"Sonnics" hard drives?

Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 20:15:04 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

I've noticed lots of people selling the Seagate drives a "BarraCuda";
why the capital C?
CamelCase, and the same as Seagate uses to name their family lines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_case
Some folks want to use one word instead of two (helps with searches).
In this case, Seagate probably didn't like using Barra Cuda. Cuda could
be CUDA (Compute Unified Device Architecture) used in nVidia GPUs (aka
CUDA cores), and would get into a trademarking conflict. Cuda, short
for Barracuda, was also a late 60's Plymouth muscle car, and Barra Cuda
could be miscontrued to mean some sub-model of the 'Cuda model.

This is a barracuda (a ferrocious ray-finned fish species):
https://www.hatchmag.com/sites/defau...e/IMG_2720.JPG

This is a Barracuda (uppercased for the Plymouth model name):
https://www.musclecarfacts.com/wp-co...-Barracuda.jpg

This is Seagate's BarraCuda (camel-cased for an HDD product line):
https://static.bhphoto.com/images/im...30_1345917.jpg

Are you seeing BarraCuda in that last image? I'm only seeing Barracuda and
BARRACUDA, no sign of BarraCuda.


Look at the photo here. You'll find a good deal of CamelCase in the advert.

https://www.amazon.ca/Seagate-BarraC.../dp/B01IEKG402

And that drive is very likely to be the Sonnics 2TB one.
It has no breather hole, just like the Sonnics. And the
indentation in the upper right, is the same. It's possible
this drive is a 3 platter one (it's relatively old,
but the 2TB model happens to be a keeper). Other devices advertised
on the same page, are likely to be of a different generation.

I don't know what they did with the breather. That's not
a Helium drive, as it's too cheap for that. And the covers
are wrong for Helium. For the breather to work, the hepafilter
has an adhesive surface and needs a good surface to work on.
You can't glue it to just anything, and the sheet metal
is likely to be pretty clean and flat.

If you could remove breathers, they would have done
that long ago. It must be "hiding".

You sure there is no breather hole with the cinter filter? Could be it
is under the screwed on metal plate that covers the PCB?

https://90a1c75758623581b3f8-5c119c3...front_zoom.jpg
https://www.donordrives.at/images/st...t/unten988.jpg

What's that donut (raised metal with a hole and white HEPA insert
(perhaps atop a chemical absorber or cinter layer)? With HEPA filters
working down to 0.3 microns or 300 nanometers, water molecules (0.275
nanometers) are a thousand times too small to get filtered out. Neither
the HEPA or cinter filters keep out gases.

With lowered pressure, the heads won't fly as high over the flatters, so
there is a much greater chance of head crash. While helium drives are
sealed, so as not to lose the helium, there are also pressurized drives
that are usable at high altitudes (over 10,000 ft). The head requires a
pad of cushioned air to keep the heads off the platter, but at high
altitudes the air is too thin. Seagate has their EE25/EE25.2 line of
drives for high altitudes (up to 18,100 feet). Those still have a
breather hole, so they cannot be used at higher altitudes, like out in
space (the internal air would leak out leaving nothing to get the heads
to /fly/ above the platters). I supposed instead of pressurizing a
sealed HDD, it could be designed with a hard plated surface and tough
heads, so the heads do ride on the platters; however, I suspect they
wouldn't be near as high a density because the plating thickness would
keep the heads farther away.

Toshiba introduced glass platters back in 1990 first used in laptop HDDs
due to better shock survival, and other makers starting to follow; see
https://tech.nikkeibp.co.jp/dm/atcle...5mk/090201556/. Open up
an overshocked one, see all the shards, and the glass bits and dust
scattered inside (http://tinyurl.com/y2lzpeba). Glass is pretty hard.
After all, the best smartphone screen protectors are MOH 9 glass. Your
keys and coins won't scratch it, but the quartz (sandy) lint in your
pocket will. Since the heads are metal, and since metal has a lower MOH
than glass, the heads won't scratch the glass platter.

Zinc: MOH 2.5 - 3
Iron, nickel: MOH 4
Steel: MOH 4 - 4.5
Glass: MOH 5.5
Quartz: MOH 7
Diamond: MOH 10

This HDD is neither a helium or pressurized drive. It should have a
breather hole somewhere.

