Confirmed: Windows 10 Setup Now Prevents Local Account Creation

On 10/2/19 10:13 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 12:35:24 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake wrote:

Fortunately this one is, for the moment, easy to get around. Don't connect
to the internet during initial setup - without an internet connection the
default is to create a local account. Windows 10 works just fine as a
standalone operating system without a "cloud" login despite Microsoft's
protest to the contrary ("limited functionality").

As a separate, yet related datapoint, when I last installed a Windows 10
"S" laptop about a month ago, the following happened, as I recall:
a. Even though I explicitly disabled the wi-fi (there was no RJ45 port)
b. And where I switched the Windows 10 S to Windows 10 Home ASAP
c. Microsoft still insisted I connect to the Internet FIRST
d. BEFORE I could switch from S to Home (as I recall)
e. Where I was FORCED to create an account (obviously against my will)
f. Which, NOTE THIS, you can delete BUT it takes a MONTH to do so

Why does it take a month?
o I do not know.

Actually, I forget what account I created, so I can't even check.
o But bear in mind, as I recall, Microsoft insists on a MONTH DELAY.

Takeaway, if my memory serves me well:
a. For Win10 S to Win10 Home you MUST still create a MS account
b. Microsoft says they won't delete that account for a month
c. Who knows what they keep in their logs forever...
(or if they even do it ... maybe we should try reactivation later?)

Rationale for saying this on a Windows 10 Home thread is...
A. Let's keep an eye on the shenanigans that Microsoft is pulling on us.
B. And report back to the group whatever we find out by way of tricks.

Together, we know more than any one of us does individually.

Just to be a smarta$$ LOL... Maybe you should not have bought a
computer intended to compete with the Chromebook. :-)

From my perspective, you created your own problem.



--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Firefox 69.0.1
Thunderbird 60.9
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 12:05:47 -0400, Paul wrote:

The "\users\aj49284" problem, is why I suggest people start
with a Local account, and only later use an MSA (when it's too
late for the OS to mess up the folder name). I wonder if
Microsoft will ever get a clue ? How many years now have
they been working on this ?

Since most PCs I've set up are single-user installations
o And, since all default MS folders are incessantly polluted

What I have done - for years - is create four folders:
1. A data folder
2. An application folder
3. A temporary folder
4. An optional software-archive folder.

In addition, the two software folders follow the same hierarchy
o C:\app\{archivers,browsers,cleaners,databases,edit ors,finance,games,hardware,etc.}

Which, importantly, is the same MENU hierarchy as the pinned WinXP-style
cascade accordion style menu that a right-click Send to" populates...
o Start menu {archivers,browsers,cleaners,databases,editors,fin ance,games,hardware,etc.}

It's important to note that the default C:\Users hierarchy does contain a
few important folders, which I move into either the data or temp folders,
such as "Screenshots", "Downloads", "Music", etc., as needed by the user.

The beauty of this system is that it remains UNPOLLUTED!

In the past, I tried to keep the default Microsoft folders clean
o But too many programs pollute the default Microsoft folders.

The solution is simple:
o Never store anything you care about in any default Microsoft folder.

--
Notice you can disable Cortana since you won't ever need it.

On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 10:36:54 -0600, Ken Springer wrote:

Just to be a smarta$$ LOL... Maybe you should not have bought a
computer intended to compete with the Chromebook. :-)

From my perspective, you created your own problem.

The first point is that the following "appears" to be the case:
1. Windows 10 Home (apparently) now insists on creating an account
2. Windows 10 S insists on an account before conversion to Win10 Home
3. Windows 10 Pro apparently does not (yet) insist on creating an account

The second point is that there are usually ways to ameliorate this fact
o What we should do, together, is learn what those ways are.

The third point is that the account "may" not be fully deleted
o The takeaway is for us to combine our knowledge on that open question

Does anyone have more details on WHY it takes a month to delete?
o And, whether Microsoft permanently retains your account information?

On 2019-10-02 02:46, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
Confirmed: Windows 10 Setup Now Prevents Local Account Creation

No, it doesn't.

https://www.howtogeek.com/442609/confirmed-windows-10-setup-now-prevents-local-account-creation/

They're wrong. I am currently using a laptop formatted using the latest
version of Windows 10, directly from Microsoft, using the media creation
tool and the iso from
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...load/windows10

I was able to install using a local account. It wasn't difficult. It
was, however, annoying and unnecessary and I had to ignore instructions
from the installer to do it. Microsoft _definitely_ does NOT want people
to install local accounts. That is very clear.


