indeed. It is early days for that technology, but it shows that it is possible and that we can achieve it, with time and effort. At worst, fuel will last longer, because as sure as death exists and is inevitable, fosil fuel will one day be spent. You should read https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/...-civilization/ LOL. Already proven wrong. That's interesting. By whom? In what respect? Can you give me reference? It depends what you call "modern civilization", though. I live with 2.3 Kw. Most houses here are limited to 3.5 or 4.6. Now, what about a steel mill? A chemical refinery? An aluminium smelter? A cement plant? A paper mill? A railway system? Have you really thought about the problems of supporting such industries with solar or wind? Aluminum smelting - happens to be done mostly in the province with the most hydroelectricity supply. https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/our-natural-...um-facts/20510 "By using mostly hydroelectricity and the latest generation of technologies, Canadian aluminum producers have the lowest carbon footprint compared with the other large producers." I asked you a general question and you answer with a specific example. :-( Because all the problems, all the industry, can not be tackled all at once. Start somewhere with something, and continue. A step at a time. So, you have no general answer to the problems. You can only pick off occasional examples. There is a general answer: reduce CO2 emissions. There are multiple solutions required, however. Each industry has its own issues; energy, transport, farming and industry. As Carlos says pick one and work the problem. Rinse and repeat. |
#8
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Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years
On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 12:14:39 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
wrote: On 21/09/2019 04.26, Eric Stevens wrote: On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 22:34:04 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 20/09/2019 02.33, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 12:30:32 -0400, Paul wrote: Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 09:03:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 19/09/2019 03.12, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 00:14:19 +0200, "Carlos E. R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 23.06, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 15:29:18 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 11.07, Eric Stevens wrote: On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 22:30:33 -0400, "Mayayana" wrote: I don't know what to think, personally. I'm not convinced that we have the capability to really know what's happening or why. But I do know that I used to play hockey on local ponds from late November to March when I was young, and in recent years the ponds rarely even freeze over. So wouldn't it make sense to just avoid actions that might contribute to global warming, just to be on the safe side? What harm is there in increasing solar and wind energy sources, It will lead to horrendously expensive and unreliable power. LOL. There is an island in Spain that has gone a month with only wind and solar power. Just an example. A second example is the Isle of Eigg, near Scotland. "Eigg generates virtually 100% of its electricity using renewable energy." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eigg Indeed. It is early days for that technology, but it shows that it is possible and that we can achieve it, with time and effort. At worst, fuel will last longer, because as sure as death exists and is inevitable, fosil fuel will one day be spent. You should read https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/...-civilization/ LOL. Already proven wrong. That's interesting. By whom? In what respect? Can you give me reference? It depends what you call "modern civilization", though. I live with 2.3 Kw. Most houses here are limited to 3.5 or 4.6. Now, what about a steel mill? A chemical refinery? An aluminium smelter? A cement plant? A paper mill? A railway system? Have you really thought about the problems of supporting such industries with solar or wind? Aluminum smelting - happens to be done mostly in the province with the most hydroelectricity supply. https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/our-natural-...um-facts/20510 "By using mostly hydroelectricity and the latest generation of technologies, Canadian aluminum producers have the lowest carbon footprint compared with the other large producers." I asked you a general question and you answer with a specific example. :-( Because all the problems, all the industry, can not be tackled all at once. Start somewhere with something, and continue. A step at a time. So, you have no general answer to the problems. You can only pick off occasional examples. And you refuse to solve a part of the problem just because it does not solve it all. Instead of doing what we can NOW. No. Like you I want to solve the problem but like you I recognise that what is needed is a solution of broad aplicability which wind and solar are not. -- Eric Stevens There are two classes of people. Those who divide people into two classes and those who don't. I belong to the second class. |
#9
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Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years
On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 13:17:31 -0000 (UTC), Chris