VanguardLH wrote:
Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 20:15:04 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

I've noticed lots of people selling the Seagate drives a "BarraCuda";
why the capital C?
CamelCase, and the same as Seagate uses to name their family lines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_case
Some folks want to use one word instead of two (helps with searches).
In this case, Seagate probably didn't like using Barra Cuda. Cuda could
be CUDA (Compute Unified Device Architecture) used in nVidia GPUs (aka
CUDA cores), and would get into a trademarking conflict. Cuda, short
for Barracuda, was also a late 60's Plymouth muscle car, and Barra Cuda
could be miscontrued to mean some sub-model of the 'Cuda model.

This is a barracuda (a ferrocious ray-finned fish species):
https://www.hatchmag.com/sites/defau...e/IMG_2720.JPG

This is a Barracuda (uppercased for the Plymouth model name):
https://www.musclecarfacts.com/wp-co...-Barracuda.jpg

This is Seagate's BarraCuda (camel-cased for an HDD product line):
https://static.bhphoto.com/images/im...30_1345917.jpg
Are you seeing BarraCuda in that last image? I'm only seeing Barracuda and
BARRACUDA, no sign of BarraCuda.

Look at the photo here. You'll find a good deal of CamelCase in the advert.

https://www.amazon.ca/Seagate-BarraC.../dp/B01IEKG402

And that drive is very likely to be the Sonnics 2TB one.
It has no breather hole, just like the Sonnics. And the
indentation in the upper right, is the same. It's possible
this drive is a 3 platter one (it's relatively old,
but the 2TB model happens to be a keeper). Other devices advertised
on the same page, are likely to be of a different generation.

I don't know what they did with the breather. That's not
a Helium drive, as it's too cheap for that. And the covers
are wrong for Helium. For the breather to work, the hepafilter
has an adhesive surface and needs a good surface to work on.
You can't glue it to just anything, and the sheet metal
is likely to be pretty clean and flat.

If you could remove breathers, they would have done
that long ago. It must be "hiding".

You sure there is no breather hole with the cinter filter? Could be it
is under the screwed on metal plate that covers the PCB?

https://90a1c75758623581b3f8-5c119c3...front_zoom.jpg
https://www.donordrives.at/images/st...t/unten988.jpg

What's that donut (raised metal with a hole and white HEPA insert
(perhaps atop a chemical absorber or cinter layer)? With HEPA filters
working down to 0.3 microns or 300 nanometers, water molecules (0.275
nanometers) are a thousand times too small to get filtered out. Neither
the HEPA or cinter filters keep out gases.

With lowered pressure, the heads won't fly as high over the flatters, so
there is a much greater chance of head crash. While helium drives are
sealed, so as not to lose the helium, there are also pressurized drives
that are usable at high altitudes (over 10,000 ft). The head requires a
pad of cushioned air to keep the heads off the platter, but at high
altitudes the air is too thin. Seagate has their EE25/EE25.2 line of
drives for high altitudes (up to 18,100 feet). Those still have a
breather hole, so they cannot be used at higher altitudes, like out in
space (the internal air would leak out leaving nothing to get the heads
to /fly/ above the platters). I supposed instead of pressurizing a
sealed HDD, it could be designed with a hard plated surface and tough
heads, so the heads do ride on the platters; however, I suspect they
wouldn't be near as high a density because the plating thickness would
keep the heads farther away.

Toshiba introduced glass platters back in 1990 first used in laptop HDDs
due to better shock survival, and other makers starting to follow; see
https://tech.nikkeibp.co.jp/dm/atcle...5mk/090201556/. Open up
an overshocked one, see all the shards, and the glass bits and dust
scattered inside (http://tinyurl.com/y2lzpeba). Glass is pretty hard.
After all, the best smartphone screen protectors are MOH 9 glass. Your
keys and coins won't scratch it, but the quartz (sandy) lint in your
pocket will. Since the heads are metal, and since metal has a lower MOH
than glass, the heads won't scratch the glass platter.

Zinc: MOH 2.5 - 3
Iron, nickel: MOH 4
Steel: MOH 4 - 4.5
Glass: MOH 5.5
Quartz: MOH 7
Diamond: MOH 10

This HDD is neither a helium or pressurized drive. It should have a
breather hole somewhere.

The first drive I picked up here, had the answer for me. Like
you suggest, that raised donut of metal on the bottom of the
HDA, with the "white" showing in the drilled center, is
the breather hole. The WDC design, printed right in the
metal is a warning to "not cover the hole". That warning,
is my proof it's a breather. The Seagate drive with
one of those, the hole is not labeled like that.

