FIOS or win10 changes.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 13 Nov 2019 12:27:48 -0600, Rene
Lamontagne wrote:

On 2019-11-13 12:09 p.m., Chris wrote:
micky wrote:
I finally got FIOS today, and by coincidence, or not, there have been
several windows 10 changes just afterwards.

If you explained what FIOS was then it might be possible to ascertain
whether it has affected your issues or not. Probably not, given the
seemingly random and wide variety of issues.

Sorry. I coudln't remember the words "fiber optic", and I thought FIOS
was discussed here once with most people knowing what it was, but maybe
it was the home.repair ng.


I had to google it also, It is Verizons stupid abbreviation for Fiber
Optics System.
Posters who use obscure abbreviations should include the full name at
least once.

You're right.

Rene

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on 14 Nov 2019 14:16:16 GMT, Frank Slootweg
wrote:


And, AFAICT, it's actually 'Fios' (Verizon) or 'FiOS' (Frontier), not
'FIOS'.

I think FIOS Frontier is only use on the frontier. Wyoming, Montana,
the Yukon Territory, places like that. It's wood-fire-powered.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Fri, 15 Nov 2019 19:35:34 -0000 (UTC),
Chris wrote:

Ken Blake wrote:
On 11/15/2019 10:35 AM, Chris wrote:
On 15/11/2019 16:17, 123456789 wrote:
Paul wrote:

*** "Relax with our Stay Fast Guarantee...
**** below 100Mbps for Ultrafast Fibre Plus or 150Mbps
**** for Ultrafast Fibre Plus 2."

My ISP* also advertises using big fancy names like Gigablast. I wonder
how many people actually need it?

Almost none. Anything above ~25Mbps for downloads is superfluous IMO.
What people need is better uploads.


Maybe some people do, but most people upload very little.

You forget the millions on snapchat, WhatsApp, tiktok, FaceTime, Skype,
etc. Etc. Uploading content is huge.

The two main things people upload are e-mail and telephone
conversations. Most e-mail message are small enough that it hardly
matters, but as VoIP becomes more popular, upload speed will become more
important.

People email all sorts of crap. From documents, to photos and videos.

True, but with uploading, I just send it and forget it. Unless it's a
chat, I don't care how long it takes to get sent .

With some downloads, especially video, I'm sitting there waiting.


Asymmetric broadband makes little
sense nowadays.


I don't know why it's asymmetric. Can you or some else here shed some
light on it?

I've wondered about that too.

It's from the times that the Internet was mostly for consuming, not
generating, content. It made sense then when bandwidth was limited. Not
anymore.

Aha.

But does that mean they used smaller transistors in the upload part of
the circuit?

In article , Chris
wrote:

My ISP* also advertises using big fancy names like Gigablast. I wonder
how many people actually need it?

Almost none. Anything above ~25Mbps for downloads is superfluous IMO.
What people need is better uploads.


Maybe some people do, but most people upload very little.

You forget the millions on snapchat, WhatsApp, tiktok, FaceTime, Skype,
etc. Etc. Uploading content is huge.

those don't use much bandwidth, nowhere near what is used downstream.

The two main things people upload are e-mail and telephone
conversations. Most e-mail message are small enough that it hardly
matters, but as VoIP becomes more popular, upload speed will become more
important.

People email all sorts of crap. From documents, to photos and videos.

that doesn't use much upstream bandwidth either.

Asymmetric broadband makes little
sense nowadays.

I don't know why it's asymmetric. Can you or some else here shed some
light on it?

It's from the times that the Internet was mostly for consuming, not
generating, content. It made sense then when bandwidth was limited. Not
anymore.

no, it's because cable systems were designed for sending hundreds of tv
channels *to* customers, with upstream being the occasional pay per
view request or similar.

internet is still mostly consumption, with netflix and other video
streaming services using a substantial percentage of overall bandwidth.

the number of people who upload videos beyond a few second insta clip
are few and far between.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Fri, 15 Nov 2019 15:10:14 -0500, micky
wrote:


In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 13 Nov 2019 11:56:37 -0600, Rene
Lamontagne wrote:
......

Micky, When you are updated you should see in Winver,
Version 1909 (build 18363.476)

Rene

I have that now.