wrote: Eric Stevens wrote: On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 22:34:04 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 20/09/2019 02.33, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 12:30:32 -0400, Paul wrote: Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 09:03:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 19/09/2019 03.12, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 00:14:19 +0200, "Carlos E. R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 23.06, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 15:29:18 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 11.07, Eric Stevens wrote: On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 22:30:33 -0400, "Mayayana" wrote: I don't know what to think, personally. I'm not convinced that we have the capability to really know what's happening or why. But I do know that I used to play hockey on local ponds from late November to March when I was young, and in recent years the ponds rarely even freeze over. So wouldn't it make sense to just avoid actions that might contribute to global warming, just to be on the safe side? What harm is there in increasing solar and wind energy sources, It will lead to horrendously expensive and unreliable power. LOL. There is an island in Spain that has gone a month with only wind and solar power. Just an example. A second example is the Isle of Eigg, near Scotland. "Eigg generates virtually 100% of its electricity using renewable energy." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eigg Indeed. It is early days for that technology, but it shows that it is possible and that we can achieve it, with time and effort. At worst, fuel will last longer, because as sure as death exists and is inevitable, fosil fuel will one day be spent. You should read https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/...-civilization/ LOL. Already proven wrong. That's interesting. By whom? In what respect? Can you give me reference? It depends what you call "modern civilization", though. I live with 2.3 Kw. Most houses here are limited to 3.5 or 4.6. Now, what about a steel mill? A chemical refinery? An aluminium smelter? A cement plant? A paper mill? A railway system? Have you really thought about the problems of supporting such industries with solar or wind? Aluminum smelting - happens to be done mostly in the province with the most hydroelectricity supply. https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/our-natural-...um-facts/20510 "By using mostly hydroelectricity and the latest generation of technologies, Canadian aluminum producers have the lowest carbon footprint compared with the other large producers." I asked you a general question and you answer with a specific example. :-( Because all the problems, all the industry, can not be tackled all at once. Start somewhere with something, and continue. A step at a time. So, you have no general answer to the problems. You can only pick off occasional examples. There is a general answer: reduce CO2 emissions. There are multiple solutions required, however. Each industry has its own issues; energy, transport, farming and industry. As Carlos says pick one and work the problem. Rinse and repeat. We will never eliminate the CO2 emissions inherent in chemical processes. Some chemical processes cannot be avoided, including the deoxidation of iron ore and the making of cement. The generation of power is something e should tackle but the present enthusiasm for wind and solar is in the process of failing, just as engineers predicted. We are wasting time and money chasing chimeras. -- Eric Stevens There are two classes of people. Those who divide people into two classes and those who don't. I belong to the second class. |
#10
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Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100years
Eric Stevens wrote:
On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 12:14:39 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 21/09/2019 04.26, Eric Stevens wrote: On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 22:34:04 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 20/09/2019 02.33, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 12:30:32 -0400, Paul wrote: Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 09:03:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 19/09/2019 03.12, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 00:14:19 +0200, "Carlos E. R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 23.06, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 15:29:18 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 11.07, Eric Stevens wrote: On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 22:30:33 -0400, "Mayayana" wrote: I don't know what to think, personally. I'm not convinced that we have the capability to really know what's happening or why. But I do know that I used to play hockey on local ponds from late November to March when I was young, and in recent years the ponds rarely even freeze over. So wouldn't it make sense to just avoid actions that might contribute to global warming, just to be on the safe side? What harm is there in increasing solar and wind energy sources, It will lead to horrendously expensive and unreliable power. LOL. There is an island in Spain that has gone a month with only wind and solar power. Just an example. A second example is the Isle of Eigg, near Scotland. "Eigg generates virtually 100% of its electricity using renewable energy." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eigg Indeed. It is early days for that technology, but it shows that it is possible and that we can achieve it, with time and effort. At worst, fuel will last longer, because as sure as death exists and is inevitable, fosil fuel will one day be spent. You should read https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/...-civilization/ LOL. Already proven wrong. That's interesting. By whom? In what respect? Can you give me reference? It depends what you call "modern civilization", though. I live with 2.3 Kw. Most houses here are limited to 3.5 or 4.6. Now, what about a steel mill? A chemical refinery? An aluminium smelter? A cement plant? A paper mill? A railway system? Have you really thought about the problems of supporting such industries with solar or wind? Aluminum smelting - happens to be done mostly in the province with the most hydroelectricity supply. https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/our-natural-...um-facts/20510 "By using mostly hydroelectricity and the latest generation of technologies, Canadian aluminum producers have the lowest carbon footprint compared with the other large producers." I asked you a general question and you answer with a specific example. :-( Because all the problems, all the industry, can not be tackled all at once. Start somewhere with something, and continue. A step at a time. So, you have no