Somewhere around here, I have a datasheet for a breather hole.
And it says that moisture resistance (not "proof") is provided
by making the path the air follows, a long one. But moisture
does get into the HDA. And the proof of this, is the slight
tendency for disk failures to happen during periods of
high humidity in the computer room. The inside of the HDA
doesn't contain any desiccant pack. There is a filter pack
in there, to catch debris off to the side of the platter.

The flying height (according to some patents), is now on
the order of 3nm. But that's still not "contact". The head
has two flying heights - the head is lowered below the sled
on writes, so the gap is smaller. The head is modulated
side to side, with a piezoelectric (as part of servo tracking).
The head moves up and down, by means of a "heater" that
is switched on just before a write. On Enterprise drives,
a "high fly" error (drive bumped while writing), is detected
by noting an anomalous current flow for the write current.

HGST did try an experiment where the head stays in contact
with the platter (nominal zero flying height), and the
heads got ground off in 30 days. So no, at the moment,
contact is not an option. And I think that's a phenomenally
good result :-)

Paul

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 20:15:04 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

I've noticed lots of people selling the Seagate drives a "BarraCuda";
why the capital C?

CamelCase, and the same as Seagate uses to name their family lines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_case
Some folks want to use one word instead of two (helps with searches).
In this case, Seagate probably didn't like using Barra Cuda. Cuda could
be CUDA (Compute Unified Device Architecture) used in nVidia GPUs (aka
CUDA cores), and would get into a trademarking conflict. Cuda, short
for Barracuda, was also a late 60's Plymouth muscle car, and Barra Cuda
could be miscontrued to mean some sub-model of the 'Cuda model.

I know about CamelCase, and also the shark (or whatever it is). I think
I also knew about the 'cuda car, though I'd forgotten about that. I
assumed Seagate were naming their product after the marine animal.
[]
This is Seagate's BarraCuda (camel-cased for an HDD product line):
https://static.bhphoto.com/images/im...30_1345917.jpg

Are you seeing BarraCuda in that last image? I'm only seeing Barracuda and
BARRACUDA, no sign of BarraCuda.

That was my point: I suspect people are using CamelCase wrongly in this
case, and Seagate never have - and don't use the word Barra. (Which
AFAIK isn't a word, just the name of an island in Scotland.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

sometimes the best way to face the music is dance.
- Andrew Collins, in RT 2017/2/11-17

In message , Paul
writes:
VanguardLH wrote:
Paul wrote:

[]
Look at the photo here. You'll find a good deal of CamelCase in the advert.


https://www.amazon.ca/Seagate-BarraC...l-ST2000DM006/
dp/B01IEKG402

And that drive is very likely to be the Sonnics 2TB one.

I suspect the Sonnics one _is_ a Seagate, because in the puff text in
their listing, they've slipped and left in a mention of "Seagate
technology".
[VERY interesting discussion of breather holes, moisture, pressure,
high-altitude, and flying heights snipped]
HGST did try an experiment where the head stays in contact
with the platter (nominal zero flying height), and the
heads got ground off in 30 days. So no, at the moment,
contact is not an option. And I think that's a phenomenally
good result :-)

Paul

If you mean you think ruling out contact's a good idea, I _think_ I
agree. Though if someone _can_ crack the problem, it has great
potential.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

sometimes the best way to face the music is dance.
- Andrew Collins, in RT 2017/2/11-17

Paul wrote:

Somewhere around here, I have a datasheet for a breather hole.
And it says that moisture resistance (not "proof") is provided
by making the path the air follows, a long one. But moisture
does get into the HDA. And the proof of this, is the slight
tendency for disk failures to happen during periods of
high humidity in the computer room. The inside of the HDA
doesn't contain any desiccant pack. There is a filter pack
in there, to catch debris off to the side of the platter.

That why, I think, a cinter filter is used. There is no direct path.
The airflow has to bounce all over, and each time any particular smaller
than the cinter will natively filter will get impacted and ended up
filtered out. Water won't travel through a cinter filter but wholly
absorbed water vapor will, but at a very low migration speed.

Oxygen (O2) molecule: 152 pm
Nitrogen: 120 pm
Carbon dioxide: 232 pm
Water molecule: 275 pm

If air (oxygen) is getting through, so is the water vapor, but the rate
of gas transfer is pretty slow yet apparently sufficient to take of
equalizing the pressure. I can't see how a single H20 molecule is going
to care about how many times it bounces in a path through the cinter
filter, but a larger multiple molecule (they bond on the oxygen molecule
because the hydrogen atoms are asymmetric) would probably have problems.