During the first-time setup process¡Xeither after you install Windows 10
yourself or while setting up a new PC with Windows 10¡Xyou¡¦re now prompted
to ¡§Sign in with Microsoft¡¨ and there are no alternate options.

Yes, there are. You just have to be persistent and to pay attention to
the very small controls around the bottom of the installer screen.
Microsoft tries, hard, to make them non-obvious.


On Windows 10 Professional, there¡¦s reportedly a ¡§Domain Join Instead¡¨

Domain Join is more obvious than just create local.

option that will create a local user account. But that¡¦s only on Windows 10
Professional. Windows 10 Home doesn¡¦t have this option at all.

That would be because Home, like Home in all previous versions of
Windows from XP on up, doesn't do Active Directory and can't be joined
to a domain. You can still create a local user, though, it's just that
Microsoft goes to a lot of trouble to hide it.

On 2019-10-02 05:24, wasbit wrote:
"Arlen G. Holder" wrote in message
...
Confirmed: Windows 10 Setup Now Prevents Local Account Creation
https://www.howtogeek.com/442609/confirmed-windows-10-setup-now-prevents-local-account-creation/


During the first-time setup process¡Xeither after you install Windows 10
yourself or while setting up a new PC with Windows 10¡Xyou¡¦re now
prompted
to ¡§Sign in with Microsoft¡¨ and there are no alternate options.

On Windows 10 Professional, there¡¦s reportedly a ¡§Domain Join Instead¡¨
option that will create a local user account. But that¡¦s only on
Windows 10
Professional. Windows 10 Home doesn¡¦t have this option at all.

Although his article is dated 1st October 2019 he doesn't say when the
install took place.

Approx 10 days ago I wiped Windows 10 Pro from my VM (because of stuck
updates), downloaded the creation tool & installed the latest 1903.

I got the option to install as a local account, so that is what I did.
Can't remember the exact wording, something like 'Create Local Account'.
The option was at the bottom left of the 'Create Account' page.

The installer knows when it's in a VM and some things are a lot more
obvious in a VM than on bare metal.


I'm not on that machine at the moment but I'll see if I can grab some
screenshots later.

On 2019-10-02 10:52, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 10/2/19 7:35 AM, Roger Blake wrote:

[snip]

It would not surprise me if at some point having a Microsoft account
for Windows 10 becomes a requirement. (At least for the home edition.)

And likely associated with a credit card or bank account, so they can
take any money they decide to.


I have a Microsoft account; note the ' in my address. More
than one, actually. None of them are in use as login accounts for
Windows 10. None of them have a credit card or bank account linked at
this time; one (not this one) did have one of those pay-as-you-go Visa
cards linked to it, with exactly enough money to purchase one specific
item. Microsoft may/may not still have the card number recorded, but
it's useless as it doesn't have any money in it.

On 2019-10-02 11:09, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/2/19 8:52 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 10/2/19 7:35 AM, Roger Blake wrote:

[snip]

It would not surprise me if at some point having a Microsoft account
for Windows 10 becomes a requirement. (At least for the home edition.)

And likely associated with a credit card or bank account, so they can
take any money they decide to.

I suspect they will be free.Â* It would be hugely destructive for Lenovo
to now charge for the drivers to run a computer.


And this would stop the typical computer vendor... why?

On 2019-10-02 12:13, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 12:35:24 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake wrote:

Fortunately this one is, for the moment, easy to get around. Don't connect
to the internet during initial setup - without an internet connection the
default is to create a local account. Windows 10 works just fine as a
standalone operating system without a "cloud" login despite Microsoft's
protest to the contrary ("limited functionality").

As a separate, yet related datapoint, when I last installed a Windows 10
"S" laptop about a month ago,

Do not ever use Windows S. it's worse than a Chromebook.

the following happened, as I recall:
a. Even though I explicitly disabled the wi-fi (there was no RJ45 port)
b. And where I switched the Windows 10 S to Windows 10 Home ASAP
c. Microsoft still insisted I connect to the Internet FIRST
d. BEFORE I could switch from S to Home (as I recall)

Don't use S. All your problems are related to S.

e. Where I was FORCED to create an account (obviously against my will)
f. Which, NOTE THIS, you can delete BUT it takes a MONTH to do so

Why does it take a month?
o I do not know.