general answer to the problems. You can only pick off occasional examples. And you refuse to solve a part of the problem just because it does not solve it all. Instead of doing what we can NOW. No. Like you I want to solve the problem but like you I recognise that what is needed is a solution of broad aplicability which wind and solar are not. This must be why I've seen wind turbine blades being transported down our highway through town. Someone thinks enough about this technology, to be installing it now. It's not just something I've seen in Google, I've seen components being transported on the road here. And they're huge. Moving just a single blade is a challenge. And it's price-driven. There are companies in long term supply contracts, that are behind these installations. And the prices are better than competing sources. This makes it "up to the power company", as to what percentage of the basket of energy sources, should be each type. I can't find evidence of solar, to nearly the same extent. There might be a few private installations, using the roof as a convenient mounting area. But not large "farms". If they're doing that here, I haven't seen pictures or news stories about it. But wind stories keep showing up. Some areas on the continent, have better weather conditions for solar (more cloudless days). There are some housing developments, with solar water heating, but that's a different usage of solar (the whole roof on the sunny side is covered). Paul |
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Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100years
On 22/09/2019 07.38, Paul wrote:
Eric Stevens wrote: On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 12:14:39 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 21/09/2019 04.26, Eric Stevens wrote: On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 22:34:04 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 20/09/2019 02.33, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 12:30:32 -0400, Paul wrote: Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 09:03:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 19/09/2019 03.12, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 00:14:19 +0200, "Carlos E. R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 23.06, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 15:29:18 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 11.07, Eric Stevens wrote: On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 22:30:33 -0400, "Mayayana" wrote: Â*I don't know what to think, personally. I'm not convinced that we have the capability to really know what's happening or why. But I do know that I used to play hockey on local ponds from late November to March when I was young, and in recent years the ponds rarely even freeze over. Â*So wouldn't it make sense to just avoid actions that might contribute to global warming, just to be on the safe side? What harm is there in increasing solar and wind energy sources, It will lead to horrendously expensive and unreliable power. LOL. There is an island in Spain that has gone a month with only wind and solar power. Just an example. A second example is the Isle of Eigg, near Scotland. "Eigg generates virtually 100% of its electricity using renewable energy."Â* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eigg Indeed. It is early days for that technology, but it shows that it is possible and that we can achieve it, with time and effort. At worst, fuel will last longer, because as sure as death exists and is inevitable, fosil fuel will one day be spent. You should read https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/...-civilization/ LOL. Already proven wrong. That's interesting. By whom? In what respect? Can you give me reference? It depends what you call "modern civilization", though. I live with 2.3 Kw. Most houses here are limited to 3.5 or 4.6. Now, what about a steel mill? A chemical refinery? An aluminium smelter? A cement plant? A paper mill? A railway system? Have you really thought about the problems of supporting such industries with solar or wind? Aluminum smelting - happens to be done mostly in the province with the most hydroelectricity supply. https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/our-natural-...um-facts/20510 Â*Â*Â* "By using mostly hydroelectricity and the latest generation of Â*Â*Â*Â* technologies, Canadian aluminum producers have the lowest carbon Â*Â*Â*Â* footprint compared with the other large producers." I asked you a general question and you answer with a specific example. :-( Because all the problems, all the industry, can not be tackled all at once. Start somewhere with something, and continue. A step at a time. So, you have no general answer to the problems. You can only pick off occasional examples. And you refuse to solve a part of the problem just because it does not solve it all. Instead of doing what we can NOW. No. Like you I want to solve the problem but like you I recognise that what is needed is a solution of broad aplicability which wind and solar are not. They are not intended to be and they do not need to be. With a mix of sources they'll become a solution, as proved in some islands and other isolated places. This must be why I've seen wind turbine blades being transported down our highway through town. Someone thinks enough about this technology, to be installing it now. It's not just something I've seen in Google, I've seen components being transported on the road here. And they're huge. Moving just a single blade is a challenge. Right. Similarly, I have seen then often while driving, and I see them installed. And it's price-driven. There are companies in long term supply contracts, that are behind these installations. And the prices are better than competing sources. This makes it "up to the power company", as to what percentage of the basket of energy sources, should be each type. I can't find evidence of solar, to nearly the same extent. There might be a few private installations, using the roof as a convenient mounting area. But not large "farms". If they're doing that here, I haven't seen pictures or news stories about it. But wind stories keep showing up. Some areas on the continent, have better weather