HGST did try an experiment where the head stays in contact
with the platter (nominal zero flying height), and the
heads got ground off in 30 days. So no, at the moment,
contact is not an option. And I think that's a phenomenally
good result :-)

Metal has a lower MOH than does glass. They've already come up with
glass platters. Now if they could dope a glass head for electrical
field or magnetic detection and have glass against glass then there
would be no scratching. Don't know how long a glass head against a
glass platter would last. Glass doesn't warp at high RPM as does
aluminum. Wonder what the coefficient of friction would be for glass
against glass.

Peculiarly, friction increases with smoother materials. Intuitively we
think of friction as the force of interaction between small surface
asperities, but that's false. Friction arises from the Van-der-Waal
effect: a force between molecules. Smoother mating surfaces transfer
heat better, but smoother surfaces have higher friction.

Hmm, maybe the heads could "fly" by riding atop a few molecules of
water. Would have to be a sealed drive, though, and pressurized to
ensure the water didn't evaporate into the internal atmosphere. An air
mix wouldn't work as the water would absorb into it. Carbon dioxide
doesn't dissolve too well into water (0.169 solubility at 273K); else,
all those fizzy sodas would go flat sitting on the shelf in the can.
Carbon monoxides dissolves even less in water (0.0028 solubility), but
then I can just see a headline saying "Child dies after opening a
hundred CO+H20 hard disk cases". CO and H20 are good heat absorbent
gases.

At some point, to make non-flying spinners and get the friction minimal
and heat dissipation sufficient, they'll come up with something that
we'll read about and say "What that hell?". Glass platters with
microscopic grooves holding water with one micro head per groove filled
with CO gas inside?

In message , VanguardLH
writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

I _think_ the IoM counts as part of Britain for postal purposes.
(Possibly the oldest part! Its parliament dates from 9xx - yes, a three
digit year.) But yes, Sonnics does look "well dodgy". (Going by their
prices - which are low - they could be.)

From reviews at Amazon and elsewhere, users that submit reviews after
many months (instead of immediately, so they don't know about longevity)
that have problems said they would've preferred to spend another $15 to
get a known or name-brand product rather than a white label product.

Thanks, useful to know. Do you have a way of filtering the reviews, or
did you just plough through them all? What were the reasons they gave -
presumably failure?
[]
Newegg is pretty good with returns within the return period. You should
know inside the 30-day return period if the item is working or not, so
don't buy, try once, and shelve hoping to use it later, but you should
test many times or place into repeated/continual service before the
return period expires. Newegg sells the Sonnics drives.

Unfortunately, I don't think I have easy access to Newegg in the UK. (I
presume they will sell to me, but shipping costs and delays make it
impractical.) Pity, as on the whole I get the impression (from posts
here) that people are happy with them.

Sonnics 500GB USB3 HDD: $78
https://www.newegg.com/p/1B4-04TU-00...s&cm_re=sonnic
s-_-9SIAE87A325030-_-Product

(Interesting: I get "Sorry, We can't find this Item. Please check your
Item#.")

Notice the ad says "First from Asia". Despite Sonnics listing an IoM
office address, the product comes from elsewhere. That's no unusual;
however, I tend to shy away from any products at Newegg where Newegg
identified it as "First from Asia".

I'm not familiar with the expression "First from" - maybe a difference
between US and UK English? I presume, in this context, it means the
drive is _manufactured_ in Asia, though may be warehoused elsewhere for
sale.

From Newegg, you can get 2TB USB3 HDDs for $59 (where condition = new
and seller = Newegg), so the Sonnics one mentioned above is more than 4
times more expensive. They have a 1TB USB3 HDD for $49: twice the
capacity, not a white label product, and at 64% the price. The 500GB
was the largest Sonnics that Newegg sells. I can get much larger USB
HDDs for the Sonnics price, like the 3TB @ $80 at:

https://www.newegg.com/model-wdbu6y0...0049-000S7?Ite
m=1Z4-0049-000S7

I don't what who be a popular computer e-tailer in your area. I've

Unfortunately, I can't think of one either, really )-:. UK isn't well
served; about our only widespread chain with actual shops is PC
World/Currys, which isn't competitive on price (and on the whole I
wouldn't go there for advice either: Currys, which they merged with a
few years ago, was a fridge/mixer/kettle/vacuum type goods retailer, and
the joint stores still sell such, if that gives you the idea. Not that
it's the staff's fault.) As for online, no-one in particular springs to
mind; we have amazon uk. We used to have a few, such as dabs (and Morgan
for good prices on end-of-line stuff), but most have gone, apart from
very small outfits. (If other UK readers can think of someone large I've
forgotten [or don't know of], please speak up.)