Actually, I forget what account I created, so I can't even check.
o But bear in mind, as I recall, Microsoft insists on a MONTH DELAY.

Takeaway, if my memory serves me well:
a. For Win10 S to Win10 Home you MUST still create a MS account
b. Microsoft says they won't delete that account for a month
c. Who knows what they keep in their logs forever...

So create an account of the kind
" and don't do anything with it
except change from S to Home.

(or if they even do it ... maybe we should try reactivation later?)

Rationale for saying this on a Windows 10 Home thread is...
A. Let's keep an eye on the shenanigans that Microsoft is pulling on us.
B. And report back to the group whatever we find out by way of tricks.

Together, we know more than any one of us does individually.


I expect Microsoft to try everything in order to get users to use
Microsoft accounts. I therefore take active measures against them.

On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 13:56:01 -0400, Panthera Tigris Altaica wrote:

That would be because Home, like Home in all previous versions of
Windows from XP on up, doesn't do Active Directory and can't be joined
to a domain. You can still create a local user, though, it's just that
Microsoft goes to a lot of trouble to hide it.

This is good information to share with the ng since we're all much more
knowledgeable together, as a team, than we are individually alone.

A datapoint is that Microsoft seems to be following on Apple's lead
o Where it's an absolute requirement to have an AppleID
o And, noteworthy, Apple also REQUIRES an advertiser ID.

Where the Apple ID is literally embedded into EVERY APP you download
o Even free apps!

Luckily, Google doesn't require ANY of that
o You do not ever need a Google ID on an Android phone
o Which means that insidious advertiser ID also does not exit
o Significantly, all your free apps are NOT tagged by your id

Since the latest release of the iOS diarrhea is likened to Windows
o (MacDailyNews) iOS 13 should not be Apple¢s 'Windows 10'
https://macdailynews.com/2019/10/01/ios-13-should-not-be-apples-windows-10/

In summary:
o Apple iOS diarrhea obviously mirrors that of the early Windows diarrhea
o Just as bad, Apple's lack of privacy is apparently copied, by Microsoft.
o Luckily, surprisingly so, Android has both privacy & stable OS releases.

In article , Arlen .g. Holder
wrote:

A datapoint is that Microsoft seems to be following on Apple's lead
o Where it's an absolute requirement to have an AppleID
o And, noteworthy, Apple also REQUIRES an advertiser ID.

both false.

Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/2/19 9:11 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 10/2/19 8:28 AM, Ken Springer wrote:

[snip]

Unfortunately, for the Lenovo ThinkPad, the W10 drivers are in the MS
Store, so an MS Account will likely be needed to get the drivers.

I didn't have a problem downloading drivers for mine (T480s) from
Lenovo, and I've never has a MS account.

This is a Lenovo T420, and from what I've learned so far, should have
come with discs to reinstall w7 Pro.Â* But the computer was given to the
owner without the discs.Â* The hard drive was failing, so I opted to
install W10, since W7 support is disappearing.

I'd originally planned on doing W7 as the owner is familiar with it, so
I asked in Lenovo's forums about obtaining a set of disks.Â* The disks
were not available from Lenovo.

A response in the forum is where i got the info about the drivers for
W10.Â* I have to get together with the computer owner to create an MS
account so she can provide the answers for the security questions, then
we'll see about the drivers.



Didn't need no stinkin' driver disks for my Lenovo L540 Thinkpad when I
installed Ubuntu 16.04 ;-)

OP: This is all part of the master plan for DAAS, where "your" hardware
is relegated to a dumb terminal and MS gets a permanent revenue stream
with both your subscription AND all your user telemetry data.

"All your base are belong to us"

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 14:28:58 -0400, nospam wrote:

A datapoint is that Microsoft seems to be following on Apple's lead
o Where it's an absolute requirement to have an AppleID
o And, noteworthy, Apple also REQUIRES an advertiser ID.

both false.

Hi nospam,

You apologists are always apologizing for the flaws in the iOS diarrhea.

How are you going to set up & use iOS sans an Apple ID, nospam?
(which, concomitantly, creates Apple's own advertiser ID)
And, how do you REMOVE your account from EVERY iOS app, nospam?