conditions for solar (more cloudless days). There are huge solar farms here. One was connected recently: https://elperiodicodelaenergia.com/espana-posee-la-mayor-planta-fotovoltaica-de-europa-northleaf-conecta-la-mula-de-494-mw-de-potencia-en-murcia/ The energy newspaper *Spain has the largest photovoltaic plant in Europe: Northleaf connects 494 MW Mula in Murcia* The largest photovoltaic plant in Europe is already a reality, and it is Spanish. La Mula is the Murcian municipality that can pull out its chest and say that it has the largest photovoltaic plant in the Old Continent and one of the most powerful in the world (it would enter the TOP 20). The Northleaf fund has already connected the Mula plant of 494 MW of power, according to this newspaper. The plant, built by ACS Group's Cobra, was connected last July, and is the main culprit in the recent record-breaking photovoltaic production in Spain. This is one of the photovoltaic plants that ACS started up after winning the contract for 1,550 MW of photovoltaic solar energy at the auction held in July 2017. (translated with DeepL) There are some housing developments, with solar water heating, but that's a different usage of solar (the whole roof on the sunny side is covered). Sanitary hot water can be solar powered since long ago, that's a method that I often see applied he the structures are easy to see from the road or streets. Solar electricity is more expensive, so it is slowly growing. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
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Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100years
On 22/09/2019 05.12, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 13:17:31 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: Eric Stevens wrote: On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 22:34:04 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 20/09/2019 02.33, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 12:30:32 -0400, Paul wrote: Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 09:03:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 19/09/2019 03.12, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 00:14:19 +0200, "Carlos E. R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 23.06, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 15:29:18 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 11.07, Eric Stevens wrote: On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 22:30:33 -0400, "Mayayana" wrote: I don't know what to think, personally. I'm not convinced that we have the capability to really know what's happening or why. But I do know that I used to play hockey on local ponds from late November to March when I was young, and in recent years the ponds rarely even freeze over. So wouldn't it make sense to just avoid actions that might contribute to global warming, just to be on the safe side? What harm is there in increasing solar and wind energy sources, It will lead to horrendously expensive and unreliable power. LOL. There is an island in Spain that has gone a month with only wind and solar power. Just an example. A second example is the Isle of Eigg, near Scotland. "Eigg generates virtually 100% of its electricity using renewable energy." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eigg Indeed. It is early days for that technology, but it shows that it is possible and that we can achieve it, with time and effort. At worst, fuel will last longer, because as sure as death exists and is inevitable, fosil fuel will one day be spent. You should read https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/...-civilization/ LOL. Already proven wrong. That's interesting. By whom? In what respect? Can you give me reference? It depends what you call "modern civilization", though. I live with 2.3 Kw. Most houses here are limited to 3.5 or 4.6. Now, what about a steel mill? A chemical refinery? An aluminium smelter? A cement plant? A paper mill? A railway system? Have you really thought about the problems of supporting such industries with solar or wind? Aluminum smelting - happens to be done mostly in the province with the most hydroelectricity supply. https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/our-natural-...um-facts/20510 "By using mostly hydroelectricity and the latest generation of technologies, Canadian aluminum producers have the lowest carbon footprint compared with the other large producers." I asked you a general question and you answer with a specific example. :-( Because all the problems, all the industry, can not be tackled all at once. Start somewhere with something, and continue. A step at a time. So, you have no general answer to the problems. You can only pick off occasional examples. There is a general answer: reduce CO2 emissions. There are multiple solutions required, however. Each industry has its own issues; energy, transport, farming and industry. As Carlos says pick one and work the problem. Rinse and repeat. We will never eliminate the CO2 emissions inherent in chemical processes. Some chemical processes cannot be avoided, including the deoxidation of iron ore and the making of cement. The generation of power is something e should tackle but the present enthusiasm for wind and solar is in the process of failing, just as engineers predicted. We are wasting time and money chasing chimeras. False. It is growing hugely here. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
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Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years
"Eric Stevens" wrote