found nothing that would qualify Sonnics products as ruggedized drives
to account for their higher pricing. Sonnics products look like white
label products: nothing special. White label products can be just as
good, but I don't see why Sonnics should command higher or even equal
prices.

I'm looking at ebay, having set ebay's filter to "New" only; there
Sonnics are coming up as _cheaper_ than alternatives, so I'm wondering
if the ones I'm looking at are actually refurbished being sold as new:
several of the sellers there seem to be doing that, even though ebay do
have "manufacturer refurbished" and "seller refurbished" categories.
Most of the others I've looked at, I've managed to find the word
refurbished somewhere in their listing, but I can't actually see it in
Sonnics' listings. Here's an example:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sonnics-1...AL-HARD-DISK-D
RIVE-7200RPM-PC-CCTV-DVR/231988857505?hash=item36039d0aa1:g:Z-IAAOSwwZVcPLrc
or https://bit.ly/2mMVH0u for short. I have the feeling ebay listings
display differently depending on the location of the viewer, so here's
what _I_ see when I look at that one: 1 TB 3.5", New, 26.99 pounds,
postage free; offered with 1 year warranty, though I think that's from
Sonnics rather than the original manufacturer. Says "Manufacturer :
Sonnics1 Year warranty And Come in a Sealed Anti-Static Bag" which is
weaselly - doesn't actually say _clearly_ that they are the
manufacturer. (Also "Warranty : 1 Year Warranty direct Sonnics".) Also
talks about "Perpendicular recording technology" - is that good or bad,
or is it what all HDDs these days use so is like advertising that a car
comes with four wheels? Does mention "Seagate PowerTrim technology",
which makes me think it is indeed a Seagate. (I presume they couldn't
claim that if it wasn't.) I can't _see_ "refurbished" anywhere in the
listing.

They actually seem to have, if anything, a _higher_ rating than most
nearby (in price) sellers on ebay, 99.4%, and based on high numbers:
last 12 months 4,228 positive, 29 neutral, 23 negative. Other sellers in
the same price range (with over 1120 anyway) seem to have between 95.2%
and 98.9%.

The requirement is to replace a 500G (I think) drive that seems to have
died: it's at my friends at the other end of the country, and they've
shown me (via Skype on a 'phone!) that the monitor is showing something
like "drive 0 not responding", so it's either the drive or the
controller/motherboard. (The leads haven't come out.) They've asked me
to get them a drive (if it _is_ the mobo, the drive will still be useful
to them.) It's for a small form-factor Dell, Optiplex 380 I think.
Running W7HP-64 in 8G IIRR.

I'm inclined to get a 1, 1.5, or 2T drive: am I right in thinking that
nobody is actually making 500G ones any more, so any such I find are
likely to be either old stock or refurbished?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

sometimes the best way to face the music is dance.
- Andrew Collins, in RT 2017/2/11-17

In message , VanguardLH
writes:
[]
Oxygen (O2) molecule: 152 pm
Nitrogen: 120 pm
Carbon dioxide: 232 pm
Water molecule: 275 pm

If air (oxygen) is getting through, so is the water vapor, but the rate
[]
Air is mostly nitrogen (-:

(But fascinating discussion, thanks!)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in he this is the war room!" (Dr. Strangelove)

On 2019-09-29 4:34 a.m., VanguardLH wrote:
Paul wrote:

Somewhere around here, I have a datasheet for a breather hole.
And it says that moisture resistance (not "proof") is provided
by making the path the air follows, a long one. But moisture
does get into the HDA. And the proof of this, is the slight
tendency for disk failures to happen during periods of
high humidity in the computer room. The inside of the HDA
doesn't contain any desiccant pack. There is a filter pack
in there, to catch debris off to the side of the platter.

That why, I think, a cinter filter is used. There is no direct path.
The airflow has to bounce all over, and each time any particular smaller
than the cinter will natively filter will get impacted and ended up
filtered out. Water won't travel through a cinter filter but wholly
absorbed water vapor will, but at a very low migration speed.