I had to install those things that were pending and restart, and then it
came up with more things to install and restart, and finally I'm there,
but so far, all of the same problems above are also still there.

I thought the problem might be Classic Shell, which gave a dire warning
when starting, so I uninstalled that but it didn't work any better.

Then I installed Open Shell, its successor (working from the source
code the original author left behind) and it doesn't work any better.


I have a spare computer and a copy of win7 and I'm seriously thinking of
going back to win7.

What would I lose if I did that.

Voice to text? I plan to use that a lot this month. I even bought a
fancy microphone. Can I install it separately? Or a competitor?

I found a couple voice to text programs that run on win7, but if they
don't work well enough, I'll just go back to the win10 computer when I
need to do this.

I really don't want to set up a 2nd computer just for this, but it
amazes me no one has been reporting the same problems I have.

Quite a coincidence that an hour after I get fibre optic cable, I get
all these problems. It's worse than before the FIOS.





Cortana? I never use that.

Anything else I will miss.

On 11/15/2019 12:35 PM, Chris wrote:

Ken Blake wrote:

I don't know why it's asymmetric. Can you or some else here shed some
light on it?

It's from the times that the Internet was mostly for consuming, not
generating, content. It made sense then when bandwidth was limited. Not
anymore.



Yes, of course That's obvious. But that doesn't help me understand why
ISPs provide two different speeds.


--
Ken

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Paul wrote:
Dan Purgert wrote:
Heh, I always thought it was just a product name, akin to "$provider
extreme internet", having not lived in a FiOS service area (we only have
Spectrum (nee TWC) and AT&T here).

FTTH is an industry acronym.

Yeah, I know that one, just never put effort into actually learning if
"FiOS" was a product or what (given the afore-mentioned "non-Verizon
territory" I live in).


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Ken Blake wrote:
On 11/15/2019 12:35 PM, Chris wrote:

Ken Blake wrote:

I don't know why it's asymmetric. Can you or some else here shed some
light on it?

It's from the times that the Internet was mostly for consuming, not
generating, content. It made sense then when bandwidth was limited. Not
anymore.

Yes, of course That's obvious. But that doesn't help me understand why
ISPs provide two different speeds.

Symmetric connections (e.g. 50/50) take more resources, and require more
dedicated spectrum in your already crowded lines (especially for cable
companies, when they had to carry analog TV).

Since "residential" customers will more heavily favor the "downstream"
path (i.e. to their household) rather than the "upstream", it made
economic sense to weight it toward what they preferred.

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Dan Purgert wrote:
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Hash: SHA256

Ken Blake wrote:
On 11/15/2019 12:35 PM, Chris wrote:

Ken Blake wrote:
I don't know why it's asymmetric. Can you or some else here shed some
light on it?
It's from the times that the Internet was mostly for consuming, not
generating, content. It made sense then when bandwidth was limited. Not
anymore.
Yes, of course That's obvious. But that doesn't help me understand why
ISPs provide two different speeds.

Symmetric connections (e.g. 50/50) take more resources, and require more
dedicated spectrum in your already crowded lines (especially for cable
companies, when they had to carry analog TV).

Since "residential" customers will more heavily favor the "downstream"
path (i.e. to their household) rather than the "upstream", it made
economic sense to weight it toward what they preferred.

I'm seeing articles, where some of the higher rate services,
as seen in Wikipedia, list the frequency range as "Upstream *and* downstream".
Implying that stuff like 300Mbit/sec service could actually be
partitioned differently for consumer accounts versus business
accounts. Whereas that probably wasn't the case for the original
DSL, which had defined upstream and downstream bands of buckets.

There was a symmetric version (SDSL), but nobody has ever heard of it,
and it doesn't particularly mesh nicely with the rest of the service
offerings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symmet...ubscriber_line

*******

Both dialup modems and DSL, use buckets, so your broadband
modem is little better than a dialup platform :-)

"VDSL2 permits the transmission of asymmetric and symmetric ===
aggregate data rates up to 300+ Mbit/s downstream and upstream
on twisted pairs using a bandwidth up to 35 MHz.