| No. Like you I want to solve the problem but like you I recognise that | what is needed is a solution of broad aplicability which wind and | solar are not. | There was a piece at slashdot this week about wind power plans along the US east coast: https://news.slashdot.org/story/19/0...rgy-revolution And it links to an article about a lobbyist-infested federal gov't trying to hold things up: https://www.wbur.org/earthwhile/2019...-wind-in-doubt But the eventual plans are for energy from wind far in excess of what we've had from nuclear, and without the time-limited usefulness or grave dangers of a nuclear power plant. The point with wind and solar is that the energy is already there in virtually unlimited quantities. We just have to get it into our power grid. And nearly every location on Earth can use one or both methods. I don't know how you could have a solution of more "broad applicability". Maybe 10,000 irritated kangaroos jumping up and down on pistons? Unfortunately, in the US we don't have so many kangaroos. But we do have sunlight and wind. (Though I don't doubt that you have a link proving kangaroos are a better solution than "hippie power".) .... And we have waves. I'm surprised there hasn't been more action toward setting up "tidal turbines". With all of those options the power is unlimited. Only maintenance would be needed. Unfortunately, vested interests like utility companies and oil companies try as much as they can to hold things up. One of the tricks in the US is a widespread effort to ban people from being able to sell power back to the utility. If you have solar cells on your roof that generate during the day then you might actually be able to make money from them. But if you can't sell back the excess then most of that power will likely be wasted during the day and you'll still have to buy from the local power company at night. That kind of problem has slowed down what you call "applicability" and made investment more risky. Though personally I'm not as impressed with solar. It requires high-tech equipment that will likely be outdated on a regular basis. |
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Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over thelast 100 years
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 22/09/2019 05.12, Eric Stevens wrote: On Sat, 21 Sep 2019 13:17:31 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote: Eric Stevens wrote: On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 22:34:04 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 20/09/2019 02.33, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 12:30:32 -0400, Paul wrote: Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 09:03:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 19/09/2019 03.12, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 00:14:19 +0200, "Carlos E. R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 23.06, Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 15:29:18 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 18/09/2019 11.07, Eric Stevens wrote: On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 22:30:33 -0400, "Mayayana" wrote: I don't know what to think, personally. I'm not convinced that we have the capability to really know what's happening or why. But I do know that I used to play hockey on local ponds from late November to March when I was young, and in recent years the ponds rarely even freeze over. So wouldn't it make sense to just avoid actions that might contribute to global warming, just to be on the safe side? What harm is there in increasing solar and wind energy sources, It will lead to horrendously expensive and unreliable power. LOL. There is an island in Spain that has gone a month with only wind and solar power. Just an example. A second example is the Isle of Eigg, near Scotland. "Eigg generates virtually 100% of its electricity using renewable energy." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eigg Indeed. It is early days for that technology, but it shows that it is possible and that we can achieve it, with time and effort. At worst, fuel will last longer, because as sure as death exists and is inevitable, fosil fuel will one day be spent. You should read https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/...-civilization/ LOL. Already proven wrong. That's interesting. By whom? In what respect? Can you give me reference? It depends what you call "modern civilization", though. I live with 2.3 Kw. Most houses here are limited to 3.5 or 4.6. Now, what about a steel mill? A chemical refinery? An aluminium smelter? A cement plant? A paper mill? A railway system? Have you really thought about the problems of supporting such industries with solar or wind? Aluminum smelting - happens to be done mostly in the province with the most hydroelectricity supply. https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/our-natural-...um-facts/20510 "By using mostly hydroelectricity and the latest generation of technologies, Canadian aluminum producers have the lowest carbon footprint compared with the other large producers." I asked you a general question and you answer with a specific example. :-( Because all the problems, all the industry, can not be tackled all at once. Start somewhere with something, and continue. A step at a time. So, you have no general answer to the problems. You can only pick off occasional examples. There is a general answer: reduce CO2 emissions. There are multiple solutions required, however. Each industry has its own issues; energy, transport, farming and industry. As Carlos says pick one and work the problem. Rinse and repeat. We will never eliminate the CO2 emissions inherent in chemical processes. Some chemical processes cannot be avoided, including the deoxidation of iron ore and the making of cement. The generation of power is something e should tackle but the present enthusiasm for wind and solar is in the process of failing, just as engineers predicted. We are wasting time and money chasing chimeras. False. It is growing hugely here. And here. In sunny countries and in windy countries they are definitely part of the answer. In the UK we are on track to hit 2030 carbon target, we've halved the carbon intensity of energy production and carbon neutral energy sources make up almost 50% of our energy production. Thus, promoting electric vehicles is greener than petrol or diesel cars. |
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Maximal temperatures in the US have DECREASED over the last 100 years
"Chris" wrote
| and solar is in the process of failing, just as engineers predicted. | We are wasting time and money chasing chimeras. | | | False. It is growing hugely here. | | And here. | I heard that in the Netherlands they're even using wind power to grind wheat into flour. What'll they think of next?! |
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