Oxygen (O2) molecule: 152 pm
Nitrogen: 120 pm
Carbon dioxide: 232 pm
Water molecule: 275 pm

If air (oxygen) is getting through, so is the water vapor, but the rate
of gas transfer is pretty slow yet apparently sufficient to take of
equalizing the pressure. I can't see how a single H20 molecule is going
to care about how many times it bounces in a path through the cinter
filter, but a larger multiple molecule (they bond on the oxygen molecule
because the hydrogen atoms are asymmetric) would probably have problems.

HGST did try an experiment where the head stays in contact
with the platter (nominal zero flying height), and the
heads got ground off in 30 days. So no, at the moment,
contact is not an option. And I think that's a phenomenally
good result :-)

Metal has a lower MOH than does glass. They've already come up with
glass platters. Now if they could dope a glass head for electrical
field or magnetic detection and have glass against glass then there
would be no scratching. Don't know how long a glass head against a
glass platter would last. Glass doesn't warp at high RPM as does
aluminum. Wonder what the coefficient of friction would be for glass
against glass.

Peculiarly, friction increases with smoother materials. Intuitively we
think of friction as the force of interaction between small surface
asperities, but that's false. Friction arises from the Van-der-Waal
effect: a force between molecules. Smoother mating surfaces transfer
heat better, but smoother surfaces have higher friction.

Hmm, maybe the heads could "fly" by riding atop a few molecules of
water. Would have to be a sealed drive, though, and pressurized to
ensure the water didn't evaporate into the internal atmosphere. An air
mix wouldn't work as the water would absorb into it. Carbon dioxide
doesn't dissolve too well into water (0.169 solubility at 273K); else,
all those fizzy sodas would go flat sitting on the shelf in the can.
Carbon monoxides dissolves even less in water (0.0028 solubility), but
then I can just see a headline saying "Child dies after opening a
hundred CO+H20 hard disk cases". CO and H20 are good heat absorbent
gases.

At some point, to make non-flying spinners and get the friction minimal
and heat dissipation sufficient, they'll come up with something that
we'll read about and say "What that hell?". Glass platters with
microscopic grooves holding water with one micro head per groove filled
with CO gas inside?


Mmmmm, think of wringing Jo-blocks.

Rene

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

If you mean you think ruling out contact's a good idea, I _think_ I
agree. Though if someone _can_ crack the problem, it has great
potential.

https://gizmodo.com/how-a-laser-coul...s-fast-5883352
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat...etic_recording
https://blog.seagate.com/craftsman-s...p-forward-now/
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13935...hdd-plans-2019

Haven't seen the HAMR drives in the stores or e-stores yet.

In message , VanguardLH
writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

Thanks, useful to know. Do you have a way of filtering the reviews, or
did you just plough through them all? What were the reasons they gave -
presumably failure?

For the Amazon ad that I found by searching "sonnics 500GB" at
amazon.com, there were only 34 reviews. I saw reviews at other site,
but I didn't plow through all of them at every site, but just remember
the comments in some reviews. Other comments that I remember were the
Sonnics USB drives worked on PCs running Windows but failed on MacOS, or
eventually stopped working on MacOS, would work (somehow get "fixed"
which is unclear since reviewers are often not tech savvy) on PCs, work
for awhile on MacOS again, but fail again, and they would repeat until
whatever process they used no longer worked. However, the overall
rating for the Sonnics USB drives was good.

What I'm after is a basic, 3.5", internal drive.

Sonnics 500GB USB3 HDD: $78
https://www.newegg.com/p/1B4-04TU-00...s&cm_re=sonnic
s-_-9SIAE87A325030-_-Product

(Interesting: I get "Sorry, We can't find this Item. Please check your
Item#.")

My NNTP client (40tude Dialog) doesn't slice apart URLs that are longer
than the configured default physical line length (of 72 characters). As
a crappy form of line wrap, some newsreaders will slice apart a logical
line into multiple physical lines resulting in a broken URL. You sure
you used the entire URL string?