It deteriorates quickly from a theoretical maximum of 350 Mbit/s
at source to 100 Mbit/s at 500 m (550 yd) and
50 Mbit/s at 1,000 m (1,100 yd), but degrades at a much slower
rate from there, and outperforms VDSL.

Starting from 1,600 m (1 mi) its performance is equal to ADSL2+."

And that's why VDSL2 is used as the "last 500 feet" for fiber
concentrator access, as it suffers from the same issues as ADSL would.
And the 35MHz band it uses, must wipe out a lot of ham radio choices.
Original DSL used a much smaller frequency band.

The offerings on the Bell Canada site have changed since the last
time I looked, and the 150/150 entry looks "suspicious". Could
be fiber, but could also be VDSL2 with equal frequency bands
(even split). The fiber to the concentrator, could be relatively
close to symmetric (but might not be exactly equal as you might
have expected).

Translation: "We give people what they want"

Packages are based on demand. The current Bell Canada page has
more symmetric offerings than asymmetric, but that's because
a lot of asymmetric plans got zorched (the price differential
not being worth keeping track of). The ISP I use has more
asymmetric plans, using the same wires that Bell uses. It
could be that Bell is using this as a "tactic", because they
are forever plotting and scheming to overturn the CRTC. There
is one individual, that's his job title ("chief plotter and schemer").
"Regulatory trasher". And this is why there are private citizens
who keep an eye on Bell, and push the regulator to act (when
the regulator would rather "back-pedal"). Bell is currently
complaining that resellers are "getting too good of a deal",
and Bell hates when it can't gouge people. It wants the
wireline business to be as lucrative as the cellphone business.

Paul

micky wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 13 Nov 2019 11:56:37 -0600, Rene
Lamontagne wrote:

On 2019-11-13 11:22 a.m., micky wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 13 Nov 2019 03:38:30 -0500, Paul
wrote:

micky wrote:

I finally got FIOS today, and by coincidence, or not, there have been
several windows 10 changes just afterwards.


Another problem
10), probably related to 7) above is that when I right click on the
blank desktop, no menu comes up. Nothing happens.

I installed 1909 from a DVD (in a VM), then installed Open Shell,
and no problems noted.

Some of your issues sound a lot like "Tablet Mode".
And Tablet Mode auto-switches by default, but, the
software needs to see critical hardware items such as
a touchscreen.

Is this machine touchscreen enabled ?

There should be a setting to disable Tablet Mode,
and while Settings wheel is running, you can type
Tablet Mode into the search.

Paul

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Paul wrote:
Dan Purgert wrote:
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Hash: SHA256

Ken Blake wrote:
On 11/15/2019 12:35 PM, Chris wrote:

Ken Blake wrote:
I don't know why it's asymmetric. Can you or some else here shed some
light on it?
It's from the times that the Internet was mostly for consuming, not
generating, content. It made sense then when bandwidth was limited. Not
anymore.
Yes, of course That's obvious. But that doesn't help me understand why
ISPs provide two different speeds.

Symmetric connections (e.g. 50/50) take more resources, and require more
dedicated spectrum in your already crowded lines (especially for cable
companies, when they had to carry analog TV).

Since "residential" customers will more heavily favor the "downstream"
path (i.e. to their household) rather than the "upstream", it made
economic sense to weight it toward what they preferred.

I'm seeing articles, where some of the higher rate services,
as seen in Wikipedia, list the frequency range as "Upstream *and* downstream".
Implying that stuff like 300Mbit/sec service could actually be
partitioned differently for consumer accounts versus business
accounts. Whereas that probably wasn't the case for the original
DSL, which had defined upstream and downstream bands of buckets.

Yes, business accounts can be provisioned a lot closer to "symmetric" --
and since businesses (historically) were the creators of stuff, they
paid for the extra speed (as well as SLAs).

That being said, the "low end" business accounts (e.g. 50 mbit down, and
slower) tend to still by asymmetric; at least around here.


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In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 16 Nov 2019 07:20:08 -0500, Paul
wrote:

micky wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 13 Nov 2019 11:56:37 -0600, Rene
Lamontagne wrote:

On 2019-11-13 11:22 a.m., micky wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 13 Nov 2019 03:38:30 -0500, Paul
wrote:

micky wrote:

I finally got FIOS today, and by coincidence, or not, there have been
several windows 10 changes just afterwards.