HINT:
Sans jailbreaking - you can't.
o There's a good reason it's termed the "iOS darrhea" nospam.

o iOS 13.0 was buggy; iOS 13.1 was buggy; iOS 13.1.1 was buggy... iOS 13.1.2
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/RVEYh6QgA1U

Where, it turns out, you can jailbreak almost ANY iOS device sold!
o Even those on the absolutely latest iOS release

o Checkm8 exploit due to Apple's lack of sufficient testing for MANY YEARS!
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/cwlXKVyQfT4

The fact is that Apple's lack of testing & privacy is evident to all adults
o It's just not what Apple Marketing fed you apologists to believe...

On 2019-10-02 14:24, Arlen .g. Holder wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2019 13:56:01 -0400, Panthera Tigris Altaica wrote:

That would be because Home, like Home in all previous versions of
Windows from XP on up, doesn't do Active Directory and can't be joined
to a domain. You can still create a local user, though, it's just that
Microsoft goes to a lot of trouble to hide it.

This is good information to share with the ng since we're all much more
knowledgeable together, as a team, than we are individually alone.

A datapoint is that Microsoft seems to be following on Apple's lead
o Where it's an absolute requirement to have an AppleID

No, it's not. The iPhone SE sitting next to this computer does not have,
and never did have, an AppleID. It works. Just not with iCloud or any of
the other things that Apple ties to it (Books, iTunes/Music/Movies/TV,
etc.) I don't need any of that on a work phone.

o And, noteworthy, Apple also REQUIRES an advertiser ID.

No, they don't. No such code is on any of my devices. In particular no
such code is on any of the apps we have set up for use on our own
devices and sideloaded without having to access the Apple Store. We know
that there is no such code as we built the apps ourselves. Nor are there
any such codes in any apps we download from the Apple Store to load onto
our company devices.


Where the Apple ID is literally embedded into EVERY APP you download
o Even free apps!

Doesn't affect those who never download anything from the Apple Store
because the device doesn't have an AppleID. We can and do use a
_company_ AppleID to get apps for use on company gear. If there is a
code embedded in the apps, then they have a problem as everyone will
have the same code. Which, as no such code is in any of the apps
available to the company devices, is even less of a problem.

On 2019-10-02 14:52, Arlen .g. Holder wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2019 14:28:58 -0400, nospam wrote:

A datapoint is that Microsoft seems to be following on Apple's lead
o Where it's an absolute requirement to have an AppleID
o And, noteworthy, Apple also REQUIRES an advertiser ID.

both false.

Hi nospam,

You apologists are always apologizing for the flaws in the iOS diarrhea.

How are you going to set up & use iOS sans an Apple ID, nospam?

I'm not nospam, but it's trivial. Merely don't enter the AppleID at
first startup.

(which, concomitantly, creates Apple's own advertiser ID)
And, how do you REMOVE your account from EVERY iOS app, nospam?

If you don't have an AppleID in the first place, then the alleged
advertiser ID also doesn't exist.


HINT:
Sans jailbreaking - you can't.

Yes, you can. Without jailbreaking. I have right in front of me an
iPhone SE which does not have an AppleID and never did. I'm sorry, but
reality trumps your paranoia.

o There's a good reason it's termed the "iOS darrhea" nospam.

o iOS 13.0 was buggy; iOS 13.1 was buggy; iOS 13.1.1 was buggy... iOS 13.1.2
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/RVEYh6QgA1U

Where, it turns out, you can jailbreak almost ANY iOS device sold!
o Even those on the absolutely latest iOS release

o Checkm8 exploit due to Apple's lack of sufficient testing for MANY YEARS!
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/cwlXKVyQfT4

The fact is that Apple's lack of testing & privacy is evident to all adults
o It's just not what Apple Marketing fed you apologists to believe...


Well, given your first premise, that an AppleID is required, is false,
all that flows from that premise is also false.

In article , Arlen .g. Holder
wrote:


A datapoint is that Microsoft seems to be following on Apple's lead
o Where it's an absolute requirement to have an AppleID
o And, noteworthy, Apple also REQUIRES an advertiser ID.

both false.


You apologists are always apologizing for the flaws in the iOS diarrhea.

the only diarrhea is your endless postings that demonstrate how little
you know about nearly everything.

How are you going to set up & use iOS sans an Apple ID, nospam?

this is about windows 10, not phones.

an apple id is *not* required to use a mac, nor is a microsoft account
needed for windows 10.

not using one does limit what can be done on either platform, but
that's the tradeoff one makes.

ios devices can also be used without an apple id as well as android
devices without a google id, however the limitations are greater than
with a mac or windows pc.

again, the user can decide if the tradeoff is worth it.