I'm pretty sure I did - I look out for such things. However, as it's a
USB one, I've not pursued it.
[]
rating. It's only 78%. At eBay, for example, I usually stick with
sellers that are 95% or higher (there is always some boob or asshole
buyer that wants the seller to behave like a parent chewing the cost of

I tend to go higher; not sure what figure I use, probably not a fixed
figure. I'd consider 95% rather low for ebay, though.

having kids). However, eBay also lists how many transactions the seller
has made (under that nym), so the more transactions, like thousands
instead of a couple, also weight the seller's rating. Some sellers come
and go, or restart under a new nym, so I also look for how long they've
been selling under a nym. How well have they done over how many
transactions for how long is what I look for. Ratings at Newegg and
Amazon are only based on customer reviews. No idea how long the seller
has been there by that nym, or how many items they have sold.

Yes, I at least look at the number of transactions. There were (are) a
couple of 100% ones in that area, but they're tiny numbers of
transactions - 3 or 2 digits - so I ignore them.
[]
identified it as "First from Asia".

I'm not familiar with the expression "First from" - maybe a difference
[]
Part of Newegg's global marketplace promotion. They trademarked the
phrase (https://trademarks.justia.com/853/89...85389856.html).

Ah, so it's not a US English thing, but a newegg special.
[]
I'm looking at ebay, having set ebay's filter to "New" only; there
Sonnics are coming up as _cheaper_ than alternatives, so I'm wondering
if the ones I'm looking at are actually refurbished being sold as new:
several of the sellers there seem to be doing that, even though ebay do
have "manufacturer refurbished" and "seller refurbished" categories.

Although that happens with white label products onto which a seller may
slap their sticker, I've seen it happen with brand label sales, too.
Sellers will push the definition of refurbished to claim an item is new.
In many cases, all refurbished means is the seller did some minimal
testing of a returned item, it worked for them under their limited test
scenario, they see the returned item as working, and then offer it as
refurbished (and sometimes as new). At worse, refurbish to them just
means repackaging (no testing) of a returned item and reselling it.

Indeed; that's why I avoid "refurbished", at least for HDDs.
("Manufacturer refurbished" is probably truthful, but still means there
are going to be parts that have had use.)
[]
Most of the others I've looked at, I've managed to find the word
refurbished somewhere in their listing, but I can't actually see it in
Sonnics' listings. Here's an example:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sonnics-1...AL-HARD-DISK-D
RIVE-7200RPM-PC-CCTV-DVR/231988857505?hash=item36039d0aa1:g:Z-IAAOSwwZVcPLrc
or https://bit.ly/2mMVH0u for short. I have the feeling ebay listings
display differently depending on the location of the viewer, so here's
what _I_ see when I look at that one: 1 TB 3.5", New, 26.99 pounds,
postage free; offered with 1 year warranty, though I think that's from
Sonnics rather than the original manufacturer. Says "Manufacturer :
[]
talks about "Perpendicular recording technology" - is that good or bad,
or is it what all HDDs these days use so is like advertising that a car
comes with four wheels? Does mention "Seagate PowerTrim technology",
which makes me think it is indeed a Seagate. (I presume they couldn't
claim that if it wasn't.) I can't _see_ "refurbished" anywhere in the
listing.

I've seen auctions where the seller was explicit that the item is opened

I've avoided auctions for this search - only gone for fixed-price
listings. I suppose there might be some genuine new HDDs on auctions,
but I'm not going to risk it!

because they tested it but claim the product is new. Why would they
need to be testing a product that is new from the manufacturer (and with
whom you have a warranty)? eBay says "Opened - never used" means "An
item in excellent, new condition with no wear." But, again, why does
the seller need to open a supposedly new product to claim they tested it
was in working condition? Smacks of a seller getting a return and then
claiming the condition is opened instead of refurbished.

Indeed. Since ebay have "New", "New opened", "seller refurbished",
"manufacturer refurbished", "used", and "for parts and not working" (and
maybe others I've forgotten), I've gone for "New" only - and even then,
carefully examined the listing details.
[]
Since the eBay ad to which you linked has English pounds listed for
pricing and is also at their co.uk regional site, and Item Location is
Isle of Man, the item would be an in-country shipment to you in the UK.
Shipping is £4.99. Unless I'm desparate for an item, I usually look for

It shows as free when I view it.

free shipping, even if the seller rolls it into the price. If you
return an item, you get refunded you entire purchase price, and that
would include any shipping cost rolled into "free shipping". You pay

I do the same, for the same reason.

the return shipping cost, but you don't get stuck with paying shipping
both ways. Alas, a search at ebay.co.uk on "sonnics 1tb" didn't show
any auctions there with free shipping. A search on just "sonnics" with

Ah, that must be what I said, ebay (whether .com, .co.uk, or other)
listings display differently depending where the viewer is. All (I
think) of the Sonnics listings (fixed price, not auctions) that _I_ see
show free shipping, to me.
[]
The requirement is to replace a 500G (I think) drive that seems to have
died: it's at my friends at the other end of the country, and they've
[]
I'm inclined to get a 1, 1.5, or 2T drive: am I right in thinking that
nobody is actually making 500G ones any more, so any such I find are
likely to be either old stock or refurbished?