Another problem
10), probably related to 7) above is that when I right click on the
blank desktop, no menu comes up. Nothing happens.

I installed 1909 from a DVD (in a VM), then installed Open Shell,
and no problems noted.

Some of your issues sound a lot like "Tablet Mode".
And Tablet Mode auto-switches by default, but, the
software needs to see critical hardware items such as
a touchscreen.

Is this machine touchscreen enabled ?

Well the machine might?? be, but I have no touchscreen.

There should be a setting to disable Tablet Mode,
and while Settings wheel is running, you can type
Tablet Mode into the search.

Paul

Okay, I did that and then I set it to Use Desktop Mode, instead of Use
the appropriate mode for my hardware. We'll see what happens on
restart.

BTW, I'm in safe mode now and, except for the notifications problem,
which I solved earlier, all the problems are still here. I'll go over
this point by point when I get back to regular mode.

Worth noting that Task Manager, which could not have screen size
adjusted in non-Safe mode (only had maximized and minimized) works in
Safe Mode, but the original Solitaire, sol.exe, still doesn't. It only
has maximized and minimized.

Also, Forte Agent 1.9 works fine in Safe Mode but Eudora 7, latest
version works only partially.

On 11/15/19 12:47 PM, Ken Blake wrote:

[snip]

Asymmetric broadband makes little
sense nowadays.

I don't know why it's asymmetric. Can you or some else here shed some
light on it?

Could it have something to do with cable being originally designed for
one-to-many communication?

--
39 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for
1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit
atrocities." [Voltaire]

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 16 Nov 2019 11:24:23 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 16 Nov 2019 07:20:08 -0500, Paul
wrote:

micky wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 13 Nov 2019 11:56:37 -0600, Rene
Lamontagne wrote:

On 2019-11-13 11:22 a.m., micky wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Wed, 13 Nov 2019 03:38:30 -0500, Paul
wrote:

micky wrote:

I finally got FIOS today, and by coincidence, or not, there have been
several windows 10 changes just afterwards.


Another problem
10), probably related to 7) above is that when I right click on the
blank desktop, no menu comes up. Nothing happens.

I installed 1909 from a DVD (in a VM), then installed Open Shell,
and no problems noted.

Some of your issues sound a lot like "Tablet Mode".
And Tablet Mode auto-switches by default, but, the
software needs to see critical hardware items such as
a touchscreen.

Is this machine touchscreen enabled ?

Well the machine might?? be, but I have no touchscreen.

There should be a setting to disable Tablet Mode,
and while Settings wheel is running, you can type
Tablet Mode into the search.

Paul

Okay, I did that and then I set it to Use Desktop Mode, instead of Use
the appropriate mode for my hardware. We'll see what happens on
restart.

BTW, I'm in safe mode now and, except for the notifications problem,
which I solved earlier, all the problems are still here. I'll go over
this point by point when I get back to regular mode.

YOU WERE RIGHT. THAT SOLVED IT! Thank you so much.

What would I have done without you. What do other people do who don't
know about Usenet? I googled many of the symptoms and found nothing.

And why is MS changing my mode a) for no good reason, b) without telling
me? If mode is subject to change, why isn't it displayed prominently
all the time? I guess it mistakenly thought it had tablet-style
hardware. That's bad too.

Everything works again. To set up the win7 computer, I'd have to clean
the pile of papers from next to the spare computer, remove and wipe its
hard drive, install 7, and reinstall or copy over everything. I wasn't
looking forward to that.

Worth noting that Task Manager, which could not have screen size
adjusted in non-Safe mode (only had maximized and minimized) works in
Safe Mode, but the original Solitaire, sol.exe, still doesn't. It only
has maximized and minimized.

Also, Forte Agent 1.9 works fine in Safe Mode but Eudora 7, latest
version works only partially.

In article , Mark Lloyd
wrote:

Asymmetric broadband makes little
sense nowadays.

I don't know why it's asymmetric. Can you or some else here shed some
light on it?

Could it have something to do with cable being originally designed for
one-to-many communication?

yes.