One glaring omission in the ebay.co.uk ad that you found for the Sonnics
1TB SATA drive is the lack of stating which *version* of SATA. You
might assume SATA3 for 6Gbps speed but maybe they're selling a SATA2
3Gbps drive. It also has only a 16MB cache instead of the more common
64MB cache at that size or the 128MB cache size possible.

I doubt the machine (Dell, I think Optiplex 380) has SATA3 anyway, so
that's not important. I wasn't actually thinking of going for that
particular one anyway - the one I am considering _is_ 64MB cache. (Also
5400 rather than 7200 RPM, which I feel might last longer - IM limited
E, the 7200s run hotter.)
[]
smaller for a price you can afford. Is this a gift and you're paying
for the drive? Or is your friend going to recompense you?

He'll recompense me, but I'm not really bothered.

As I said, I have the feeling that going for a 500G drive now _would_
get a refurbished one (whatever the seller claims), or at the very best,
old stock, even if it is unused (and the big manufacturers tend to run
their guarantees from date of manufacture not sale, I think). Or am I
wrong and they still _are_ making 500G 3.5" drives?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Internal-.../i.html?_sop=1
5&LH_BIN=1&LH_FS=1&_from=R40&LH_ItemCondition=100 0&Brand=Seagate%7CWeste
rn%2520Digital&_nkw=500gb%20drive&LH_PrefLoc=1&_d cat=56083&rt=nc&Cache=1
6MB%7C32MB%7C64MB%7C128MB
or
http://tinyurl.com/yylwhkgq

I didn't research the eBay sellers. That's up to you.
The above gives (all for 3.5" 500G drives):
WD 7200 16MB 15.00
Seagate 5400 16MB 21.49
Seagate 7200 16MB 24.99
Seagate 7200 16MB 25.00
WD 7200 16MB 28.00
WD 7200 32MB 33.19 "Recertified"
Seagate 7200 16MB 37.29
Seagate 7200 16MB 38.63
WD 7200 16MB 38.99
Seagate 7200 16MB 40.00
Seagate 7200 32MB 42.67
Seagate 7200 32MB 44.48
WD 7200 32MB 45.20
WD 5400 64MB 45.20
Seagate 7200 16MB 45.48

All listed as "Brand new" (including the "Recertified" one!); over 2:1
price range for _same thing_ (3:1 otherwise). Confusing or what!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Abandon hope, all ye who ENTER here.

In article , J. P. Gilliver (John)
wrote:

What I'm after is a basic, 3.5", internal drive.

then why are you looking at externals, such as sonnics?

get a western digital or seagate, in whatever capacity you want.

nospam wrote:

J. P. Gilliver wrote:

What I'm after is a basic, 3.5", internal drive.

then why are you looking at externals, such as sonnics?

because they also sell re-branded internal drives, seagate with a
sonnics sticker by the looks of it.

In article , Andy Burns
wrote:

What I'm after is a basic, 3.5", internal drive.

then why are you looking at externals, such as sonnics?

because they also sell re-branded internal drives, seagate with a
sonnics sticker by the looks of it.

why would they do that, and more importantly, why would anyone buy such
a thing?

In message , Andy Burns
writes:
nospam wrote:

J. P. Gilliver wrote:

What I'm after is a basic, 3.5", internal drive.
then why are you looking at externals, such as sonnics?

because they also sell re-branded internal drives, seagate with a
sonnics sticker by the looks of it.

If they're only re_branded_, that's fine; it's re_furbished_ I want to
avoid.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Never. For me, there has to be a meaning. There's not much meaning in eating
bugs. - Darcey Bussell (on whether she'd appear on /I'm a Celebrity/), in RT
2015/11/28-12/4

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

If they're only re_branded_, that's fine; it's re_furbished_ I want to
avoid.

Amazon sell 2TB seagate drives, cheaper than sonnics and with double the
warranty, so as nospam asks, why would you?